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    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    A Lambo in Germany also has that pimp image to some extent. 


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Yes....but it depends on the color, the driver and there is more forgiveness about it 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Lamborghini benefited a lot from the Audi takeover. Of course they are still extraordinary and extreme cars, but a Gallardo in a non-flashy colour has more credit than a red or yellow midengined Ferrari (and most of the V8-models still are in these colours, at least you get this impression in Germany).


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Lamborghini owners are perhaps more "practical" than Glossy Red "look at me" Ferrari owners...smiley

    Snow Camo Gallardo.jpg


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    GM asks over 136k EUR for the ZR1 over here in Germany, which in my opinion is way too much money.

    If they would charge under 100k, the ZR1 could sell pretty well but they are more expensive than Nissan with their GT-R, so they stand no chance over here. Sad, I like the ZR1 a lot.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Gnil:
    95jersey:
    Lars997:
    Great specs - even so as we stated many times before - you can't drive such a car in Germany unless you are a pimp! ;)

    So question for you, if driving this car makes you look like a pimp, wouldn't the same apply to a Ferrari or Lambo?  I assume you say that because of "over the top looks", like that of a Ferrari or Lambo.

    This goes way to to the late 70's and 80's . At that time corvettes were supposed to be sports cars but were no better then a Ford station wagon around the corners, with very outdated/basic technology .

    The shapes of the car had something very ' naive' for a sports car ( in the 80's ) and in most movies , you could see pimps driving them.  Over here ( as in switzerland it's the same )  the people who bought  Corvettes were wanna be shows off with not much taste , no auto-sport culture, and actually and very often ' dodge people ' .That's where it all started from.

    I think now Corvettes do not have this image anymore over here , at least not to that extent . They are taken more seriously , but you still often see people who drive them, putting chrome rims on them and just cursing around town.

    I must say that to me Corvettes are now an option, as the performance for the money is great . A good friend of mine , owner of several Ferraris , even co-owner of a 458 Cup , has just bought his 3rd Corvette as a track car. That's the car he is the fastest on the Ring with , and he is very fast .

    I was actually discussing the Viper not the Vette, not sure how we got off topic.  When the Viper came out in the mid 90's, it dominated the scene and won many world wide sports car races.    It even won Lemans a couple times.  Rough around the edges, absolutely, but that adds to it mystique and character of the car (any car).  REAL race cars with significant power are VERY difficult to drive.  Mark Donahue often talked of how exhausting and difficult his 1500hp Can-Am car was to drive.  In it's day it ran faster lap times than an F1 car.  This is what makes the Viper so cool, it is plain dangerous, takes greater skill to drive fast, and while grown up and succesful makes no excuse for it's blue collar parents.  It defines what American is (or at least was) about.  It is definately a "big car" for guys with a lots of attitude who simply want to "get the job done" with a sledgehammer if that is what it takes (maybe that is how the whole pimp thing started?).  Oh well.   

    For me, as classic as a Ferrari is with its attention to detail and precision, on the opposite end for different, but equal reasons, a Viper or Vette is just as intriguing for being brutal, powerful and gritty.   I guess I have never paid much attention to or have simply overlooked the general public consensus on automobiles.  As a long time sports car enthusiast, champion amatuer road racer, I NEVER considered the general public's opinion to be worth a penny when it comes to cars.  I certianly will not let my neighboor, wife, or friend's opinions EVER effect my decision when buying a sports car.  To me, thinking of a Viper or a Vette as a pimp car is just plain stupid and ignorant, I just don't get it.  Fast is fast...period!  As I drive my Z06 and everyone thinks I am douch bag, oh well, their loss.  I am not driving the car to impress anyone.  You simply have to feel the torque and power of a large cubic inch motor in a world class chassis to understand the pure delight. 

    Now again since the Vette was brought up, let's go back to the Vette, especially the early C4's that were described as a staton wagon.  The statement that Vette's cornered no better than a Ford station wagon, is just plain incorrect and wrong.  I found this article from a MAJOR automotive magazine publication on the then new 1984 C4 Z51 Corvette.

    "We were mightily impressed with the new Corvette's Z51 suspension and two numbers will show you why: 63.8 (as in mph through our slalom) and 0.896 (as in g around our skidpad). To put these in perspective, note that only three cars in recent memory have bettered this slalom speed on street tires, the Renault Turbo, Ferrari 512 BB and Lamborghini Countach. And the Corvette's skidpad sets a new street-tire record, beating the Countach's 0.869g by a significant margin.

    To amplify on these cold objective numbers, we can report that the Corvette's handling is a delight! Gone is the previous version's overshoot steering that caused you to uncrank some lock as the car took its set. You point this new Corvette and it goes. In fact, Corvette engineers showed us how they've gone to great lengths studying and quantifying the new car's yaw behavior; non-technically, what happens when you quickly twist the wheel. They offered graphs galore comparing it with other high performance cars.

    Now you'd be surprised, of course, if Chevrolet data showed its new car to be inferior; and, needless to note, this isn't the case. But what's interesting is how well the company's comparative testing correlates with our two quantifications of handling, slalom and skidpad. Based on measurements of transient response time, maximum lateral acceleration, yaw frequency response and other engineeringese, Corvette folks place their own new car as best, with a close grouping of Porsche 944, Ferrari 308 and Porsche 928 next, followed by the Datsun 280ZX. Our slalom and skidpad numbers are, respectively, Corvette 63.8/0.896, Porsche 944 60.9/0.818, Ferrari 308GTSi 60.6/0.810, Porsche 928 59.7/0.810 and Datsun 280ZX Turbo 58.6/0.754."

    So as you can see the C4 was GROUND BREAKING in its day and a world class sports car.  Was build quality not so good, absolutely, but then it was 1/2 the price or less of most of these cars.  I guess the point I am trying to make, is if you want to make fun of the Vette or Viper for its image, that is fine, but don't ever say it lacks in the area of performance.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Nobody said that the Viper lacks or lacked in performance but I'm afraid it has an even worse reputation over here in Europe than the Corvette. yes

    The latest german Sport Auto magazine reviewed the latest Corvette models (incl. C6 and ZR1 as far as I remember) and the performance is very good and at least at par with the international counterparts. No doubts here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:

    GM asks over 136k EUR for the ZR1 over here in Germany, which in my opinion is way too much money.

    If they would charge under 100k, the ZR1 could sell pretty well but they are more expensive than Nissan with their GT-R, so they stand no chance over here. Sad, I like the ZR1 a lot.

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars.  Boy if we taxed manufactuers like Nissan, Toyota, BMW, those companies would be in very bad shape (or maybe out of business) as a large portion of their sales are in the US, especially Ferrari.  Japan is one of the worst and outright claims they duty foreign cars to protect their own car industry.  At least other countries aren't so blatent about it.  If the US did this, GM, Ford and Chrysler would not have been in the economic situation. 

    I know you can get a ZR1 new for approx $110k US (even less) which is about 85k EUR without duties.  Even better a Z06 with the carbon package (ZR1 brakes/suspension) would only cost 55k EUR.  Recents test have the Z06 with Carbon Package outpacing a 458 Italia at Leguna Seca.  So imagine being able to buy a car that can outrun a 458 for only 55k EUR. 

    I think it is time for the US to play like the rest of the world and start putting duty on foreign products to protect its own industries.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    95jersey:
    RC:

    GM asks over 136k EUR for the ZR1 over here in Germany, which in my opinion is way too much money.

    If they would charge under 100k, the ZR1 could sell pretty well but they are more expensive than Nissan with their GT-R, so they stand no chance over here. Sad, I like the ZR1 a lot.

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars.  Boy if we taxed manufactuers like Nissan, Toyota, BMW, those companies would be in very bad shape (or maybe out of business) as a large portion of their sales are in the US, especially Ferrari.  Japan is one of the worst and outright claims they duty foreign cars to protect their own car industry.  At least other countries aren't so blatent about it.  If the US did this, GM, Ford and Chrysler would not have been in the economic situation. 

    I know you can get a ZR1 new for approx $110k US (even less) which is about 85k EUR without duties.  Even better a Z06 with the carbon package (ZR1 brakes/suspension) would only cost 55k EUR.  Recents test have the Z06 with Carbon Package outpacing a 458 Italia at Leguna Seca.  So imagine being able to buy a car that can outrun a 458 for only 55k EUR. 

    I think it is time for the US to play like the rest of the world and start putting duty on foreign products to protect its own industries.

    Britannica.com -- "Political goals often motivate the imposition or removal of tariffs. Tariffs may be further classified into three groups—transit duties, export duties, and import duties "

    95jersey - you have stepped in it now. You can't impose tarriffs because we all know they don't work and will lead to trade wars and kill our economy and the sky will come crashing down  (tarriffs would have hurt the japanese more in the past but would still kill most euro producers today).................. i hear corvettes sold in europe are made of rare earth elements, that's why they are so expensiveSmiley

    Tariffs only work for the rest of the world, not the US. Smiley


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    95jersey:
    RC:

    GM asks over 136k EUR for the ZR1 over here in Germany, which in my opinion is way too much money.

    If they would charge under 100k, the ZR1 could sell pretty well but they are more expensive than Nissan with their GT-R, so they stand no chance over here. Sad, I like the ZR1 a lot.

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars.  Boy if we taxed manufactuers like Nissan, Toyota, BMW, those companies would be in very bad shape (or maybe out of business) as a large portion of their sales are in the US, especially Ferrari.  Japan is one of the worst and outright claims they duty foreign cars to protect their own car industry.  At least other countries aren't so blatent about it.  If the US did this, GM, Ford and Chrysler would not have been in the economic situation. 

    I know you can get a ZR1 new for approx $110k US (even less) which is about 85k EUR without duties.  Even better a Z06 with the carbon package (ZR1 brakes/suspension) would only cost 55k EUR.  Recents test have the Z06 with Carbon Package outpacing a 458 Italia at Leguna Seca.  So imagine being able to buy a car that can outrun a 458 for only 55k EUR. 

    I think it is time for the US to play like the rest of the world and start putting duty on foreign products to protect its own industries.

    I was just asking myself: What the heck are you talking about? Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:
    95jersey:
    RC:

    GM asks over 136k EUR for the ZR1 over here in Germany, which in my opinion is way too much money.

    If they would charge under 100k, the ZR1 could sell pretty well but they are more expensive than Nissan with their GT-R, so they stand no chance over here. Sad, I like the ZR1 a lot.

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars.  Boy if we taxed manufactuers like Nissan, Toyota, BMW, those companies would be in very bad shape (or maybe out of business) as a large portion of their sales are in the US, especially Ferrari.  Japan is one of the worst and outright claims they duty foreign cars to protect their own car industry.  At least other countries aren't so blatent about it.  If the US did this, GM, Ford and Chrysler would not have been in the economic situation. 

    I know you can get a ZR1 new for approx $110k US (even less) which is about 85k EUR without duties.  Even better a Z06 with the carbon package (ZR1 brakes/suspension) would only cost 55k EUR.  Recents test have the Z06 with Carbon Package outpacing a 458 Italia at Leguna Seca.  So imagine being able to buy a car that can outrun a 458 for only 55k EUR. 

    I think it is time for the US to play like the rest of the world and start putting duty on foreign products to protect its own industries.

    I was just asking myself: What the heck are you talking about? Smiley Smiley

     

     

    I think he is talking about taxes, Duties, Fees all just another word for TARRIFFS. The USA is the best car market for manufacturers. That is an indisputable FACT. All cars can be had here for the cheapest price in the world. Also include in Tarriffs, CURRENCY MANIPULATION. All games to either protect homegrown manufacturers or just grab revenue, either way it is manipulative and distorts the market.  US vehicles are way over-priced in Europe and it is not the manufacturer doing it. Just some info I found this morning;

    From the Wall Street Journal 2011 about an additional 60% tarriff proposal

    The move is likely to make U.S.-made cars even more expensive in China, the world's largest auto market, where existing taxes and duties can add 25% or more to an imported vehicle's cost, depending on the model. ..........................................................................................Even before China's latest move, GM had begun shifting more production to China, particularly of its luxury Cadillac brand, in an effort to avoid steep tariffs, Chief Executive Dan Akerson said in a recent interview. "Duties to import almost double the cost," of vehicles in China, Mr. Akerson said. "It will be important to manufacture cars for China in China."

     

     

     

    From a UK business forum ----- "If the vehicle was exported new then UK duties need to be paid when re-imported. If the vehicle was taken out of the country when it was a used vehicle and no duties were reclaimed then its re-importation should not attract any import duties.For a definitive last word phone your friendly Customs and Excise -they can be surprisingly helpful."

    __________________

     

     

     

     

    intouch1:
    well, fasten your seat belts...

    here in egypt any cars above 2 litres are charged a 200% import duty. then on top of that they add 40% sales tax which makes the turbo a bargain at a cool 2.1 million pounds or 364,481.74 US$.......

     

     

    temm:
    Hold the frontpage!!
    This has to be wrong, according to Porsche Denmark the price in Denmark is 497 026USD

    Dr Phil, can you confirm or deny this?

     

    Porscha:
    Base price in BRAZIL of 997tt is 350 000 USD  the most EXPENCIVE PRICE, IN THE WORLD, belive me?

     

     

    jamesdamanuk1:
    over here in the uk its a 142.2146 EUR here thats 177.9927 USD 97.840,00 GBP thats for base prise Which isnt To bad compared to others like HK and Norway

     

     

    ESu:
    Hello!

    And greetings from Finland - the land of heavy taxation and thousand lakes. Base price is 219'900 euros (278'000 USD). And to tell you the truth - it's a relief to hear that we're not the only ones paying extreme prices on automobiles.

    Some 10 997TT's sold here - I hope goverment uses some of the money earned for highways...

    -ESu / Helsinki

     

     

    bluelines:
    Quote:
    amir sarmad said:
    why is denmark so high? do they have their own auto industry that they are trying to protect or do they really hate cars?
     


    Yes, environment friendly electrical cars with 3 wheels in combination with hating cars

     

     

     

    Spock:
    In Thailand, the based price 549,738 USD. I think we got winner. C2s is about 400K USD. BMW 330i is about 120,000 USD. Crazy Tax.

     

     

     

     

    I think you would have to be a PIMP to afford to pay for these tarriffs!Smiley


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Unfortunately the EU puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars

    I was talking about this...which is just not true. Maybe he watched too much Fox News... angry

    The prices of cars in the US are cheap, indeed but only because German car buyers actually subsidize lower US prices. This has been discussed for years in Germany and many over here are pretty mad about this but apparently German manufacturers need to keep their prices low(er) to be competitive. It will change though and it already started, Porsche is a very good example for that.

    Porsche Panamera Turbo S for example: 175k USD in the US, 169k EUR in Germany (incl. 19% VAT). Now take the base price of 137k EUR without VAT and multiply it with the current 1.30 USD/EUR exchange rate and you get...178k USD. Not much difference anymore with the US price.

    We also get huge rebates on cars over here, I got 30% on an almost brandnew C63 AMG Coupe PP with only 300km on the speedo and 11% on my brandnew Panamera Turbo S, despite the lease and the fact that I return a car to the lease company much earlier than expected.

    Nope, I don't think that the best car deals are available in the US...anymore. smiley

    As to US vehicles being overpriced in Europe: There is a reason for that and it is called technical adaptation. A US vehicle wouldn't last very long on the german Autobahn without the proper brakes, cooling system and tires. None of the imported EU market US vehicles are technically identical to their US counterparts, they are usually already including features like "performance package" or "brake package", simply because otherwise, they wouldn't stand a chance over here. You may drive in your car 200 mph for a second or two in the US, if you get the chance but I do that for consecutive 2-3 minutes, sometimes even longer. Can you see the difference?

    No, there are no additional taxes for US vehicles in Europe, this is bullocks. The higher prices are because of technical enhancements and...depending on the manufacturer...because of greed. Unfortunately US manufacturers don't seem to understand that their products would sell much better here if they weren't overpriced.

    Exception: The Camaro V8 for example. 40k EUR over here, quite attractive price tag for such a car but it still sells slow because the V8 eats fuel like crazy. Germans aren't used to pay 150 EUR for a fill-up in this price class.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:

    Unfortunately the EU puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars


    As to US vehicles being overpriced in Europe: There is a reason for that and it is called technical adaptation. A US vehicle wouldn't last very long on the german Autobahn without the proper brakes, cooling system and tires. None of the imported EU market US vehicles are technically identical to their US counterparts, they are usually already including features like "performance package" or "brake package", simply because otherwise, they wouldn't stand a chance over here. You may drive in your car 200 mph for a second or two in the US, if you get the chance but I do that for consecutive 2-3 minutes, sometimes even longer. Can you see the difference?

    No, there are no additional taxes for US vehicles in Europe, this is bullocks.

     

     

    Lets use some logic for a minute

     

    Are European or any other manufacturer selling cars at a loss per unit in the USA?   Answer NO

    Are there import duties/fees/tarriffs imposed by EU countries? Answer Yes  (just look at the rennteam members posting up the huge price differentials for the 911 that I listed)

    RC it is simply laughable that a Corvette ZR1 or Camaro LS1 or any other us car I can think of needs an upgrade from what is delivered in a US showroom. The ZR1 already has Carbon ceramic and dominates the NBR.Smiley A Ford 150 would never be used at 150mph on a highway unless you were a lunatic and it already has heavy duty components to handle the rugged roads and jobs it handles over here.

    Sorry this is just more euro snobbery along the lines of the Pimps buying them. How many pimps do you know? Give it a break would ya. a few of you have gotten very silly lately. Don'r forget your X5 was built by good ol boys right here.Smiley

     

     

    Please Post a thread the next time a german plants a flag on the moon.Smiley As soon as we get enough Tesla's on the road , could we ask the German Navy to send it's carriers to the gulf since we won't care anymore.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    pimpmobile.jpg

     

     

     

    US dollar base price ZR1 $111,000 X .774 = 86,000 X .19 german VAT =16,340  Grand Total 102,340 euro +1500 delivery

    Brand new 2012 ZR1 should be $104,000. euros VAT included delivered in Germany

    You say GM wants $136,000 euro's

     

    There is 32,000 euro or $41,376.00 difference in US vs German sales price for the same car. That is one hell of a radiator.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    1. Don't you pay local tax in the US? Plus gas guzzler tax for such a car? Just saying. yes

    2. GM offers 3 years warranty (or 100000 km) in Germany. If someone drives the car on the Autobahn only, this can put a lot of stress on the components, thus it can get pretty expensive for GM.

    3. GM logistics cost for the small number of Corvettes sold in Germany isn't cheap since the ordinary Opel/GM mechanic can't really deal with these high performance cars. Not even starting with repair services for the compound(some call it plastic) material used for the Corvette body.

    So let me see: 111600 plus 6% sales tax plus 4000 bucks (more or less) gas guzzler tax and we end up with a total of  122296 USD. Using the current aprox. exchange rate of 1.30 (or 1.2925 ), we end up at a price tag of aprox. 94k EUR. So GM is actually asking 42k EUR more for the ZR1 in Germany if I'm not mistaken.

    Maybe you should ask GM why they are asking that much but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with any special taxes or whatever crap imposed on US cars. Such a thing doesn't exist in Germany.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    US car prices are out of wack. They are kept artificially low to increase sales. They cannot be a standard for other markets to compare to.

    We Canadians can be a 1st hand witness to that. The shipping cost for cars destined for the American or Canadian market is basically the same, same boat takes them across the Atlantic or Pacific. Rail takes them the rest of the way.

    There is also absolutely no differences either, except for a km/h speedo vs a miles one.

    Do we have the same or at least SIMILAR pricing? Absolutely not.

    A Turbo S listed for  over 183k Canadian, which is trading at par with the US$. Same car listed for 160k in the US.

    A Turbo listed for $157k in Canada vs $137k in the US.

    Panamera Turbo S, $200k vs $175k.

    Corvette ZR1?  $111k in the US vs $128k.

     


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Calculation out of an consumer perspective:

    Check a base 911 -

    its 88.000 € in Germany including 19% VAT!
    its 66.000 € in California (base 82.000 $ +  8.25% VAT )

    Means - same German manufactured Porsche is 1/4er less expensive in 6000 miles further away California

    I will never ever understand this out of a consumer view (of course I can see the business mans perspective). 

    End of the story = they are all market prices. Companies will always take as much from the consumers as they can achieve. Finding that points is a constraints of market situation, power of the money, competition, brand placement, faith to brand, etc. etc.

     

     


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:

    2. . If someone drives the car on the Autobahn only, this can put a lot of stress on the components, thus it can get pretty expensive for GM.

    . call it plastic) material used for the Corvette body.

    we end up at a price tag of aprox. 94k EUR. So GM is actually asking 42k EUR more for the ZR1 in Germany if I'm not mistaken.

    Maybe you should ask GM why they are asking that much but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with any special taxes or whatever crap imposed on US cars. Such a thing doesn't exist in Germany.

     

    Anyone can put the same amount of stress on a car whether they reach 200mph on the autobahn or low triples on US highways. You can redline your car in any gear or track it, etc......... I personally redline my 928 all the time, I like the sound (ironically the 928 tends to overheat in slow traffic or left idling w/o aftermarket electric fans) I just checked for the only problem I am aware of that the autobahn might create -- due to sustained high G turns -- oil starvation -- well the corvette is covered for that

     

     

    It is clear that their is a $50,000.00 + dollar difference for the same ZR-1 from the US to Germany. I say it is some kind of German/EU import duty or "doing business here" tax. Because it makes no sense. There is no logic to just selling a few cars, the more you sell the better the german mechanics will get on these. US business practice is sell sell sell in large numbers, not boutique practices. ALSO I read where the Bowling Green factory that makes Corvettes was in danger of being closed and production moved because business was slow. So there is no sense, no logic to the idea that GM is behind this $50K price increase. I think you have to look at the German Social safety net costs for the reason for this difference.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Next time you guys have the urge to think that GM or the US in general can't make top level cars think of this 750hp N/A mid-engined V12 Cien. The car I wish they had built.

    Cadillac_Cien_Concept_3.jpg

    caddy post.jpg


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx : Brands adapt their prices to the local markets . There are no extra tax and in Switzerland we suffer a lot from increased prices compared to others . Again, there is NO EXTRA TAX .  ( VAT at 8 %  + normal import duties )

    I am in the clothing business and I get so mad at the brands that just because Switzerland had higher income, just puts the price tag 30 % higher then in neighboring France or Germany .  I have talked to these international ( many are US ) brands and the answer to why they do this is so simple : it's because they can. Pleople still buy the product .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:
     
    It is clear that their is a $50,000.00 + dollar difference for the same ZR-1 from the US to Germany. I say it is some kind of German/EU import duty or "doing business here" tax. Because it makes no sense. There is no logic to just selling a few cars, the more you sell the better the german mechanics will get on these. US business practice is sell sell sell in large numbers, not boutique practices. ALSO I read where the Bowling Green factory that makes Corvettes was in danger of being closed and production moved because business was slow. So there is no sense, no logic to the idea that GM is behind this $50K price increase. I think you have to look at the German Social safety net costs for the reason for this difference.

     

    Unfortunately that logic just doesn't fly. Canada pricing is also higher than the US and we CANNOT charge duties on Corvettes due to NAFTA, so the extra cost is just our subsidies to the US buyers. Had the US pricing matches the Canadian pricing, half the buyers will not be able to afford the Vette, and if the US pricing is raised to match German ones, no one will ever buy a Vette.

     

    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    re-read please

    racerx:

    From a UK business forum ----- "If the vehicle was exported new then UK duties need to be paid when re-imported. If the vehicle was taken out of the country when it was a used vehicle and no duties were reclaimed then its re-importation should not attract any import duties.

    intouch1:
    well, fasten your seat belts...

    here in egypt any cars above 2 litres are charged a 200% import duty. then on top of that they add 40% sales tax which makes the turbo a bargain at a cool 2.1 million pounds or 364,481.74 US$.......

     

     

    Whoopsy are you talking canadian money? please post a pic from a canadian chevy dealer with pricing info.

     

    Gnil - I can understand that with certain luxury items, that is the ferrari game, something that is in high demand and which people will outbid one another to get their hands on, but the corvette has the exact opposite problem - fighting this pimp image, so high pricing is retarded, goes against all buusiness logic.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Gnil:

    racerx : Brands adapt their prices to the local markets . There are no extra tax and in Switzerland we suffer a lot from increased prices compared to others . Again, there is NO EXTRA TAX .  ( VAT at 8 %  + normal import duties )

    I am in the clothing business and I get so mad at the brands that just because Switzerland had higher income, just puts the price tag 30 % higher then in neighboring France or Germany .  I have talked to these international ( many are US ) brands and the answer to why they do this is so simple : it's because they can. Pleople still buy the product .

    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Thats exactly the reason for the price differences vs US and that is why half of the Harley's here in Spain are bought in the US and privately imported... while paying the same taxes as the ones imported officially, they base price is artificially inflated in Europe dealership for exactly the same bike... the tariffs argument is nonsense. Same with Amercian cars...


    --


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Are there import duties and Tarriffs for goods going into the EU?   ANSWER = YES!

     

    famous case in the last few years --- the BANANA WAR ------The deal will see the EU gradually cut its import tariff on bananas from Latin America in eight stages, from Euro176 (US$241) a tonne at the outset to Euro114 (US$156) in 2017.

    Bananas from the ACP countries will on the other hand continue to enter the EU market duty free. Furthermore, the main ACP banana-producing countries are to receive help from the EU budget, up to Euro200 million (US$274.1 million) to help them adjust to stiffer competition from Latin America.

    The Geneva agreement is expected to bring benefits also to European consumers who should find cheaper bananas in stores thanks to greater competition between producers.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Now onto Cars going to Germany - Import Turnover Tax

    All industrial imports into Germany are subject to an "Import Turnover Tax" of 19%, which is charged on the duty-paid value of the import article plus the customs duty, which varies by item

    Input VAT (Vorsteuerabzug)

    Companies themselves also pay VAT when they purchase goods or services. The taxes collected and paid can be balanced out in the VAT return as input VAT (Vorsteuerabzug).

    Example: How Input VAT is Balanced

    A car dealer has sold ten vehicles in one month, each at a gross price of EUR 17,850 (net cost EUR 15,000). For each sale, the dealer receives EUR 2,850 in VAT from the customer. At the end of the month, the dealer therefore owes the tax authorities EUR 28,500.

    However, in the same period, the car dealer also bought ten cars from the car manufacturer. The net cost of each car was EUR 10,000. The car manufacturer added 19 percent VAT to this amount. The dealer therefore transferred EUR 119,000 (including EUR 19,000 in VAT ) to the manufacturer.

    Thus, the car dealer has received EUR 28,500 in VAT and paid out EUR 19,000 in VAT . These totals are communicated to the tax authority (Finanzamt), and only the difference of EUR 9,500 must be transferred by the car dealer to the tax authorities.

     

    Trade Within the European Single Market

    Trade within the EU is free from customs and other restrictions. However, goods traded between different EU member states are subject to so-called acquisition tax (Erwerbsteuer).

    Acquisition tax is payable by the recipient of the goods. If an EU company exports goods to a company located in another EU member state, the delivering company therefore neither has to pay customs or charge VAT . The company in the other EU member state receiving the goods has accordingly to pay acquisition tax.

    Acquisition tax rates correspond with the VAT tax rates of the country where the recipient of the goods is located. Companies can however reclaim acquisition tax like regular VAT .


    Trade with Non-EU Member States

    Goods imported from non-EU states are liable to import VAT called import turnover tax (Einfuhrumsatzsteuer). The import turnover tax rate equals the VAT rates of 19 percent or 7 percent and is paid to the customs authority.

    However, the import turnover tax on goods imported from non-EU states can be deducted as input tax (Vorsteuer). As a prerequisite, the company must have the necessary import documents with customs proof of payment (import declaration).

    Exports are exempt from VAT .

     

    A corvette is getting hit by more than 19% plus customs duty depending on how many layers there, meaning transactions, GM-USA to GM-Europe to German distrubutor to dealer to buyer very confusingSmiley bottom line line they pay more than a VAT but I do not know how much more NOR DO I CARE at this point.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    People's individual experiences with import duties and taxes in the EU;

    Commercial or new goods with a total value over €430 are subject to duty and tax. It's up to you to declare them on arrival. If you don't and have goods more than this value you will be fined in addition the taxes and duty.

    http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t26366.html

    If the value (or perceived value) of the contents of the incoming package is more than €45 then 7% import duty PLUS 19% VAT PLUS miscellaneous administrative costs are imposed. Depending on the goods and origin import duty may be higher. As Darkknight says, it's been covered many times before

    I am in the process of ordering some clothes online from Brazil. In my native Denmark, customs will try to catch any shipment above a certain amount, sent from outside the EU, for the purpose of imposing a 25% tax on it.

     

    http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t13291.html

    Import VAT is charged for any private package worth more than €45 and for any commecial package (sent by a company) worth more than €22.50. Additionally, you may incur duty charges (usally another 16%) for certain scheduled items.

    I'm not sure what the exact rate is, but when I first moved here three years ago my sister sent over a package worth $65. She marked it $100, and I got a bill in the mail from GLS for 33 EUR!

     

    No, if it was bought in the EU then there is no import duty, as long as the VAT was paid somewhere. The only exception that this may not apply is to motor vehicles. Some countries have or used to have a special luxury tax for motor vehicles, however Germany doesn't.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:

    re-read please

    Gnil - I can understand that with certain luxury items, that is the ferrari game, something that is in high demand and which people will outbid one another to get their hands on, but the corvette has the exact opposite problem - fighting this pimp image, so high pricing is retarded, goes against all buusiness logic.

    The clothing brands I deal with are in the same league as Corvette ..... they are main stream : Rip Curl, Hurley, Vans, Roxy  etc...... Nothing fancy at all.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Gnil:
     

    The clothing brands I deal with are in the same league as Corvette ..... they are main stream : Rip Curl, Hurley, Vans, Roxy  etc...... Nothing fancy at all.

     Surf's UP ......................... in SwitzerlandSmileySmiley


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:
    Gnil:
     

    The clothing brands I deal with are in the same league as Corvette ..... they are main stream : Rip Curl, Hurley, Vans, Roxy  etc...... Nothing fancy at all.

     Surf's UP ......................... in SwitzerlandSmileySmiley

    Clothing  is the same in LA, Zurich or Bangkok ...... just one big world !   with different prices Smiley

    You also have import duties.. but BMW , Porsche etc.. sell their cars cheaper in the US then in Europe . Again , they just adapt to the marked.

    Now,  yes, some countries , ( emerging , or not even emerging yet ) are putting crazy taxes to avaiod import . But not europe.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:

    Whoopsy are you talking canadian money? please post a pic from a canadian chevy dealer with pricing info.

     

    Yes Canadian money, which is trading at or around par with US$ for the last 2-3 years.

    Here is a pdf from the online configurator for a ZR1, just basic options, didn't even pick the fancy engine building experience or color stiching etc. Still comes out above $130k.

    summary-1.pdf


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    For cars going into Great Britain

     

    • What are the usual rates of import duty?

      OK, the bit you have all been waiting for…. So, if the car is not a European returning car, less than 30 years old and not of historical significance, e.g. a standard 2005 Mustang for example, you will be liable to 10% duty (or 22% if a pickup/commercial) and then 20% VAT on top


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Whoopsy:
    racerx:

    Whoopsy are you talking canadian money? please post a pic from a canadian chevy dealer with pricing info.

     

    Yes Canadian money, which is trading at or around par with US$ for the last 2-3 years.

    Here is a pdf from the online configurator for a ZR1, just basic options, didn't even pick the fancy engine building experience or color stiching etc. Still comes out above $130k.

    summary-1.pdf

    That's your answer Whoopsy $111K in the US and $119K in canada with canadian money. That's even. Canadians are NOT subsidizing anyone.In fact I think you are getting a dam good deal.

    just a few years ago it was way different --- http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/etc/CADpages.pdf


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    $119k Canadian is $119k US, $111k US is $111k Canadian, our money is at trading at par or just around par. In fact the average exchange rate for the last few months has been $1.05US equals $1CAD, your money is worth less than our money.

    So $111k US doesn't not equal $119k Canadian, using the average exchange rate for the last few months, $111k US only worth $105k Canadian, so ZR1 should have been cheaper in Canada than the US.


     
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