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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It looks like a fun car to drive.  Depending on the price, I'd order one.  Alfa Romeo doesn't sell their cars in the US or Canada though.


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    2012 Cayenne TT, looking for a nice 4-seater sports car to answer my call :)

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Just for reference, it will cost 50.000 GBP, same as a Cayman S PDK. The spec sheet of the Alfa looks better (carbon chassis, low weight) and I suppose all Porsche options will be standard on the Alfa. The Porsche is a proven product in every respect and also fun to drive. It depends on the priorities and preferences.

    Many Italian car lovers, will buy the Alfa as an affordable budget Ferrari.


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It would be truly great to see Alfa Romeo come out from the shadows, as Maserati appear to be doing now. They have a great heritage and in the past have produced some wonderful cars. I fear it will be a real uphill battle to be seen as anything other than poorly built and unreliable badge engineered Fiats though, and here in the UK at least Fiat and Alfa Romeo dealers have a truly awful reputation. Smiley


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    IMO, only VW could have resurrected Alfa Romeo, the way they have done with Skoda, Bentley and Lamborghini.

    I'm afraid FIAT Group have a history of half measures and corner cutting when it comes to their mainstream cars. 

    Alfa used to be a big name until the early 70s and nowadays most young buyers cannot relate to this brand.

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Fiat and even to some point, Lancia and Alfa Romeo, basically ruled the European markets in my younger days (around 1980-1990) with their affordable, nicely designed and interesting models. They ruined that by delivering sub-par quality in return. I had a Fiat 127 Sport, you could basically "shovel" the rust out of it (hidden behind the doors and everywhere, absolutely shocking). I had various Lancia Delta HF Integrale and Lancia Thema Turbo, sometimes part of my racing work but the quality was very bad. The cars were using high quality parts from well known manufacturers (for example the Magneti Marelli ignition system was state of the art at it's time) but all the time, something broke or just seized functioning. The rally cars were of course different but the road cars...well... angry

    I never understood why Fiat and Lancia and Alfa Romoe went down the drain, while Ferrari actually became better and better regarding quality. Maybe Ferrari recruited all the best workers and engineers from Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo?

    What a pity...in my time, it was so hip to drive a Fiat Uno or a Fiat Ritmo and now look where Fiat is...Fiat Doblo. mail


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The Alfa Romeo models of the 60s, like 1750 and 2000 Berlina, Guilia, 1600-2000 GTV and the Spiders were a joy to drive with their twin cam engines, strong brakes, slick gearboxes and superb nimble handling. Lancia also made superb cars sporty and more luxurious like the Fulvia and the Flavia coupes.

    Contemporary BMW like the 1602 and 2002 were solid but very stodgy and in perpetual oversteer. There was no comparison.

    That was a time that everything Italian was wonderful from cinema to music to cars.

    As from the 70s everything went down the drain in Italy politically and economically, including cars. There was also complacency on behalf of FIAT, because pre-EU with substantial import tariffs, 90% of the cars sold in Italy were from the FIAT Group. FIAT was earning big money at the time but they had no incentive to try hard enough. When the market was liberalized FIAT were naked.

    Ferrari is a very interesting case, in that it escaped the Italian decadence. IMO the reasons for that was the legendary F1 team which pulled the road cars up and an inspired manager called  Luca di Montezemolo, who managed to keep the company afloat against the odds. The work that is being done with Maserati is commendable but they have a long way to go to match the German brands and to have consistent profitability for long term survival.


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    Fiat and even to some point, Lancia and Alfa Romeo, basically ruled the European markets in my younger days (around 1980-1990) with their affordable, nicely designed and interesting models. They ruined that by delivering sub-par quality in return. I had a Fiat 127 Sport, you could basically "shovel" the rust out of it (hidden behind the doors and everywhere, absolutely shocking). I had various Lancia Delta HF Integrale and Lancia Thema Turbo, sometimes part of my racing work but the quality was very bad. The cars were using high quality parts from well known manufacturers (for example the Magneti Marelli ignition system was state of the art at it's time) but all the time, something broke or just seized functioning. The rally cars were of course different but the road cars...well... angry

    I never understood why Fiat and Lancia and Alfa Romoe went down the drain, while Ferrari actually became better and better regarding quality. Maybe Ferrari recruited all the best workers and engineers from Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo?

    What a pity...in my time, it was so hip to drive a Fiat Uno or a Fiat Ritmo and now look where Fiat is...Fiat Doblo. mail


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Same here I used to be a real Italian car nut, I've had :-

    1974 AlfaSud 1.2 - white - basic! Rubber floor mats, no carpets and no rev counter!

    1979 AlfaSud 1.3Ti - metallic bronze -magic!! High revving buzzy engine. Quicker and at least it had carpets and a rev counter!

    1980 AlfaSud 1.5 Sprint Veloce - rosso Alfa my best Alfa, wonderful to drive crackle and pop engine

    1982 Alfa Romeo GTV - rosso Alfa - Not a good one, soon got shot of it. Awful gearbox, great engine.

    1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 - black metallic -again not very reliable but could forgive it almost everything for the wonderful engine sound. Awful gearbox!

    1987 Lancia Thema 2.0 i.e. Turbo - petrol blue metallic - dull but reliable.

    1989 Lancia Delta Integrale - rosso -one of my all time greatest ever cars, wonderful but sadly had to go when my daughter was born, not enough room for all the stuff I had to carry round with a baby!

    1990 Alfa Romeo 3.0 V6 Lusso - silver metallic - my last but a truly great car. Travelled all over Europe in it and it never ever went wrong. Really missed its character and flair when I sold it for a BMW 328i coupe in 1995 - which had more troubles than the 164, and two breakdowns.....

     

    I bought a Momo Prototipo steering wheel for the second 'Sud and fitted it on every single car up to the BMW - the airbag era ended that!

    After the 164 the Alfa magic disappeared, made worse when FIAT closed all the wonderful enthusiastic speciailised Alfa dealers and all went under the crappy and disinterested FIAT dealers. The motto of the time "Cuore Sportivo" died. They really did commit suicide.I agree with reginos, Alfa and everything they stood for would have been far better preserved under VW. 

    Long may they return. Smiley


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I used to be an Alfa fanatic too.

    I owned:

    GT Junior 1600, the Bertone body. Excellentu car allround

    Alfasud 1.3 Ti, excellent handling and a buzzy engine. I crashed that car heavily and I was thrown out into a (thankfully soft) field without consequences!

    Alfasud 1.5 Ti. Not as good handling as the 1.3 and with lots of bad quality

    Alfetta GTV 2000. Good high speed handling but  terrible quality and reliability. The worst car I have owned.

    After the GTV, I abandoned the Italian School altogether and started a BMW period which also left me unsatisfied and I next discovered Porsche. 


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Interesting thing is that alfasud engine was made by Porsche))) if I am not wrong...


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    kudryavchik:

    Interesting thing is that alfasud engine was made by Porsche))) if I am not wrong...


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    sportcars-history.com

    Don't think you are correct with that statement, the only similarity to Porsche was the flat engine configuration, decided on by Alfa Romeo to achieve a low bonnet line and the engine was shorter than an in line four. I believe the engine was built in the Pomigliano D'Arco plant south of Naples which was built specifically for the Alfa Sud range.


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The engine was Alfa design. The boxer format allowed the engine to be placed low for a low center of gravity. The only engine Porsche made (officially) was for  SEAT, but that engine was not one Porsche's best efforts.

    I still remember what a wonderful car that Alfasud 1.3 Ti, taking roundabouts flat out at 100-110km/h. However, even in Cyprus with 300 days of sunshine, the Alfasud only lasted 3 years before serious rust started eroding the body. In Northern countries it lasted maybe 12 months. yes

    SEAT_System_Porsche_engine.jpg


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    My first car was a red Seat with a "Porsche" engine kiss


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I owned a mid-1990s Alfa Romeo GTV that spent more time at the dealership than in my garage. I will never own an Alfa and would sooner purchase a GM product.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    BlackSparrow:

    It looks like a fun car to drive.  Depending on the price, I'd order one.  Alfa Romeo doesn't sell their cars in the US or Canada though.

    I believe to have read that Alfa intends to start importing cars to North America soon. Including the 4C.

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    CGX car nut:

    I owned a mid-1990s Alfa Romeo GTV that spent more time at the dealership than in my garage. I will never own an Alfa and would sooner purchase a GM product.

    Prejudice well justified at the time and sadly not yet rescinded - it will take a long time. Skoda suffers the same problem even now years after they stopped making bad cars. Their latest cars are cheaper and more reliable than sister VAG brands Audi or VW, regularly topping the JD Power surveys, but very few Audi or VW buyers would be seen near one! I'm not in the least bit ashamed that I now own an Octavia.


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I wouldn't call Skoda more reliable but owners usually are less pretentious than VW/Audi buyers.

    For personal reasons, I would never get a Skoda, Dacia or Lada but I can see why some people buy these cars. Skoda is really the best "former Warsaw Pact" car in Europe, the Dacia is second best and Lada...well...nothing to write home about at all. angry Trabant, Wartburg, Oltcit, Tatra, Moskwitch and Wolga cars have disappeared...thanks god.  With the exception of the Tatra, I have driven all these cars and I can honestly say that whoever drives them, is nuts (or cannot afford anything else). Horrible horrible automobiles...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Ferdie:
    BlackSparrow:

    It looks like a fun car to drive.  Depending on the price, I'd order one.  Alfa Romeo doesn't sell their cars in the US or Canada though.

    I believe to have read that Alfa intends to start importing cars to North America soon. Including the 4C.

     

    Yes, the 4C is meant to be their first re-entry into NA...


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Watch how a 4C is made:      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz00kWEgSws

    Its pretty amazing little sports car, it might even be fun to drive. Rust? from the materials shown in the build video rust will have to be a dealer installed option.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    dreamcar:
    ! I'm not in the least bit ashamed that I now own an Octavia.

    In Switzerland the Octavia is the number 1 selling car !  The Golf is now in second place.  Scoda does not have a bad reputation here anymore since quite a few years. The price/quality is top notch.


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    I wouldn't call Skoda more reliable but owners usually are less pretentious than VW/Audi buyers.

    For personal reasons, I would never get a Skoda, Dacia or Lada but I can see why some people buy these cars. Skoda is really the best "former Warsaw Pact" car in Europe, the Dacia is second best and Lada...well...nothing to write home about at all. angry Trabant, Wartburg, Oltcit, Tatra, Moskwitch and Wolga cars have disappeared...thanks god.  With the exception of the Tatra, I have driven all these cars and I can honestly say that whoever drives them, is nuts (or cannot afford anything else). Horrible horrible automobiles...

    Oh no, RC has found out that I've bought a Skoda...I could be the shortest ever Rennteam VIP.....Smiley Smiley


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    I wouldn't call Skoda more reliable but owners usually are less pretentious than VW/Audi buyers.

    For personal reasons, I would never get a Skoda, Dacia or Lada but I can see why some people buy these cars. Skoda is really the best "former Warsaw Pact" car in Europe, the Dacia is second best and Lada...well...nothing to write home about at all. angry Trabant, Wartburg, Oltcit, Tatra, Moskwitch and Wolga cars have disappeared...thanks god.  With the exception of the Tatra, I have driven all these cars and I can honestly say that whoever drives them, is nuts (or cannot afford anything else). Horrible horrible automobiles...

    Why this prejudice against Skoda? They had a history before WW2 in cars and during WW2 in military manufacture. In the VW era they are as good as anything from the Group.

    The Yeti is one of my favourite practical cars, but unfortunately their engine/transmission/drive combinations are rather limited. For example, I wanted a 1.6 TDI, DSG with AWD and this car is not produced. You either have to forgo AWD or jump to 2.0 TDI which is expensive. Not very good product planning IMO.

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:
    RC:

    I wouldn't call Skoda more reliable but owners usually are less pretentious than VW/Audi buyers.

    For personal reasons, I would never get a Skoda, Dacia or Lada but I can see why some people buy these cars. Skoda is really the best "former Warsaw Pact" car in Europe, the Dacia is second best and Lada...well...nothing to write home about at all. angry Trabant, Wartburg, Oltcit, Tatra, Moskwitch and Wolga cars have disappeared...thanks god.  With the exception of the Tatra, I have driven all these cars and I can honestly say that whoever drives them, is nuts (or cannot afford anything else). Horrible horrible automobiles...

    Why this prejudice against Skoda? ......The Yeti is one of my favourite practical cars.....

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    "Form follows function"

    Scratch two Rennteam VIP's.......Smiley

    Have to agree with you reginos , I looked long and hard at replacing my trusty Clockwork Rat daily drive for my long commute, came down to the Golf or the equivalent Skoda - decided to ignore badge snobbery, save £3,000 and bought a car with identical oily bits, miles more room and better equipped. Or I could have spent another £5,000 and bought a similarly mechanically identical and cramped Audi A3....Smiley

    Also VW dealers are notoriously arrogant and indifferent towards their customers here in the UK, much like some BMW and certainly Porsche dealerships whereas I was actually treated as a valued customer by Skoda! 

    And to top that Skoda have fared far better in customer satisfaction and reliability surveys (by JD Power) than either of the two more prestigious marques.


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Skoda design is improving too .. the new Octavia estate is stylish and looks premium


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    JimFlat6:

    Watch how a 4C is made:      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz00kWEgSws

    Its pretty amazing little sports car, it might even be fun to drive. Rust? from the materials shown in the build video rust will have to be a dealer installed option.

    Very cool vid!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Skoda isn't Skoda anymore but basically a rebadged Volkswagen (not that Seat is much different and Audi shares some platforms with VW too...like the A3 for example). I didn't like Skoda in the past because it was a very bad car (well, compared to Dacia, Oltcit and even Trabant or Moskwitch, it was top notch but compared to Western cars...no comment). Of course this has change since VW took over Skoda but while technically, the cars are as good or as bad as the other VW/Audi counterparts, I do not like the design at all,  a design I call "eastern melancholia". 

    I am sorry but I saw tons of the older Skoda models (see photos) in my work days behind the iron curtain, so I kind of developed some sort of antipathy against Skoda, Dacia, Lada and all the others... yes

    4965350888_eb9daa811d.jpg

    SKODA-Favorit--1994-1995-.jpg

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Not all skodas were bad. They have also built some amazing cars like Skoda 1100 OHC and GT, which are immortal classics. i believe it is not fair to compare Skoda with moskvitch, volga, vaz and etc. its a different tier brand. 


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    Skoda isn't Skoda anymore but basically a rebadged Volkswagen (not that Seat is much different and Audi shares some platforms with VW too...like the A3 for example). I didn't like Skoda in the past because it was a very bad car (well, compared to Dacia, Oltcit and even Trabant or Moskwitch, it was top notch but compared to Western cars...no comment). Of course this has change since VW took over Skoda but while technically, the cars are as good or as bad as the other VW/Audi counterparts, I do not like the design at all,  a design I call "eastern melancholia". 

    I am sorry but I saw tons of the older Skoda models (see photos) in my work days behind the iron curtain, so I kind of developed some sort of antipathy against Skoda, Dacia, Lada and all the others... yes

    You forgot Polski FIAT, Zastawa and Volga

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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Fehler in allen teilen (fiat) is a crap even today))) Also in USSR we had premium pobeda and zil. Budget car was Zaporozhec, fellow brother of 911)))


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    You want the ultimate bad car? The Alfa Romeo Arna. Japanese driving misery and styling combined with Italian electrics and build quality......mail

     

    394_Alfa-Romeo-Arna_3.jpg--

     

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    We Brits managed an almighty cock-up as well, a lot more recently. How about this - the City Rover. Backward Indian car which Rover tried to sell at BMW Mini prices......Smiley

    1371576057669city rover.jpg


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


     
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