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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    No PDK = slow... Can't wait to see the real R with PDK (aka 991.2 GT3).


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porsche 911 R driven by Chris Harris in new Top Gear video...

    Link:  http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-aston-v12-vantage-s-vs-porsche-911-r

    ...on road and on track (along with the Aston Martin V12 Vantage S)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    NO doubt it will be an exciting car to drive more so than the run of the mill 911's. But a 991.2S spanking it with only 420 hp compared to 500hp has to raise eye brows.cheeky


    --

     

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    And he now likes the electric steering, it is basically the same system he thoroughly trashed a few years ago.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    And he now likes the electric steering, it is basically the same system he thoroughly trashed a few years ago.

     

    He grew up....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Rossi:
    Targa Tim:
    BiTurbo:

    Sachsenring

    918 Spyder - 1:26,77
    911 Turbo S - 1:32,51
    911 GT3 - 1:32,97
    911 Carrera S - 1:33,48
    911 Carrera GTS - 1:34,21
    911 R - 1:34,32
    911 GT3 RS 4.0 - 1:34,54

     

    Why is Carrera S so fast??Smiley 

    And where is the GT4? SmileySmileySmiley

     

    They measure the time from within the car, therefor from the GT4's perspective...

    t' = t * sqrt(1- v2/c2)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:

    NO doubt it will be an exciting car to drive more so than the run of the mill 911's. But a 991.2S spanking it with only 420 hp compared to 500hp has to raise eye brows.cheeky


    --

     

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

     

    I cannot understand those times at all.

    80hp benefit means nothing.

    Is having PDK and turbo engine the key to being fast??

    4.0RS is the slowest of the bunch, that means my 3.8RS is not even in the league...Smiley


    --

     

     

    Tim

     

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Honestly, it's probably not. New technology is just that much better.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    How do you account for the R which is lighter, has 80 more hp and the latest and best of Porsche MT and suspension being slower on a track it should shine on? I believe Harris in the video speculated that it had more than 500hp. The new GT3 with the rumored 500 hp will eat for lunch.

    That said, if I was offered one (never bothered to ask) I would buy it and flip at the appropriate time. A good investment given the gullibility of Porsche enthusiast.kiss


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Targa Tim:

    I cannot understand those times at all.

    80hp benefit means nothing.

    Is having PDK and turbo engine the key to being fast??

    4.0RS is the slowest of the bunch, that means my 3.8RS is not even in the league...Smiley

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S

     

    You're working harder in the 3.8 RS, because this is what porsche added to the newer models

    - PTV

    - RWS

    - PDK-S

    - Electric Steering

    - Cup 2 tires

    - Improved PASM

    - Bigger Brakes

    Conclusion: No matter how fat and clumsy you are, you'll still be faster in the 991.

    Wait till the Panamera catches up and walks all over manual folks to justify the new tech (free of faults and breakdowns)  my opinion of course Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Cazooch:

    http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-aston-v12-vantage-s-vs-porsche-911-r

    It would be such a waste if Porsche does not allow people to buy a 911 that feels like the R .....  

    I like the Aston Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:

    Honestly, it's probably not. New technology is just that much better.

    I confirm .  Two weeks ago I was doing hot laps on the F1 Nurburgring track  with my RS against a 997.2 GT3 RS ( both drivers same level )  and I thought we would stay pretty close .......... but not , even after half a lap he was way behind and after two laps I could not even see him anymore . The difference for ' normal' drivers is huge .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:
    Cazooch:

    http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-aston-v12-vantage-s-vs-porsche-911-r

    It would be such a waste if Porsche does not allow people to buy a 911 that feels like the R .....

    I like the Aston Smiley

    Yup, me too which is why I have one on order - due mid November now. Smiley

    Although its clear the 911R had the edge out of the two cars for Harris, he really loved both of them and the Aston has some very endearing attributes in its own right.

    When you consider that you can just buy the Aston new for list (+/- some haggling), and unless you were either one of the very lucky few who were allowed to buy a 991R new, or are prepared to spend insane amounts of cash on a flipped one, then in bang for the buck terms the Aston holds its head pretty high and is still a special car. It is also quite probably is the last production car we will see with a n/a V12 engine and manual gearbox. Smiley


    --

    Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, PCCB, 918 Style Full Buckets

    Aston Martin V12 Vantage S Dogleg Manual, Colour tba, Buckets (on order)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:
    noone1:

    Honestly, it's probably not. New technology is just that much better.

    I confirm .  Two weeks ago I was doing hot laps on the F1 Nurburgring track  with my RS against a 997.2 GT3 RS ( both drivers same level )  and I thought we would stay pretty close .......... but not , even after half a lap he was way behind and after two laps I could not even see him anymore . The difference for ' normal' drivers is huge .

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 911 R driven by Chris Harris in new Top Gear video...

    Link:  http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-aston-v12-vantage-s-vs-porsche-911-r

    ...on road and on track (along with the Aston Martin V12 Vantage S)

    Great video as usual. Anyone know the soundtrack title?  love it.


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porker:
    nberry:

    These numbers do not look good for a $200,000 car. Its slower than other Porsche models which are $50,000 less. Goes to show you what marketing can do. One cannot account for blind gullibility.cheeky

    In my opinion, if you're the person to judge a 911R on numbers, you're not the person for whom a 911R is intended.

    The issue is the high price tag, for this price one expects the emotion and fun this car advertises and delivers, and the performance, at least better performance than the standard 911s, even though they may never be used. It is similar to buying the latest iPhone, one may not use all the capabilities, but since it is a premium product at a premium price, one expects premium specs.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Ziggy:
    Porker:
    nberry:

    These numbers do not look good for a $200,000 car. Its slower than other Porsche models which are $50,000 less. Goes to show you what marketing can do. One cannot account for blind gullibility.cheeky

    In my opinion, if you're the person to judge a 911R on numbers, you're not the person for whom a 911R is intended.

    The issue is the high price tag, for this price one expects the emotion and fun this car advertises and delivers, and the performance, at least better performance than the standard 911s, even though they may never be used. It is similar to buying the latest iPhone, one may not use all the capabilities, but since it is a premium product at a premium price, one expects premium specs.

    The performance is there. But 911R was made for these, who wanted more purist 911, sacrificing some of the numbers on PAPER.

    Every modern 911 (not to talk about last gen turbo ones) will be faster than 911R and that was to be expected from the very beginning…

    911R has to be driven to be judged properly, not just timed… 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Interesting. Pay more money for less performance but more feel.


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porsche understands that these cars are more about an emotional connection than performance figures.

    After all, a Singer 911 isn't faster than a 991 Carrera S, but it's a more exciting ownership proposition for many... and a bit more expensive!

    This week a 993 GT2 sold for £1.8m at auction, but that car is certainly not faster than a 991 Turbo S... again the price is not about performance figures!

    Most of the Porsche range is quicker than a Ferrari 250 GTO... but the GTO is worth 200 times an average sports car!

    If you read reviews of the new Cayman, with a four-cylinder turbo engine, it is clearly quicker than the old naturally aspirate flat-six, but is less desirable as a result.

    We all enjoy fast cars, but ultimately enjoyment is not about how fast you get there... you also need to enjoy the journey!

    The 911 R is a fast car, but it's also about the ultimate enjoyment of the journey.

    One last thought, is the best meal you ever had also the fastest?

    Enjoy the moment.

    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Very well said!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:
    noone1:

    Honestly, it's probably not. New technology is just that much better.

    I confirm .  Two weeks ago I was doing hot laps on the F1 Nurburgring track  with my RS against a 997.2 GT3 RS ( both drivers same level )  and I thought we would stay pretty close .......... but not , even after half a lap he was way behind and after two laps I could not even see him anymore . The difference for ' normal' drivers is huge .

     

    All because you have the Lava RS, which is the fastest colour! Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    And talking about Singer. Rob Dickinson is also in town to promote his cars. 

    Singer will have something really special coming, more R than the 911R, all I can sayangry


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Porsche understands that these cars are more about an emotional connection than performance figures.

    After all, a Singer 911 isn't faster than a 991 Carrera S, but it's a more exciting ownership proposition for many... and a bit more expensive!

    This week a 993 GT2 sold for £1.8m at auction, but that car is certainly not faster than a 991 Turbo S... again the price is not about performance figures!

    Most of the Porsche range is quicker than a Ferrari 250 GTO... but the GTO is worth 200 times an average sports car!

    If you read reviews of the new Cayman, with a four-cylinder turbo engine, it is clearly quicker than the old naturally aspirate flat-six, but is less desirable as a result.

    We all enjoy fast cars, but ultimately enjoyment is not about how fast you get there... you also need to enjoy the journey!

    The 911 R is a fast car, but it's also about the ultimate enjoyment of the journey.

    One last thought, is the best meal you ever had also the fastest?

    Enjoy the moment.

    You are comparing apples to oranges.

    If performance didn't matter then why are the car manufacturers constantly increasing hp and performance?

    While it is true that many older classic cars are selling above their original costs, that may have more to do with limited availability rather than driving characteristics. Most of the cars are bought as investments. rarely are they driven on a regular basis. They essentially are garage queens until the next enthusiast who has more money than sense offers to buy for an ungodly sum.


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:

    Interesting. Pay more money for less performance but more feel.

    Does price always have to equate to performance?  Your Targa must have cost pretty close to the price of a GT3.  Far heavier car, less feel, less noise.  But at least it has that turbo torque.  But you paid for that open top experience primarily, right?  Also, as you have indicated in the past, these cars are starting to get too fast to enjoy on public roads.  Now we need to find other qualities to entertain us on the road because the performance is "enough."  

    I agree with you though that the price of the 911R is not necessarily reasonable, but this isn't a regular production model anyway, so I can excuse it for that reason.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I bought the Targa because it was on my bucket list. After selling the GT3 I began to miss driving a Porsche. Since I have had a couple of TT's, a Carrara S and own a Boxster my only choice was the Targa. The initial reviews when it was first introduced were not good but the 2017 model received many positive reviews. The cost of both was almost identical.

    I will buy the 991.2GT3 (probably order it in September 2017 unless they announce a .2GT3RS. Then I must decide whether the RS is worth the price.kiss


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I wonder where to go next, too, Nick. No desire to go back to Ferrari? I've never had one, so somehow curious about a 458 or F12..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Great cars. The attention can be overwhelming. However, the Porsche GT cars now give you what Ferrari has given for a very long time. Excitement at legal speeds for substantially less money.

    Another reason why I sold my GT3 was the confirmation of a 991GT3.2. I suspected I would get back into one of the GT3's after sating my appetite for a Targa. The timing will be perfect. I'll drive the Targa for about 18 months while waiting for whichever GT3 (hopefully a RS) to be delivered.


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:
    nberry:

    Interesting. Pay more money for less performance but more feel.

    Does price always have to equate to performance?  Your Targa must have cost pretty close to the price of a GT3.  Far heavier car, less feel, less noise. 

    Not a fair comparison.  A big portion of money in the Targa is for open top driving enjoyment.

    For the 2 cars in comparison, 991R vs new 991.2 Carrera S, both hard top coupes, one with NA 500hp manual, the other with turbo 420hp PDK at much cheaper price.

    I do not see the value of this 991R at all, other than keeping it to flip some day.  Carrera S can be ordered in manual and can do everything that the R can do in terms of driving.

    I was planning to add a 991.2 GT3 manual, but not too sure after seeing these track times.  If PDK is that much faster on track, then a cheap Carrera S PDK will do.  But since I prefer manual shift on track for fun, and every new PDK cars will pass me anyway, then I might as well just stick to my slow 3.8RS.  For street driving, none of the above discussion is necessary as my old club coupe has enough hp to get me into trouble.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I understand, and miss an open-top experience. The GT3 is just superb, though. Just click the left paddle a few times and few things can match that. 


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    To bring things back on topic, loved CH's video. I get the feeling P has spent a lot of time calibrating an tuning various things to end up with a great product. Kudos to those lucky guys who get to make $$$ on their allocations, hopefully for the rest of us we get to buy a next-gen GT3 which builds on it..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


     
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