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    GT2 with PCM?

    Today I visited my dealer and he had a very interesting GT2 standing hidden in a corner. It was his new private car and guess what, it had a PCM II system installed. I couldn't believe my eyes. Also very nice: a chrome plated cage, looking great on a silver car.
    I couldn't take pictures because I wasn't allowed to (yet) but the car looked stunning with the black carbon fibre rear wing.
    As soon as I get some pictures, I post them here.
    Also interesting: his wife gets a 996 C4S Cab in Carrera GT silver and the same leather color as in the Carrera GT too. Just can't wait to take pictures of this baby too.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Wow, i am sooo looking forward to seeing these cars!!!!

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    me tooo!!!!!

    I love the new GT2 look!

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    RC,
    is that a 2004 GT2?

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    That's what I thought, You can get anything you want with money and relation Does it have the Bose sound system too?
    I'm sure that's possible as well.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    That's what I thought, You can get anything you want with money and relation



    clap clap clap!

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Today I visited my dealer and he had a very interesting GT2 standing hidden in a corner. It was his new private car and guess what, it had a PCM II system installed. I couldn't believe my eyes. Also very nice: a chrome plated cage, looking great on a silver car.
    Just can't wait to take pictures of this baby too.



    Not really so unbelievable, RC.
    PCM II and a couple of other "comfort" extras are being offered by Porsche for the GT2 in the price list for MY 04, without having to have the right relatives or "connections".

    It's just that this story never really got around because everyone was preoccupied last year with the Carrera GT, GT3 RS, Turbo Cab, etc., etc..

    When you say this car had a chrome plated roll cage, do you mean the "XLS" brushed steel roll bar?

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    I guess I answered your question with my above post, watt. The car would be MY 04 if it has PCM II.

    Sorry Fanch, Bose sound system has not been added to the list.

    You listen to the engine instead, even if is a TT, and not a high-revving screamer.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Yes, it is MY 2004 and you're also right about the brushed steel option. The owner just got it wrong and I should start reading the stuff I'm getting.
    I never thought that Porsche would add the PCM option to the GT2, very surprising for me.
    But the car looks awsome.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    .....and I should start reading the stuff I'm getting.




    I know what you mean! There's just so much of it these days..........

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    But the car looks awsome.



    I'm repeating myself, but again, I know what you mean. As I wrote above, the MY 04 changes to the GT2 got overlooked in the stampede up to the Frankfurt Motor Show last September.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Thanks Fritz and RC--

    here's the ?: My mechanic has looked at the parts book and see few part number changes to the 04 GT2.

    from what the factory says, i think the 04 gt2's handling will be substantially improved over 03/2, and perhaps handle as well as an 04 GT3. [my GT3 handles bumpy corner sequences MUCH faster than my 02 gt2's]. do you think so?

    my mech thinks we can upgrade [shocks, springs] a new 03 for maybe 5-8K US. i can buy a new 03 for 145K us... so thats alot cheaper than an 04. can i get equivalent handling that way?? or do i have to eat an 04 at retail?????

    thanks guys

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    ....my GT3 handles bumpy corner sequences MUCH faster than my 02 gt2's....

    ......do i have to eat an 04 at retail?????





    Hi Watt,

    Reading your posts, I think your experience of REALLY driving Porsche's is vastly greater than mine, so I'm reluctant to give my 2 cents' worth.

    However, here goes!

    I've driven the old and the new GT3, and the old and new GT2, but never back-to-back, and - because they were not my personal property and they therefore deserved due respect - I have never REALLY driven them!

    However, ...... I wonder whether when you formed the above impression you were not a little misled by the more subdued aural impression of the low speed, high grunt turbocharged engine of the GT2, as compared with the more frenetic high revving naturally aspirated engine of the GT3?

    GT2's lap times on the circuit are shorter than GT3's, but you wouldn't expect it to make up that much time on the straights if it was really slower in the twisties.

    Again, judging by your posts, I really cannot help wondering whether - if you rebuilt a MY 03 to 04 spec - you wouldn't end up always asking yourself "What if I'd bought a new factory spec 04?"

    I doubt you'd notice enough difference after changing springs / dampers to justify the expense. However, a change to the latest spec Michelins or Pirellis might be worthwhile.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    thanks fritz,

    you make a good point, but tracks -- even Nring are smoooth relative to the bumpy roads in Malibu. i am comparing daily, the behaviour of the gt3 to the gt2 on the same roads as i drive to work. i drove 2 gt2's 15,000 miles, and this gt3 4000 right after [now].

    Hume Road, Malibu

    the 02 gt2 pitches so badly, one must slow way down in a gt2, for the same section i can scream thru when driving a gt3. this is a handling problem most do not experience: e.g.: 2 gear 45 mph in a gt3 vs 30 mph in a gt2... same twisty high on and off camber corner/bump set.... but i have it every day....

    it does not change you conclusion to go for an 04 gt2!!!!

    did i understand you correctly???? pls correct me if not

    and fritz, you say youdrove the new gt2, you mean 2004??? could you feel a handling improvment??? that is the crux of what i need to know. thanks

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    i am comparing daily, the behaviour of the gt3 to the gt2 on the same roads as i drive to work.

    the 02 gt2 pitches so badly, one must slow way down ...fo the same section i can scream thru when driving a gt3. this is a handling problem most do not experience: e.g.: 2 gear 45 mph in a gt3 vs 30 mph in a gt2... same twisty high on and off camber corner/bump set.... but i have it every day....

    it does not change you conclusion to go for an 04 gt2!!!!

    did i understand you correctly???? pls correct me if not

    and fritz, you say youdrove the new gt2, you mean 2004??? could you feel a handling improvment??? that is the crux of what i need to know. thanks



    Well, I'm now even more reluctant to post my 2 cents' worth!

    To answer your points, even if out of sequence:

    1) I have driven 04 and earlier GT2's, but as I said earlier, not back-to-back on the same roads. Therefore I can't claim to be able to make a valid objective comparison. (I'll leave the uninformed, unfounded, highly biased opinions to others. There are plenty of people out there ready to make such contributions! (Don't mean you, Bilal. We're talking about real sportscars here, not AMG MB slushmobiles!) Here we go again!
    2) You describe a handling difference (GT2/GT3) under very specific conditions on your daily commute route. Any comparison based on driving on different road conditions could be misleading, and would therefore be a disservice to you.

    3) I would not presume to arrive at a conclusion for you. Your money, your decision.

    4) I was surprised to to read you saw such a BIG difference between GT3/GT2 (45 mph/30 mph), because the suspension setups are so similar. Biggest difference should be the additional 100 lb on rear axle of GT2! Can't help wondering if the pitching you complain of on GT2 is caused by the fact that power unit mountings have not been stiffened up enough to stop it from leading a life of its own on the wrong road surface? (GT2 and GT3 mounts are stiffer than on other 911's) Would this fit in with your observations?

    The only reliable answer to your question would be to get a 04 GT2 to drive your stretch of road. Any offers from Malibu?

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    thanks fritz,

    appreciate your unwillingness to purely speculate -- we do have plenty of that on the internet.

    both my gt2's pitched similarly, i think it's how bad the road is. we'll test it with my friend and neighbour Hamann's new 02 he just got. and i succeeded in getting the gt3 way out of shape on that road this morning....

    the only 04's in USA i'm aware of are still sitting a dealers waiting for their anxiety to grow so they will accept my ridiculously low offer.... [les ordered one, but he's from las vegas!!!!]

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    both my gt2's pitched similarly, i think it's how bad the road is.

    the only 04's in USA i'm aware of are still sitting a dealers waiting for their anxiety to grow so they will accept my ridiculously low offer....

    [les ordered one, but he's from las vegas!!!!]



    Well watt, if the road is bad, it should be equally bad for a GT2 or GT3! If you do come up with any ideas as to why the GT2 is less good, do post them. I'd be interested to hear.
    On the other hand, if you got your GT3 way out of shape this morning, maybe 45 mph was just too fast for any car.
    Maybe your earlier GT2 was trying to tell you that.

    (No, I am not into inanimate objects having souls or an intellect, but do think a good sports car should provide lots of feedback. Are you listening, Bilal? ).

    If one of the dealers does accept your offer, make sure he has the carbon exterior package (no-extra-cost option ). As RC said, it looks cool .

    You say Les is from Las Vegas? I didn't think anyone was FROM Las Vegas. I thought everyone just stopped by long enough to drop a few bucks at the casinos before moving on again.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Les,

    are you going to stand for that?????? tell him you know who henrik ibsen is!!!!!! les is a great guy and a very good friend -- and a budding literature aficianado. this year he's reading Raymond Radiguet.

    we should move on, but my current hypothesis is the improved suspension settings, springs and shocks. the team leader for gt3 was quoted as saying they learned alot that would be applied to 04 gt2... adios

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    Raymond Radiguet


    Wasn't he the guy who put Madame de Beaumont to sleep when Cocteau read the manuscript to her that night at Jean Hugo's after the first war?

    And now he turns up on Rennteam! Small world.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    Les,

    are you going to stand for that?????? tell him you know who henrik ibsen is!!!!!!

    we should move on, but my current hypothesis is the improved suspension settings, springs and shocks.



    Hi watt, hi Les,

    Henrik Ibsen, eh? Isn't that the guy who used to have his tuning done by Edvard Grieg? Haven't read any posts from them on rennteam.com for a while.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    thanks fritz,

    appreciate your unwillingness to purely speculate -- we do have plenty of that on the internet.

    both my gt2's pitched similarly, i think it's how bad the road is. we'll test it with my friend and neighbour Hamann's new 02 he just got. and i succeeded in getting the gt3 way out of shape on that road this morning....

    watt: Since I've never driven a GT2 and I'm still wating on my GT3 I have to speculate. In this case I'll quote the Excellence article on the '04 GT3 intro: "The H&R made springs have been stiffened by 20 percent and matched low-friction Bilstein dampers offer less initial resistance to improve the ride quality on short, sharp bumps - especially at low speeds." Ignoring that last part about low speeds, especially in your case , the softer compression setting would make a difference on the bumpy roads you mention unsettling the GT2. If the same shock change carries over to the '04 GT2 I do not know.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    well, my thanks to all our well read respondents.

    in my inimitable style, i have bought another GT2, an 03.
    we will test and report trying
    - lighter wheels like fikse 10 or bbs mag
    - 04 shock if part number different
    - 04 spring - if part number different

    and Have Edvard Grieg himself pronounce it tuned....

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    thanks fritz,

    appreciate your unwillingness to purely speculate -- we do have plenty of that on the internet.

    both my gt2's pitched similarly, i think it's how bad the road is.



    Hi Watt --- here's some more speculation (mine).

    Two words: Bump Stops

    Here's a quote from a Panorama story on suspension differences.

    "We were very surprised how quickly the bumpstops come into play especially on the RoW sport front suspension where static loaded position to bumpstop contact is only 6mm as shown Table 6. This compares to 18mm for the USA suspensions and probably accounts for a lot of the perceived stiffer ride vs. the USA sport configuration. "

    If the road is bumpy enough to exercise the bump stops, then maybe the resting-suspension bump stop clearance is a bit different between the different cars. The roll stiffness for the instant the bump stops are engaged is wildly higher than when not. Causes the car to push or be loose depending on which end of the car bottoms to the stops first.

    Whadda ya think?

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    in my inimitable style, i have bought another GT2, an 03.
    and Have Edvard Grieg himself pronounce it tuned....



    Like your style, watt!

    If RC was able to come up with a lot more server capacity, we could make a full length vid of "Song of Norway" available for downloading, just to make Edvard Grieg feel more at home on rennteam.com.
    (If you missed that movie, don't worry about it!).

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Hi Watt --- here's some more speculation (mine).

    Two words: Bump Stops

    Here's a quote from a Panorama story on suspension differences.

    "We were very surprised how quickly the bumpstops come into play especially on the RoW sport front suspension where static loaded position to bumpstop contact is only 6mm as shown Table 6. This compares to 18mm for the USA suspensions and probably accounts for a lot of the perceived stiffer ride vs. the USA sport configuration. "

    If the road is bumpy enough to exercise the bump stops, then maybe the resting-suspension bump stop clearance is a bit different between the different cars. The roll stiffness for the instant the bump stops are engaged is wildly higher than when not. Causes the car to push or be loose depending on which end of the car bottoms to the stops first.

    Whadda ya think?



    Hi MIke,
    Ah'm not watt, but here's my 2 cents' worth anyway.

    Panorama threw you by putting the text you quoted next to a photo of a GT2.

    GT2 and GT3 have same ride height in USA and Euroland, unlike other P-sportscars, so the bump-stops should not cut in earlier on USA cars than Euro cars (GT2/3), and disregarding additional weight at rear of GT2, the two GT? cars should be similar to each other in this regard.

    I think watt needs to do some R & D work on this one.

    Whaddya think?

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    I think watt needs to do some R & D work on this one.

    Whaddya think?

    fritz



    I think Watt should measure the free suspension distance to the bump stops front and rear with the car on a drive-on lift.

    Data is good!

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    watt said:
    in my inimitable style, i have bought another GT2, an 03.
    we will test and report trying
    - lighter wheels like fikse 10 or bbs mag
    - 04 shock if part number different
    - 04 spring - if part number different




    Watt's up, What? Haven't heard from you for a while!
    You making progress with the 03 to 04 build?

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:


    fritz



    I think Watt should measure the free suspension distance to the bump stops front and rear with the car on a drive-on lift.

    Data is good!



    Mike,

    I think my post may have been too stenographic, so my intended meaning suffered in transit.

    I don't doubt the data is good, as far as it goes. In fact, the guys who wrote that article seem to have put more effort into it than some mass-production manufacturers put into the chassis tuning of their products!

    My point was, the data applies to the "standard" Porsche street version suspensions and the mix'n'match derivatives thereof. The GT2 and GT3 have completely different dampers, springs, rollbars, though they do use the same pick-up points on the body. The measurements the "research team" arrived at would therefore not (necessarily) apply to GT-model suspensions.

    Interestingly, Porsche refers to bump-stops as "supplementary springs" in original German-language spare parts listings, which puts a different light on their perceived function. In other words, instead of thinking in terms of the suspension hitting a "stop" after a stroke of 6.5 mm (measured at the spring axis of course, not the actal road wheel travel) it should be thought in terms of transitting from a linear spring rate mode to a progressive mode, as the "bump stop" becomes compressed.

    fritz

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    In other words, instead of thinking in terms of the suspension hitting a "stop" after a stroke of 6.5 mm (measured at the spring axis of course, not the actal road wheel travel) it should be thought in terms of transitting from a linear spring rate mode to a progressive mode, as the "bump stop" becomes compressed.

    fritz



    OK, Fritz, I believe that. But, I'll bet that the "supplementary springs" have a spring rate at least 5 times higher than the regular springs -- making a distinctly non-linear transition, once in play.

    Re: GT2 with PCM?

    zeee carrrrrrrr arrrrrrrrrrives next week. i am looking at lighter wheels. un compadre is lending me a set of fikse profils to see if i can feel the difference. my mechanic is trying to grab the 04 brain download, and the shox and springs.

    i'm starting to look forward to that car.

     
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