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    Future of the 911?

    the most people say that the rear-engine is outdated and will be soon on its limits with driving characteristics, through the physical. so will porsche go with the 911 in future for mid-engine setup? also with maybe future 911 hybrids the space in the back will be to close for that rear engine. 

    Re: Future of the 911?

    tvrfan:
    the most people say that the rear-engine is outdated and will be soon on its limits with driving characteristics, through the physical.


    Question: Haven't they been saying that for at least twenty years? Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Future of the 911?

    yes, but look in the future. with alternative engines. maybe hyrid. i dont think that a hybrid fits into a rear engine. because the space wont be enough. so they have to put the engine into the middle. or make the 911 two seater.

    Re: Future of the 911?

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Future of the 911?

    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: Future of the 911?

    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Future of the 911?

    why are you all so focused on rear engine and wheelbase ^^. i personally dont care if the 911 is in future mid engine. if it has better handling, so everything is fine ;).

    if porsche cant make better handling out of the rear engine. they will go with the mid-engine setup for the 911. to be faster than their competitors.


    Re: Future of the 911?

    Rossi:
    tvrfan:
    the most people say that the rear-engine is outdated and will be soon on its limits with driving characteristics, through the physical.


    Question: Haven't they been saying that for at least twenty years? Smiley

    More like the last 50-60 years .

    Smiley


    Re: Future of the 911?

    reginos:
    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    As a 911 fan, meaning a rear-engined design with a short wheelbase I say that increasing its wheelbase and transforming it into a mid-engine setup is bad. If I want that I get a Cayman.


    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: Future of the 911?

    ADias:
    reginos:
    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    As a 911 fan, meaning a rear-engined design with a short wheelbase I say that increasing its wheelbase and transforming it into a mid-engine setup is bad. If I want that I get a Cayman.

    Exactly! Smiley

    Moving the rear engiine of a 911 nearer the centre of the car (i.e., further forward) while at the same time lengthening the wheelbase just isn't feasible. Smiley

    The position of the engine relative to the rear wheels is fixed within certain limits, due to the differntial being ahead of the engine.


    --
    fritz

    Re: Future of the 911?

    MKW:
    Rossi:
    tvrfan:
    the most people say that the rear-engine is outdated and will be soon on its limits with driving characteristics, through the physical.


    Question: Haven't they been saying that for at least twenty years? Smiley

    More like the last 50-60 years .

    Smiley

     

     

     


    True. Smiley
     

     

     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Future of the 911?

    fritz:
    ADias:
    reginos:
    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.

     


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    As a 911 fan, meaning a rear-engined design with a short wheelbase I say that increasing its wheelbase and transforming it into a mid-engine setup is bad. If I want that I get a Cayman.

     

    Exactly! Smiley

     

    Moving the rear engiine of a 911 nearer the centre of the car (i.e., further forward) while at the same time lengthening the wheelbase just isn't feasible. Smiley

    The position of the engine relative to the rear wheels is fixed within certain limits, due to the differntial being ahead of the engine.


    As a 911 customer I want the folding rear seats as additional luggage space. If I want a midengined car, I buy something Italian or a R8 (which has Italian genes as well). Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Future of the 911?

    OMG, do you guys hear yourself speaking? so if the future 911 will be mid-engined. then he will be dead? now way. porsche is in an critcal situation with the rear-engine. and if they would make the future 911 mid-engine. the people will still buy him. because iam sure it will outhandle the ferraris ........

    Re: Future of the 911?

    Rossi:
    fritz:
    ADias:
    reginos:
    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    As a 911 fan, meaning a rear-engined design with a short wheelbase I say that increasing its wheelbase and transforming it into a mid-engine setup is bad. If I want that I get a Cayman.

    Exactly! Smiley

    Moving the rear engiine of a 911 nearer the centre of the car (i.e., further forward) while at the same time lengthening the wheelbase just isn't feasible. Smiley

    The position of the engine relative to the rear wheels is fixed within certain limits, due to the differntial being ahead of the engine.


    As a 911 customer I want the folding rear seats as additional luggage space. If I want a midengined car, I buy something Italian or a R8 (which has Italian genes as well). Smiley


    A mid-engined with rear seats is feasible,like the Bertone Dino/Ferrari 308 GT4 of the 70s.

    Ferrari.dino.arp.750pix.jpg

    However, I prefer the 911 as it is. Why change something unique?


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Future of the 911?

    tvrfan:
    OMG, do you guys hear yourself speaking? so if the future 911 will be mid-engined. then he will be dead? now way. porsche is in an critcal situation with the rear-engine. and if they would make the future 911 mid-engine. the people will still buy him. because iam sure it will outhandle the ferraris ........

     

    "porsche is in an critcal situation with the rear-engine"

    As mentioned above, people have been predicting the death of the rear-engine concept for decades, yet the 911 is in greater demand now than ever before. So where is the critical situation? Totgesagte leben am längsten.Smiley

    "so if the future 911 will be mid-engined. then he will be dead?"

    As mentioned above, the Cayman is effectively a 911 with a mid-engine, albeit with less power than the current 911 range. Since the Cayman continues to sell, though in smaller numbers than the 911, it is obviously not dead. But it is not a 911. Many (maybe most?) 911 fans just don't  think that a mid-engined car should continue to bear the 911 name because it would no longer be true to the original concept.

    "if they would make the future 911 mid-engine. the people will still buy him. because iam sure it will outhandle the ferraris"

    There are already versions of the 911 which outhandle and outperform Ferraris, in spite of the former's rear engine, so where's your problem?


    --
    fritz

    Re: Future of the 911?

    I agree with Fritz. And I also believe Porsche will not give up on the rear engine layout for the new 911. If they do that, the top performance 911 versions will start to be direct competitors with the R8, the F430, the Gallardo and so. Why for the name of God will want Porsche to do that? Everybody likes to be different and that's exactly the catch for instance with the 911 Cup Car vs F430 Challenge Car battle. They are different in character so to watch that battle it's more fun than watching 430 vs gallardo or vs R8V10.

    I believe losing the uniqueness of the 911 aka the rear engine layout + 4 seats + everyday sport car + low maintenance compared with the competition, this whole 911 package,  will make the sales drop a lot.




    --
    There is no try. Just do.

    Re: Future of the 911?

    I say keep the 911 as it is, rear engined.  But take the wraps off the Cayman and let it compete, or dare I say, exceed the performance of the 911 if it can.  Then, we have the best of both worlds.  The Cayman doesn't have to be second-class to the 911.

    Everybody ok with that?

     


    Re: Future of the 911?

    reginos:

    A mid-engined with rear seats is feasible,like the Bertone Dino/Ferrari 308 GT4 of the 70s.

    Ferrari.dino.arp.750pix.jpg

    However, I prefer the 911 as it is. Why change something unique?

    True, and the better know Ferrari Mondial too for example, Lambo also had one too, BUT in the end the concept didn't stick because they were not precisely know for the superior handling and dies out decades ago. So I don't think anyone will be in a hurry to bring that back.


    --

    Re: Future of the 911?

    What is so hard to understand?


    1. The 911 is sinonimous with rear-engined, if you take a spider and put a non-ratractable hard roof on it, its not a spider anymore. If Porsche makes a mid-engined sportcar, then they need to call it something else because 911 will not define it anymore, i.e. Cayman. And if you want a mid-engine sport-car then you don't want a 911.

    2. The 911 is selling better than ever, the envy of the sportcar industry, and universally regarded as the measuring stick for all the cars in its class. So were is the problem?

    3. The 911 rear-engined platform produces cars like the GT3 and GT2 which are at the top of the food chain in terms of handling and performance. And getting better everyday, just look at the new MK-II GT3 now. So were is the problem?

    4. Precisely, the unique 911 concept has outlasted any other spoortcar model (mid-engined or what have you) and has 40 years of heritage and foundation to back it up. You would think that after 40 years people would have learned all this by now.


    --


    Re: Future of the 911?

    SoCal Alan:

    I say keep the 911 as it is, rear engined.  But take the wraps off the Cayman and let it compete, or dare I say, exceed the performance of the 911 if it can.  Then, we have the best of both worlds.  The Cayman doesn't have to be second-class to the 911.

    Everybody ok with that?


    That's what I think. Smiley Here is what I posted elsewhere and had no comments. I repost it here, as it illustrates the issue:

    Here is a comparison of a 991 mule vs the current 997.2. One can see that the door design is different and there is more space between the door and the rear wheel, which seems to indicate an increase in wheelbase (some say an extra 100mm).


    By increasing the 911 wheelbase it appears that PAG is dressing a Cayman in 911 skins, allowing for a mid-engine setup. This may be done for motorsports reasons to race a mid-engine car in 911 clothes. I suspect that the road cars will still be rear-engined w/ a longer wheelbase. Whatever the case, I suspect future 911s will drive quite differently.

    I like a 911 for its basic design and that means short wheelbase (remember it used to be shorter) and all-in-the-rear architecture. If the new 911 has a Cayman wheelbase with a mid-engine setup, it may look like a 911, but it is not a 911 - it is a camouflaged Cayman.

    I note that the Cayman's wheelbase is 65.5mm longer than the 997. If the 991 adds 100mm to the 997 wheelbase, its wheelbase will be 34.5mm longer than the Cayman's. 

    It is a shame that PAG seems to be doing this instead of racing the Cayman. 

    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: Future of the 911?

    Completely agree! Who wants to buy the Cayman will buy the Cayman. Who wants 4 seats will buy the 911. Thumbs up SoCal Alan! Smiley Unleash the Cayman too.

    BUT

    In the recent interview with the head of the Porsche Motorsports (the GT3 niterview), the guy was saying that Porsche can't afford two racing programs right now, one for the 911 and one for the Cayman Smiley

     What a lame excuse! Greeeeeeeeddd it's all we neeeddd (Porsche's oficial song) Smiley


    --
    There is no try. Just do.

    Re: Future of the 911?

    Pentium:

    Completely agree! Who wants to buy the Cayman will buy the Cayman. Who wants 4 seats will buy the 911. Thumbs up SoCal Alan! Smiley Unleash the Cayman too.

    BUT

    In the recent interview with the head of the Porsche Motorsports (the GT3 niterview), the guy was saying that Porsche can't afford two racing programs right now, one for the 911 and one for the Cayman Smiley

     

     What a lame excuse! Greeeeeeeeddd it's all we neeeddd (Porsche's oficial song) Smiley

     

     

     

     

    Let them compete for the racing program.  If the Cayman is better, pick it over the 911.  A little internal competition is good and healthy. Smiley

            


    Re: Future of the 911?

    All this talk re the meaning of the wheelbase increase is speculation. Another possibility is that they keep the engine in the rear but need space in front of it for the tranny and a KERS device.  AFAIC the wheelbase increase will still change the 911 forever.


    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: Future of the 911?

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    fritz:
    ADias:
    reginos:
    ADias:
    reginos:

    In the spy pictures the wheelbase of the new car looks longer. I expect that Porsche will move the engine towards the centre of the car, thus having a rear-mid-engined configuration whilst keeping the rear seats.

    But if the current car can handle 530PS there isn't a case of correcting anything, just making the best more perfect.

    The future will be more about saving weight, efficiency and thus less fuel and pollutants.


    Make no mistake... a longer wheelbase (longer than the Cayman) and a mid-engine setup is NOT a 911. It IS a a larger Cayman w/ a 911 look-alike body.


    You imply this is good or bad? I am not sure.      


    As a 911 fan, meaning a rear-engined design with a short wheelbase I say that increasing its wheelbase and transforming it into a mid-engine setup is bad. If I want that I get a Cayman.

    Exactly! Smiley

    Moving the rear engiine of a 911 nearer the centre of the car (i.e., further forward) while at the same time lengthening the wheelbase just isn't feasible. Smiley

    The position of the engine relative to the rear wheels is fixed within certain limits, due to the differntial being ahead of the engine.


    As a 911 customer I want the folding rear seats as additional luggage space. If I want a midengined car, I buy something Italian or a R8 (which has Italian genes as well). Smiley


    A mid-engined with rear seats is feasible,like the Bertone Dino/Ferrari 308 GT4 of the 70s.

    Ferrari.dino.arp.750pix.jpg

    However, I prefer the 911 as it is. Why change something unique?

    That's true, but let me put it this way: if I want a midengined car, I want the engine right behind the back, not separated by another pair of seats. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Future of the 911?

    Here's the future, the Volks-cay-rrera-man, starting at only 35,000 Euros! Smiley

    Volks-Porsche2.jpg



    Re: Future of the 911?

    dr.j:

    Here's the future, the Volks-cay-rrera-man, starting at only 35,000 Euros! Smiley


    I would appreciate such a car from Porsche. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Future of the 911?

     

    +1 Smiley

     SoCal Alan:

    I say keep the 911 as it is, rear engined.  But take the wraps off the Cayman and let it compete, or dare I say, exceed the performance of the 911 if it can.  Then, we have the best of both worlds.  The Cayman doesn't have to be second-class to the 911.

    Everybody ok with that?


            


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Future of the 911?

    if it aint broke dont fix it.....
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Future of the 911?

    intouch1:
    if it aint broke dont fix it.....

    I agree!

    I've just finished reading a comparison in CAR magazine between the GT2 and the SL65 AMG Black Series ( a car with everything Mercedes know, thrown in) and the conlusion is that the GT2 is the car!

    Who said about the rear engine is dead?



    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Future of the 911?

    Actually I would love to have a longer wheelbase and prefer a slightly mid-engined layout:  Improved Cayman like handling, faster&more powerful than a Cayman ( clearer product differentiation ) and ... on top more space.  (2+2plus)

    But I know dyehart 911 fans will suffer a nervous break-down again. ( like when Porsche introduced water cooled engines ) But PAG will not care because the average 911 driver just goes for badge and 911 look&feel. And from a marketing stand-point I see a clearer product differentiation which "rectifies" to a bigger degree the price difference between a 998 and a Cayman.

    In essence it would be a good move.




     
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