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    991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    After driving the Porsche turbo s, McLaren 650s and Ferrari 488 in direct comparison I wanted to share my personal impressions:

     

    McLaren 650s

    In general, I was not 100% convinced with the refinement of this product (that is to say: in direct comparison with the other cars mentioned above, the McLaren as such is a wonderful product, of course, but here we compare it to the best in class).

    Issues included more major topics like strange/”sticky” steering feel around center position (car was on PZero tires), interaction of gear-box and throttle (too slow on downshifts, too slow on upshifts), and suspension in normal mode (very soft and indifferent, more like a sedan than a sports car).

    Smaller issues included flabby mechanical feel of the throttle (the pedal just felt strange), brake feel, outdated nav system, mediocre sound system (despite the car having the premium sound system McLaren offers), seats, entry to the car.

    The design of the car is special and the engine sound is very present. I like the concept of the 488 better thought – the 488 can be driven very quietly but you can also have all the sound you would like to have.

    The 650s excels when driven fast in sports mode, with manual gear shifts on bended roads or the track. In these moments the car feels very light and cart like (even more so than the 488, maybe). Also, under comparable conditions the 650s is about 4s faster than the turbo s 0-300kph. I did not GPS test the 488 but based on what I felt and read in the press it should be somewhere in the range of the 650s.

    Having had a lot of interest in these performance figures in the past I have to admit that you can hardly feel these differences any more without a GPS device (or a competing car in front of you…). That’s why these numbers are less interesting to me than all the other pros/cons summarized here. These pros/cons make the real difference between these cars – performance is very similar, also very much depending on weather/road conditions etc.

     

    Ferrari 488

    A wonderful product. I was a bit shocked to realize how good it is…

    The turbo engine is just wonderful to drive in combination with the gear-box. I would say: same level of refinement as in the turbo s (and much better than in the 650s). Of course, the 488 has this wonderful engine sound (when you want it – the car can also be driven “noiseless” like a turbo s). The steering (car had PZero tires as well) is much more direct around center position than in the turbo s (I don’t think this is an advantage but it still feels very good). Super precise and nice mechanical feel. Brake feel is a bit less sensitive than on the turbo s – typical Ferrari ceramic brakes. The suspension is great – super comfortable in wet mode – and yet you do not have any softness/imprecision when driving quickly. The car feels and handles very nimble and feels lighter than the turbo s. All wonderful.

    Nav system is Ok – but Apple Car Play solves all problems. The sound system is not as good as the Burmester in the turbo s but also excellent. Seats are great (but not as good as in the turbo s), entry to the car is great. Build quality of the interior is still a bit below turbo s level (more cracking noises) but overall look & feel is excellent. And the interior design is amazing.

    The 488 is a wonderful product. Just amazing.

     

    turbo s

    Now comes the difficult part. The turbo s is as amazing as the 488 but different…

    Of course, the car looks and sounds more normal (interior design included). But then every detail is done just so nicely! The AWD is such a huge step forward when you want to use the car in colder temperature or even on wet roads (the 488 sometimes has traction issues coming out of corners even when it is dry…). The interaction of gearbox and engine is super refined (488 is approximately on the same level).

    The suspension has this unique Porsche mix of softness, heaviness and precision. It is just a treat whenever you drive it. Brake feel is best in class and steering is also best in class (together with the 488 – although the steering of the 488 feels totally different as written above). Handling is just impeccable under all conditions.

    The navigation and the sound system are the benchmark.

    The turbo s is a product so refined and so lovely to drive on a daily basis but also in these very special moments on beautiful roads with beautiful weather.

     

    Conclusion

    Personally, I would think that the combination of turbo s and Ferari 488 might be ideal. Both cars, in summary, operate on this level of refinement and driving pleasure that is not easy to achieve… And both cars would be used as you can just enjoy either right after driving the other. These products do set the standard in this segment.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Thanks for sharing, Markus. kiss This is why I always said that Porsche needs a "960"...

    In my opinion, Ferrari has been very clever with the 488, unlike Porsche with the 991 Turbo S. In my opinion, Porsche put the gain margins over customer satisfaction, even if the 991.1 and 991.2 Turbo S models aren't slow. I still think that they are way "behind" the 488, especially when it comes to the interior and straight line performance.

    To compete with cars like the 488 and 650S, Porsche needs a mid engined super sportscar. It is called R8  but unfortunately, it belongs to the wrong brand and power is not competitive versus the 488 and 650S, something neither Audi nor Lamborghini were aware of when they first put the Huracan on the market.

    Ferrari and McLaren certainly upped the game. The current V10 engine is good for around 650 hp without major mods and to be frank, I do not think that we are going to see a version with over 650 hp, like ever because the next R8 generation, if there will be one, will not get this type of engine anymore, sad as it is. Actually, I think it will die at Lamborghini as well, I see new Biturbo V8 engines on the horizon and I'm not really pleased, even if these engines will definitely be capable of delivering more than 650 hp.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    RC:

    Thanks for sharing, Markus. kiss This is why I always said that Porsche needs a "960"...

    In my opinion, Ferrari has been very clever with the 488, unlike Porsche with the 991 Turbo S. In my opinion, Porsche put the gain margins over customer satisfaction, even if the 991.1 and 991.2 Turbo S models aren't slow. I still think that they are way "behind" the 488, especially when it comes to the interior and straight line performance.

    To compete with cars like the 488 and 650S, Porsche needs a mid engined super sportscar. It is called R8  but unfortunately, it belongs to the wrong brand and power is not competitive versus the 488 and 650S, something neither Audi nor Lamborghini were aware of when they first put the Huracan on the market.

    Ferrari and McLaren certainly upped the game. The current V10 engine is good for around 650 hp without major mods and to be frank, I do not think that we are going to see a version with over 650 hp, like ever because the next R8 generation, if there will be one, will not get this type of engine anymore, sad as it is. Actually, I think it will die at Lamborghini as well, I see new Biturbo V8 engines on the horizon and I'm not really pleased, even if these engines will definitely be capable of delivering more than 650 hp.

    Regarding the 960 you are thinking of buyers who would then like both the turbo s and the 960?

    Not sure about your verdict on the turbo s in comparison to the 488, though. My conclusion is that I cannot say which product is better... Both are different. And both are the best... Not sure if Porsche needs to change much but add some more power. The turbo s is very, very competitive product even with just 580hp. The rest is more a matter of taste I would argue Smiley

    Also, I don't quite agree that McLaren put much pressure on Porsche. Comparing the products today it seems there is still a lot of distance to cover for McLaren (also compared to Ferrari) Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Markus, thanks for your detailed report!  I am (positively) surprised about our extremely favorable opinion on the 488, since I have read many negative opinions on Ferraris since your 599GTB experience. kiss I assume the Turbo S is your personal cabriolet, while the 488GTB tested is the Coupe?


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    RC:

    Thanks for sharing, Markus. kiss This is why I always said that Porsche needs a "960"...

    In my opinion, Ferrari has been very clever with the 488, unlike Porsche with the 991 Turbo S. In my opinion, Porsche put the gain margins over customer satisfaction, even if the 991.1 and 991.2 Turbo S models aren't slow. I still think that they are way "behind" the 488, especially when it comes to the interior and straight line performance.

    To compete with cars like the 488 and 650S, Porsche needs a mid engined super sportscar. It is called R8  but unfortunately, it belongs to the wrong brand and power is not competitive versus the 488 and 650S, something neither Audi nor Lamborghini were aware of when they first put the Huracan on the market.

    Ferrari and McLaren certainly upped the game. The current V10 engine is good for around 650 hp without major mods and to be frank, I do not think that we are going to see a version with over 650 hp, like ever because the next R8 generation, if there will be one, will not get this type of engine anymore, sad as it is. Actually, I think it will die at Lamborghini as well, I see new Biturbo V8 engines on the horizon and I'm not really pleased, even if these engines will definitely be capable of delivering more than 650 hp.

    Thanks RC for steering the topic back to the R8. Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Ziggy:
    RC:

    Thanks for sharing, Markus. kiss This is why I always said that Porsche needs a "960"...

    In my opinion, Ferrari has been very clever with the 488, unlike Porsche with the 991 Turbo S. In my opinion, Porsche put the gain margins over customer satisfaction, even if the 991.1 and 991.2 Turbo S models aren't slow. I still think that they are way "behind" the 488, especially when it comes to the interior and straight line performance.

    To compete with cars like the 488 and 650S, Porsche needs a mid engined super sportscar. It is called R8  but unfortunately, it belongs to the wrong brand and power is not competitive versus the 488 and 650S, something neither Audi nor Lamborghini were aware of when they first put the Huracan on the market.

    Ferrari and McLaren certainly upped the game. The current V10 engine is good for around 650 hp without major mods and to be frank, I do not think that we are going to see a version with over 650 hp, like ever because the next R8 generation, if there will be one, will not get this type of engine anymore, sad as it is. Actually, I think it will die at Lamborghini as well, I see new Biturbo V8 engines on the horizon and I'm not really pleased, even if these engines will definitely be capable of delivering more than 650 hp.

    Thanks RC for steering the topic back to the R8. Smiley

    I'm good, right? Smiley

    On a more serious note: The R8 is everything I was always looking for in the 911 Turbo or any Porsche for that matter, as weird as this may sound. This is why I'm so upset that there is no 960. I get it, it was too late to use a common platform and Porsche probably didn't want to put a 960 on the market which is based on the R8 Smiley but... Smiley

    Regarding what Markus said about the 488 and the 991.2 Turbo S: Performance-wise, the 991.2 Turbo S stands no chance against the 488 and we all know that. Numbers only maybe but this is a fact. The interior and the design of the 488 are also miles ahead of the 991.2 Turbo S and I'm not talking about quality or the entertainment system but design and looks. The 488 looks and feels like a super sportscar, the 991.2 Turbo S looks and feels like a...911...or even Boxster (interior). 

    Maybe this comparison shows what I mean (first Ferrari, last Porsche). Both look great and desirable but...

    beautiful-blonde-wallpaper-24.jpg

    ashlee_beautiful_blonde_1600x1200.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    no..kiss..

    And the Volvo?. Where is that pic..


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Thank you Markus for your detailed report, I appreciate those personal impressions very much, much more than some "tests" in car magazines. kiss

    By any chance, did you have a chance to try a Hurracán as well and compare it to the other three?

    Note: I wrote Hurracán, not R8. smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    throt:

    no..kiss..

    And the Volvo?. Where is that pic..

    That's why I prefer the Volvo. The Ferrari is just unnaturally way too much and the Porsche is colorless & utmost boring. The Volvo just gives the comfortable pleasure being on the safe side, wherever you take it Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Markus - great report. Very interesting to read this direct comparison. Never thought that the McLaren misses that much the refinement. I would have expected much more emotions from UK.  Regarding the Ferrari - I was astonished that you write that they are operating on the refinement level of Porsche.  And third surprise - that the Porsche is still exciting, especially for you, a guy driving 911 since many years and knowing every corner and itch of it. Again - great details & great read!

     


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Ziggy:

    Markus, thanks for your detailed report!  I am (positively) surprised about our extremely favorable opinion on the 488, since I have read many negative opinions on Ferraris since your 599GTB experience. kiss I assume the Turbo S is your personal cabriolet, while the 488GTB tested is the Coupe?

    I was surprised too Smiley Did not expect this outcome. 

    You are right, the turbo s is a convertible. The 488 was also a spider. I will most likely get this car (488 Spider) as I liked it so much. Unexpected outcome of a test drive Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    RC:
    Regarding what Markus said about the 488 and the 991.2 Turbo S: Performance-wise, the 991.2 Turbo S stands no chance against the 488 and we all know that.

    The thing is: even a shorter drive shows you that the performance is (slightly) better under ideal circumstances but probably rarely in real life (traction). Also, the effect is so small that it is questionable if it really makes a difference... For me it would not justify a buying decision.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    BTW, I like the second picture better Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Rossi:

    Thank you Markus for your detailed report, I appreciate those personal impressions very much, much more than some "tests" in car magazines. kiss

    By any chance, did you have a chance to try a Hurracán as well and compare it to the other three?

    Note: I wrote Hurracán, not R8. smiley

    No, not yet. It seems we need to continue with the Huracan and the R8 (even more important) Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Lars997:

    Markus - great report. Very interesting to read this direct comparison. Never thought that the McLaren misses that much the refinement. I would have expected much more emotions from UK.  Regarding the Ferrari - I was astonished that you write that they are operating on the refinement level of Porsche.  And third surprise - that the Porsche is still exciting, especially for you, a guy driving 911 since many years and knowing every corner and itch of it. Again - great details & great read!

     

    You know what is best: that you can enter the turbo s after driving the 488 and you just love how the turbo s feels. And at the same time you remember what a lovely car the 488 is. This is rare (in my experience), to have two (or even more cars) that you love to use in parallel. In the past I experienced that you often find yourself preferring one car and having the other sit in the garage much too often, if you know what I mean...


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Markus,

    Great report. It almost mirrors my personal findings. 

    Just for me the best "feel" sportscar or call it drivers tool is 991 GT3 RS. Yes, it is in straight line slower then either 991.2 Turbo S or 488 but, it offers more drivers pleasure, at least for me. It is also less practical but, I do not care too much since true sportscar is not the only car in the most owners garage.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    MKSGR:
    Ziggy:

    Markus, thanks for your detailed report!  I am (positively) surprised about our extremely favorable opinion on the 488, since I have read many negative opinions on Ferraris since your 599GTB experience. kiss I assume the Turbo S is your personal cabriolet, while the 488GTB tested is the Coupe?

    I was surprised too Smiley Did not expect this outcome. 

    You are right, the turbo s is a convertible. The 488 was also a spider. I will most likely get this car (488 Spider) as I liked it so much. Unexpected outcome of a test drive Smiley

    You seem to enjoy using your sportscars on a daily basis.  How would you assess the validity of the 488 as a daily driver? 


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Markus, thanks for the write up! Very interesting read this comparison kiss wink

    RC, buddy thanks for keeping it real with the R8 reference and photos of blondes.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    What is more amazing is a car enthusiast in Europe decides he wants a 488 Spider and he can order one almost immediately. Unless you're a good client of Ferrari, in the US you're looking at least 2-3 years before being able to order one.cheeky


    --

    One of history's few iron laws is that luxuries tend to become necessities and to spawn new obligations.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    nberry:

    What is more amazing is a car enthusiast in Europe decides he wants a 488 Spider and he can order one almost immediately. Unless you're a good client of Ferrari, in the US you're looking at least 2-3 years before being able to order one.cheeky

    Trump will fix that! SmileySmiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    MKSGR:

    Conclusion

    Personally, I would think that the combination of turbo s and Ferari 488 might be ideal. Both cars, in summary, operate on this level of refinement and driving pleasure that is not easy to achieve… And both cars would be used as you can just enjoy either right after driving the other. These products do set the standard in this segment.

    I think you summed it up well. If you recall I described the 488 as the "Turbo S of the exotic segment". It really depends on personal circumstances whether one picks the Porsche or the Ferrari if forced to chose only one.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    KresoF1:

    Markus,

    Great report. It almost mirrors my personal findings. 

    Just for me the best "feel" sportscar or call it drivers tool is 991 GT3 RS. Yes, it is in straight line slower then either 991.2 Turbo S or 488 but, it offers more drivers pleasure, at least for me. It is also less practical but, I do not care too much since true sportscar is not the only car in the most owners garage.

    Kreso, could be true. I must admit that I did not drive the GT3RS yet Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Ziggy:
    MKSGR:
    Ziggy:

    Markus, thanks for your detailed report!  I am (positively) surprised about our extremely favorable opinion on the 488, since I have read many negative opinions on Ferraris since your 599GTB experience. kiss I assume the Turbo S is your personal cabriolet, while the 488GTB tested is the Coupe?

    I was surprised too Smiley Did not expect this outcome. 

    You are right, the turbo s is a convertible. The 488 was also a spider. I will most likely get this car (488 Spider) as I liked it so much. Unexpected outcome of a test drive Smiley

    You seem to enjoy using your sportscars on a daily basis.  How would you assess the validity of the 488 as a daily driver? 

    I would think the biggest downside is traction in wet, cold or even winterly conditions. The rest should be pretty much Ok, assuming a reliability comparable to the Porsche Smiley It is just convenient to know that the turbo on winter tires will take you everywhere!


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    bluelines:

    Markus, thanks for the write up! Very interesting read this comparison kiss wink

    RC, buddy thanks for keeping it real with the R8 reference and photos of blondes.

    These pictures RC posted will upgrade every thread Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    nberry:

    What is more amazing is a car enthusiast in Europe decides he wants a 488 Spider and he can order one almost immediately. Unless you're a good client of Ferrari, in the US you're looking at least 2-3 years before being able to order one.cheeky

    You can order it immediately, but delivery time is about 12-18 months Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    crayphile:
    MKSGR:

    Conclusion

    Personally, I would think that the combination of turbo s and Ferari 488 might be ideal. Both cars, in summary, operate on this level of refinement and driving pleasure that is not easy to achieve… And both cars would be used as you can just enjoy either right after driving the other. These products do set the standard in this segment.

    I think you summed it up well. If you recall I described the 488 as the "Turbo S of the exotic segment". It really depends on personal circumstances whether one picks the Porsche or the Ferrari if forced to chose only one.

    Totally right & perfect summary Smiley


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Thanks Markus for this first hand comparison . It s priceless  . 

    Ferrari has come a long way , if now it is nearly as good to drive then the Turbo S ( expect for the AWD advantage in bad conditions )

    Then a 911, will always be easier to drive anywhere because no one really minds them  ( so much less aggressive and in your face then a Ferrari ) 

    I see now a few 488 drive around  . I am not a fan of the shape , only maybe in back .

    I am a bit disappointed by your 650S impressions . I like that car .  But I have also come to realize , that I will not be happy unless I get the more ' racy' cars in any segment ( RS, LT, Speciale )

    For a DD , I would get the Turbo S 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Gnil:

    I am a bit disappointed by your 650S impressions . I like that car .  But I have also come to realize , that I will not be happy unless I get the more ' racy' cars in any segment ( RS, LT, Speciale )

    For a DD , I would get the Turbo S 

    Remember, 650S is really from 2011. A 650S is a better assembled 12C with less gremlins and a little extra torque for a drag race. Half the people who drive a 12C will drive a 650S and not notice any difference.


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    Nice report, as other mention, much better than car magazines Smiley.

    Didn´t expect the 650S opinion to be so bad, this car has been receiving the best comments from the press and most important, from owners ! 


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: 991.2 turbo s - Ferrari 488 - McLaren 650s

    RC:

    Maybe this comparison shows what I mean (first Ferrari, last Porsche). Both look great and desirable but...

    beautiful-blonde-wallpaper-24.jpg

    ashlee_beautiful_blonde_1600x1200.jpg

    Hummm...I still prefer the exotic look and sound of a Lambo  Smiley


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


     
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