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    My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermarth

    As some of you know, I took the AMV8 to the track at Phillip Island 2 hrs from Melbourne Australia.

    Was having a blast keeping infront of the Evo 5's (Stripped out track cars with slick tyes etc.) Was doing about 1:55s. Car could go way faster, but I didn't want to push the car etc.

    Anyway, I started to feel the brakes go away from me. Just wasn't pulling up (after about 12 laps). So i backed off for about 3/4 of a lap, and let them cool down again. Then went into a safe corner and braked hard, and it pulled up fine, so i accelerated hard out of that corner into the next corner and everything was fine, then came into the Lukey Heights section of the track at about 170km/h, went to brake, and there was virtually no retardation, so i tried to start the corner by tuning, and it just under-steered, the electroncis were buzzing everywhere, but there was nothing it could do against raw physics. Any way, had to make the decision to point it into the gravel trap. I wanted it to go straight in, so that it would not make stone chips....or so i thought!

    So i am then in the gravel trap....and i realise that I am not slowing down (still travelling at about 150km/h and heading to the wall!....So i had to turn to allow the car to dig in, and slow it down (kind of like a snowboard). It made the worst most expensive sound you have ever heard!!!

    Anyway, i missed the wall by about 4 meters, so lucky i didn't write the car off. Lots of stone chips but getting fixed now. Thought I would show you the pics of the AMV8 stripped down. Most of the cost was in the dismantling of the panels!

    So i am now keen to get a track only car! I have been tracking an old Mx5 for years, and can pedel it quite fast (came 2nd at the Winton 6hr event this year). But it is not worth pushing a road car that hard. The AM mechanic reckons it was the pads that went over there operating temperature.

    It was a relatively cheap lesson....if you going to use a road car on the track, be extra careful, and its not worth pushing it too hard!

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

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    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermarth

    Sorry to hear that man!

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    Pentium said:
    Sorry to hear that man!



    Was unfortunate, but could have been a lot worse! I think I actually got out of it very cheaply!!

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    And you are a wiser man now too

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Hey John, you did 12 laps in that thing? When I do track days like Philip Island in any road car, I would only do one warm up lap, 5-6 hot laps, and one cool down lap. There is no way road pads can withstand that kind of temperature! My best mate gets his Porsche changed to track pads and Dot 5 brake fluid and they certainly allow him to do many more laps. Lesson learned I guess. Better than bending it! Where is the car now?

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Maybe a GT3 could do that but even for such a car I've seen people installing race braking pads before doing it...

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    5



    Wow, the car looks absolutely stunning from that angle!

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Aarrrgh!!! That sucks!
    Glad to hear that you are ok, and that - after all - u didnt total the car.
    What kinda brakes are on the AMV8? Arent they relatively large Brembos?
    I have tracked my wee Boxey a few times and never had any fading.
    Just wondering...

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Glad you made the best out of it...you were very lucky too
    In my opinion the AMV8 isn't meant for track use anyway. If you want to have fun at the track and keep it fairly cheap, get yourself one of them Lotus's (e.g. Exige S)

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Glad you made the best out of it...you were very lucky too
    In my opinion the AMV8 isn't meant for track use anyway. If you want to have fun at the track and keep it fairly cheap, get yourself one of them Lotus's (e.g. Exige S)



    I'm tossing up b/w a Lotus 2-11, Exige S and an Ariel Atom!

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Hey John, you did 12 laps in that thing? When I do track days like Philip Island in any road car, I would only do one warm up lap, 5-6 hot laps, and one cool down lap. There is no way road pads can withstand that kind of temperature! My best mate gets his Porsche changed to track pads and Dot 5 brake fluid and they certainly allow him to do many more laps. Lesson learned I guess. Better than bending it! Where is the car now?



    The car was double entered. And I basically came in from the familiarisation laps, and went alost straight out again. So was two sessions, but practically 12 laps in a row. Its now being repaired, will take another week.

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Aarrrgh!!! That sucks!
    Glad to hear that you are ok, and that - after all - u didnt total the car.
    What kinda brakes are on the AMV8? Arent they relatively large Brembos?
    I have tracked my wee Boxey a few times and never had any fading.
    Just wondering...



    Yeah...its not the size that counts Dr. Phil.... its the type of pad you use. The pad that is standard on all V8s, according to the head AM Mechanic in melbourne, is mainly a road pad. ie operating temp not that high. Race pads operate at much higher temps.....but are crap until they have warmed up. In the Formula Ford the first few corners felt like it was never going to stop (plus the tyres were cold).

    AM won't change the pad....so you have to go to an after market place.

    THe Boxster is a relatively light car with similar sized brakes.....so all the extra mass in the AM gets generated into heat....and voila.....fade unless it is in the operating temp range. Also I think the 12 almost consecutive laps didn't help. Usually we only do about 5 laps then rest the car for 30mins....

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Glad you made the best out of it...you were very lucky too
    In my opinion the AMV8 isn't meant for track use anyway. If you want to have fun at the track and keep it fairly cheap, get yourself one of them Lotus's (e.g. Exige S)



    I'm tossing up b/w a Lotus 2-11, Exige S and an Ariel Atom!


    Ah yes, I remember the other thread

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Sorry to hear about your experience. Getting a track car is a good idea, although I have to give you respect for taking your AM to the track. Many people wouldn't as it is just so beautiful. This design masterpiece is by far the best looking car around.

    As for the track car, may I suggest a Cayman S? It does not have very impressive straight line performance, but it is just so easy to handle while still learning how to drive properly. Upgrades and maintenance is quite manageable as well. All in all, an affordable, but very fun track car.

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    John, had the same happing to me with my first Ferrari 550 on SPA-Francourchamps in Belgium. Luckily nothing happened. After this I used Blue-Pagid semi race pads and it was somewhat better. But even with this on the 550 and later on the 360 the braking is a problem. The problem is once you feel the fading on a track day your break-pads are presumably burned and cooling down will not help you.
    In this respect I personally found the braking system of the Porsche 911 much better.
    Good luck with the repairs. I am considering of buying a KTM X-bow for track days. Not too expensive and seems to be really made for the race track.

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Aarrrgh!!! That sucks!
    Glad to hear that you are ok, and that - after all - u didnt total the car.
    What kinda brakes are on the AMV8? Arent they relatively large Brembos?
    I have tracked my wee Boxey a few times and never had any fading.
    Just wondering...



    Yeah...its not the size that counts Dr. Phil.... its the type of pad you use. The pad that is standard on all V8s, according to the head AM Mechanic in melbourne, is mainly a road pad. ie operating temp not that high. Race pads operate at much higher temps.....but are crap until they have warmed up. In the Formula Ford the first few corners felt like it was never going to stop (plus the tyres were cold).

    AM won't change the pad....so you have to go to an after market place.

    THe Boxster is a relatively light car with similar sized brakes.....so all the extra mass in the AM gets generated into heat....and voila.....fade unless it is in the operating temp range. Also I think the 12 almost consecutive laps didn't help. Usually we only do about 5 laps then rest the car for 30mins....



    What about carbon ceramic brakes available on Porsches, Ferraris, Audis etc?

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Dr Phil, obviously you are not braking hard enough! Lol. But seriously, my Boxster S used to do ok with a few laps, but like any road pads, it starts fading after a few too many laps.

    JR-550, I also found my 911 to be pretty good on the brakes department on the track, relative to most other cars I have owned and track. I have not taken my AMV8 out to a track though, and after John's experience, I am not sure if I will. :P

    Hey Parki, let's do our long awaited photo session of our AMV8s when you get the car back. I am surprised Chris said no to putting on track pads. Guess this is where Porsche is so much better locally. I used to get my Porsches serviced and prep by the motorsport division, and that is where my best mate gets his pads and tyres changed before every track day. And being a factory owned shop, you get to keep all warranty. In fact, once my clutch cable snapped on the track and Porsche came and picked up the car and had the repair work performed under warranty. Try that with Aston! This is why I am going to get a GT3 when the 998 comes along (unless 997 Mk2 GT3 is substantially different).

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    Nice pics. nice garage. I once heard about bubbling brake fluid and air in the lines.

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermarth

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    As some of you know, I took the AMV8 to the track at Phillip Island 2 hrs from Melbourne Australia.

    Was having a blast keeping infront of the Evo 5's (Stripped out track cars with slick tyes etc.) Was doing about 1:55s. Car could go way faster, but I didn't want to push the car etc.

    Anyway, I started to feel the brakes go away from me. Just wasn't pulling up (after about 12 laps). So i backed off for about 3/4 of a lap, and let them cool down again. Then went into a safe corner and braked hard, and it pulled up fine, so i accelerated hard out of that corner into the next corner and everything was fine, then came into the Lukey Heights section of the track at about 170km/h, went to brake, and there was virtually no retardation, so i tried to start the corner by tuning, and it just under-steered, the electroncis were buzzing everywhere, but there was nothing it could do against raw physics. Any way, had to make the decision to point it into the gravel trap. I wanted it to go straight in, so that it would not make stone chips....or so i thought!

    So i am then in the gravel trap....and i realise that I am not slowing down (still travelling at about 150km/h and heading to the wall!....So i had to turn to allow the car to dig in, and slow it down (kind of like a snowboard). It made the worst most expensive sound you have ever heard!!!

    Anyway, i missed the wall by about 4 meters, so lucky i didn't write the car off. Lots of stone chips but getting fixed now. Thought I would show you the pics of the AMV8 stripped down. Most of the cost was in the dismantling of the panels!

    So i am now keen to get a track only car! I have been tracking an old Mx5 for years, and can pedel it quite fast (came 2nd at the Winton 6hr event this year). But it is not worth pushing a road car that hard. The AM mechanic reckons it was the pads that went over there operating temperature.

    It was a relatively cheap lesson....if you going to use a road car on the track, be extra careful, and its not worth pushing it too hard!



    Oh, man! I'm rally glad, as during the first moment after seeing the picture I thought you slammed it into a wall. I think sticking with the MX-5 would not be a bad idea.

    Re: My AMV8 at Phillip Island....and the aftermart

    It sounds like fluid boil over to me. Even a non-track pad should hold up to that many laps at the track. I used stock pads for the first season in my 01Z06 without problems.

    If you over extend a pad, you will still have braking force, just not enough to have any decent braking zones...no I bet you boiled over the fluid. Did you replace the stock fluid with new high temp DOT4? Brake fluid absorbs water over time (even 1 year) and that makes the boiling point MUCH lower than it would nornally be from the factory. No matter novice or expert, everyone should be flushing and bleeding their entire brake system with a minimum of Motul. You want something with a wet boiling point of around 450F.

    Once brake fluid is boiled, it is uselss, when it cools you will have some brake, but when it gets hot again, it will be non-existent. I change brake fluid before every track event...cheap insurance.

    I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate incident. Brakes are something that need to be maintained to the highest standard above everything else on the car.

     
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