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    Prelim 430 Impressions

    Had chance to drive/ride in pal's new 430 for several hundred miles this past wkend through SF/Napa/Woodside. Some limitations on ability to fully exploit car as saw an apparently heavy CHP presence around SF region this wkend. But prelim view is car is phenomenal combo of sports and GT car.....430 captures many of best attributes of 996TTS and SL55 in one car w/infinitely more street presence...which can obviously be both very useful at times and troublesome at other times....

    Visually, this 430 had ceramics......given the 19" Enzo-style wheels, car clearly needs the ceramic-size calipers to avoid having the "girlie-looking" brakes of smaller calipers (I vaguely recall non-ceramics as being smaller calipers)....and given a 430 is fundamentally an illogical, blingy, discretionary sports car toy, why skimp on $15K?

    Exhaust note is phenomenal....IMO, one of the best....very throaty, more intimidating than the shrill/shrieky 360/CS notes. Must say that I'd be hard pressed to distinguish 430's exhaust note from CS' in absolute noise level as heard from outside of car in an urban setting (w/reverbs off of surrounding buildings). The racing exhaust option (no timeline yet on availability) may set a new gold standard for aural presence from a factory-spec exhaust.

    Dynamically, 430's major upside vs 360 is immediate and plentiful torque. F1 tranny is once again even more refined (given how much F has improved the F1 tranny over past 5 yrs, makes one realize P will prob have a relatively buggy DSG box on initial intro on 997TTS); notably, auto mode is comparable to any auto tranny like 996TTS or SL55 in smoothness....great for urban commuter duty. Another major change vs 360 fortunately/unfortunately is that car has been GT-ized.....very supple ride (even in race mode), even through pock-marked urban streets; ride is comparable to those of 996TTS/SL55. Steering is precise but lacks nervous edginess/precision of CS'...more comparable to regular 360/996TTS steering feel. Brake pedal feel/fade resistance is very comparable to that of CS, even after several repeated high speed stops. Chassis/handling feel in twisties is more akin to 996TTS, a heavier car with brilliantly engineered deftness (let's not forget that German mags are weighing 430 at only about 150 lbs lighter than 996TTS).

    Net, net....a superb piece of engineering....car is eminently more commutable/usable than before (even has Bluetooth); will hold its own in fwy "jigsaw puzzle" maneuvers vs torque-rich commuter cars like 996TTS/SL55, yet will also provide tremendous precision in twisties, beyond capabilities of prob 99+% of drivers....brilliant marketing approach on part of F....why let Merc and P capture the high-end commuter car mkt of SF/Greenwich?....kudos to F for smartly engineering the 430 for the needs of their customer base, which is prob increasingly composed of younger guys who often use their F-cars for both essentially urban/suburban straight-line commuting and wkend twisties, an increasing phenomenon of perhaps the past 5 yrs...these same serial buyers will eagerly snap up the 430CS when it arrives....and the 997TTS (W/DSG), 997GT3 (w/PSM&DSG) and 430CS will make for interesting competition in the next couple of yrs....

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Great report, thanks!

    Makes the waiting even harder...

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Idem, great report

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Thanks, nice read!
    Funny how you put the 996 Turbo and the SL55 in the same bag, apart from the price, I can't see what they have in common (when it comes to sports cars criteria of course).

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    does it pull harder than ur CS?

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    and given a 430 is fundamentally an illogical, blingy, discretionary sports car toy, why skimp on $15K?





    Well, for one reason, if you like to track the car, pads are about $2k for the entire car. I do like the way they look, and yes, the calipers are larger on the carbon-brake cars.

    Gary

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Steering is precise but lacks nervous edginess/precision of CS'...more comparable to regular 360/996TTS steering feel.



    I know you guys are tired of hearing this, but this is almost certainly down to the tire difference...

    Gary

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Visually, this 430 had ceramics......given the 19" Enzo-style wheels, car clearly needs the ceramic-size calipers to avoid having the "girlie-looking" brakes of smaller calipers (I vaguely recall non-ceramics as being smaller calipers)....and given a 430 is fundamentally an illogical, blingy, discretionary sports car toy, why skimp on $15K?





    AMEN !

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Thanks, nice read!
    Funny how you put the 996 Turbo and the SL55 in the same bag, apart from the price, I can't see what they have in common (when it comes to sports cars criteria of course).



    Much prefer 996TTS over SL55 in twisties....despite brilliant electronics, 55's 800 some lbs addtl wt over 996TTS is hard to hide. But in straight-line driving on fwy (which is a large part of daily use of most cars), I'd give nod to 55 for lack of turbo lag and intimidating exhaust note vs 996TTS "silent assassin" muffled exhaust note....

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    and given a 430 is fundamentally an illogical, blingy, discretionary sports car toy, why skimp on $15K?





    Well, for one reason, if you like to track the car, pads are about $2k for the entire car. I do like the way they look, and yes, the calipers are larger on the carbon-brake cars.

    Gary



    Fair point. Though for track, wouldn't the some 60 lbs reduction in unsprung wt of ceramics be a potential source of improved handling? Esp given that this car was weighed by ?AutoZeitung at roughly 3350lbs, may want to try to offset some of the bulkiness. Prob in 18-24 mos we'll all be happily paying F an added $30K or so to get a 430CS that's stripped down by another 150lbs....unfortunately, sounds like 430CS will still weigh in at roughly 150 lbs more than 360CS....

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    But in straight-line driving on fwy (which is a large part of daily use of most cars), I'd give nod to 55 for lack of turbo lag and intimidating exhaust note vs 996TTS "silent assassin" muffled exhaust note....



    Is turbo lag significant, even on the recent 996TT? I guess compared to the SL55, lag is pretty noticeable.

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    But in straight-line driving on fwy (which is a large part of daily use of most cars), I'd give nod to 55 for lack of turbo lag and intimidating exhaust note vs 996TTS "silent assassin" muffled exhaust note....



    Is turbo lag significant, even on the recent 996TT? I guess compared to the SL55, lag is pretty noticeable.



    Have a 996TTS now and had SL55 in recent past; turbo lag is very noticeable to anyone jaded by 55's hard-to-beat mid-range pull, but once turbos spool, 996TTS is prob faster than 55....overall, definitely prefer 996TTS over 55, but do have couple of friends who switched from 996TTX50 to SL55 for straight-line use, as they were annoyed by the turbo lag....

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    But in straight-line driving on fwy (which is a large part of daily use of most cars), I'd give nod to 55 for lack of turbo lag and intimidating exhaust note vs 996TTS "silent assassin" muffled exhaust note....



    Is turbo lag significant, even on the recent 996TT? I guess compared to the SL55, lag is pretty noticeable.



    Have a 996TTS now and had SL55 in recent past; turbo lag is very noticeable to anyone jaded by 55's hard-to-beat mid-range pull, but once turbos spool, 996TTS is prob faster than 55....overall, definitely prefer 996TTS over 55, but do have couple of friends who switched from 996TTX50 to SL55 for straight-line use, as they were annoyed by the turbo lag....



    yep, the 8 cyl, entry level f car is not really so limited anymore - at least not for ferrari. they're pumping out 4k F430s/year (55% convertible) and i expect at least some production increase.

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    A good friend of mine just ordered one of these 430s in Miami. The last Ferrari he had was a 360 M and he wanted to get back into the heritage, after having driven MBs for quite some time. He told me that the car is extremely impressive in the tangible department (power, movement, stability, comfort, the combination of all etc...), but that it lacks the intangibles that he felt in his 360M. The electronics and controls are all fun and seem applicable, but he feels that there is a trendster element to the car (he, making a living in South Beach, knows a thing or two about trendsters). It rolls down the urban streets in its soft auto mode like a showboat; a prepster's "object d'art." Hopefully I'll be able to get a test drive next time I go down and provide a little more info.

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions


    yep, the 8 cyl, entry level f car is not really so limited anymore - at least not for ferrari. they're pumping out 4k F430s/year (55% convertible) and i expect at least some production increase.



    NO production increase as they told me last week (at Maranello),they are on FULL capacity, they are making 19 cars a day, of witch 12 of them are 8cyl.
    For now they are making even some 8cyl on the 12cyl line. but that will stop once the succesor of the 575 arrives ..

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    there will be a lot less than 4k F430/year, they are 'only' making about 4800 cars in total/year

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    and given a 430 is fundamentally an illogical, blingy, discretionary sports car toy, why skimp on $15K?





    Well, for one reason, if you like to track the car, pads are about $2k for the entire car. I do like the way they look, and yes, the calipers are larger on the carbon-brake cars.

    Gary



    Fair point. Though for track, wouldn't the some 60 lbs reduction in unsprung wt of ceramics be a potential source of improved handling? Esp given that this car was weighed by ?AutoZeitung at roughly 3350lbs, may want to try to offset some of the bulkiness. Prob in 18-24 mos we'll all be happily paying F an added $30K or so to get a 430CS that's stripped down by another 150lbs....unfortunately, sounds like 430CS will still weigh in at roughly 150 lbs more than 360CS....



    But I go to the track for fun, not to try set fast lap of the day where a few lbs might count. I'd rather give up a few tenths and have cheaper replacement costs.

    Gary

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    fwiw, ferrari list the breakdown of the 110 kg saved from the 360 to the CS as follows:

    engine & gearbox -11
    unsuspended mass -5
    body -94

    so apparently 360 (and 430) brakes are already considerably lighter than porsche's because the entire unsuspended weight savings is a total of -5kg (12 lbs?) and that includes the savings from titanium springs and wheel bolts.

    Re: Prelim 430 Impressions

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    fwiw, ferrari list the breakdown of the 110 kg saved from the 360 to the CS as follows:

    engine & gearbox -11

    unsuspended mass -5
    body -94

    so apparently 360 (and 430) brakes are already considerably lighter than porsche's because the entire unsuspended weight savings is a total of -5kg (12 lbs?) and that includes the savings from titanium springs and wheel bolts.



    ....... so you must be on a strict diet all the time to save some weight

     
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