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    Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Well, the scene is set. 11 days to go till 1st Practice on Friday 31 October in Sao Paulo. Hamilton leads Massa by 7 points and only one of those 2 drivers can win the Driver's World Championship (unless they are both disqualified from the championship).

    There are many permutations for how Hamilton can win his maiden World Championship to become the youngest ever F1 champion. Hamilton needs to finish at least 5th in the race to be sure of winning the title no matter what happens with Massa i.e. even if Massa finishes the race in first place, it will make no difference. As long as Massa doesn't catch up those 7 points, the title will belong to Hamilton.

    Massa on the other hand needs to overhaul the 7 point lead that Hamilton has. Massa needs to finish in either first place with Hamilton no higher than 7th or Massa needs to finish in at least second place in the race with Hamilton no higher than 9th.

    Mathematically, it looks unlikely that Massa can win but F1 is notoriously unpredictable - it's not over till it's over Kimi came from far back last season to win his maiden Driver's World Championship so anything is possible.

    It's been a titanic battle between Ferrari and McLaren with BMW solidly in third place and Renault improving during the latter part of the season with 2 fantastic wins by Alonso.

    As a patriotic Brit, it would give me great pleasure to see a fellow Brit take the title. Is it the right outcome? Yes - since Lewis has driven one of the 2 best cars in such a consistent way. But is Lewis the best driver? IMHO, no. I equally find it strange that Massa should win. I don't rate him as the best driver in F1. Kimi has made far too many mistakes this season sometimes driving like he is not 'switched on'.

    Although I dislike his personality, IMHO there is no doubt in my mind that the best (and most complete all-round) driver of this present generation of drivers is Alonso. It's a pity for the sport that such an enormous talent is wasting his career in a second-tier team like Renault. It looks like Alonso will remain at Renault next season too. The only good news for him is that it looks like Renault will be much more competitive next year.

    Is it 'justice' that the best driver will not be winning? IMHO, no. BUT plenty of people who really deserved the title haven't won it. Plenty of people who won it were not the best driver of their generation. They just happened to have a completely dominant car.

    Just some random thoughts in the period leading up to the final race of this enthralling 2008 F1 season. Hope you have all enjoyed it as much as I have. Looking forward to an exciting race in Sao Paulo

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    +1....:!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    I would like to see Hamilton finishing 1rst in Brazil, and therefore getting the title !!!!....simple as that !.

    I've seen a lot of errors from Kimi and Massa, may be bad luck, or not....but at the end of the day, they have not reached their objectives at all...specially Kimi....with a car at the same level as Mclaren (and in some tracks even better), this should be forbidden to both of the ferrari drivers.

    As a spanish, and as an Alonso fan to death !!!!, I would seriously want to see hamilton with this season's title....He has performed excellent races, with not a single error, 10/10 concentration, and has been overall very consistent towards its results....so I look forward for Brazil, with him finishing in first place!

    Would like Ferrari, on the other hand, to focus in asking wtf is going on with their two pilots, specially with kimi....what in this earth can motivate him, apart of the multimillion figuere he has at the end of each year.

    Really, Alonso needs to move to Ferrari, get into's Kimi seat, and Santander pay the big bill for Kimi's very poor results....

    I have read from some rennteamers, that Kimi is the best in the trackand has the best personality when talking in public, and or talking about other pilots......WTF???????......

    I can guarantee that once Alonso goes to Ferrari, a new M.Schumacher era will return.....

    Also Kovalainen isnt performing a great season, in fact, if Alonso does good in Brazil, he will finish in the drivers championship better than Kovalainen with a Mclaren....(although we should see if Kovalainen's car is even the same car as Hamilton )

    If I was Kimi, I would start thinking what day of this year, should make public my retirement

    Anyway, realistically speaken, I see Alonso another year in Renault, lets hope if they improve as much as this last races.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    , with not a single error, 10/10 concentration,



    Errr... whilst I want Hamilton to win as much as anyone not too sure I can concur with this

    Although we've had some really good drives this year it does seem to be coming round to who, and which team, made the least errors this year.. but we've a great pack of drivers at the moment.... which has mixed it up a lot.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    I would like to see Rosberg in a McLaren

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    I can guarantee that once Alonso goes to Ferrari, a new M.Schumacher era will return.....



    I don't think so. Last year and this year Mclaren have had the best car, and Alonso had a blast in it last year.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    I would like to see Hamilton finishing 1rst in Brazil, and therefore getting the title !!!!....simple as that !.

    I've seen a lot of errors from Kimi and Massa, may be bad luck, or not....but at the end of the day, they have not reached their objectives at all...specially Kimi....with a car at the same level as Mclaren (and in some tracks even better), this should be forbidden to both of the ferrari drivers.

    As a spanish, and as an Alonso fan to death !!!!, I would seriously want to see hamilton with this season's title....He has performed excellent races, with not a single error, 10/10 concentration, and has been overall very consistent towards its results....so I look forward for Brazil, with him finishing in first place!

    Would like Ferrari, on the other hand, to focus in asking wtf is going on with their two pilots, specially with kimi....what in this earth can motivate him, apart of the multimillion figuere he has at the end of each year.

    Really, Alonso needs to move to Ferrari, get into's Kimi seat, and Santander pay the big bill for Kimi's very poor results....

    I have read from some rennteamers, that Kimi is the best in the trackand has the best personality when talking in public, and or talking about other pilots......WTF???????......

    I can guarantee that once Alonso goes to Ferrari, a new M.Schumacher era will return.....

    Also Kovalainen isnt performing a great season, in fact, if Alonso does good in Brazil, he will finish in the drivers championship better than Kovalainen with a Mclaren....(although we should see if Kovalainen's car is even the same car as Hamilton )

    If I was Kimi, I would start thinking what day of this year, should make public my retirement

    Anyway, realistically speaken, I see Alonso another year in Renault, lets hope if they improve as much as this last races.





    Was it a Rioja when writing these lines....? And how many bottles...

    10/10 for Hamilton....? You cannot be serious. There had been mistakes from Massa as well as from Raikkonen in 2008, stupid, avoidable...but racing errors, which can happen.

    But what Hamilton delivers is without words. I don't mean his driving mistakes in sense of leaving the track or overdoing his tires. I mean things as happened in Bahrain, Canada, Spa and Fuji. These are not mistakes....pure brainless action. Faults without a need. Beside his dumbness...his appearance is arrogant.

    Without a word he is a great driver. Definitely he is not the choosen one, or on a level with MS, Ayrton or similar icons. He is more a Mansell type of driver. Great races, followed by great insanity.

    Likely he will win this years WC...which he deserved. But it was not definitly not a convincing season by him in such a car.

    Alonso is still great... he will find his luck and opportunity for a third title. Likely not in a Ferrari.

    If tires are hot and understeer is down....Kimi is happy in his Cavallino Rampante and will go for a second title.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Hamilton said it and I will surely back him...Kimi is no risk taker ! he brakes to soon on approaching corners. To me he hasn't got the balls for this sport hence the reason he wanted to pack it in after this season. Kimi is no Hakkinen, Mika had the balls, MS and also too and if I may say Lewis is very close to these great drivers.
    In the case of Massa, I believe he is not intelligent enough to make the right decisions in a race, always waiting for the team to call the shots

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    @Italo: Hi there - with all due respect, IMHO I think it's still much, much too early to say things like Lewis is "very close to these great drivers".

    LH is on the cusp of winning his 1st WDC, something which, going into the last couple of races last year, was 'his to lose' in his rookie season. BUT he crumbled under pressure making mistakes that left us open-mouthed in disbelief.

    This year, I think he has matured somewhat so that he can handle the pressure a fair bit better so I am not expecting him to fluff his chances this time round. Don't get me wrong - he richly deserves where he is right now since he has performed well this season. I think his error-free performance in Shanghai showed that he has learnt to get the job done - it doesn't have to be a 'flashy' win - sometimes just collecting the points is all that matters. He would become a laughing-stock if he were to lose the title race this season as well from where he is placed right now. And I don't think he could bear it. But, like I said, I think it's unlikely he will fail again.

    Anyhow, I think there is a danger of confusing two distinct things here. First, there is his 'potential' and second, there is his 'greatness'.

    Potential: LH has huge potential. Of that, I have no doubt. But he still has a lot to learn. Not so much about the technical side of things or the driving itself. He has learnt those over the past 2 years in F1 and the many years it took him to reach where he is today. No, I mean he has to grow as a person. He has to mature as an adult, toughen up as a professional... He needs to be more self-controlled so that he irons out all careless mistakes. He needs to be thinking more tactically about what risks to take, which risks to spurn. He drives with his intuition at the moment. IMHO he needs to drive with his head too.

    In recent times, the driver who epitomised this the most was Alonso when he beat Michael Schumacher to the title in 2006. He simply didn't put a foot wrong. That is what personnifies a 'consummate professional' who is completely in control of his game. Alonso soaked up the pressure that year and was unflappable, single-minded, undistracted.

    Since then, we have seen a more erratic Alonso in 2007 and 2008 since (1) he has been partly distracted in 2007 by the way he could not mentally and emotionally adjust to the fact that his rookie team-mate was one of his closest rivals, and (2) he has spent most of 2008 in a lacklustre car and Renault has only really narrowed the performance gap in the last few races of 2008.

    Greatness: many drivers have great potential yet do not win a WDC. So, by winning the title even once, LH is achieving something truly special. It's like a dream come true.

    But many drivers have won the title once or twice and then not gone on from there. Look at Kimi. He has had so many seasons where he nearly won or was dreadfully unlucky race after race (with engine reliability) and that ruined his title chances. Finally he won the title in 2007 and now he seems flat. No fizz. Kimi's main achievement in 2008 has been to drive the most number of fastest laps in the races themselves. But winning is not just about some blisteringly quick laps here and there. It is about performing consistently. He hasn't done that in 2008. Hopefully, Kimi will find his way again next season.

    Other one-hit-wonders include Jacques Villeneuve, Damon Hill, Nigel Mansell.

    But the true measure of greatness is to excel over one's peers for a significant period of time AND in the process to transcend the normal mundane standards of the sport.

    I must confess, I have watched F1 since my early teenage years. As a result, I have not seen the old greats from the 1950s and 1960s. I was lucky to see the classic duel between Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost. And we have all witnessed the dominance of Michael Schumacher.

    Those drivers were titans who were head and shoulders above the rest of the field. They were not just drivers turning up to one race after another just earning a living hanging on to their place on the grid for as long as possible. No. They captivated us, mesmerised us with their exploits and they truly transcended the sport of F1. Giants like that are extremely rare. I wonder when we will see someone like that again. After winning the WDC twice, Alonso had the world at his feet. He had announced a year in advance that he would be leaving Renault for McLaren. How he must wish that he had moved to Ferrari instead! I have no doubt that Alonso would have won in 2007 and 2008 if he had been with Ferrari. Instead, Ferrari has now seen the less attractive side of Alonso in 2007 and that has put Luca di Montezemolo off signing Alonso. Hence LDM said he preferred Massa to stay instead of pairing Kimi with Alonso. That could have been a combustible mix.

    What of LH? If he wins the WDC again and again, it will be because he has filled the deficiencies I have mentioned above. But till then, talk of him being close to the greats is simply premature IMHO.

    The great thing is that there are talented drivers like Kubica and Vettel who could go on to achieve great things. So there is hope for the future...

    Just my 2 cents

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Very well written and objective assessment easy,thank you for that.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Here's my quick analysis of the consistency of the respective drivers in the top 8 (the ones worth analysing ) over the 17 races so far:

    Lewis Hamilton: 94 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/828.html

    5 wins, 10 podiums, 13 points finishes, 3 non points finishes, 1 retirement, 7 pole positions

    Felipe Massa: 87 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/18.html

    5 wins, 9 podiums, 12 points finishes, 3 non points finishes, 2 retirements, 5 pole positions

    Robert Kubica: 75 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/815.html

    1 win, 7 podiums, 14 points finishes, 1 non points finish, 2 retirements, 1 pole position

    Kimi Raikkonen: 69 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/12.html

    2 wins, 8 podiums, 11 points finishes, 4 non points finishes, 2 retirements, 2 pole positions

    Nick Heidfeld: 60 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/16.html

    0 wins, 4 podiums, 11 points finishes, 6 non points finishes, 0 retirements, 0 pole positions

    Fernando Alonso: 53 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/30.html

    2 wins, 2 podiums, 11 points finishes, 3 non points finishes, 3 retirements, 0 pole positions

    Heikki Kovalainen: 51 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/813.html

    1 win, 3 podiums, 10 points finishes, 4 non points finishes, 3 retirements, 1 pole position

    Sebastian Vettel: 30 pts

    http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/822.html

    1 win, 1 podium, 8 points finishes, 3 non points finishes, 6 retirements, 1 pole position

    The numbers don't lie

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Quote:
    Rich C (UK) said:
    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    , with not a single error, 10/10 concentration,



    Errr... whilst I want Hamilton to win as much as anyone not too sure I can concur with this

    Although we've had some really good drives this year it does seem to be coming round to who, and which team, made the least errors this year.. but we've a great pack of drivers at the moment.... which has mixed it up a lot.



    lol, may be I explained myself incorrectly....I meant IN SOME races he finished with not a single error, and 100% perfection....of course he did some errors during this season, but a lot less than its main competitors!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Quote:
    kashmir said:
    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    I would like to see Hamilton finishing 1rst in Brazil, and therefore getting the title !!!!....simple as that !.

    I've seen a lot of errors from Kimi and Massa, may be bad luck, or not....but at the end of the day, they have not reached their objectives at all...specially Kimi....with a car at the same level as Mclaren (and in some tracks even better), this should be forbidden to both of the ferrari drivers.

    As a spanish, and as an Alonso fan to death !!!!, I would seriously want to see hamilton with this season's title....He has performed excellent races, with not a single error, 10/10 concentration, and has been overall very consistent towards its results....so I look forward for Brazil, with him finishing in first place!

    Would like Ferrari, on the other hand, to focus in asking wtf is going on with their two pilots, specially with kimi....what in this earth can motivate him, apart of the multimillion figuere he has at the end of each year.

    Really, Alonso needs to move to Ferrari, get into's Kimi seat, and Santander pay the big bill for Kimi's very poor results....

    I have read from some rennteamers, that Kimi is the best in the trackand has the best personality when talking in public, and or talking about other pilots......WTF???????......

    I can guarantee that once Alonso goes to Ferrari, a new M.Schumacher era will return.....

    Also Kovalainen isnt performing a great season, in fact, if Alonso does good in Brazil, he will finish in the drivers championship better than Kovalainen with a Mclaren....(although we should see if Kovalainen's car is even the same car as Hamilton )

    If I was Kimi, I would start thinking what day of this year, should make public my retirement

    Anyway, realistically speaken, I see Alonso another year in Renault, lets hope if they improve as much as this last races.





    Was it a Rioja when writing these lines....? And how many bottles...

    10/10 for Hamilton....? You cannot be serious. There had been mistakes from Massa as well as from Raikkonen in 2008, stupid, avoidable...but racing errors, which can happen.

    But what Hamilton delivers is without words. I don't mean his driving mistakes in sense of leaving the track or overdoing his tires. I mean things as happened in Bahrain, Canada, Spa and Fuji. These are not mistakes....pure brainless action. Faults without a need. Beside his dumbness...his appearance is arrogant.

    Without a word he is a great driver. Definitely he is not the choosen one, or on a level with MS, Ayrton or similar icons. He is more a Mansell type of driver. Great races, followed by great insanity.

    Likely he will win this years WC...which he deserved. But it was not definitly not a convincing season by him in such a car.

    Alonso is still great... he will find his luck and opportunity for a third title. Likely not in a Ferrari.

    If tires are hot and understeer is down....Kimi is happy in his Cavallino Rampante and will go for a second title.





    yes, you are correct!!!!

    While writing my opinion, I was thinking in the last GP race we saw, (China GP), Hamilton had no competitors whatsoever....with all the pressure he has right now, 1rst in drivers championship, with all the things that happened last year, all pressure he has and what he has to show to everyone this year.....Hamilton is as good as ever, and while Massa and Kimi have went to sleep, Hamilton has been ceoncetrated and fighting....

    I am not defending Hamilton, all I am saying is that Massa and Kimi should really stop some hours, and think what the [beep] they have done during the entire year, to be in this situation......its pathetic.

    I hope Hamilton get this year title, because Ferrari has been below what they can really achieve....that's all, and that's why I want Hamilton to win.

    Oh and I dont like wine , I like Scotch whisky , may be I had some of that before writing all positive things from Hamilton......

    Alonso needs to move to Ferrari, NOW!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    The likely outcome will be:
    - Alonso hits LH to defend his youngest WDC and to secure a seat in Ferrari in 2010.
    - Anyone doesn't allow Massa to pass will get penality.

    Congrat to Ferrari another successful year of WDC and WCC.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Several rather cynical posts, but still a great thread!
    It's either Hamilton or Massa. I really like Massa, but he is no match to Hamilton. I begrudginly hope Hamilton doesn't choke in the final race and takes the WDC this year.
    With all the rule changes for next year, I can see Alonso and Renault doing very well. Competing with Kubica and BMW.
    Ferrari and McLaren had better be at the top of their game.
    McLaren needs a new number two, and Ferrari needs to bring back Barrichello and match him with maybe Sutil?
    It's just looking like a jolly good shakin' up of the status quo. IMHO

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Reading all the news reports and interviews from the past 2 weeks, I think Hamilton will do it. 
    --
    997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection: I love this car!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    I made this thread sticky, at least until sunday ;-)

     I personally think that Lewis Hamilton should win, because I always feel for the nice young guy with a potential for a generation change.

     But OTOH his team has made some pretty nasty things in the past. I totally feel like Alonso, not wanting McLaren to win but Hamilton.



    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    I would wish Massa is leading the last 6 laps Alonso in 5th place and Hamilton straight behind Alonso trying to pass....Smiley - despite that I obvioulsy do not like Hamliton much I would have to admit that this season he might deserve to be the best of the worse...

    However, I am worried about is attitude next year being wordchamp - maybe he thinks then everybody has to step aside then when he's behind.....I hope some guys show some bigger balls next year than letting him just pass...

    (btw : his 2nd technical should be due.... compared to others...) Let's see !


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    easy_rider911:
    Reading all the news reports and interviews from the past 2 weeks, I think Hamilton will do it. 
    --
    997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection: I love this car!!!

    I certainly hope so, but even the slightest mistake can turn the tables...

    Can't wait till sunday Smiley 


    --

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    that would be a neat outcome.

    Hamilton seems to be Formula 1's new diva, with a lot of star attitudes, I agree to that. And he makes mistakes and overestimates himself.

    But he's the young guy, to early to tell how he will behave in the future.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    For sure Hamilton is very talented. I've been folowing his career from F3 Euroseries and GP2 and he is a great driver.

    However, I would like to see Rosberg and Vettel in a top car before I decide whether LH is the best of the new generation.

    It would be great to see either of these two germans (well Rosberg 50%) in a McLaren-Mercedes going for the title soon! 


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Especially Vettel, but I'ld really hoped for him to be as successful with toro rosso as michael schumacher was with benetton.

    I hate to see him leave that team, I'm a Berger fan too :)


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Well he's moving up to Red Bull whatever happens to replace David Coulthard.

    Not so sure it's a move UP at present...Smiley


    --
    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    That's no moving UP, not at all. Berger and Vettel have made so much out of the 2nd grade car of a 3rd grade team.

    Once you have such a success, you shouldn't split up the team. But that's formula 1 today, it's not about the teams anymore, it's all managed like a giant company.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    hmmm, we did a pool at my work for this race...
    I Voted 1. Kovalainen, 2. Kubica, 3. Massa... Either I loose big time, or I will be praised as the biggest visionaire of the company! :P

    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    It will be like at the DTM (Di Resta vs Scheider), but this time being Mercedes in the dominant position and just making a well enough job to win the championship.

    That sucks the most, when they just play it safely, but they will :(


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    I like this quote on Sky Sports made by LH.

    "As a team we would love to win, but it's not so important. It's all about doing the best job. That's what racing is about."

    What a load of Tosh... lol....someone needs to tell him that "Racing" is about "winning" ,not taking part (He's not at school now!)

     There's now't like being defeatest....C'mon man, where's ya spine....Smiley


    --

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    But trying not to look like a complete idiot in the process of losing is important too Smiley

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    A very good synopsis of the various scenarios which may come into play during tomorrows race.....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7688157.stm

    Can't wait for qualifying.....only 45 minutes to go. Smiley


    --
    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Well....Massa and Trulli on the front row!  LH in 4th.  Good drive by both drivers on the front row.  Well tomorrow will be interesting. Smiley

    --

     
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