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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    boytronic:

    It looks like the 997 GTS has been reincarnated as the 991 GT3. If you want the real race car experience you have to buy the RS - or a Cup car!

     

    Even the RS isn't safe for the moment... We may have to bare witness to a marketing campain with the slogan "The new 991 RS- Destination: Cars and Coffee"... SmileySmiley

    We can only pray and hope that the RS won't suffer the same fate boytronic! Fingers crossed hey!  Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I did not track my Ferrari's but tracked my Porsche's. Both are drivers cars but given the substantial difference in price one can understand why the Ferrari is not tracked. FWIW, based on my experience of owning both brands, to truly enjoy the driving experience in a Porsche you need to get it to the limit. Not so with the Ferrari.Smiley

    AND yes I am very sensitive to depreciation. I have better ways to spend my money.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Budster:

    I also enjoy Kreso and RC's posts but find the odd "inside scoop" occasionally unconvincing.  Just occasionally mind you.  Gotta go now: I'm meeting my best friend's brother's wife's landscape gardener's child's teacher's au pair: her mother's physiotherapists 2nd cousin works at Porsche.  Watch this space.

    The problem is that some people here on this forum are deeply involved with the car industry (suppliers, manufacturers, etc.) or the automobile press. You would be surprised. Exposing sources would not only be unprofessional, it would put jobs at risk. So I prefer you and others to find our posts unconvincing rather than having somebody getting fired for your reading pleasure. 

    Cheers. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    artur777:

    I am pretty sure Porsche has solved all the matters on GT3. It's too late to change 2-3 weeks before release.

    The GT3 is ready to go, there is nothing to be changed anymore (minus some very minor details).

    Speaking of "the 991 not selling well" (I don't see that) or "being overpriced": The 991 has become quite expensive, indeed and I am pretty sure that a well specced 991 Turbo will hit the 200k EUR mark, which would probably be a first. I also heard that the GT3 and especially GT3 RS got a substantial bump in price tag, if true. 

    Why should I lie? I find the 991 to be expensive, most of the 991 show cars at my dealer cost over 135k EUR, this was 997 Turbo territory back in 2006. It isn't difficult to spec a 991 Carrera 4S to over 150k EUR, this is how much my former 997 Turbo costed me, incl. PCCB.

    On the other hand, my wife's X3 35d, a BMW Diesel SUV, one of the smaller models, costs almost 80k EUR new. I paid much less (around 60k EUR) for my first 911, a 993 Targa back in 1997 and it was brand new, at a special price.

    I think we don't pay attention to the prices of other cars too much because in reality, all car prices have been gone up over the past couple of years.

    I too think that Porsche sells the 991 way too expensive but the problem isn't necessarily the base price tag but the options you need to add to be happy with the car. Performance options, maybe minus the PCCB, should be for free. We are talking about a Porsche here, not a Mercedes. Some options should also be free, I would charge only for extra leather and special color combos. My Panamera Turbo S has options for over 50k EUR in it, this is way too much.

    Long story short: Porsche needs to be careful with their prices because at some point, customers could switch the brand. The competition has become very strong and like we say here in Germany, "other mothers have  beautiful daughters too". Nothing more to add. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
     

    really? if so - rennteam is probably not the best choice for this? Why? because rennteam is s small forum..there are a few - long term - members here. This is good..but for a big organisation, the number of opinions expressed here are "statistically irrelevant"....if 1000 different opinions were expressed here..

    By the way, a smal forum has its charme..thats why many are probably here..

    Young padawan, you are too naive about this forum. 

    Rennteam has more close ties with Porsche than you might imagine. See the tag under my handle? You don't even have a tag. And I think I am considered a 'newcomer', you would do well learning your place in the pecking order.

    I am members of numerous boards but this is the only one that I really engage myself. The other ones are for amateurs. This is where the pros talk and where people find real info, not something a 13 yr old dream of in bed. 

    Unlike other forums, we are not populated with showoffs, which is why the community is small.

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    As far as I heard the official reveal of 991 GT3 will be at 5th March 2013.

    Soon we will know the truth about price. But I agree with you that 991 cars costs about 10-20% more than 997.2 if specced with the same options. The inflation of price.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:
    artur777:

    I am pretty sure Porsche has solved all the matters on GT3. It's too late to change 2-3 weeks before release.

    The GT3 is ready to go, there is nothing to be changed anymore (minus some very minor details).

    Speaking of "the 991 not selling well" (I don't see that) or "being overpriced": The 991 has become quite expensive, indeed and I am pretty sure that a well specced 991 Turbo will hit the 200k EUR mark, which would probably be a first. I also heard that the GT3 and especially GT3 RS got a substantial bump in price tag, if true. 

    Why should I lie? I find the 991 to be expensive, most of the 991 show cars at my dealer cost over 135k EUR, this was 997 Turbo territory back in 2006. It isn't difficult to spec a 991 Carrera 4S to over 150k EUR, this is how much my former 997 Turbo costed me, incl. PCCB.

    On the other hand, my wife's X3 35d, a BMW Diesel SUV, one of the smaller models, costs almost 80k EUR new. I paid much less (around 60k EUR) for my first 911, a 993 Targa back in 1997 and it was brand new, at a special price.

    I think we don't pay attention to the prices of other cars too much because in reality, all car prices have been gone up over the past couple of years.

    I too think that Porsche sells the 991 way too expensive but the problem isn't necessarily the base price tag but the options you need to add to be happy with the car. Performance options, maybe minus the PCCB, should be for free. We are talking about a Porsche here, not a Mercedes. Some options should also be free, I would charge only for extra leather and special color combos. My Panamera Turbo S has options for over 50k EUR in it, this is way too much.

    Long story short: Porsche needs to be careful with their prices because at some point, customers could switch the brand. The competition has become very strong and like we say here in Germany, "other mothers have  beautiful daughters too". Nothing more to add. 

     Hi RC,

    Fully agree - noone should expose - or take the risk of exposing sources. Fully agree. There was just some misunderstanding regarding "kreso´s use of the english language"..- but dont worry - everything is under control...Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    GTlover:
     

    really? if so - rennteam is probably not the best choice for this? Why? because rennteam is s small forum..there are a few - long term - members here. This is good..but for a big organisation, the number of opinions expressed here are "statistically irrelevant"....if 1000 different opinions were expressed here..

    By the way, a smal forum has its charme..thats why many are probably here..

    Young padawan, you are too naive about this forum. 

    Rennteam has more close ties with Porsche than you might imagine. See the tag under my handle? You don't even have a tag. And I think I am considered a 'newcomer', you would do well learning your place in the pecking order.

    I am members of numerous boards but this is the only one that I really engage myself. The other ones are for amateurs. This is where the pros talk and where people find real info, not something a 13 yr old dream of in bed. 

    Unlike other forums, we are not populated with showoffs, which is why the community is small.

     

     .sorry but..you think you can decide/shape - Porsches products through your voice here? One of the main source of Porsche for getting information "on customer satisfaction" is  by being in constant contact with the Porsche centres who give them feedback, or by directly asking - sending questionnaires - to current owners. Plus there are so many other means..Rennteam is just one of the puzzle pieces..you are right that I maybe dont know how big this puzzle piece is - but what I know for sure is that the puzzle is made of many pieces - and not just one. And yes, believe it or not..I also know 2-3 people working directly with the manufacturer..but you dont need to be super smart to to realise that there are many streams of information.

    PS: The rest of your post..dont feel like commeting it.. I own a 997 GT2 CS, 2008 WP0ZZZ99Z8S794703..so most probably Im at least 18 to able to drive it..

    Lets get back to the real subject of this thread..Smiley

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:
    artur777:

    I am pretty sure Porsche has solved all the matters on GT3. It's too late to change 2-3 weeks before release.

    The GT3 is ready to go, there is nothing to be changed anymore (minus some very minor details).

    Speaking of "the 991 not selling well" (I don't see that) or "being overpriced": The 991 has become quite expensive, indeed and I am pretty sure that a well specced 991 Turbo will hit the 200k EUR mark, which would probably be a first. I also heard that the GT3 and especially GT3 RS got a substantial bump in price tag, if true. 

    Why should I lie? I find the 991 to be expensive, most of the 991 show cars at my dealer cost over 135k EUR, this was 997 Turbo territory back in 2006. It isn't difficult to spec a 991 Carrera 4S to over 150k EUR, this is how much my former 997 Turbo costed me, incl. PCCB.

    On the other hand, my wife's X3 35d, a BMW Diesel SUV, one of the smaller models, costs almost 80k EUR new. I paid much less (around 60k EUR) for my first 911, a 993 Targa back in 1997 and it was brand new, at a special price.

    I think we don't pay attention to the prices of other cars too much because in reality, all car prices have been gone up over the past couple of years.

    I too think that Porsche sells the 991 way too expensive but the problem isn't necessarily the base price tag but the options you need to add to be happy with the car. Performance options, maybe minus the PCCB, should be for free. We are talking about a Porsche here, not a Mercedes. Some options should also be free, I would charge only for extra leather and special color combos. My Panamera Turbo S has options for over 50k EUR in it, this is way too much.

    Long story short: Porsche needs to be careful with their prices because at some point, customers could switch the brand. The competition has become very strong and like we say here in Germany, "other mothers have  beautiful daughters too". Nothing more to add. 

    Hi  RC,

    I share the same feeling..the 991 is "too expensive"..at new price. However, once they are second hand, the come down pretty quickly to acceptable/traditional 911 price levels. The real question is rather, will customers in the long run accept this increased - and considerable, depreciation. Panamera, Cayenne, 981 boxster and caymen ..dont seem to have these massive depreciation..cayenne and panamera are probably the most stable Porsche..financially...and this is maybe a small irony..as Porsche keeps promoting the idea that the 911 is its backbone..yes..but the SUVs are better in second hand value..

    We will see..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    http://www.motorauthority.com/image/100419455_2014-porsche-911-gt3-spy-shots


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    GTlover:
     

    really? if so - rennteam is probably not the best choice for this? Why? because rennteam is s small forum..there are a few - long term - members here. This is good..but for a big organisation, the number of opinions expressed here are "statistically irrelevant"....if 1000 different opinions were expressed here..

    By the way, a smal forum has its charme..thats why many are probably here..

    Young padawan, you are too naive about this forum. 

    Rennteam has more close ties with Porsche than you might imagine. See the tag under my handle? You don't even have a tag. And I think I am considered a 'newcomer', you would do well learning your place in the pecking order.

    I am members of numerous boards but this is the only one that I really engage myself. The other ones are for amateurs. This is where the pros talk and where people find real info, not something a 13 yr old dream of in bed. 

    Unlike other forums, we are not populated with showoffs, which is why the community is small.

     

    With the greatest of respect, you have completely contradicted and discredited yourself with this post... If you think a post count and title beneath your user name makes you more qualified than others, you are sooooo sadly mistaken... 

    Porsche may glance at Rennteam and other forums from time to time but if I were Porsche, i'd be placing greater emphasis on the thoughts and opinions of my customers whom I know before the opinions of randoms on forums hiding behind user names who's demographics (age, education, employment, financial status) are indeterminable... Certainly wouldn't be taking development suggestions from people on a forum that could be 16 years of age or 75 for that matter!

    No forum (rennteam included) is going to be the basis or a resource for development  of new products... The market place, the competition and the company direction dictated by those at the top shapes the future of brands with potential customers spoken to for reaction...

    Take the GT3 as an example, I'd love to be able to blame you and your 3000+ post count for having shaped what is panning out to be an overpriced disaster BUT reality tells me that some greedy bean counters high up in Porsche who want to increase margins by a further 10% and pressure from the competition which suggests you're slow unless you're driving a double clutch box are the real culprits for the "glorified and overpriced GTS" we will be presented in a couple of weeks...SmileySmiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    nberry:

    I did not track my Ferrari's but tracked my Porsche's. Both are drivers cars but given the substantial difference in price one can understand why the Ferrari is not tracked. FWIW, based on my experience of owning both brands, to truly enjoy the driving experience in a Porsche you need to get it to the limit. Not so with the Ferrari.Smiley

    AND yes I am very sensitive to depreciation. I have better ways to spend my money.Smiley

    Thank you for your reply.

    At what speed level do you start enjoying your Ferrari? Many people I've come across enjoy them when parked outside social spots and some at walking pace playing with the throttle because of the loud exhaust note.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    isn't it ironic, in the UK at least, that the Cayenne Diesel has the best residual value of the entire Porsche range .. by far!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
    RC:
    artur777:

    I am pretty sure Porsche has solved all the matters on GT3. It's too late to change 2-3 weeks before release.

    The GT3 is ready to go, there is nothing to be changed anymore (minus some very minor details).

    Speaking of "the 991 not selling well" (I don't see that) or "being overpriced": The 991 has become quite expensive, indeed and I am pretty sure that a well specced 991 Turbo will hit the 200k EUR mark, which would probably be a first. I also heard that the GT3 and especially GT3 RS got a substantial bump in price tag, if true. 

    Why should I lie? I find the 991 to be expensive, most of the 991 show cars at my dealer cost over 135k EUR, this was 997 Turbo territory back in 2006. It isn't difficult to spec a 991 Carrera 4S to over 150k EUR, this is how much my former 997 Turbo costed me, incl. PCCB.

    On the other hand, my wife's X3 35d, a BMW Diesel SUV, one of the smaller models, costs almost 80k EUR new. I paid much less (around 60k EUR) for my first 911, a 993 Targa back in 1997 and it was brand new, at a special price.

    I think we don't pay attention to the prices of other cars too much because in reality, all car prices have been gone up over the past couple of years.

    I too think that Porsche sells the 991 way too expensive but the problem isn't necessarily the base price tag but the options you need to add to be happy with the car. Performance options, maybe minus the PCCB, should be for free. We are talking about a Porsche here, not a Mercedes. Some options should also be free, I would charge only for extra leather and special color combos. My Panamera Turbo S has options for over 50k EUR in it, this is way too much.

    Long story short: Porsche needs to be careful with their prices because at some point, customers could switch the brand. The competition has become very strong and like we say here in Germany, "other mothers have  beautiful daughters too". Nothing more to add. 

    Hi  RC,

    I share the same feeling..the 991 is "too expensive"..at new price. However, once they are second hand, the come down pretty quickly to acceptable/traditional 911 price levels. The real question is rather, will customers in the long run accept this increased - and considerable, depreciation. Panamera, Cayenne, 981 boxster and caymen ..dont seem to have these massive depreciation..cayenne and panamera are probably the most stable Porsche..financially...and this is maybe a small irony..as Porsche keeps promoting the idea that the 911 is its backbone..yes..but the SUVs are better in second hand value..

    We will see..

    IMO, the underlying difference here between the pricing with the 991 and previous models at play fellas is "VW"... 

    The reality is that as far as the world economy is concerned, it is the wrong time to increase prices by 10-20% but VW have invested billions to buy Porsche and want returns on their investment... They figure that if they can charge twice that plus for a lambo or audi etc and in many respects the 911 has been the benchmark by which many sportscars are judged for performance, why not increase the price accordingly... What they forget is that they can't undo all of the conservative Porsche pricing of 50 years over one model series and I feel their arrogance on this point will cost them customers and hurt the Porsche brand they have acquired...

    Ultimately Porsche are responsible for their predicament since they tried to buy out VW, failed and were acquired themselves... 

    As for VW, a smart company would study their newly acquired asset, learn how they mange to generate one of the highest margins on product and try to apply it to the rest of the brands under its umbrella for better returns rather than flogging a dead horse and going for yet higher margins from a brand already returning so well...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    will be tough to justify 200k euro for a 991 turbo. I know it will be amazing etc etc but I would probably buy a 1-2 year old MP4 for 130-140k gbp here in the uk.. That car will most likely be even more powerful thorugh more updates by the time new 458/991tt etc etc hit the market.

    P will face intense pressure at these prices. It looks like a rebranding exercise to me for Porsche trying to maybe become more exclusive with the 991.

    And I think they will "succeed"! There will certainly be a lot less of them on the street


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    ^^^ Agreed!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GT:

    will be tough to justify 200k euro for a 991 turbo. I know it will be amazing etc etc but I would probably buy a 1-2 year old MP4 for 130-140k gbp here in the uk.. That car will most likely be even more powerful thorugh more updates by the time new 458/991tt etc etc hit the market.

    P will face intense pressure at these prices. It looks like a rebranding exercise to me for Porsche trying to maybe become more exclusive with the 991.

    And I think they will "succeed"! There will certainly be a lot less of them on the street

    You are comparing new vs old. A 2 year old 991 Turbo will also be correspondingly less. Moreover, the usability of Porsche is superior to any rival. There are also people who don't like the exotic looks and inconveniences of even more accessible cars like the R8 and wouldn't want a used McLaren or Ferrari.

    The 991 is some 15-20K EUR dearer than 997.2 (which is not pleasant for the buyer) but still what is there to challenge it? Judging from myself and others, for people who like what the 911 has to offer as an allround performance car and automotive icon, nothing else will do, neither an M3 nor a R8 nor a used supercar. After all Porsche will sell their 20.000 911s per year.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    sfo:

    isn't it ironic, in the UK at least, that the Cayenne Diesel has the best residual value of the entire Porsche range .. by far!

     thats exactly what I mean..Smiley..although I am a die hard 911 fan..if it were from the economical perspective..I was to buy a cayenne or panamera. A fw years ago the Porsche 911 was the most stable Porsche model..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    911rox:
    Whoopsy:
    GTlover:
     

    really? if so - rennteam is probably not the best choice for this? Why? because rennteam is s small forum..there are a few - long term - members here. This is good..but for a big organisation, the number of opinions expressed here are "statistically irrelevant"....if 1000 different opinions were expressed here..

    By the way, a smal forum has its charme..thats why many are probably here..

    Young padawan, you are too naive about this forum. 

    Rennteam has more close ties with Porsche than you might imagine. See the tag under my handle? You don't even have a tag. And I think I am considered a 'newcomer', you would do well learning your place in the pecking order.

    I am members of numerous boards but this is the only one that I really engage myself. The other ones are for amateurs. This is where the pros talk and where people find real info, not something a 13 yr old dream of in bed. 

    Unlike other forums, we are not populated with showoffs, which is why the community is small.

     

    With the greatest of respect, you have completely contradicted and discredited yourself with this post... If you think a post count and title beneath your user name makes you more qualified than others, you are sooooo sadly mistaken... 

    Porsche may glance at Rennteam and other forums from time to time but if I were Porsche, i'd be placing greater emphasis on the thoughts and opinions of my customers whom I know before the opinions of randoms on forums hiding behind user names who's demographics (age, education, employment, financial status) are indeterminable... Certainly wouldn't be taking development suggestions from people on a forum that could be 16 years of age or 75 for that matter!

    No forum (rennteam included) is going to be the basis or a resource for development  of new products... The market place, the competition and the company direction dictated by those at the top shapes the future of brands with potential customers spoken to for reaction...

    Take the GT3 as an example, I'd love to be able to blame you and your 3000+ post count for having shaped what is panning out to be an overpriced disaster BUT reality tells me that some greedy bean counters high up in Porsche who want to increase margins by a further 10% and pressure from the competition which suggests you're slow unless you're driving a double clutch box are the real culprits for the "glorified and overpriced GTS" we will be presented in a couple of weeks...SmileySmiley

     Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover and 911rox,

    Would you be so kind to all of us here who do not agree with you regarding 991 range in general and post would you think 991 GT3 should be alike(in GTlover case you could include what 991 GT2 should be alike)? My P source is reading this thread right now and he is interested as well.

    Thanks in advance for your replys.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kreso, its pretty easy and they've done it well for a long time... I would like to see a car that is even more track capable and better handling then its predecessor.

    Does it have to be mezger based? No, but I'd expect that it had a race proven motor that Porsche are happy to compete with in their cup car. I'm far from convinced when I'm told that the mezger is dated where the road car is concerned yet they continue to race this engine... I go to the race track and squeeze off 400-500km per day on track in my 997.2 GT3. That is what a race proven engine (and package) brings to the party. Not many other makes that can do that every month without considerable maintenance and cost beyond tyres and brakes...

    As for PDK, I have no issue with it as an option BUT as the exclusive trans for an enthusiast market built around a manual format is unacceptable... Phase the manual out over a couple of generations, don't kill it because it seems like the way the market has gone... If its offered as an option and 80% of 991 GT cars sell with pdk, kill the manual with the 991.2... Easy...

    The thing that has made the GT range unique is its analog nature! Steering should remain mechanical to maximise feedback like the cup cars, leave out all the electronic BS aid like vectoring this, four wheel steer that blah, blah... If I wanted a PS3 experience, I'd buy a GTR at half the price. And gimmicks to a minimum, its a driver's car, not a show pony... Centrelocks bring nothing but danger of failure and considerable cost of maintenance to the party. Put them on poser cars, not on those being used as intended on a race track unless the system is fool proof and as good as the 5 lug system it replaces from a safety and strength point of view... The GT cars shouldn't be used to make these sorts of pointless marketing statements...

    and if they add some substantial and meaningful weight loss to the mix, I'd happily pay the 10-20 % suggested price increase.

    The GT road cars have always been Cup cars with an interior and enough manipulation to make them street legal and usable. Thats what I expect from a GT car, plain and simple... With the exception of centrelocks, the 997.2 GTs were perfect... Drop weight, make them faster and keep them reliable and your job is done. This is the formula that has made them the benchmark performance/handling package in the past. 

    I doubt that anyone from Porsche who cares is reading this and its a little too late to ask us now but if they'd taken the time to seek the opinion of those loyal to the model series, this is the kind of feedback they would have received... There are plenty of comfy tourers for cars and coffee... The GT cars should be as close to a Cup car that a road car can get IMO!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Totally agree...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    +1 kiss


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    GTlover and 911rox,

    Would you be so kind to all of us here who do not agree with you regarding 991 range in general and post would you think 991 GT3 should be alike(in GTlover case you could include what 991 GT2 should be alike)? My P source is reading this thread right now and he is interested as well.

    Thanks in advance for your replys.

     Hi Kreso,

    Thanks..if it helps ..well, basically, Im looking for a car that is as "simple as possible"..but offers still a good thrill and direct driving. For a 911 GT3 or GT2 I do expect Motorsport heritage - if the new 991 GT3 engine will be used in Le Mans..Im fine with the that. When I say simple I mean the following..I prefer rather 50 hp more than 10 electronic gizmos..I prefer a lighter car..then a heavier car..Im not a fan of a heavy car that needs 10 gizmos to put it bacl on track due to its weight - like the GTR

    PDK -I´m  more or less neutral...I know it shifts faster..but Porsche could still serve a market niche by offering manual too..if only PDK is offered..one is in direct competition with rest..Gallardo e-gear etc. I think even from a business perspective it would no sense at all not to offer the manual one..just because Porsche would be the last one on the market to serve this niche.

    Intererior: well, the 991 intererior looks maybe nice (except for too many buttons)...definately would I like it in a panamera or a cayenne..but in a 911 GT3..it wont fit

    Engine: ah, I need to see the engineSmiley..each time I can see 458 engine, or gallardo one..I wonder why Porsche cant do that..

    Steering :  no electric..at least if its not allowed in a CUP CAR..it should stay out of the street car also.

    I told you that I like the new boxster and cayman..maybe these will be my daily drivers one day..but I think my comments for the 991 GT3 or GT2   will be too late anyway..and my opinion just represents one single opinion..nothing more. But when you look around the forums or talk to owners..you can see some criticsm..I know there will always be...but my impression is, its more now then 4-5 years ago..

    What I really still like in Porsche, unlike other manufaturers they know what "lightweight" cars are..I really bow my hat that they have not increased weight over the last years - and with the new one were able to decrease the weight a bit..although many manufacturers talk about weight..in the end they dont do much about it. The basics of Porsches portfolio are correct and good..- they just need here and there some adjustments - the main problem I see is with the 991..the back also looks not so nice.

    For me its clear:

    would I buy a small sports car - I would buy a boxster,

    would I buy an SUV - I would buy a Cayenne (although the design from the current one is could be better);

    would I buy a family sedan - I would buy a panamera (same argument however as with Cayenne with regard to exterior design)

    would I buy a sportscar - I would be (very) hesitant of buying a 991, the issue of price+ the few other things I said above.

    Hope it helps..for the 992Smiley

    all the best

     

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    911rox:

    Kreso, its pretty easy and they've done it well for a long time... I would like to see a car that is even more track capable and better handling then its predecessor.

    Does it have to be mezger based? No, but I'd expect that it had a race proven motor that Porsche are happy to compete with in their cup car. I'm far from convinced when I'm told that the mezger is dated where the road car is concerned yet they continue to race this engine... I go to the race track and squeeze off 400-500km per day on track in my 997.2 GT3. That is what a race proven engine (and package) brings to the party. Not many other makes that can do that every month without considerable maintenance and cost beyond tyres and brakes...

    As for PDK, I have no issue with it as an option BUT as the exclusive trans for an enthusiast market built around a manual format is unacceptable... Phase the manual out over a couple of generations, don't kill it because it seems like the way the market has gone... If its offered as an option and 80% of 991 GT cars sell with pdk, kill the manual with the 991.2... Easy...

    The thing that has made the GT range unique is its analog nature! Steering should remain mechanical to maximise feedback like the cup cars, leave out all the electronic BS aid like vectoring this, four wheel steer that blah, blah... If I wanted a PS3 experience, I'd buy a GTR at half the price. And gimmicks to a minimum, its a driver's car, not a show pony... Centrelocks bring nothing but danger of failure and considerable cost of maintenance to the party. Put them on poser cars, not on those being used as intended on a race track unless the system is fool proof and as good as the 5 lug system it replaces from a safety and strength point of view... The GT cars shouldn't be used to make these sorts of pointless marketing statements...

    and if they add some substantial and meaningful weight loss to the mix, I'd happily pay the 10-20 % suggested price increase.

    The GT road cars have always been Cup cars with an interior and enough manipulation to make them street legal and usable. Thats what I expect from a GT car, plain and simple... With the exception of centrelocks, the 997.2 GTs were perfect... Drop weight, make them faster and keep them reliable and your job is done. This is the formula that has made them the benchmark performance/handling package in the past. 

    I doubt that anyone from Porsche who cares is reading this and its a little too late to ask us now but if they'd taken the time to seek the opinion of those loyal to the model series, this is the kind of feedback they would have received... There are plenty of comfy tourers for cars and coffee... The GT cars should be as close to a Cup car that a road car can get IMO!

     Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    You have got to wonder if they read the forums? or listen.

    Centerlock wheels have not taken off as a desirable alternative to 5 lug wheels, in fact they are a royal PIA.

    Large cumbersome tools, multiple people required etc. But they remain as racy items, non functional window dressing

    Do they listen? I say NO..... 


    --
    997 GT3 Guards Red

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    The reason I want a GT3 is because I want a road car that is as CLOSE to a race car experience as possible. The GT3 was that car. The Carrera GT is awesome in most part because of its engine, the GT3 was the same. Why should we pay a lot more money for a watered down product? If we want superior comfort and a hifi we can hear we will go buy a McLaren, and I wouldn't want that - but if cost cutting results in a more expensive car that moves further away from the race car experience then I would rather buy a MP4 knowing it can do 7:28 on road tyres.

    Disappointed. 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Interesting - so many negative comments, before knowing almost anything about this car? yes


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Trundle_GT3:

    You have got to wonder if they read the forums? or listen.

    Centerlock wheels have not taken off as a desirable alternative to 5 lug wheels, in fact they are a royal PIA.

    Large cumbersome tools, multiple people required etc. But they remain as racy items, non functional window dressing

    Do they listen? I say NO..... 

    In my modest opinion I would guess someone from Porsche is reading Rennteam. In this respect (Rennteam)  is like a giant multi-national focus group albeit  representing a very narrow (?) niche of Porsche customers . Many users here are competent well beyond average and  often owning spectacular automobiles .  If I look at porsche.contain.com (the sort of Porsche facebook) I see few members there that are indeed Porsche employees. I guess we have them here as well (maybe not posting or maybe yes...who knows).


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Thanks all for your replays.

    Do you know what my P source wrote to me in his email? That most of you who are sceptic about 991 range probably want 997.2 GT3 4.0 RS...

    Let me tell you few of his remarks:

    -engine? 991 GT3 engine is better then any 997/997.2 GT3 engine.  From at least few technical points. You will understand when new GT3 appear in few days...

    -gearbox? Why is everybody so hesitant about PDK? Do you really think that Porsche can not build very, very sporty PDK?

    -track times? 991 GT3 will be faster then any version of 997/997.2 GT3 on the track. Do not look at "leaks" about Ring times.

    -technical gimmicks? Yes, new GT3 will feature some very nice gimmicks that will extend its drive dynamics a lot, both on the road and on the track.

    -price? Unfortunately, new 991 GT3 will be more expensive. It will NOT cost 150K € as base price in Germany.

    -new 991 GT3 will please about 80% of current GT3 costumers and will additionally bring some new costumers as well.

    -those that want hard core sportcar(or track car thatcan be used on the public road) need to wait for GT3 RS. It will be a dream, even for purists.

    I may add that I do not know how to interpet his last sentence? Manual and PDK maybe?

     


     
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