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Re: Scoop BMW M6
Hi Moogle,
I think the modern day sports car has moved decidely towards what one would call a GT in the past. The lines are blurring because people want both. There are few cars that are focused into merely at GT or sports car driving.
What's worse, is when people think they are driving a sports car, but it's really a GT.
I think the modern day sports car has moved decidely towards what one would call a GT in the past. The lines are blurring because people want both. There are few cars that are focused into merely at GT or sports car driving.
What's worse, is when people think they are driving a sports car, but it's really a GT.
Re: Scoop BMW M6
i agree with you , but the definition of GT is 'inbetween' in the first place
it is supposed to be a highly competant highway cruiser, but when one gets off the highway, it is supposed to be a superb sportscar handling car as well.
i suppose the 'blurring' of the lines is due to marketing and their shenanigans...
it is supposed to be a highly competant highway cruiser, but when one gets off the highway, it is supposed to be a superb sportscar handling car as well.
i suppose the 'blurring' of the lines is due to marketing and their shenanigans...
Aug 2, 2004 6:56:38 AM
- palenimbus
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Aug 2, 2004 2:33:41 PM
- Grant
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Aug 2, 2004 4:40:43 PM
- Justin
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Re: Scoop BMW M6
GT3/GT2, 360CS, Noble M12/M400, modern Lotus 7 derivatives, and....can't think of many actually. There are very few extremely focused cars from the factory these days. I'm guessing the marginal benefit isn't there for most buyers. Also, manufacturers can charge extra for giving you less car this way.
As Moogle pointed out, just because a car is a GT, it doesn't mean it cannot produce excellent performance and our discussion is largely one of semantics.
BTW, the new C6 Corvette is supposed to be a solid performer for the price. But why is the car so darn big? Then we have four door sedans outbraking "sports cars" (e.g. Lancer EVO VIII). What's the world coming to?
My original post wasn't intended to dismiss GT cars on the market, but rather to point out that in America, lots of people go out to buy what they think are sports cars and come back with a GT (e.g. M3).
As Moogle pointed out, just because a car is a GT, it doesn't mean it cannot produce excellent performance and our discussion is largely one of semantics.
BTW, the new C6 Corvette is supposed to be a solid performer for the price. But why is the car so darn big? Then we have four door sedans outbraking "sports cars" (e.g. Lancer EVO VIII). What's the world coming to?
My original post wasn't intended to dismiss GT cars on the market, but rather to point out that in America, lots of people go out to buy what they think are sports cars and come back with a GT (e.g. M3).
Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
Justin said:
GT3/GT2, 360CS, Noble M12/M400, modern Lotus 7 derivatives, and....can't think of many actually. There are very few extremely focused cars from the factory these days. I'm guessing the marginal benefit isn't there for most buyers. Also, manufacturers can charge extra for giving you less car this way.
As Moogle pointed out, just because a car is a GT, it doesn't mean it cannot produce excellent performance and our discussion is largely one of semantics.
BTW, the new C6 Corvette is supposed to be a solid performer for the price. But why is the car so darn big? Then we have four door sedans outbraking "sports cars" (e.g. Lancer EVO VIII). What's the world coming to?
My original post wasn't intended to dismiss GT cars on the market, but rather to point out that in America, lots of people go out to buy what they think are sports cars and come back with a GT (e.g. M3).
Justin - actually, the dimensions of the C6 Vette are quite a bit smaller than C5, despite longer wheelbase. I believe that the dimensions are almost identical to the 997, however, the C6 has significantly more power and torque (400/400) than the 997S (355/295) and weighs less than the 997 too, all for less than 1/2 the price.
Aug 2, 2004 6:36:29 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
Justin said:
My original post wasn't intended to dismiss GT cars on the market, but rather to point out that in America, lots of people go out to buy what they think are sports cars and come back with a GT (e.g. M3).
I agree with your point, nothing wrong with SportyCars (they are great for what they do and are a great option for those of us who are very sportcars oriented when we have to buy a non sportcar for practicality and many other reasons) but just as long as you don't regard them as SportCars.
BTW, the C6 will be on Top Gear this Sunday.
Aug 2, 2004 7:42:26 PM
- Grant
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:BTW, the C6 will be on Top Gear this Sunday.
That should be interesting - the British always seem to despise Corvettes. If they're even lukewarm about the C6, that'll be quite an achievement. I have heard that the Magnasteer electronic power steering renders the steering pretty numb. This could make it a deal-breaker for me. Hopefully, the upcoming Z06 will improve upon this. Even the Z51 package for the C6 comes with a faster steering rack (along with lower gear ratios, firmer springs and swaybars, tranny cooler, Oil cooler, etc all for $1,500 - imagine what Porsche would charge for that option package
), so hopefully that will improve things too. However, I'm sure those huge front tires (265/35/18, I think) make it tough to have alot of useful feedback 
Aug 2, 2004 9:40:22 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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(this one is for brunner 
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Aug 2, 2004 10:20:36 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:BTW, the C6 will be on Top Gear this Sunday.
That should be interesting...
What I read already is that someone posted that the C6 did a lap of 1:26 at their track, quite impressive. But the real deal will be the Z06, the C6 is too soft, but the Z06 is going to be a killer IMO.
Here is an updated list to compare:
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Mercedes-Mclaren SLR - 1.20.9
Ford GT - 1.21
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Lamborghini Murcielago - 1.23.7
Pagani Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble M12 GTO-3 - 1.25.0
Lamborghini Gallardo - 1.25.8
Corvette C6 - 1.26
Mitsubish Evo VIII MR320 - 1.26.0
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2 (wet)
TVR T350c - 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
MG SV - 1.28.6
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII FQ300 - 1.28.9
Alpina Roadster (Z8) - 1.29.0
Subaru Impreza WR1 - 1.29.4
Alfa 3.7GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STi - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 Turbo - 1.31.0 (wet)
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo - 1.31.3
Honda NSX Type R - 1.31.6
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
Mazda RX-8 - 1.31.8
Ford Focus RS - 1.32.2
Lotus Esprit V8 - 1.32.5
Audi TT V6 - 1.32.7
Noble M12 - 1.33.1
Mercedes SL55 AMG - 1.33.2
Aug 2, 2004 11:05:51 PM
- brunner
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Aug 2, 2004 11:55:55 PM
- Grant
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:BTW, the C6 will be on Top Gear this Sunday.
That should be interesting...
What I read already is that someone posted that the C6 did a lap of 1:26 at their track, quite impressive. But the real deal will be the Z06, the C6 is too soft, but the Z06 is going to be a killer IMO.
Here is an updated list to compare:
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Mercedes-Mclaren SLR - 1.20.9
Ford GT - 1.21
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Lamborghini Murcielago - 1.23.7
Pagani Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble M12 GTO-3 - 1.25.0
Lamborghini Gallardo - 1.25.8
Corvette C6 - 1.26
Mitsubish Evo VIII MR320 - 1.26.0
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2 (wet)
TVR T350c - 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
MG SV - 1.28.6
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII FQ300 - 1.28.9
Alpina Roadster (Z8) - 1.29.0
Subaru Impreza WR1 - 1.29.4
Alfa 3.7GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STi - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 Turbo - 1.31.0 (wet)
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo - 1.31.3
Honda NSX Type R - 1.31.6
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
Mazda RX-8 - 1.31.8
Ford Focus RS - 1.32.2
Lotus Esprit V8 - 1.32.5
Audi TT V6 - 1.32.7
Noble M12 - 1.33.1
Mercedes SL55 AMG - 1.33.2
Carlos - do you have any idea if this was a standard C6 or if this was with the optional Z51 package? I think that would make a big difference in lap times...
Aug 3, 2004 9:12:38 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Scoop BMW M6
I have no clue, but I will let you know all about it as soon as I download this next Sunday's show. I heard the that the C5 with the Z-51 handled just as well as the Z06 but without the power, so you are probaly right, the difference vs stock is probably very notiaceable.
Aug 3, 2004 3:07:30 PM
- Grant
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Scoop BMW M6
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
I have no clue, but I will let you know all about it as soon as I download this next Sunday's show. I heard the that the C5 with the Z-51 handled just as well as the Z06 but without the power, so you are probaly right, the difference vs stock is probably very notiaceable.
Thanks Carlos! Oh and for the record, the C6 with Z51 actually has probably more power (and certainly more torque) than the C5 Z06
It is a very similar motor that has been increased from 5.7L to 6.0L. They rated it at 400/400, so that it wouldn't anger (or kill sales) for the last C5 Z06 sales (rated at 405/400). The Z06 is a little bit lighter though. One other part of the Z51 package that I forgot to mention before is that it comes with larger (and cross drilled) brake rotors than the base car. It really is a fantastic package for $1,500 
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