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    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Terrific post! Sometime we tend to forget we are very fortunate to sit here and argue with personal experience about these great cars. Your post really nailed the respective positions.



    I don't find anything terrific about it, still doesn't explain the psychological reasons for YOU posting on a Porsche forum and a Z06 owner doing the same.
    Do you have children, Nick? I think you have way too much free time on your hands.

    Re: Admit it

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    W211 said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    well stated by someone who doesn't own or hasn't driven a 997tt - the turbo's torque is wonderfully useful on US roads



    Exactly. I feel that many are just talking themselves out of it fighting the urge.

    If folks truly don't think much of the 997 Turbo, why bother visiting the 997 Turbo forum!

    Heck I don't care much for the Z06, F430, 997S, would I bother wasting time preaching to those owners?



    Nck has a lot of time in his hands, that's why... AND little time to drive his F430. He is limited to just a few miles a year and never fast miles... God forbid the car is used, or it will lose its value. These F-car owners are frustrated adolescents who crave performance, but prefer showing-off instead, driving their could-be sports cars at boulevard speeds just to be seen. By spending his time in P-car forums (other than his Cayenne's forum) fits well a psychological profile of a frustrated car nut. Do not pay attention to him!





    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    The TT weighs 500Lbs more and has quite a bit less hp.



    Horsepower and weight are not the only factors affecting acceleration. Gearing and power curves are also very important.


    Yes, and traction too...

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    The TT weighs 500Lbs more and has quite a bit less hp.



    Horsepower and weight are not the only factors affecting acceleration. Gearing and power curves are also very important.


    True and it takes alot of gearing to make up for 500Lbs and 30-50 less hp. If you've seen a dyno sheet from a Z you would know that power under the curve wasn't a problem.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Terrific post! Sometime we tend to forget we are very fortunate to sit here and argue with personal experience about these great cars. Your post really nailed the respective positions.



    I don't find anything terrific about it, still doesn't explain the psychological reasons for YOU posting on a Porsche forum and a Z06 owner doing the same.
    Do you have children, Nick? I think you have way too much free time on your hands.



    The reason I own a Z06 and post on other forums is because i've owned Ferraris, Mustangs, M3s, Supras and now a Z06. I enjoy talking about a wide range of cars on many different sites. Don't be so insecure man. You should like having other opinions besides just the Porsche faithfull. Keeps ya honest. And I am seriously considering buying my first Porsche very soon so I am doing research you might say.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    There is a difference between pointless bashing and constructive opinions, and or genuine questions. Nevertheless, there is the *ignore user feature*, to help us deal with those anti-Porsche activists/terrorists.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    W211 said:
    There is a difference between pointless bashing and constructive opinions, and or genuine questions. Nevertheless, there is the *ignore user feature*, to help us deal with those anti-Porsche activists/terrorists.


    You need to go back and re read my posts. I hae not pointlessly bashed anything or anyone. That's a rediculous statement. I love the new TT and the new GT3. I'm trying to decide between the two. Again, don't be so sensitive.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    You should like having other opinions besides just the Porsche faithfull.




    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Your posts are fine. Keep them coming! Diversity of cars, drivers, and experience keeps the perspective. After racing formula cars, I took my 993tt on the track and was so disappointed. But its one of the all time great street cars! Why knock it for not being a monocoque, track only machine. Agree....great time to be a car guy and has been for a while!

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Quote:
    W211 said:
    There is a difference between pointless bashing and constructive opinions, and or genuine questions. Nevertheless, there is the *ignore user feature*, to help us deal with those anti-Porsche activists/terrorists.


    You need to go back and re read my posts. I hae not pointlessly bashed anything or anyone. That's a rediculous statement. I love the new TT and the new GT3. I'm trying to decide between the two. Again, don't be so sensitive.



    Wasn't directed to your posts in particular, no hard feelings. Well, unless you were the one complaining about the 997TT exhaust, the looks, the resell value, the performance, the poor value, the ugly wing, the showy 'turbo' lettering on the wing, the interior, the prestige, and how one should pick a Cayenne over the 997TT!

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Don't be so insecure man. You should like having other opinions besides just the Porsche faithfull. Keeps ya honest. And I am seriously considering buying my first Porsche very soon so I am doing research you might say.



    Have you read the forum rules? This is how it works.
    We didn't come up with the rules for nothing (or because I or somebody else is insecure, zzboba and CR own Ferraris) but because we wanted to avoid insulting and sometimes pointless discussions. Have you ever seen me posting on a Corvette forum about the 997 Turbo? People can read and get an opinion, there is no need for provokation.
    And if somebody really is curious, he can just ask, for example in a thread like "how does the 997 Turbo compare to the Z06, has somebody driven both?". Just an example.
    Z06 owners coming here and telling us how great their cars are...not really helping, especially since in my opinion, the 997 Turbo and Z06 are two different beasts, each with it's own personality and capabilities.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    RC,

    I guess I should apologize, as I am the thread starter. I didn't mean for this to turn into a bash fest, with Corvette owners telling us how great their cars are. I think it's really time to curb membership, since it seems that a simple thread, displaying the results of a friendly shootout can't seem to remain civilized.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    True and it takes alot of gearing to make up for 500Lbs and 30-50 less hp. If you've seen a dyno sheet from a Z you would know that power under the curve wasn't a problem.



    It doesn't take a lot of gearing to make a big differtence. The 997 is a good example of this. It's gearing was changed by a small amount, and the acceleration difference is measurable.

    And I don't think the weight difference between the C6Z and the 997 Turbo will average 500 lbs.

    Lets wait for some American magazine tests befor concluding the acceleration differences between the two cars. And if by chance they end up very close in acceleration, how are you going to answer that?

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Terrific post! Sometime we tend to forget we are very fortunate to sit here and argue with personal experience about these great cars. Your post really nailed the respective positions.



    I don't find anything terrific about it, still doesn't explain the psychological reasons for YOU posting on a Porsche forum and a Z06 owner doing the same.
    Do you have children, Nick? I think you have way too much free time on your hands.



    Having a bad day? The Turbo is a great car but please do not insist on having everyone acknowledge its greatness over all other cars. The Z06 is a worthy competitor and deserves discussion on a 997TT site. If not, then honestly this board will lose what makes it good; diversity, openness and civility.

    BTW, don't worry the 997TT will sell very well. Your friends at Porsche will be making several runs to the bank to deposit their profits.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Having a bad day? The Turbo is a great car but please do not insist on having everyone acknowledge its greatness over all other cars.


    Oh, the irony

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    that's not irony. that's ignorance.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    DJB said:
    Your posts are fine. Keep them coming! Diversity of cars, drivers, and experience keeps the perspective. After racing formula cars, I took my 993tt on the track and was so disappointed. But its one of the all time great street cars! Why knock it for not being a monocoque, track only machine. Agree....great time to be a car guy and has been for a while!


    That's the turbo I want. Man has rarely created such a beautiful car as the 993Turbo. They still make me drool.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    True and it takes alot of gearing to make up for 500Lbs and 30-50 less hp. If you've seen a dyno sheet from a Z you would know that power under the curve wasn't a problem.



    It doesn't take a lot of gearing to make a big differtence. The 997 is a good example of this. It's gearing was changed by a small amount, and the acceleration difference is measurable.

    And I don't think the weight difference between the C6Z and the 997 Turbo will average 500 lbs.

    Lets wait for some American magazine tests befor concluding the acceleration differences between the two cars. And if by chance they end up very close in acceleration, how are you going to answer that?


    ACtually I think they are going to be very close in most instances. I've said all along i think the 997TT will be faster off the line and the Z will be faster from a roll which is what real world experience is starting to show.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    The weight difference is probably more like 370 lbs, or so. If you deleted the sunroof on the turbo and added PCCB's the disparity would be more like 250 lbs. Remember the Z does not have a sunroof; other than the tear off roof.
    Every Z owner touts their dyno numbers. I'm sure that the Z's dyno at 530 something, however, don't you think that the tt is underated too?
    The Z's h.p. advantage is there, but it's not more than 25-30, imo.
    I don't doubt that the Z MAY slightly outrun a tt, but when the powerkit is out; sunroof delete (to make the cars comparable) and the aforementioned PCCB's; the roles will be reversed.
    Yes you can mod a z, but I'm talking factory equipped.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    but WHERE IS THE VIDEO?

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    A Z06 dynoed in Germany had 525 HP.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Chevrolet has a independent SAE approved consulting company
    check and verify that every Z06 engine makes a minimum of
    505 bhp. So chances are most will run ahead of that number.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Sorry, to drive a high performance sport car on a daily basis is the quintessential act of a posuer.

    Not that it matters to Ferrari owners, as far as performance betweeeen the 430 & 997TT is concerned, it all depends on who is running the test. Please understand that only redeeming quality of the 997TT is to provide some level of competent performance to make up for its lack of excitement, its ordinary look alike look and the financial bath owners will take once the car is delivered.



    How ironic, you don't make much of a case for how exiting the F430 is compared to the 997TT when you seem spend more time in a Porsche forum "talking" about the 997TT than actually "driving" your F430.

    I have always asked myself why this is, personally I don't have the time to waste to troll the Merc-AMG forums for example when I don't like, appreciate no have any interest in AMG cars... what a waste of valuable time, I'd rather be out driving my 911 or talking with other P-fans.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quit raggin on Nick about posting on the Porsche forum.

    First, with all of the Porsche/Ferrari/Z06/et al comparison tests, it makes it fair game for other brand owners to post here. And I think that a lockstep forum tone would be less than entertaining and overly parochial.

    Second, it is not specious to argue that driving a high performance sports car everyday when you cannot use its ability due to traffic patterns, regulations or guts, does
    in fact seem more like posing than using.

    At the minimum its tragic under utilization of mechanical ability and the money spent to affords it.

    I know that you use the last ounce of what you paid for, but you have a different driving environment. So a lot of what Nick speaks to is really more local than global. So view his posts with that caveat.

    And considering that he already has 5000 miles on that Iowa yellow ferrari from flogging it out in the desert, I think that speaks highly of him and his use of a bloated Mini Cooper as daily driver car.


    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quit raggin on Nick about posting on the Porsche forum.

    First, with all of the Porsche/Ferrari/Z06/et al comparison tests, it makes it fair game for other brand owners to post here. And I think that a lockstep forum tone would be less than entertaining and overly parochial.

    Second, it is not specious to argue that driving a high performance sports car everyday when you cannot use its ability due to traffic patterns, regulations or guts, does
    in fact seem more like posing than using.

    At the minimum its tragic under utilization of mechanical ability and the money spent to affords it.

    I know that you use the last ounce of what you paid for, but you have a different driving environment. So a lot of what Nick speaks to is really more local than global. So view his posts with that caveat.

    And considering that he already has 5000 miles on that Iowa yellow ferrari from flogging it out in the desert, I think that speaks highly of him and his use of a bloated Mini Cooper as daily driver car.





    Nick, how do you know one can't utilize the car? Not everybody commutes to work on the 101 .

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quit raggin on Nick about posting on the Porsche forum.




    ...But it gets even worse. He's on multiple Porsche forums doing the same thing!

    Nick, I want your job. Earn big bucks to buy a Ferrari and then spend the rest of the day telling all the Porsche guys what losers they are.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ... still doesn't explain the psychological reasons for YOU posting on a Porsche forum and a Z06 owner doing the same.




    One has an inferiority complex and the other has a superiority one.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:ACtually I think they are going to be very close in most instances. I've said all along i think the 997TT will be faster off the line and the Z will be faster from a roll which is what real world experience is starting to show.



    And if magazine tests show the two cars being essentially equal from a roll, where does thet leave you with your horsepower/weight argument?

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Yeah, I went up against ole Nick on the "other" Porsche forum. Seems Nick has a penchant for crashing everyone elses parties and seldom spends his time at his own.

    Furthermore, Nick is more obsessed with the investment aspect of his car. His endless rhetorical dialectic on the virtues of Ferrari values on a Porsche forum is enough to make anyone sick.

    I had to explain to Nick that "It's my life and I'll do what I want" so that he could better understand that its my freakin' wallet and not his. Nick, wanna pay my bills? Then you can dicate to me to buy a Ferrari or whatever you like. I like the 997TT and that's what I bought. If I lose 50K on it in 1 year, then so be it. Its my money, I earned it, paid the taxes on it and I'll spend it my way. And besides, I think Porsche is better than Ferrari, so how do you like me now?

    Uh, that why I am on the 997TT Forum and not the Z06 Forum, the Ferrari Forum or some other place. I like the Porsches, and so do most of the other guys on here, let us enjoy them in peace.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    devo said:
    The weight difference is probably more like 370 lbs, or so. If you deleted the sunroof on the turbo and added PCCB's the disparity would be more like 250 lbs. Remember the Z does not have a sunroof; other than the tear off roof.
    Every Z owner touts their dyno numbers. I'm sure that the Z's dyno at 530 something, however, don't you think that the tt is underated too?
    The Z's h.p. advantage is there, but it's not more than 25-30, imo.
    I don't doubt that the Z MAY slightly outrun a tt, but when the powerkit is out; sunroof delete (to make the cars comparable) and the aforementioned PCCB's; the roles will be reversed.
    Yes you can mod a z, but I'm talking factory equipped.


    I thought the TT was weighing in at 3700LBS wet? That's what I have read on this site and Rennlist. Could be wrong though. Most of the guys I know that have weighed thier Zs hav weighed in at around 3080-3100 wet. They were listed at about 100LBS more. Apparently they overstated that and understated hp which would make sense because when you plug in gear ratios, weight and hp a stock Z should not be able to run the 11.3s@127 that people are running. So far the torque management has kept the cars out of the tens or they would definately be there already. If you launch a Z at anything greate than about 3000rpms the computer pulls out power to save the rear end from being shredded when shifting into 2cnd. This keeps everyone's 60ft times at 1.7 or greater. This along with run flats is why the TT will run away from the Z off the line everytime.
    Of course Porsche has always underated power as well. There's just no way the TT and the GT3 have the rated hp. They are both too fast for the stated power at their weight and gearing.
    I guess that's a good problem to have though. Ferrari does just the opposite which I think is very bad because many of their owners eventually figure this out. I always wondered why my M3 could hang nose to nose with my 355 dspite having 50 less hp and about 500 more pounds to push around.

     
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