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    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    cars have more software than hardware now indecision


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    intouch1:

    cars have more software than hardware now indecision

    Some modern cars have up to 70 or more control units...so go figure. Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    intouch1:

    cars have more software than hardware now indecision

    I suspect VW wishes cars had "less" software.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Autocar test 911 Carrera S

    We Like:
    - Tremendous pace
    - Dramatically enhanced usability
    - Exploitable handling
    - Improved efficiency

    We Don't Like:
    - Peak-rev mania dulled
    - Need for sound symposer
    - Turbo lag noticeable on track

    Weight: 1,500 kg

    Track conditions: 16 deg C, Wet

    Dry Lap Time
    1:22.8 vs (991 Carrera - 1:14.20)

    Wet Lap Time
    1:23.7 vs (991 Carrera - 1:13.80)

    1/4 Mile: 12.7 @ 117.4 mph

    0-1000m: 22.5 @ 149.9 mph


    Acceleration (MPH)
    0-60: 4.5
    0-80: 6.6
    0-100: 9.4
    0-110: 11.2
    0-120: 13.3
    0-130: 15.7
    0-140: 18.7
    0-150: 22.7

    Speeds in Gear (MPH) PDK
    1st -> 43 @ 7500rpm
    2nd -> 74 @ 7500rpm
    3rd -> 107 @ 7500rpm
    4th -> 143 @ 7500rpm
    5th -> 180 @ 7500rpm
    6th -> 190 @ 6600rpm
    7th -> 190 @ 5227rpm

    Added options:
    - CF bucket seats
    - Metallic paint
    - LED headlights
    - Park Assist
    - PDK gearbox
    - Rear-axle steering
    - SportDesign Mirrors
    - Sport exhaust system
    - Black painted wheels
    - Dimming mirrors / rain sensor
    - PASM Sport Suspension
    - PCCB
    - Sport Chrono pack
    - GT sport steering wheel


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    That is the best one liner to describe the 991.2... "The 911 is improved, again, but not in a way that will make everybody happy".


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Carlos from Spain:

    That is the best one liner to describe the 991.2... "The 911 is improved, again, but not in a way that will make everybody happy".

    Smiley I still believe Porsche did a wonderful job with the transition from n/a to turbo but of course it would have been better not to have to do this transition.

    One thing is for sure (and I really like the new 991.2 with PSE): Those who went for one of the last 991.1 GTS instead, won't regret it. At all. Smiley  Smiley

    A guy I met once at the dealership shortly after I ordered the GTS told me that I'm dumb to pay so much for an "old" car, when the "new" one is just around the corner. He was expecting 450 hp in the 991.2 Carrera S and he didn't believe a word when I told him that it will be slightly less than in the 991.1 GTS. He ordered a 991.2 Carrera S Cab blindly, not sure it he already has the car.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    0-60 in 4.5 seconds?  Isn't that a disappointment?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Wonderbar:

    0-60 in 4.5 seconds?  Isn't that a disappointment?

    Track conditions were apparently cold and wet so that probably the reason


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    From my practical experience (back to back), the 991.2 Carrera S and the 991.1 GTS have basically the same acceleration (only tried to 220 kph but no noticeable difference and my car is a heavier C4 Cab).

    However, my car is in a pretty good shape (I think). A neighbor has a 991.1 C4S Coupe (2015 model with LED lights) and we tried a couple of times accelerating, he always falls back substantially from standstill (which is weird since we both have PDK) up to 60 kph, then keeps a steady distance and then falls back slowly but steadily at speeds over 120 kph. Since my Cab is heavier, he was quite disappointed.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    The laptimes are hugely slower than the older car - is that down to the track conditions?  They give a "dry" time too...

    Also, the top 4 gears have pretty lousy spacing for performance:

    "4th -> 143mph @ 7500rpm
    5th -> 180mph @ 7500rpm
    6th -> 190mph @ 6600rpm
    7th -> 190mph @ 5227rpm"

    5th-7th should all be lower and closer by a good amount (gap between 4th and 5th is really the worst offender)...


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Gearing looks awful. Deal killer.  Better to shop for a used 991.1 gts.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:

    The laptimes are hugely slower than the older car - is that down to the track conditions?  They give a "dry" time too...

    Also, the top 4 gears have pretty lousy spacing for performance:

    "4th -> 143mph @ 7500rpm
    5th -> 180mph @ 7500rpm
    6th -> 190mph @ 6600rpm
    7th -> 190mph @ 5227rpm"

    5th-7th should all be lower and closer by a good amount (gap between 4th and 5th is really the worst offender)...

    I'm no expert in gearing so Im wondering Grant, could this be intended for fuel economy/CO2 purposes? what do you think is the reason? ... afterall they had to replace the atmospheric engine for a downsized turbocharged engine for that reason, could they have sacrifised the gearing for that purpose as well?


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Could be a combination of criteria needed to meet various regulations, noise, mpg, co2, other etc.. whatever it was the gear ratios are sad.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm no expert in gearing so Im wondering Grant, could this be intended for fuel economy/CO2 purposes? what do you think is the reason? ... afterall they had to replace the atmospheric engine for a downsized turbocharged engine for that reason, could they have sacrifised the gearing for that purpose as well?

    Yes, I think it's for emissions, noise, and fuel efficiency Smiley

    Hopefully the 991.2 GT3 will keep 7th gear as a performance gear (and pack all the others close together because of that advantage). 


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:

    The laptimes are hugely slower than the older car - is that down to the track conditions?  They give a "dry" time too...

    Also, the top 4 gears have pretty lousy spacing for performance:

    "4th -> 143mph @ 7500rpm
    5th -> 180mph @ 7500rpm
    6th -> 190mph @ 6600rpm
    7th -> 190mph @ 5227rpm"

    5th-7th should all be lower and closer by a good amount (gap between 4th and 5th is really the worst offender)...

     

    Autocar always gets the worst performance out of most of the cars, due to unpredictable rainfall (all year in the UK) Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICdeyDs73pY


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I thought Peak power is at 6500 rpm ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    BjoernB:

    I thought Peak power is at 6500 rpm ?

    Yes, that is why Vmax comes in 6th at about that engine speed.  Surprising that the car can manage the same speed in 7th at lower rpm.  Either that is an error or the power curve is virtually flat at the top of the tach (between 5,250 and 6,600.

    BTW, with the manual gearbox Vmax is 191mph (slightly less internal friction than pdk).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Are you saying manual is faster?  Careful


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Leawood911:

    Are you saying manual is faster?  Careful

    Yep, just not quicker Smiley


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Interesting review of the 991.2 vs the 991.1 by Andrew Frankel: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-porsche-911-versus-old-which-better


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S - Cayman GT4 (soon)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    That is the best one liner to describe the 991.2... "The 911 is improved, again, but not in a way that will make everybody happy".

    Smiley I still believe Porsche did a wonderful job with the transition from n/a to turbo but of course it would have been better not to have to do this transition.

    One thing is for sure (and I really like the new 991.2 with PSE): Those who went for one of the last 991.1 GTS instead, won't regret it. At all. Smiley  Smiley

    A guy I met once at the dealership shortly after I ordered the GTS told me that I'm dumb to pay so much for an "old" car, when the "new" one is just around the corner. He was expecting 450 hp in the 991.2 Carrera S and he didn't believe a word when I told him that it will be slightly less than in the 991.1 GTS. He ordered a 991.2 Carrera S Cab blindly, not sure it he already has the car.

    It was a very good move to get the last editions of the N/A engines with nice big displacement and great depth. The new era engines won't ever be the same, making the GTS etc.. very desirable in the purist community at the very least. I want to drive the new one asap, but what I've read is not sounding too good. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Mikla:

    Interesting review of the 991.2 vs the 991.1 by Andrew Frankel: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-porsche-911-versus-old-which-better

    Actually one of the rare reviews where the reviewer actually seems to have driven the cars back to back. 

    I agree with him and he didn't even use a 991.1 GTS for comparison.

    New 991.2 owners will be happy but there is no need to upgrade from a 991.1, especially not from the GTS. Those who own a 991.1 Carrera S and want to upgrade, should not be in love with their engine because they are going to miss it. Other than that, Porsche indeed did a wonderful transition (n/a to turbo) job, no doubt about it but people need to make sure they get the PSE version. Especially since nobody knows exactly how long it will "last" (new European noise emissions regulations).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:

    New SPORT AUTO comparison between the Mercedes GT (462 hp) and new facelifted 991.2 Carrera S.

    On the dyno, the Mercedes had 49 hp more (511 hp), speaking of test cars. angry

    The Porsche had 419 hp (which is also a little bit odd in my opinion but...).

    Test values:

    0-100 kph: 3.8 s (Porsche: 3.7 s)

    0-160 kph: 7.9 s (Porsche: 8.2 s)

    0-200 kph: 12.4 s (Porsche: 13 s)

    Track values:

    Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs 1.10,6 min (Porsche: 1.09,8 min).

    The new PCCB brake used in the Porsche also shows a huge improvement: 200 to 0 kph braking distance is only 128 meters. Impressive. Mercedes GT (ceramic brakes as well): 133 meters.

    The maximum fuel consumption in the test is weird: They claim a maximum of 13 liters / 100 km for the new 991.2 Carrera S. This is, in my opinion, impossible. The Mercedes GT had a maximum fuel consumption of 19.2 liters / 100 km, which sounds much more reasonable but I still doubt this number. I think that over 20 liters would be more precisely.

    If you want to know more details, just ask.

    One further clarification... 1.09,8 min time is with street P Zero N1 tires. With Cup+ 991.2CS with same options as on test example is almost 1s faster around Klein Kurs then 991.1GT3. 

    Also, CG conclusion is that 991.2 CS is the best Carrera of all times.

    Btw, in the same issue is comparison test of ESP systems on wet Klein Kurs. PSM on 991.2CS was the clear winner and read this... 991.2CS was around 6s faster (!) then M4 or C63 S on wet Klein Kurs.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Porsche turbo engines don't have to sound boring you know indecision

    https://youtu.be/GFinVscwk6I


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    That is so cool!  Thanks for sharing. Going to get that for my car. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    TB993tt:

    Porsche turbo engines don't have to sound boring you know indecision

    https://youtu.be/GFinVscwk6I

    Comparing Apples with Oranges? Smiley 

    This may be a "consolation" for you: Starting sometimes this year, aftermarket systems which are louder than stock systems are prohibited in the EU for new cars. Same goes to exhaust systems with flap control (I guess).

    I am very curious how car manufacturers and third party tuners will react to this. 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:

    I am very curious how car manufacturers and third party tuners will react to this. 

     

    Great, so we may expect something of an "Akrapovic end of "season" sale" ... Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    More like a going out of business sale


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    AZ Test for the Convertibles: Corvette Stingray (Auto) vs 911 Carrera S (PDK)

    Lap time - 1:36.3 vs 1:35.8

    0-100: 4.4 vs 3.8
    0-120: 5.7 vs 5.1
    0-140: 7.2 vs 6.6
    0-160: 9.1 vs 8.3
    0-180: 11.4 vs 10.5
    0-200: 14.3 vs 13.0

    Slalom 18m: 70.8 km/h vs 71.6 km/h

    Braking 100-0 (Cold): 33.9m vs 33.4m
    Braking 100-0 (Warm): 32.0m vs 31.8m

    Weight: 1,577 kg vs 1,590 kg

    Tires: Michelin PSS (ZP) vs Pirelli P Zero (N1)

    Price (Base): 84,500 €  vs  123,856 €
    Price with Options: 87,300 €  vs  147,301 €

    Placement: 2nd  v  1st

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Of course those prices are quite different in US (Vettes cost $62k as Convertible with Auto and 991.2 PDK Cab is over $120k - basically double before options)


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


     
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