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    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Huh? The back of this car looks hideous. I hope these photos aren't anything like the real thing...

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Huh? The back of this car looks hideous. I hope these photos aren't anything like the real thing...



    Easy, the big pic at the top is PS:
    "From these new photos a computer generated image was created which might just be a close resemblance to the final product."

    Nevertheless I guess I'll like the front of the car much more than the rear

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Thanks for editing my post Ron I thought this image was so ugly that I didn't want to expose fellow Rennteamers to it on their home turf. I think the frontal shot of the blue Panamera is not as bad.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Looks like the love child of an older Jaguar and a recent Lexus


    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    I sincerely hope that it won't look like that

    No points for guessing which one I'd choose, if BMW puts it in production:

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Looks like the love child of an older Jaguar and a recent Lexus



    Well, after they've seen the child, I guess the love will disappear.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Porsche will produce a tremendous automobile--count on it. The design will be well crafted and researched, and the performance will be at the top of its class. As for the BMW, all I can say is that a close friend, who owns and has owned virtually every supercar (CGT, 997TT, Mercedes CL65, Mclaren SLR, Lamborghini Murcielago, 599GTB, etc.), bought an M5 and despised the I drive and the transmission. He sold it after a few months.

    Porsche's problem with the Panamera will not be its performance or its design--it will be whether or not the high performance sedan niche can accommodate another entry, no matter how outstanding. BMW and Lexus produce terrific sedans, and customer loyalty is difficult to overcome, making the niche even harder to crack. Porsche will depend on engineering and performance--as it always has--to try to cut out a profitable segment.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    High end sedans like this one with trendy " coupe styling " , like 2 door coupes themselves , don't usually have much sales after first two years . Anyone seen a NEW MBZ CLS on the roads lately ? CLS sales are WAY DOWN in the US vs two years ago when everyone was buzzing that this would point the way for all cars , blah,blah,..,.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    The Bimmer looks better

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    High end sedans like this one with trendy " coupe styling " , like 2 door coupes themselves , don't usually have much sales after first two years . Anyone seen a NEW MBZ CLS on the roads lately ? CLS sales are WAY DOWN in the US vs two years ago when everyone was buzzing that this would point the way for all cars , blah,blah,..,.



    So true.
    Actually I think people buying in this car category have zero loyalty, too many good brands to choose from.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    High end sedans like this one with trendy " coupe styling " , like 2 door coupes themselves , don't usually have much sales after first two years . Anyone seen a NEW MBZ CLS on the roads lately ? CLS sales are WAY DOWN in the US vs two years ago when everyone was buzzing that this would point the way for all cars , blah,blah,..,.



    True....but sales of virtually any $150K+ sedan/coupe are a disaster in US now (and BMW/Audi struggle to sell any $100K+ sedans even when economy is strong/irrationally exuberant )....some 80+ CL63, 50 S65, etc are now sitting new and unsold across US, even in major mkts....the high-end recession has already started in US for all new cars ex-599/430....

    Would observe a large "socioeconomic" gap often exists btwn guys who drive M5/E63, etc vs guys who commute via new S/CL63/65, esp in major mkts where steep housing/pvt school costs often constrain "aspirational"/working-class guys' discretionary car budgets .....and P needs to figure out which group to target w/Panam....

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    They will probably target both groups with a large range of HP and a long list of pricey options, like with the Cayenne.

    So more subsidized MB cheap leases on the horizon?

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    They will probably target both groups with a large range of HP and a long list of pricey options, like with the Cayenne.

    So more subsidized MB cheap leases on the horizon?



    Suspect so....have a couple of colleagues who recently got new, '08 S65s on fairly cheap 2yr leases, to use for kid-hauling (apparently SUVs are now viewed as Mommy/nanny-driven vehicles )

    And given NYC/Chicago are heading into their non-perf tire-compatible Fall/Winter, when it's even harder to sell 65s, I suspect discts/leases will be sweetened further....

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    They must be kidding. That is SO UGLY it makes a maserati look ok. I hear the toilet flushing.

    If you guys are right about the market for high end auto's, it just underscores what a market succes the 928 was. Why can't porsche produce anything even close to it now?

    I ask again; who can't wait to order one of these panamera's? (if it looks like this) and if it comes with porsche's habitual underpower. The competition looks better and is more powerful.

    I could do a lot better with 1.2 billion!

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    They must be kidding. That is SO UGLY it makes a maserati look ok. I hear the toilet flushing.

    If you guys are right about the market for high end auto's, it just underscores what a market succes the 928 was. Why can't porsche produce anything even close to it now?

    I ask again; who can't wait to order one of these panamera's? (if it looks like this) and if it comes with porsche's habitual underpower. The competition looks better and is more powerful.

    I could do a lot better with 1.2 billion!



    If the picture of the Panamera is accurate, I'll be forced to sell my 997S because I would be too embarassed to own a Porsche.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    I second that.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    I've stated it before on a an earlier thread , car design like clothing fashion goes through phases that tend to recycle. In the 70s, cars were creased /slab sided like all those urban cop cars in the TV shows and movies from back then for those of you too young to remember . The paradigm shifted when makes like Audi popularized the aero/jellybean/convexed torpedo look with the Audi 5000 in the early 80s and with which Ford took to the mass market with their succession of Tauruses . BMW changed things again with their controversial flame surfacing ( creases , extreme concavity and high sides). It now seems most non -iconic sports cars coming to market have some of those elements , as that is what we subconciously view as " current " and are comfortable with. When a company with an iconic bean shape in the 911 tries to scale it into a large 4 door car( Panemera ) , it looks odd because it looks " old " for today's roadways . That wasn't a problem for the relatively large eggy 928 in the 80s, because most cars were more " bean like " then.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    ....When a company with an iconic bean shape in the 911 tries to scale it into a large 4 door car( Panemera ) , it looks odd because it looks " old " for today's roadways . That wasn't a problem for the relatively large eggy 928 in the 80s, because most cars were more " bean like " then.



    I think the problem lies right here. Porsche doesn't need to design all of their cars to resemble the 911. 911 is an icon and it can't be tweaked with very much. However for a 4 door car that never existed in the history of Porsche, they could have come up with some radical design that didn't have carry any of the 911 DNA.

    As i said before Porsche needs to outsource their design to an Italian company and concentrate on what they're known for best, Engineering. Just my $0.02.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    I certainly understand your $0.02 Ron.
    Perhaps Porsche Design wouldn't take to kindly to having Italians develop the "new" Porsche.
    On the other hand, and looking at the picture (the CAD one); when initially comparing it to the BMW the Panamenra does indeed look outdated, but after a while (I've got very little to do at this point in time) the Panamera begins to grow on you (well sort of). Like its ancestral brethren, the Panamera will not be eye catching to the untrained and uninitiated petrol head, but to the Porsche lovers, it will eventually grow on us and we will learn to love it. (I'm in a very forgiving and optimistic mood).

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    MKW said:
    ....When a company with an iconic bean shape in the 911 tries to scale it into a large 4 door car( Panemera ) , it looks odd because it looks " old " for today's roadways . That wasn't a problem for the relatively large eggy 928 in the 80s, because most cars were more " bean like " then.



    I think the problem lies right here. Porsche doesn't need to design all of their cars to resemble the 911. 911 is an icon and it can't be tweaked with very much. However for a 4 door car that never existed in the history of Porsche, they could have come up with some radical design that didn't have carry any of the 911 DNA.

    As i said before Porsche needs to outsource their design to an Italian company and concentrate on what they're known for best, Engineering. Just my $0.02.



    I gotta agree with Ron here.

    The Panamera should be its own creation.

    mcdelaug

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Relax, guys. This is just another hideous photoshop job, probably based on the other camouflaged Panamera pictures posted by Worldcarfans. I really don't understand why they do this crap, if I would be Porsche, I would sue them for corporate image damages because this photoshop job is plain UGLY and doesn't have anything to do with the Panamera.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Thank God, I was waiting for you to chine in.

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Relax, guys. This is just another hideous photoshop job, probably based on the other camouflaged Panamera pictures posted by Worldcarfans. I really don't understand why they do this crap, if I would be Porsche, I would sue them for corporate image damages because this photoshop job is plain UGLY and doesn't have anything to do with the Panamera.



    Thank you RC .

    Re: WCF: Panamera in Spain

    I feel better now...

     
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