Apr 3, 2006 9:40:54 AM
- easy_rider911
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
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Apr 3, 2006 9:45:20 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Apr 3, 2006 9:58:49 AM
- ERdoc
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
I thought it was not possible to retro-fit the Powerkit (X51)?!
You can certainly have X51 fitted aftermarket and my Porsche distributor have given me a quote already. However, you can only install X51 aftermarket to late 997S, with manual transmission only. I am not sure if you can avoid paying for PSE again, though.
I am getting X51 aftermarket for my forthcoming C4S because I wish to avoid the dreaded 100% tax applicable here.
Apr 3, 2006 10:28:31 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Interesting, when you order X51 from the factory, it's possible to get it with Tip S too...(the main price list says so)
I would expect that eventually it will be possible to buy X51 aftermarket not just from Porsche dealers but also from 3rd party suppliers: maybe www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm may sell it in future.
I would expect that eventually it will be possible to buy X51 aftermarket not just from Porsche dealers but also from 3rd party suppliers: maybe www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm may sell it in future.
Apr 3, 2006 1:35:20 PM
- meaker
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Seam like a lot of money to spend for such little HP gains. I sure it would be more then the factory price because of labor. If I was going to go though the trouble, I would either sell the car and get a GT3 or a TT. Maybe get a supercharger for less and gain a lot more power. Just my opinion.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
I have to agree with meaker, I can't justify spending $15000+ on the X51 upgrade. I would rather spend a little more and get a new GT3 or perhaps a lot more and buy the TT. Then I can justify the money as I have the TT or the GT3 but on my 997S I will go as far as high performance exhaust and software upgrade. IMHO, yes the X51 makes the car faster but not that much faster to justify the money spent. Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot. Again, it's just what I think, for those of you that have the X51, please don't be offended by what I say here. The X51 is an awsome package but the additional performance to me is not worth the bucks.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
I have to agree with meaker, I can't justify spending $15000+ on the X51 upgrade. I would rather spend a little more and get a new GT3 or perhaps a lot more and buy the TT. Then I can justify the money as I have the TT or the GT3 but on my 997S I will go as far as high performance exhaust and software upgrade. IMHO, yes the X51 makes the car faster but not that much faster to justify the money spent. Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot. Again, it's just what I think, for those of you that have the X51, please don't be offended by what I say here. The X51 is an awsome package but the additional performance to me is not worth the bucks.
With due respect, whether the X51 is worth it depends very much on which part of the world you are in. In my part of the world, we have up to 100% tax for cars. The X51 costs US$16,000 + 100% tax as a factory option. As an aftermarket option, installed at least six months after the car is licensed, will not be subjected to tax. Yes, it will cost more at US$18,000, but no tax. This may still sound a lot, but not so much relatively to the cost of a new C4S, which will cost me US$220,000. Thus for me, the X51 amounts to an extra 8% in cost, for a 7.3% gain in horsepower.
Apr 3, 2006 4:28:32 PM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot.
The X51 powered car will walk away from your friend's 996TT cab.
The fully spec X51 car costs more than the new 997GT3 at my dealership.
Apr 3, 2006 5:39:57 PM
- edz
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
Avantgarde said:Quote:
edz61 said:
Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot.
The X51 powered car will walk away from your friend's 996TT cab.
The fully spec X51 car costs more than the new 997GT3 at my dealership.
Well it all depends on your definition of walking away. To me walking away means one car dusting the other car off. The X51 will not dust the 996TT.
Apr 3, 2006 5:53:27 PM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
Well it all depends on your definition of walking away. To me walking away means one car dusting the other car off. The X51 will not dust the 996TT.
Well, you said "I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line."
From your statement, I concur that the X51 will totally dust your friend's 996TT cab off in first and 2nd, not just any other 996TT, just your friend's
. The X51 is clearly faster than a standard CarreraS from any speed.
FWIW, you may not have driven a X51 powerkited car extensively to pass any judgement with all due respect. 
Apr 3, 2006 6:09:02 PM
- edz
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
Avantgarde said:Quote:
edz61 said:
Well it all depends on your definition of walking away. To me walking away means one car dusting the other car off. The X51 will not dust the 996TT.
Well, you said "I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line."
From your statement, I concur that the X51 will totally dust your friend's 996TT cab off in first and 2nd, not just any other 996TT, just your friend's
The X51 is clearly faster than a standard CarreraS from any speed.
FYI I have driven the X51 but I have not raced it against the 996TT. The X51 I drove had only 2000 miles on it, yes it was faster than my 997S but make no mistakes no matter how fast it will not dust the 996TT. Again dusting to me means blow the doors off the competition.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
One more thing my friend, we are all friends and comrads and not foes. My opinion, yours or someone else, it just exchange of thoughts and ideas, while having fun and learning from each other. I may have different experiences than others here but that does not make me smarter, better or even dummer for that matter. What counts is we are all in love with cars and we are like a family, hey families have their differences too but they still love each other 
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:total agree with you on this..
edz61 said:
One more thing my friend, we are all friends and comrads and not foes. My opinion, yours or someone else, it just exchange of thoughts and ideas, while having fun and learning from each other. I may have different experiences than others here but that does not make me smarter, better or even dummer for that matter. What counts is we are all in love with cars and we are like a family, hey families have their differences too but they still love each other
Apr 4, 2006 5:15:18 PM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
FYI I have driven the X51 but I have not raced it against the 996TT. The X51 I drove had only 2000 miles on it, yes it was faster than my 997S but make no mistakes no matter how fast it will not dust the 996TT. Again dusting to me means blow the doors off the competition.
Sorry, but I do not understand why your responding this way??
I have never implied that a X51 car will dust just any 996TT, I am extrapolating on your experiences that if your super fast Carrera S could hang on to YOUR NEIGHBOUR's 996TT Cab, then it is clear to say that the super-super-fast X51ed CS may dust your friend's 996TT cab 
....With all due respect, if I have make a mistake, I'd admit it only because you have clearly made it in the first instance!
Apr 4, 2006 5:30:48 PM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
ERdoc said:Quote:
edz61 said:
I have to agree with meaker, I can't justify spending $15000+ on the X51 upgrade. I would rather spend a little more and get a new GT3 or perhaps a lot more and buy the TT. Then I can justify the money as I have the TT or the GT3 but on my 997S I will go as far as high performance exhaust and software upgrade. IMHO, yes the X51 makes the car faster but not that much faster to justify the money spent. Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot. Again, it's just what I think, for those of you that have the X51, please don't be offended by what I say here. The X51 is an awsome package but the additional performance to me is not worth the bucks.
With due respect, whether the X51 is worth it depends very much on which part of the world you are in. In my part of the world, we have up to 100% tax for cars. The X51 costs US$16,000 + 100% tax as a factory option. As an aftermarket option, installed at least six months after the car is licensed, will not be subjected to tax. Yes, it will cost more at US$18,000, but no tax. This may still sound a lot, but not so much relatively to the cost of a new C4S, which will cost me US$220,000. Thus for me, the X51 amounts to an extra 8% in cost, for a 7.3% gain in horsepower.
Totally agree with you, it seems some of our friends in the US simply have no clue how much a car will cost from our part of the world. FYI, a highly speced Carrera S w/X51 (USD350k) from our part of the world could possibly buy 2 997TT in the US or 1 Carrera GT!
So USD16k for the X51 kit is just simply another interesting option ...the cost comparison is clearly justifiable.
Apr 4, 2006 5:56:21 PM
- devo
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
Avantgarde said:Quote:
edz61 said:
Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot.
The X51 powered car will walk away from your friend's 996TT cab.
The fully spec X51 car costs more than the new 997GT3 at my dealership.
I don't believe that a X51 equipped 997 will "walk" away from any 996 turbo.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
devo said:Quote:
Avantgarde said:Quote:
edz61 said:
Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot.
The X51 powered car will walk away from your friend's 996TT cab.
The fully spec X51 car costs more than the new 997GT3 at my dealership.
I don't believe that a X51 equipped 997 will "walk" away from any 996 turbo.
10-4 Devo, I agree 100%, my neighbors 04 TT cab and my 06 997S are close in the 1st two gears and then the Turbo will pull away harder although the TT does not handle as good as the 997S. The X51 is only .2 second faster than the 997S there are dreamers on this site thinking the X51 will just kill anything out there.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Devo: I agree 100% what this man is saying is; since i said my 997S stays with my neighbors 996TT cab in the 1st and 2nd gear thus his car with the X51 should be able to walk away from the 996TT. What he fails to understand is that 1st of all I only keep up with the 996TT cab in 1st and 2nd gear and that is only one 996TT and not all of them and also that the X51 is only .2 of a second faster than the 997S. So the X51 can beat the 997S but it will not walk away from 997S or 996TT. There is a big difference between beating and walking away
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:Quote:
devo said:Quote:
Avantgarde said:Quote:
edz61 said:
Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot.
The X51 powered car will walk away from your friend's 996TT cab.
The fully spec X51 car costs more than the new 997GT3 at my dealership.
I don't believe that a X51 equipped 997 will "walk" away from any 996 turbo.
10-4 Devo, I agree 100%, my neighbors 04 TT cab and my 06 997S are close in the 1st two gears and then the Turbo will pull away harder although the TT does not handle as good as the 997S. The X51 is only .2 second faster than the 997S there are dreamers on this site thinking the X51 will just kill anything out there.
Agreed.
If money was not a consideration, of course I'd have a PCCB, X51 equipped car, however, as many have previously stated, you're now in turbo territory; and the aforementioned resale would be terrible. Hence, that is precisely why I ordered a turbo and am trading my 997S.
Apr 5, 2006 1:37:52 AM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
...So the X51 can beat the 997S but it will not walk away from 997S ...
Check, you are clearly contradicting yourself here.
There is such instance as a slow walk 
.....keep walking 
Please take note that I have not at any time mentioned what happens from the 3rd gear henceforth, it is without a doubt that everyone agrees that a turbo will almost annihilate any Carrera S.
Your neighbour's 996TT cab is probably underperforming. 
X51 is properly developed by Porsche with substantial hardware and software developments for the ultimate streetable naturally aspirated 911 with rear seats for the street.
IMHO, it is definitely worth every penny spent. I presume the dreamers you are refering to are those that think that any lower cost aftermarket solution could better the 'peace of mind' option from Porsche....think again.
Apr 5, 2006 1:46:30 AM
- rhino
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
From what I have read in some countries where the tax is a real dilema the X51 is a great option. I tried to order it here in the U.S. but it was on back order(thank God I didn't anymore 15K to the price of the car). I truely hope the AWE or Tubi headers and muf. shave those .2 off 0-60
Apr 5, 2006 1:52:43 AM
- meaker
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:I guess we here in the US, have it good when it comes to taxes on cars. I believe my tax was only 3%. I couldn't imagine 100% tax. I would be driving a piece of **it, if that was the case hear.
Avantgarde said:Quote:
ERdoc said:Quote:
edz61 said:
I have to agree with meaker, I can't justify spending $15000+ on the X51 upgrade. I would rather spend a little more and get a new GT3 or perhaps a lot more and buy the TT. Then I can justify the money as I have the TT or the GT3 but on my 997S I will go as far as high performance exhaust and software upgrade. IMHO, yes the X51 makes the car faster but not that much faster to justify the money spent. Guys I put my 06 997S against my neigbors 04 996TT cab and off the line we are so close, not once has he taken me in 1st or 2nd gear, yes over all the 996TT is a faster car but not off the line. So how much difference do you think the X51 will make, some but not a whole a lot. Again, it's just what I think, for those of you that have the X51, please don't be offended by what I say here. The X51 is an awsome package but the additional performance to me is not worth the bucks.
With due respect, whether the X51 is worth it depends very much on which part of the world you are in. In my part of the world, we have up to 100% tax for cars. The X51 costs US$16,000 + 100% tax as a factory option. As an aftermarket option, installed at least six months after the car is licensed, will not be subjected to tax. Yes, it will cost more at US$18,000, but no tax. This may still sound a lot, but not so much relatively to the cost of a new C4S, which will cost me US$220,000. Thus for me, the X51 amounts to an extra 8% in cost, for a 7.3% gain in horsepower.
Totally agree with you, it seems some of our friends in the US simply have no clue how much a car will cost from our part of the world. FYI, a highly speced Carrera S w/X51 (USD350k) from our part of the world could possibly buy 2 997TT in the US or 1 Carrera GT!
Apr 5, 2006 2:01:48 AM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
meaker said:
I guess we here in the US, have it good when it comes to taxes on cars. I believe my tax was only 3%. I couldn't imagine 100% tax. I would be driving a piece of **it, if that was the case hear.
Taxes + other facilitating paperwork cost approx. 250%
..X51 option is only less than 5% of total Carrera car price.
...in return for a 7% gain in power
Apr 5, 2006 6:45:20 AM
- bluelines
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
...okay, and in comparison with the GT3. The price is how much higher than a Carrera S with X51? The power increase?
Well, the GT3 is 6% more expensive than a Carrera S with X51 and no other options. However, some Carrera S options, like Sport Seats and Short Shifter are standard in the GT3. Thus you could argue that the difference is less than 6%.
The power is up 9% for the GT3 compared to a Carrera S with X51.
So for a marginally higher price you get 9% more power. Suddently X51 feels like a complete rip-off
Well, the GT3 is 6% more expensive than a Carrera S with X51 and no other options. However, some Carrera S options, like Sport Seats and Short Shifter are standard in the GT3. Thus you could argue that the difference is less than 6%.
The power is up 9% for the GT3 compared to a Carrera S with X51.
So for a marginally higher price you get 9% more power. Suddently X51 feels like a complete rip-off
Apr 5, 2006 2:59:27 PM
- Avantgarde
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Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Agreed but the Carrera S has other luxuries, rear seats, additional X51 performance in low to mid rpms as compared to the basic Carrera S, and most of all ground clearance for everyday drivability. It seems odd to drive an expensive GT3 around town consciously avoiding but nonetheless unintentionally scraping almost every variance in road heights amongst crowded streets especially if your business client is sitting in the passenger seat and not too loud with the exhaust....certainly not a great positive impression for business matters.
Unfortunately, majority of 911 owners do not track their cars but use it as their daily drive. I admire the fortunate few who live in countries with great roads, with so much available track time on their watch and I would definitely consider the 997GT3 in a heartbeat if I were them. 
Otherwise the 997 turbo would be the obvious ultimate choice for the same reasons RC has decided.
Unfortunately, majority of 911 owners do not track their cars but use it as their daily drive.
I admire the fortunate few who live in countries with great roads, with so much available track time on their watch and I would definitely consider the 997GT3 in a heartbeat if I were them. Otherwise the 997 turbo would be the obvious ultimate choice for the same reasons RC has decided.
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
bluelines said:
...okay, and in comparison with the GT3. The price is how much higher than a Carrera S with X51? The power increase?
Well, the GT3 is 6% more expensive than a Carrera S with X51 and no other options. However, some Carrera S options, like Sport Seats and Short Shifter are standard in the GT3. Thus you could argue that the difference is less than 6%.
The power is up 9% for the GT3 compared to a Carrera S with X51.
So for a marginally higher price you get 9% more power. Suddently X51 feels like a complete rip-off
I agree 100% X51 is not worth the money at all. You will still get blown away buy the GT3 and spend as much or more money and you are still driving a 997S but the GT3 is in a league of it's own period.
Apr 5, 2006 5:13:27 PM
- Avantgarde
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- Reply to: edz
Re: XLF to X51 aftermarket possible?
Quote:
edz61 said:
I agree 100% X51 is not worth the money at all. You will still get blown away buy the GT3 and spend as much or more money and you are still driving a 997S but the GT3 is in a league of it's own period.
Can you enlighten us which option offered by Porsche is actually worth its money at all in the first place vis-a-vis similar option offered by other mass-market car manufacturers?
Life is short, you only live once, no need to squabber over what option is worth it or not, if one can afford it, just spend it and enjoy for whatever its worth while it lasts.
Got tired of it, simply move on to something better.
I know I would with no love lost Whatever car you own, there will always be another car someday out there that will definitely dust our present ride anyhow...and it will ineveitably be more expensive, so is it still worth it?
We should count ourselves fortunate (I do
) to own such wonderful cars, do not have to justify for others about the money spent. As you have said that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and choice too. Cheers
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