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    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    I'm impressed as well, if this car has close to 450hp. but it needs DSG and that will pretty sure come from borg warner. i've seen a protoype (with seven gears if i remember correctly) there one and a half years ago and I was given indication that it was for BMW. prices of the CSL will finally start dropping...

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Think I like it!

    Really looking forward to seeing the final specs on this bad boy!

    The engine sounds so sweeet!

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Hmm, not so sure about the M3 looks. I am also a big fan of the S5 Kreso! Understated and classy. Wonder when they will have the RS5???

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    this seems like a practical daily bang up with some serious "umph" but not what I always thought to be an M car.

    Those days have changed

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    well guys, it's finally out--- I have been saying for some time that BMW would come through and not screw people like they did with the M6 and the 7 series. And they have.

    The M3 looks to be a complete improvement over the older version and I am very happy to have my money down and my place in line to get one.

    (I PRAY THAT IT COMES WITH THE CSL WHEELS AS A STANDARD OPTION).

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    I must say I kind of like it even though the bonnet is a bit too much. But isn't the rear strikingly similar to the SAAB 9-3 Aero , found a (not too good) picture of it on SAABs homepage picture

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    0two9 said:I PRAY THAT IT COMES WITH THE CSL WHEELS AS A STANDARD OPTION.



    Well, at least you can get them for a small premium.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Looks nice, big and heavy...

    Seriously, BMW did not give the advertised HP on the E36 or E46 (dynoed cars always seem to be 20-30hp less!) so even if this car states 415 or 450 it is unlikely to actually have that amount IMO...

    Also, if the latest M5 and M6 are anything to go by, this car still won't handle aswell as a 911!

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    It seems like a good autobahn cruiser. But is that really what they wanted to build?

    IMO the M cars now resemble AMG cars. Big, heavy sedans with powerful engines giving straight-line performance. Throw some corners and twisties in the way and they rapidly show their weight and handling disadvantages. A sedan is a sedan is a sedan.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    How can we criticize the performance numbers of a car that has not been tested, much less had manufacturer numbers released? The current 335i has surprised on the upside in performance, besting the e46 M3 in some tests, the new M3 will certainly out perform it.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    It seems like a good autobahn cruiser. But is that really what they wanted to build?

    IMO the M cars now resemble AMG cars. Big, heavy sedans with powerful engines giving straight-line performance. Throw some corners and twisties in the way and they rapidly show their weight and handling disadvantages. A sedan is a sedan is a sedan.



    Sport Auto supertest, Nurburgring:
    996 GT3 RS: 7:47
    997 GT3: 7:48
    997 GT3 RS: 7:48
    BMW M3 CSL: 7:50 (with Michelin Cup tires)

    From EVOs test of the M3 CS:

    Quote:
    Fortunately the CS is so entertaining through the turns that you're happy to drive around the weak brakes and instead revel in one of the most throttle-adjustable chassis in the world.

    I can't think of another 300bhp+ car that feels so benign when you tweak the tail wide and play out a slide than the M3 CS. There's a bit of understeer in steady-state cornering but the 255-section rear rubber is easily overwhelmed if you're of a mind, and from there it's simply a matter of balancing the opposite lock with power.



    Oh, and the M3 Concept is a coupe is a coupe is a coupe

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    How can we criticize the performance numbers of a car that has not been tested, much less had manufacturer numbers released? The current 335i has surprised on the upside in performance, besting the e46 M3 in some tests, the new M3 will certainly out perform it.



    Well said.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    How can we criticize the performance numbers of a car that has not been tested, much less had manufacturer numbers released? The current 335i has surprised on the upside in performance, besting the e46 M3 in some tests, the new M3 will certainly out perform it.



    Well said.



    Agreed. With 100 bhp more than the 335i, it should be a fine car.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Sure - I was just generalising about M cars generally (like the M5). The M6 and M3 may be coupes but they're no sports cars.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    They are as much a sports car as an E55/E65, CLS65 or any AMG mercedes and RS Audi is. They aren't meant to be hardcore sports cars but more very fast sports oriented luxury tourers. I think we all know that.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    You can catagorize the M3 any way you like; sports car, sports coupe, whatever...it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it will likely run as fast as the 911S in the corners and beat it in the straights (Delimiting the 155 mph top end is cheap and very easy). And, it will do that at 2/3rds of the cost, with a much, much better residual value. I LOVE Porsches, but someone has got to rattle the Empire's cage!

    The styling is subjective, but so is the 911's. I believe that the vast majority believe that the concept M3 is very sexy. Look at the side vents. Notice how they are manufactured that way out of the fender material; not some plastic insert-ala 997 Turbo. Love that car too, but...

    The car will likely weigh in at 3500 lbs. or less and pack at least 420 HP from a high revving V8. The feel of a highly tuned n/a V8 running to 8k will be scintillating.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    devo said:
    You can catagorize the M3 any way you like; sports car, sports coupe, whatever...it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it will likely run as fast as the 911S in the corners and beat it in the straights (Delimiting the 155 mph top end is cheap and very easy). And, it will do that at 2/3rds of the cost, with a much, much better residual value. I LOVE Porsches, but someone has got to rattle the Empire's cage!

    The styling is subjective, but so is the 911's. I believe that the vast majority believe that the concept M3 is very sexy. Look at the side vents. Notice how they are manufactured that way out of the fender material; not some plastic insert-ala 997 Turbo. Love that car too, but...

    The car will likely weigh in at 3500 lbs. or less and pack at least 420 HP from a high revving V8. The feel of a highly tuned n/a V8 running to 8k will be scintillating.



    100% agree.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    You can catagorize the M3 any way you like; sports car, sports coupe, whatever...it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it will likely run as fast as the 911S in the corners and beat it in the straights (Delimiting the 155 mph top end is cheap and very easy). And, it will do that at 2/3rds of the cost, with a much, much better residual value. I LOVE Porsches, but someone has got to rattle the Empire's cage!

    The styling is subjective, but so is the 911's. I believe that the vast majority believe that the concept M3 is very sexy. Look at the side vents. Notice how they are manufactured that way out of the fender material; not some plastic insert-ala 997 Turbo. Love that car too, but...

    The car will likely weigh in at 3500 lbs. or less and pack at least 420 HP from a high revving V8. The feel of a highly tuned n/a V8 running to 8k will be scintillating.



    100% agree.



    A good specced new M3 will cost more than 2/3 the price of a 997S.

    Based on the above you'd probably expect the M6 to way outperform the 997S then right? Well it doesn't - infact it couldn't even beat a standard 997C2 in Top Gear's cross country test last year...

    But alas lets wait for the real thing to be released then we'll see how good the new M3 really is - who knows, we'd might even get a pleasant surprise!

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Sorry to nitpick but the Isle of Man test in Top Gear involved a 997S with -20mm sports suspension and PCCBs.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Oops my mistake easyrider - it still beat the M6 though...

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    The 997S is registration number RX54WJK. It is regularly used for tests by car magazines and is part of Porsche GB's press fleet. The 997S did that run on a closed Manx road in 1 min 29 seconds whereas the M6 and the AM V8 both did the same stretch of road in 1 min 35 seconds.

    Staggering! A 355bhp car utterly destroyed a 507bhp bohemoth.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    You can catagorize the M3 any way you like; sports car, sports coupe, whatever...it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it will likely run as fast as the 911S in the corners and beat it in the straights (Delimiting the 155 mph top end is cheap and very easy). And, it will do that at 2/3rds of the cost, with a much, much better residual value. I LOVE Porsches, but someone has got to rattle the Empire's cage!

    The styling is subjective, but so is the 911's. I believe that the vast majority believe that the concept M3 is very sexy. Look at the side vents. Notice how they are manufactured that way out of the fender material; not some plastic insert-ala 997 Turbo. Love that car too, but...

    The car will likely weigh in at 3500 lbs. or less and pack at least 420 HP from a high revving V8. The feel of a highly tuned n/a V8 running to 8k will be scintillating.



    100% agree.



    A good specced new M3 will cost more than 2/3 the price of a 997S.

    Based on the above you'd probably expect the M6 to way outperform the 997S then right? Well it doesn't - infact it couldn't even beat a standard 997C2 in Top Gear's cross country test last year...

    But alas lets wait for the real thing to be released then we'll see how good the new M3 really is - who knows, we'd might even get a pleasant surprise!



    As Our other member posted, it was an S with the 20mm suspension, which is unavailable in the states. The M3 is clearly much more sport oriented than the M6. It will likely weigh 300+ lbs. less and be much more agile. I believe that we will see a much different outcome with the M3. Even if the M3 fails to beat the 997S with the suspension upgrade, on the track, it won't be far behind. And, in reality very few owners will track their cars. On the street, in the twisties it will be much closer. On the straights, no problem.

    If one were to track their car a lot, then, of course, the 997S would be a better choice. As far as the price, very strong rumor indicates that a well specced M3 will cost about $65k-$67k v. $88k+ for the 997S. That is 3/4ths of the price; sorry. Most importantly, BMW won't charge you $500-$800 for a thicker steering wheel, etc...LOL

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    You can catagorize the M3 any way you like; sports car, sports coupe, whatever...it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it will likely run as fast as the 911S in the corners and beat it in the straights (Delimiting the 155 mph top end is cheap and very easy). And, it will do that at 2/3rds of the cost, with a much, much better residual value. I LOVE Porsches, but someone has got to rattle the Empire's cage!

    The styling is subjective, but so is the 911's. I believe that the vast majority believe that the concept M3 is very sexy. Look at the side vents. Notice how they are manufactured that way out of the fender material; not some plastic insert-ala 997 Turbo. Love that car too, but...

    The car will likely weigh in at 3500 lbs. or less and pack at least 420 HP from a high revving V8. The feel of a highly tuned n/a V8 running to 8k will be scintillating.



    100% agree.



    A good specced new M3 will cost more than 2/3 the price of a 997S.

    Based on the above you'd probably expect the M6 to way outperform the 997S then right? Well it doesn't - infact it couldn't even beat a standard 997C2 in Top Gear's cross country test last year...

    But alas lets wait for the real thing to be released then we'll see how good the new M3 really is - who knows, we'd might even get a pleasant surprise!



    As Our other member posted, it was an S with the 20mm suspension, which is unavailable in the states. The M3 is clearly much more sport oriented than the M6. It will likely weigh 300+ lbs. less and be much more agile. I believe that we will see a much different outcome with the M3. Even if the M3 fails to beat the 997S with the suspension upgrade, on the track, it won't be far behind. And, in reality very few owners will track their cars. On the street, in the twisties it will be much closer. On the straights, no problem.

    If one were to track their car a lot, then, of course, the 997S would be a better choice. As far as the price, very strong rumor indicates that a well specced M3 will cost about $65k-$67k v. $88k+ for the 997S. That is 3/4ths of the price; sorry. Most importantly, BMW won't charge you $500-$800 for a thicker steering wheel, etc...LOL



    The M3 will be fast, but I doubt it's going to really be that fast. Also, Porsche is bringing out its facelifted Carreras soon, which, according to several sources, will range in power from 360 bhp for the standard, to 400 bhp for the S version. Granted, the numbers seem high to me, but they would indicate that Porsche is thaking the threat, posed by other manufacturers, seriously.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    devo, the -20mm sports suspension is not some rare, exclusive suspension option for the diehard track day fan. Any 997 buyer in any country outside the USA and Canada can get it if they want.

    I know Porsche overcharges for every little option BUT this one is FREEEE!! P17 -20mm sports suspension is a no-cost option on a 997S and costs the same as the PASM upgrade on a standard 997.

    It also includes a rear LSD.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    I guess the engine is gonna be awesome and the price is good.

    But the M3 look like a pig, fat and heavy.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    It seems like a good autobahn cruiser. But is that really what they wanted to build?

    IMO the M cars now resemble AMG cars. Big, heavy sedans with powerful engines giving straight-line performance. Throw some corners and twisties in the way and they rapidly show their weight and handling disadvantages. A sedan is a sedan is a sedan.



    Sport Auto supertest, Nurburgring:
    996 GT3 RS: 7:47
    997 GT3: 7:48
    997 GT3 RS: 7:48
    BMW M3 CSL: 7:50 (with Michelin Cup tires)

    From EVOs test of the M3 CS:

    Quote:
    Fortunately the CS is so entertaining through the turns that you're happy to drive around the weak brakes and instead revel in one of the most throttle-adjustable chassis in the world.

    I can't think of another 300bhp+ car that feels so benign when you tweak the tail wide and play out a slide than the M3 CS. There's a bit of understeer in steady-state cornering but the 255-section rear rubber is easily overwhelmed if you're of a mind, and from there it's simply a matter of balancing the opposite lock with power.



    Oh, and the M3 Concept is a coupe is a coupe is a coupe



    Vaguely recall a few NBR times...
    997S Coupe (not Cab) 8:05
    SL55 v1.0 (w/less hp/old ABC susp, etc) 8:06
    M5 8:13

    NBR does have a few curves, right? SL55 weighs some 1200lbs more than 997S and 300lbs more than M5, right? And does 997S have ventil/massaging seats/Bluetooth/sat radio to comfort that poor driver sweating to beat the SL55 by a whole second??? So which car is the alleged sportscar???

    BTW, do cars w/notoriously weak brakes deserve claim of being sportscars...or even driving machines???

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    BTW, do cars w/notoriously weak brakes deserve claim of being sportscars...or even driving machines???



    Well, you can't stop driving if the brakes don't work, now can you?

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    The M3 will be fast, but I doubt it's going to really be that fast. Also, Porsche is bringing out its facelifted Carreras soon, which, according to several sources, will range in power from 360 bhp for the standard, to 400 bhp for the S version. Granted, the numbers seem high to me, but they would indicate that Porsche is thaking the threat, posed by other manufacturers, seriously.



    So I wish Porsche will boost up the HP of the new GT2.

    What about 580hp-600hp?

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    VKSF, here's the data:

    7.59 997S with -20mm sports suspension
    8.02 997S with PASM (sport mode)
    8.05 997S with PASM (normal mode)

    Don't get me wrong - I love the SL55 AMG.

    But we're comparing 500bhp and 700Nm torque from a 5.4L supercharged V8 versus the 3.8L flat 6 of the 997S. What the 997S does for its engine specs is amazing.

    Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

    Easy,

    These are Walter's times... NO other mortal will ever achive them, including von Saurma! So, they are pretty irrelevant IMHO.

    On the other hand times posted by Temm are achived by von Saurma from Sport Auto. And they are very important IMHO.

    BTW, did you read comments from sportscar manufactures in last issue of Sport Auto about Supertest? They all gave it a huge and !

     
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