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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    And penalizing isn’t a synonym for the use of neutering in your sentence?


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Seems like the 2022 thread is going the same way as the 2021 thread… unfortunate. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    All because the hubris of Mercedes?


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Sitting eating popcorn


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Mercedes is good, ferrari is ok, red bull is bad, fia kills mercedes domination, they dont let toto to develop the car, toto tries, but all his tries are killed by fia. Happy for masi, now he can relax. This thread will live!!! 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    CGX car nut:

    And penalizing isn’t a synonym for the use of neutering in your sentence?

     

    Penalizing/neutering the 1st place team, the champion. Not Mercedes specific. I didn't say that. The FIA rule didn't say that. What makes you think that's the implied idea? It doesn't matter which team is the top dog, they will still get the same fate. 

    There is a big difference. 

    Like I said, a point here a point there last year and it would have been Red Bull instead of Mercedes. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Mercedes just happens to be the 1st place team, that's about as far as the link goes. 

    Seriously, you are biased, stop thinking everyone is like you and will be biased one way or another. 

    Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Mercedes isn't my favourite team, Ferrari is. At best Mercedes ranked 4th on my list. I have no need to bias FOR them. 

    When I comment on something, I see things from the rulebook's point of view, not from one team or another. 

    One has to see things from the rulebook out in order to see things neutrally. My comments from last year for the last race was all from the the rulebook's point of view, it has nothing to do with which driver I favoured. It just happened that had the rulebook been enforced correctly, Hamilton would have been the champion, that's just a coincidence. Same point of view here. FIA established the sliding scale for testing, which all 10 teams has signed off on, and Mercedes happens to be the team that get penalized the most because they were the most successful the last 2 years where that sliding scale is in effect. Nothing more. and I am IN FAVOUR of the sliding scale to boot. 

    In another words, I am in favour of penalizing Mercedes and boosting Haas and Williams. 

    Get it now?

     

     


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    thuggy:
    CGX car nut:
    thuggy:

    Same reasons as to why people move in any business, moving for opportunity and money.    RedBull was building an operation in essentially same location so people did not have to relocate.  Offer a number two or three person the opportunity to be a number one somewhere else and they will likely go even if they were happy where they were.

    Therefore, it’s not a coordinated effort on the part of the FIA to disable Mercedes, as was alluded to by Whoopsy.  

    I don't think Whoopsy ever said that.

    He alluded to it in his statement yesterday on how Mercedes was being penalized for winning the constructors cup last year.  That’s where he droned on about the lack of aerodynamic work allowed to the team versus other teams. 

    Screen Shot 2022-03-28 at 3.14.12 PM.png

    Here is the exact message.

    […]

    Take off your coloured goggles and just read things as they are, stop trying to infuse different meanings into words. 


    Well, obviously several people understood your sentence in a different way, me included. Smiley
     

    I‘d say though, we settled this misunderstanding…


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Ferdie:
    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    thuggy:
    CGX car nut:
    thuggy:

    Same reasons as to why people move in any business, moving for opportunity and money.    RedBull was building an operation in essentially same location so people did not have to relocate.  Offer a number two or three person the opportunity to be a number one somewhere else and they will likely go even if they were happy where they were.

    Therefore, it’s not a coordinated effort on the part of the FIA to disable Mercedes, as was alluded to by Whoopsy.  

    I don't think Whoopsy ever said that.

    He alluded to it in his statement yesterday on how Mercedes was being penalized for winning the constructors cup last year.  That’s where he droned on about the lack of aerodynamic work allowed to the team versus other teams. 

    Screen Shot 2022-03-28 at 3.14.12 PM.png

    Here is the exact message.

    […]

    Take off your coloured goggles and just read things as they are, stop trying to infuse different meanings into words. 


    Well, obviously several people understood your sentence in a different way, me included. Smiley
     

    I‘d say though, we settled this misunderstanding…

     

    "We' did. Someone else didn't🤷🏻‍♂️


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Las Vegas race confirmed. The American owner of F1 really trying to push F1 to the Americans.

    On paper, it's light years ahead of the 'Miami GP'. I mean, it's actually racing on the actual Las Vegas Strip, instead of a parking lot.
     

    Can the Americans get distracted enough from race cars going around a circle to support 3 F1 races?

    Liberty Media certainly think so.

    Personally, I would rather they host 3 Spa races, one dry, one wet and one half and half. Heck, I would rather see a full Nurburgring track over the Miami track.

    Or race against the endurance cars at Daytona 24. Let's see those F1 car last 24 Hours.

    While we are at it, get the F1 car do the 24 hours of Le Mans, just use one car for each team, both drivers sharing the car and also the reserve driver. 

     

     


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    So, it is going to be another "tunnel-city streets-walls-everywhere-part-time"-circuit in LV ? Not my cup of tea - the only city circuit I respect is Monaco out of tradition. Why is it that cities like LV or Jeddah cannot simply set-up a course "outside" the "city center" - it is not like these areas are very crowded ? And, the circuits could be used all-year-round Smiley ...Hotels on / near the strip will like it though...


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    City circuits and night races

     


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    A night race at Las Vegas with all the neon lights from the iconic hotels there is like playing a video game. 

    The general layout of the track is ok, the long straight will be like a mile long aka 1.6km, The back straight should be almost 800m. Finishing line and turn 1-4 will be temporary structures on an empty lot. 

    The back drop is so much nicer than the Miami race, which will just be racing around a parking lot. 

    There is an existing raceway just outside the city, the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Giant complex with a big oval and some infield turns. Gigantic outside parking lot and temporary circuit too, but the back drop will just be a sea of sand colour. 

    F1 is most certainly about money, and if the rumoured $100mil per race fro 10 years is true, then money certainly talks. Loudly.

     


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

     


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Finally someone explaining the phenomenon in terms of aeroelasticity, not strictly aerodynamics but including structural stiffness and natural frequencies of the system.  This is less a problem of restricted access to aerodynamics performance, whether wind tunnel testing and CFD, and more a systems integration problem. This this renders much of the whinging on restrictions moot.  


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    More downforce without the change of stiffness means more porpoising. There is nothing new there. In 70s i read there were the experiments to make the ground effect car without springing suspension. All in all the result was twin chassis lotus 80


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    2342CFE2-535F-48BB-A33C-2FEC0530AEB2.jpeg


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    More: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cb4ZTyrs8ER/?utm_medium=copy_link


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Can someone explain why VAG would want two brands competing against each other?  In best case one wins and one loses… worst case they both lose.  Seems to blunt the effectiveness of the marketing aspect. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    I believe to be independent on chassis manufacturer side. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    I believe to be independent on chassis manufacturer side. 

    One is the farm team. Toto Rosso anyone?  They doubled their chances as well. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    CGX car nut:

    Finally someone explaining the phenomenon in terms of aeroelasticity, not strictly aerodynamics but including structural stiffness and natural frequencies of the system.  This is less a problem of restricted access to aerodynamics performance, whether wind tunnel testing and CFD, and more a systems integration problem. This this renders much of the whinging on restrictions moot.  

     

    We watching the same video?

    It pretty much confirms they are lacking testing time. 

    Not enough data from their simulations, combined with car setup, and bodywork flexibility.

     


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Leawood911:
    kudryavchik:

    I believe to be independent on chassis manufacturer side. 

    One is the farm team. Toto Rosso anyone?  They doubled their chances as well. 

    I think red bull and toro rosso with porsche and mclaren with audi. So, this way vw will lower the risk on chassis side. F.e., if rb makes bad chassis there is other vw brand will be able to fight for win and vice versa. Also, considering the closed regulations nature of f1, they could share the financial expenses needed to develop the best f1 engine (basic architecture) , however, I think that the layout could be different (depending on the chassis side) 

    Its almost the same concept as it was in fia wec, simply different "tool" when porsche was represented as the best petrol hybrid carmaker and audi as the best diesel hybrid carmaker. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:

    Finally someone explaining the phenomenon in terms of aeroelasticity, not strictly aerodynamics but including structural stiffness and natural frequencies of the system.  This is less a problem of restricted access to aerodynamics performance, whether wind tunnel testing and CFD, and more a systems integration problem. This this renders much of the whinging on restrictions moot.  

     

    We watching the same video?

    It pretty much confirms they are lacking testing time. 

    Not enough data from their simulations, combined with car setup, and bodywork flexibility.

     

    I havent seen the lack of time. Merc aim was clear, to make the chassis with the most downforce and they have made the great chassis. They clearly have the most df and their drag is low (narrow  sidepods - > less frontal area - > less drag). However to me its a clear wonder why nobody thought about porpoising. And this problem should be noticeable with modern aero tunnels, because the modern aero tunnels have the rolling floor. In older times, 70-90s the models were blown with static wheels. Now the wheels are rolling, the car is fixed through the wheel nuts (in case of full scale models). F1 rules dictate the smaller models to be blown in tunnel, and maybe they have fixed the model through the airbox, thats why they havent seen the full picture. Its only the theory, I dont know for sure.

    Full scale model tunnel

    1_TCBYIuzQ8ePWZAtfG-T3GA.jpeg

    60%scale model tunnel

    a75a95205a148d7b6bd3621e5ad614e5.jpg


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    And Mercedes, as contractor champion, was more limited in utilization of the wondrous new modern wind tunnels.  Ie less testing time.   Which is all whoopsy was trying to say Smiley

    I would be shocked if Audi would want to be viewed as junior team lol.


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    To add to my post above, small edit after re read. About tunners, I have meant not the rolling wheels (which is important too to analyze the air wakes), but why the wheels are rolling, because the modern air tunnels have the rolling floor, so you are able to model the real life car behaviour. 


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    And Mercedes, as contractor champion, was more limited in utilization of the wondrous new modern wind tunnels.  Ie less testing time.   Which is all whoopsy was trying to say Smiley

    I would be shocked if Audi would want to be viewed as junior team lol.

    Of course less testing time has nothing in common with the problems they have. I think they will return sooner than later to the leading positions. Smiley


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Mercedes chassis actually aren't as 'low drag' as people thought. They had a 'great' concept. But needed testing time which they do not have. Without testing time it's much more difficult to extract proper performance out of their concept. 

    It has deficit in downforce, forcing them to run steeper wing, hence even more drag and lower top speed, and they were already short on power to start off with. The increased downforce on the top side just magnified the porpoising problem. 

    Of course eventually they will figure it out with enough test time, but by then the other teams would have moved onto other things, which means they will be spending the better part of the first half of the season playing catch up. Exactly what the sliding scale wanted, the top team playing catch up so the others can succeed. 

    The Red Bull car this year has gone for the Mercedes formula of last year. Trimming out the rear wing to gain top speed, while giving up a bit around corners. 

    The Ferrari this year is the best all around performer, their increased engine output allows them to run high downforce wings without sacrificing too much, while gaining a lot around corners. 

    I actually wouldn't be surprise if Haas finished ahead of Mercedes. Could be a long shot with the driver lineup, Mercedes has Hamilton and Russell after all. If K-Mag can keep performing, and Schumacher can get his act together, they do have a shot. Ferrari had assigned a bunch of their personal to Haas because of the cost cap, and Haas has spent all of 2021 developing the 2022 car AND they have over 30% extra testing time over Mercedes. Plus, they have the excellent Ferrari engine. 

    Alfa is another dark horse. Bottas is a match, if not a better driver than K-Mag. Zhou and Schumacher could be a wash. Haas has more testing time but Alfa isn't quite the pushover. 

    The duo of Ocon and Alonso can't be overlooked at Alpine. If Alpine can managed to get their car working properly, their drivers will deliver. 3rd at best. 5th or 6th is the likely spot, depending on how Mercedes ended up.

    Alpha Tauri. Gasly is a proven performer. Tsunoda on the other hand is a bit iffy. Their engine is great, if it can be proven to be reliable, chassis isn't too shabby either. Could they finished 3rd? Not likely. Other teams have better driver lineup. 4th? Possible. 

    There is a good chance that the 4 Mercedes powered team will finish 10th, 9th, 8th and 7th. 7th would be the worse place Mercedes could be in. Not likely but possible. 

    It's a great pity to see Norris in the struggling McLaren. He is suppose to be with Leclerc challenging Verstappen for the drivers' title. 

    One could say Russell jumped ship in time to not be stuck in the Williams, but then again the Mercedes isn't performing either. He is the most talented skill wise on the grid. Up there if not better than Verstappen. Russell literally dragged the slowest car on grid to Q3 numerous times. Could Max have done it? Maybe, but then again he never ever had a slow car in his career, even during the Mercedes/Ferrari years of 2017, 2018 and 2019, Red Bull still have a car good enough to win and he did win quite a few times. We were deprived of a great race at Spa 2021. Rain is a great equalizer for car differences, so the Red Bull car advantage over the Williams would be neutralized, oh well, we could only speculate.

    This year the championship is wide open. Mercedes aren't the default favourite, Red Bull isn't a lock even with Verstappen as the duo of Leclerc and Sainz is stronger than Verstappen and Perez. After those two, Mercedes could finish as high as 3rd or as low as 7th. Haas, Alfa, Alpha, Alpine all have their chances with the field quite equal. 

     

     


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Not quite F1 stuff but F1 related. Sort of.

    I can definitely relate to.

    The joy of running cold slicks. 

    Did that MANY times on a Cup car. The fun of having full lock yet the car is going straight. And then the front suddenly bite while the rear was on ice and snap over steer, checked. 

    Start a race on them cold on damp track, checked. Raced on them while raining. Checked.

    Running them on track while SNOWING. Been there done that at Leipzig. It's actually snowing, in April. Farmer was with me skating together. 

    Hardest part was to go against instinct, keep pushing them harder and harder to get heat into the cold slicks to get them in to working window. Sort of. Zero grip yet still needed pushing. That's the toughest thing to do. 


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    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    Whoopsy, testing time is the same for everyone in F1. R&d time is different. Also, I remember well in 2021 topic you said that merc stopped to develop 2021 car thats why rb was faster the second half of the season. Now you say merc had a deficit of time. wink


    Re: [2022] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    Whoopsy, testing time is the same for everyone in F1. R&d time is different. Also, I remember well in 2021 topic you said that merc stopped to develop 2021 car thats why rb was faster the second half of the season. Now you say merc had a deficit of timewink

     

    That's not mutually exclusive you know?

    Mercedes has deficit in testing time as compared to everyone else. Since the rule came into effect they won both years.

    2021 ended with both Red Bull and Mercedes having the same, as one was leading at the shuffle point and the other at the end. For 2020 Mercedes did not share that top spot with anyone else, so they get the least time by themselves. 

    Simple. 

    Honestly, go pick on someone else. You not succeeding here.


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