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    Aug 9, 2005 4:09:12 PM

    tori
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    Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    It seems Panamera is a V8 FR GT car with 4 doors. Will 911 become more pure sport in the future? So far Cayman seems more sport and 911 is a GT car (sry no offense, I like the good mix of both. Not talking about GT2,3) Just wondering where Porsche is heading.

    Aug 9, 2005 4:58:49 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: tori

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    My guess is that the next 911 (998) will again be bigger and more powerful (possibly with 8-cyl motor). Guess the Boxster/Cayman is the future sportscar?

    Aug 9, 2005 7:08:44 PM

    tori
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    I'm concerned that Porsche becomes Ferrari wannabe's car. (it is not in the past) 911 is only car to keep Porsche identity even after having smiler lineups like Ferrari's Super car, Lux GT car and sports car.

    I want Porsche to keep battling to Ferrari in each group. I don't want to see Porsche to make cheaper therefore less performance kind of cars. I may be worried too much because F430 is so good.

    Aug 9, 2005 10:50:27 PM

    mcdelaug
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    Reply to: tori

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    I don't think Porsche has a rigidly defined "ideal" in mind. Instead I think Porsche decides these things based on what they think their customers will keep paying for. That's certainly the motivation behind the Panamera. I know this sounds obvious, but what I mean is most future 911 buyers will want more horsepower, a rear-engine layout, evolutionary 911 styling and a steadily increasing number of creature comforts. So the next 911 will provide these things in the way that costs Porsche the least money. That might mean a V8, but probably they can continue to squeeze more out of the flat-6. I am quite certain it will mean ever increasing mass and higher vehicle prices to offset more exotic materials usage to counteract this.

    As for the Cayman, if Porsche would build a "no holds barred" mid-engine car I'd buy it, even if the profit margin they built in was similar to that of the 911 turbo. I'd be very enthusiastic about a Cayman with specs similar to those of the anticipated 997 turbo, or even the GT3. But as long as Porsche refuses to build a midengine car that thoroughly challenges the 911 series, I won't be buying anything better than the Boxster S.

    With Porsche's current product lineup, I'd just save my cash for an F430 as my next sports car.

    mcdelaug

    Aug 10, 2005 12:40:16 AM

    DaveC
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    Past is prologue. No one is going to try and klill the golden goose again. I don't believe the 911 is in any immediate danger and evolution will continue as long as it remains profitable for Porsche to do so. I don't expect too much evolution from the Cayman. This car could have been introduced years ago and despite what Porsche claims, I suspect the development costs were relatively minor. The CaymanS represents for Porsche a balancing act between introducing merely an entry level Boxster coupe (there's already a lot of ho-hum yawns as it is for the S) and sales competition for the 911. IMHO Porsche's goal with the Cayman S is simply to fill a fairly small niche and capture some sales with minimum effort/investment. Although the Cayman's potential is clear, this car is not a sink or swim model like 986 was in 1997, and there is more incentive to limit development at this time than to explore the potential. I see the Panamera as another example of Porsche extending itself into another (profitable) area of the luxury automobile market. The Cayenne has been highly successful and the thinking behind the Panamera is the same. Clearly Porsche has the working capital at this time to invest in the Panamera as a full in house model which will be necessary to attract buyers in the price segment anticipated.

    Aug 10, 2005 3:23:01 AM

    Gary No Cal
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    Reply to: DaveC

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    It's all about profits. I am sure Porsche has done intensive market studies on a coupe/sedan several times and their experts tell them there is a market. What I find interesting is either inaccurate reporting or extremely optimistic sale goals by Porsche. The report I read (Autoweek, I think) has the car price at $125,000 to $175,000 US depending on fitment with 20,000 units per year! That seems unrealisticly high volume, unless all those Cayenne and Boxster owners move up to the Panamera. I do like the name though.

    Aug 10, 2005 4:08:30 AM

    mcdelaug
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    Reply to: DaveC

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    Dave,

    I agree 100% with everything you've said. As much as I would like to see an "uber Cayman" it simply won't happen. If Porsche had ever contemplated such a thing the car they're releasing this fall wouldn't be wearing an 'S' at only 295hp.

    and Gary,

    I think you're right too. I think that Porsche will have a difficult time moving 20,000 units a year at $125K. Especially if the Cayenne TT is still less than $100K. I suspect their marketing research says that the same customers that buy the 911 turbo would buy a Porsche sedan for similar money, and undoubtedly that's true. But there will be a lot more competition in the sedan market in 2008-9 than there was in the SUV market when the Cayenne was introduced, or in the 911 turbo's market space, especially at the Panamera's rumored pricing. For that money I'd do what Mike (W8MM) is doing, and buy the Flying Spur. Or maybe I'd get the V8 A8L and donate the rest to some worthy cause...but the Bentley seems more likely.

    mcdelaug

    Aug 10, 2005 8:02:53 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: DaveC

    Re: Panamera concept/ where does Porsche go?

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    Past is prologue. No one is going to try and klill the golden goose again. I don't believe the 911 is in any immediate danger and evolution will continue as long as it remains profitable for Porsche to do so. I don't expect too much evolution from the Cayman. This car could have been introduced years ago and despite what Porsche claims, I suspect the development costs were relatively minor. The CaymanS represents for Porsche a balancing act between introducing merely an entry level Boxster coupe (there's already a lot of ho-hum yawns as it is for the S) and sales competition for the 911. IMHO Porsche's goal with the Cayman S is simply to fill a fairly small niche and capture some sales with minimum effort/investment. Although the Cayman's potential is clear, this car is not a sink or swim model like 986 was in 1997, and there is more incentive to limit development at this time than to explore the potential. I see the Panamera as another example of Porsche extending itself into another (profitable) area of the luxury automobile market. The Cayenne has been highly successful and the thinking behind the Panamera is the same. Clearly Porsche has the working capital at this time to invest in the Panamera as a full in house model which will be necessary to attract buyers in the price segment anticipated.



    You took the words right out of my mouth, well said.
     
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