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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Whoopsy:

    Nick won't even take delivery of the manual car.......................

    You know me well!Smiley

    Frayed thanks for the info. I am keeping my fingers crossed you get your car in time as well. Sadly, a few have taken over the other board and it really has degenerated into a contest as to who can criticize the Gt3 more. I could never imagine the hostility and venom over the lack of MT in the 991GT3. You would think Porsche was taking their kids away from them. WOW!Smiley

    BTW, had you driven with a PDK before? Personally I believe it is more fun in street driving. It provides me with an opportunity to exercise the car more frequently in areas that a manual may not be suited for like really twisty roads. Allows you to pay attention to the road and the balance of the car as you negotiate the turns.Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    MyenShi.

    Thanks so much for your kind comments.

    I have no axe to grind on Rennlist. I dont own a 997 GT3 MT car to defend, Im not a typical new car buyer (never bought a new Porsche before), Im a bit Old Skool (air cooled, manual, no driver aids etc) and Ive owned most of the GT3 type stuff from 964RS, 993RS, 996.1 GT3. For many years (after trying the 996.1 GT3) I believed Porsche had lost the plot with the new cars. Heavier, more clinical, faster, less organic, water cooled, driver aids etc etc etc. I stuck with my 993 C2 6 speed  (have owned it almost 14 years), got involved a bit on fast road drives, Tarmac Rally & Track and spent years on Rennlist 993 board and watched the wold go buy.

    I never got on the 997 GT3 board and told them their cars were to digital, too heavy, didnt sound as nice as an aircooled or had too many drivers aids and that they were all likely so average at driving that the GT3 could make up/cover up for their failings on the track etc.

    But low and behold the 991 GT3 comes along and long ago I put my name down knowing from a few close sources it would be PDK-S and a game changer. All of a sudden constructive discussion and information on sightings and launches are bombarded with posts from people who have a much more biased platform than the one I stand on. Reason went out the window and it became a bitter place to be (the 991 GT3 board). Many detractors were never in a position to consider the new GT3 in the first place and those that were were busy defending the title of their 3.8GT3RS or suchlike. I understand that. This car threatens the establishment. Its also so dar removed from an old skool Porsche in my mind that it is exciting. Finally Porsche have released a product that is more than evolution - infact going by the chatter on the airwaves the 991 GT3 is pure REVOLUTION!

    Having traveled Cuba shortly after ordering the car last September perhaps I felt like a bit of REVOLUTION. Evolution has got a bit boring in the Porsche product IMHO. The 997 3.8 GT3RS is a wonderful car and I simply love it. Those who own it and are die hard MT guys should be jumping with joy that the MT is dead in the GT cars (well at this time in ant case). 

    At the end of the day most discussion on these boards is presumptive at best. I only hoped we could glean facts on the new car from different sources and share them so we could all become more informed about what this new GT3 is and means. I dont have any reservations at all about the new car. I have an old friend who has been close to the testing and doesnt work for Porsche and his words were enough to satisfy me 100% that this car is definately SOMETHING ELSE. He knows Im an RS type of guy. I have also managed to get alot of dealer information on the vehicle including some quite detailed technical sales specs etc and Im now 100% satisfied this car is perfect for me. Im not threatened by what others say. No one has driven it but I feel Ive done more research that most.

    Most of all I feel exactly like AP did when he said SHUT UP AND DRIVE IT FIRST. For me this is all thats left to understand what the car is truely about. I don't care about seats and warranty and if it will break on track. Ive spent 14 years with those same risks with the 993 and its been bullet proof and rewarding as most 911s are.

    Most of all which is sad is that Porsche are changing direction and it looks to me they will not be taking many of their old time supporters with them. This has happened before and will happen again. Im not sure I will be a new Porsche car buyer again beyond the 991 GT3 is I am honest. I see the brand watering down too but they still at this time make a great product no one can argue. The great thing there are over 1 million used Porsches out there for sale. I dont understand these guys going on about how they wont buy the new GT3 because its less viceral. Firstly thats an assumption and secondly why do they own a 3.8 GT3 if thats truely their belief? If they were truely as hard core as they make out they would settle for nothing less than a 964 or 993 RS or 996 GT3. Maybe they would have a 1973 RS replica. Im sure many of these guys if put into my car for a session on the track would find they were not the driving gods they thought.

    Anyway I dont ant to start any more debates - lets get on and be constructive....

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:
    Whoopsy:

    Nick won't even take delivery of the manual car.......................

    You know me well!Smiley

    Frayed thanks for the info. I am keeping my fingers crossed you get your car in time as well. Sadly, a few have taken over the other board and it really has degenerated into a contest as to who can criticize the Gt3 more. I could never imagine the hostility and venom over the lack of MT in the 991GT3. You would think Porsche was taking their kids away from them. WOW!Smiley

    BTW, had you driven with a PDK before? Personally I believe it is more fun in street driving. It provides me with an opportunity to exercise the car more frequently in areas that a manual may not be suited for like really twisty roads. Allows you to pay attention to the road and the balance of the car as you negotiate the turns.Smiley


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    Wow - not me and I don't see it from others either.  I like manuals and would prefer a sequential manual if anything for the track.  That is a preference and only a preference.  Hostility or venom does not come into play.  I do feel that Porsche should give us a choice but since I have kids I would not compare this to taking them away.  Settle down Nick and allow us to have an opinion without accusing us of such things.  No one is right!  PDK lovers are not 'right' and manual lovers are not 'right'.  Coke or Pepsi - makes no difference.  The used car values and the marketplace will make the rules.  Cheers Nick and lighten up, just a bit.  (Perhaps this is some liberal debate strategy that I am missing...call the other side overly critical hostile venomous degenerates - lol)BTW - I have driven manuals all my life.  I don't think about it at all.  I am able to 100% focus on the perfect line and shift a manual without thinking about it.  Without a doubt I can carry more speed into turns with a manual by rotating the car that last bit during trail braking and perfect clutch release.  It is coordination and like a ballet with the pedals - it requires no extra thought or concentration - it is another tool to make the car turn and go quicker.  The clutch and shifting never slows me down or spoils the perfect line.  Maybe I'm missing something.  Hope my comments are not too venomous - lol SmileyThe GT3 is awesome and so is Porsche.  Loving my old Mezger/Turbo manual!  Boost to all and to all a good night!  Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood, just GO and test a PDK, and just trying really driving it. You will be surprised about the extra speed you can get above what you can do with a manual. With quicker shifts you can break later, perfect shifts means you can change gear later and carry MORE speed through the turn, and the quicker shifts also means faster exit speed the other side. It was unreal. It does not act and perform like a regular auto or even the tip at all. The current gen PDK software is so good it really can read minds. 

    Words cannot describe it, even normal road test won't even show the advantage, it only shows up when pushed, like when you really need the advantage. 

    This manual vs pdk on the new GT3 is like the old air-cool vs water-cool debate, and about the case whether Porsche should have done the Cayenne. The choice has already been made for us and the outcome has also been decided, which is new will be better than old. We can either embrace it or stay behind. 

    I only embrace the pdk because it is so much better than the manual, had we been talking about the Corvette, I would be 100% behind the manual, their automatic is just too ancient and bad. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Whoopsy - I highly respect your opinion and advice!  I am a speed freak (who is not?) and take pride in being able to drive 911s very swiftly so I am in no way dis-interested in trying a PDK.  I am certain part of me would love it and see the logic behind it.  Sadly I am not in a position to 'try' one other than the few laps I have done in the dealers parking lot (seriously retarded dealer).  I buy slightly used, highly depreciated 911s only every six to eight years and keep them for a long time - on my 8th and driving Porsches since age 15. (first one was a 914 the rest 911)  My goal is fun and enjoyment for pennies per mile not hundreds of dollars per day and my 'formula' has served me well all these years.  I would not ever consider buying a new one or having more than one high performance car.  I am a steward of my wealth so that next generations may survive this world without being dependent on others.  High performance road cars in general are not good investments.  A 911 is simply a hell of a fun car and a great toy, nothing else.  It is just a car, simply the best one IMHO, and there are cheap ways to own one and have as much fun as those who buy new.  Now to my point - I do try to buy used 911s which entertain me and which hold value.  I do not see the 997.2 PDK or 991 PDK cars as being able to maintain their value - (bang for the buck ration if you will) - as well as the used manual 07 Turbo I just made my new best friend.  In a way Porsche is doing all the current manual owners a giant favor by dropping more and more manual options.  Great for everyone's used car values.  Keep in mind also that none of the PDKs are mated to the Mezger engine and NO Porsche 911 has raced on a track (cup car) without a Mezger engine.  Great news for all holders of the golden ticket to Porsche lasting value (manual GT3!).  Takes me back to the sequential manual we should get for the 991 GT3RS!  Without something like that the older GT3 will keep being sought after for a long time to come.  I digress.   All that said, I would love to be able to test a PDK - I am certain I would love it, but I would not want to drive it all the time - it would bore me to death.  Interestingly the aspect I would like the most is not the quick shifting but rather the overdrive 7th gear for my long distance drives and the increased gas mileage!  For this I would like the base 991 with PDK for max mileage.  (I know the GT3 does not have the tall overdrive 7th gear).  Finally -   My elevator is easier than me running up the stairs - I still race the 'riders' each morning up the stairs to the fourth floor.  At almost 50 I can still beat the elevator, no problem.  (PS born in Sept '63, outside Frankfurt - 911 twin)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:
     I'm very convinced that PDK on track is the way to go for the reasons you state.  But I like 'doing the dance' on the street.  The extra modulation in day to day driving provided by the clutch provides extra entertainment value in situations where you can't even come close to using the car's lofty potential.

    I guess I'm the opposite of many: with PDK I fear I would lose entertainment value on the street but look forward to the extra 'bandwidth' freed up b/t my ears when track driving.

    Thoughts?

    I have my Carrera S PDK since 4 1/2 year now, did 82'000 km with it. I take it to the track a few times a year, and I have been driving manual all my life before and disliked any automatic .

    I have, as of today, ( but that changes sometimes ) the exact same conclusion as you. On the track I want  to be fast and work on my line, so PDK is the way to go and I enjoy it a lot . Only time it gets boring is on an easy track with no car to take over.

    On day to day driving, PDK gets too boring .... as street boring is already boring, PDK just add another layer. So for a DD I want now manual.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Some time ago I talked to a stranger in a Starbucks on the subject of the manual vs pdk debate as I saw him came out of a very nice 993 Turbo. He whips out a Leica M9 with a 50mm f0.95, saying a manual transmission is like a M9 and pdk/auto is like a Nikon/Canon autofocus 'shit'. As it happens I had my camera with me, not my old H4D but my new Leica S. Told him the regular auto IS those Nikon 'shit' but the pdk is more like THIS camera. I had a M9 with the f0.95 too, but never touched it again after I got the H4D and now the Leica S. His jaw dropped for a couple seconds then the subject quickly changed to camera and he was playing with the S for a good 30 mins. Explained to him I decoupled the autofocus function from the shutter button so I get the best of both world, manual focus on command but always have autofocus at the ready. I suspected he ordered one once he got home. 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Guys, Porsche has a reputation on the line here with the new 991 GT3. From everything I heard, this car is amazing and this comes from people who drove it and drove it hard, including during the final days of development. They all love this car and Porsche engineers aren't easy to please in this regard. Mr. Preuninger was very upset with the negative comments on the internet for a reason: He put all his heart and brain into this project, this is his "baby", the people who work with him fully supported him on this project and the final result seems to be amazing. So why don't some of you give him and his team the benefit of a doubt and wait until you have actually DRIVEN the car?

    The new 991 GT3 is not just a Carrera on steroids, actually the engine and PDK and of course parts of the drivetrain are completely different.

    Take the 991 Turbo/Turbo S as an example: 90% of the parts on this new model are completely new compared to the "old" car. Porsche could have easily tweaked a few things here and there and add a new body to the "old" model. They didn't. The same goes for the new 991 GT3. Look at the performance data, look at the rumored track times, this car is faster on the track than the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, a car with 500 hp and the beloved Mezger engine.

    A little comment regarding Nick's claim that many complaint but most of these critics don't even think about getting the new 991 GT3: I have to agree. I encountered a similar problem on a German car forum, where I was discussing the 991 Turbo S and got attacked for "trashing" other car brands like Ferrari or Aston Martin (which I didn't btw., I just posted the obvious thoughts regarding flashy look, maintenance issues and in the case of AM performance issues)...in a thread titled "which one should I buy, 991 Turbo or Turbo S?". Funny, isn't it?

    This is the internet. People usually complaint or want to express their opinion, which in most cases is negative. Yes, people who are happy usually don't post as much as people who have issues with certain...issues. 

    We, the admins and mods, will try to do a better job by limiting unfounded criticism and trying to lead discussions in the direction of the particular thread title. We are not censoring, don't worry. Mea culpa, apparently we were too forgiving with repeated (and right now unfounded) criticism and deviation from the actual thread title, I am sorry about that. Me and others sometimes get a little bit off-topic, I have to apologize for that too but this is the nature of a discussion on the internet. However, we should really try to stick to the discussion based on the thread title. 

    So if someone has doubts that the new PDK in the new 991 GT3 will "deliver" or if you think manual is the better choice, just open a new thread and let's discuss this stuff. I am actually pretty sure that such discussions will end very fast because most people actually learned how to appreciate PDK or sequential shifting systems/etc. in other cars.

    Back to topic...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC.

    One of the best emails I have read on this thread. Well stated fair and concise...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    If I were buying a GT3 now, I would buy the 991 without a thought. I like a lot how it looks. I like a lot how it sounds. I like a lot how it seems to drive on track (based on the videos posted here also).

    I have fallen in love with Porsche and the GT3 ethos not only because the performance potential of the platform, which I will most certainly never be able to fully exploit. Mainly the attraction came from the genuine connection between the road going GT3 and the Cup of the same generation. I am fortunate to own a version of a 997 GT3, and have with my own hands bolted on many genuine Cup parts. This fact in itself adds to the joy of owning the car.

    None of the above can currently be applied to the 991 GT3. For me, this is unfortunate, and makes, in my opinion, 991 GT3 less attractive. Hence, Porsche has, in one possible view, moved away from the original GT3 ethos. We might like, not like or be ambivalent about that fact. I do not particularly like it, but can understand the technological advancement argument.

    There is a nagging disappointment that I have with the way Porsche has made some choices relevant to the 991 GT3 and communicated them (exclusive PDK-S, rear wheel steering, weight, engine not used in Motorsport). I understand this does not matter to some people. It does to me, and perhaps some others. It also, in my view, makes the 991 GT3 a different kind of GT3. It seems it is just not made in the same spirit as all the ones that came before.

    So spare a thought for those who are somewhat disappointed in the brand they feel very strongly about, disappointed about the change in direction it is taking some of its long held and communicated values.

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The motor will be used in motorsport in the near future.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    wurlie:

    If I were buying a GT3 now, I would buy the 991 without a thought. I like a lot how it looks. I like a lot how it sounds. I like a lot how it seems to drive on track (based on the videos posted here also).

    I have fallen in love with Porsche and the GT3 ethos not only because the performance potential of the platform, which I will most certainly never be able to fully exploit. Mainly the attraction came from the genuine connection between the road going GT3 and the Cup of the same generation. I am fortunate to own a version of a 997 GT3, and have with my own hands bolted on many genuine Cup parts. This fact in itself adds to the joy of owning the car.

    None of the above can currently be applied to the 991 GT3. For me, this is unfortunate, and makes, in my opinion, 991 GT3 less attractive. Hence, Porsche has, in one possible view, moved away from the original GT3 ethos. We might like, not like or be ambivalent about that fact. I do not particularly like it, but can understand the technological advancement argument.

    There is a nagging disappointment that I have with the way Porsche has made some choices relevant to the 991 GT3 and communicated them (exclusive PDK-S, rear wheel steering, weight, engine not used in Motorsport). I understand this does not matter to some people. It does to me, and perhaps some others. It also, in my view, makes the 991 GT3 a different kind of GT3. It seems it is just not made in the same spirit as all the ones that came before.

    So spare a thought for those who are somewhat disappointed in the brand they feel very strongly about, disappointed about the change in direction it is taking some of its long held and communicated values.

    Best, w

    I thought Preuninger had been quite explicit that:

    a) the rules do not allow the new GT3 engine to be used in Motorsport (at the current time) 

    b) when permitted, the GT3 engine most certainly will be the Motorsport engine

    ???


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    wurlie:

    If I were buying a GT3 now, I would buy the 991 without a thought. I like a lot how it looks. I like a lot how it sounds. I like a lot how it seems to drive on track (based on the videos posted here also).

    I have fallen in love with Porsche and the GT3 ethos not only because the performance potential of the platform, which I will most certainly never be able to fully exploit. Mainly the attraction came from the genuine connection between the road going GT3 and the Cup of the same generation. I am fortunate to own a version of a 997 GT3, and have with my own hands bolted on many genuine Cup parts. This fact in itself adds to the joy of owning the car.

    None of the above can currently be applied to the 991 GT3. For me, this is unfortunate, and makes, in my opinion, 991 GT3 less attractive. Hence, Porsche has, in one possible view, moved away from the original GT3 ethos. We might like, not like or be ambivalent about that fact. I do not particularly like it, but can understand the technological advancement argument.

    There is a nagging disappointment that I have with the way Porsche has made some choices relevant to the 991 GT3 and communicated them (exclusive PDK-S, rear wheel steering, weight, engine not used in Motorsport). I understand this does not matter to some people. It does to me, and perhaps some others. It also, in my view, makes the 991 GT3 a different kind of GT3. It seems it is just not made in the same spirit as all the ones that came before.

    So spare a thought for those who are somewhat disappointed in the brand they feel very strongly about, disappointed about the change in direction it is taking some of its long held and communicated values.

    Best, w

    Cup parts and all and the new 991 GT3 will probably still eat your 997 GT3 for breakfast. Smiley

    Add the upcoming GT3 RS to the equation, I really don't know what you complaint about???

    For street driving, most cup parts are illegal in Germany, so you may have bolted them on to your GT3 but this doesn't mean it became a better car. You just improved (depending on what you did and for what purpose, this could be questionable too) the track racing capabilities, so maybe you just didn't understand the stand of a GT3 and a GT3 Cup in the motorsport family? If you are using your car mainly for track racing, get a Cup, not the street version.
     

    I understand what you are trying to say but I think that you got the wrong idea of the GT3. The GT3 was never a race car but a very capable sports car with very good track capabilities.

    Which reminds me of a friend who raced a GT3 and then a GT3 RS in the Alpenpokal. In the end, he always wanted a more professional race car because everything was a compromise.

    The 991 GT3 is probably the fastest GT3 Porsche ever built but this is not a car you want to track race professionally. Get the Cup version or at least wait for the GT3 RS.

    Maybe Porsche marketing kind of created a false impression of the GT3 but I think Mr. Preuninger and others made pretty clear that the GT3 is a street car but one you can easily take to the track too for some track fun.

    You want a professional race car? Talk to Porsche Motorsport. They do this stuff but certainly not based on a street legal GT3.

    Like it or not but it wasn't different with the 997 GT3. Yes, there are tons of Cup parts available for this car but does this really help the typical GT3 customer with anything? Cup parts = most likely bye bye street legal status. So why not get a Cup car in the first place? Money? Well...thats a different story.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood, if you read my post carefully you will note that I was referring to criticism on ANOTHER board specifically Rennlist GT3 board.

    The manual/PDK discussion on this board has been civil and informative.Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    All, I purposefully did not say which 997 GT3 variant I had, as I think it is irrelevant for what is, in my view, an emotional discussion and choice.

    RC, you have your view of what Porsche tells you, I have mine on what Porsche tells ME. We respectfully disagree.

    I do not care if 991 GT3 will eat the car I drive for breakfast. The parts I have added to my car are street legal, and have been made so by a very respected racing shop. I see a connection between my car and the respective CUP car which I fail to see in the 991 GT3. This connection matters to me.

    I think it was different with the 997 CUP and GT3. Until they race the 991 GT3 engine, this will remain so.

    And by the way, the first real scoop on the 991 GT3 appeared on Rennlist. For the record.

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Sorry Nick - I will try to read more carefully.  Have a sunny day in CA!  Rain in the midwest - :-(  No summer here yet. 

    Regarding the GT3 not being a race car or track ready - it used to be much more so.  Sad that this is changing.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC, I’m calling bunk on your last post. You can’t talk through both sides of your mouth. The GT3 (in ALL of its forms) are made for track use. They may be less or more compromises towards streetability but they are made (or at least were before they were dumbed down) as track weapons. The original 964 RS was a cup car with carpet and rubber bushings in a few places! People bought them because they could drive them to the track, drive all day and then drive back. Just enough streetability to do that and still live if you have to take it to the store.

    Sure you could get a cup car, or an RSR! But you can’t drive that to the track. You drive the truck that is towing it, or more likely one of your pit crew drives the truck. Cup cars are EXPENSIVE to run. RSR’s are multiples more. As in doing a full track season on a cup car as an amateur not racing but just tracking it 15 day a year will cost well over $100k.

    Or you can buy a GT3, add some Cup car parts when you get fast enough to need them to go faster (suspension, brakes etc.) and it’s great because they bolt on!  

    I’ve trailered many race cars to drive around tracks for fun. Yes they are faster, yes they are more visceral and less compromised. Know what was the biggest pain though? Late Sunday afternoon when I’m dog tired I used to have to pack up, put the car on the trailer, do all the other things which took forever when all I wanted to do was get in my car and drive home like everyone in a GT3.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I need to understand something because honestly I am having difficulty following the logic of the main criticism of the 991GT3. Without question, the 991Gt3 will out perform/spank the 997 GT3 and RS who share parts with the 997Cup car. However, because for now the 991GT3 doesn't share parts with the 991Cup car (FWIW all indications it will) the 991GT3 is less of a race car than the 997 and 996 GT3's? 

    So performance in a DD/track car or whatever you want to call it is meaningless unless it share parts with a race car? Seriously?heart


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    I need to understand something because honestly I am having difficulty following the logic of the main criticism of the 991GT3. Without question, the 991Gt3 will out perform/spank the 997 GT3 and RS who share parts with the 997Cup car. However, because for now the 991GT3 doesn't share parts with the 991Cup car (FWIW all indications it will) the 991GT3 is less of a race car than the 997 and 996 GT3's? 

    So performance in a DD/track car or whatever you want to call it is meaningless unless it share parts with a race car? Seriously?heart

    Very logical - your logic Smiley Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Dear nberry - it makes no sense to you. I understand.

    It makes sense to me. Especially as an integral part of the Porsche communication about the GT3 has for a long time been about how close it is to a CUP.

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I used to fall into the camp of Wurlie.  I had the 996 and 997 GT3s, and had an Mitsu Evo that was closely connected to the chassis used in rally racing.

    I think the knowledge that your rig shares DNA with the racing variant is a pride thing.  It sticks in the back of your mind that your car is ‘special’, in a way that only a select few understand just how special it is.  It ends up a topic of discussion at track days and at cars and coffee.  When people ask about the car, you get to say it has the same seam welded chassis, or the same motor used in the non street legal racing version.

    This is not an attack on wurlie, just an observation in general about these types of cars.

    The same chest thumping about the connection to the racing version is similar to the chest thumping we have seen in other forums about the loss of the manual, about how it’s now soft, so accessible that mere housewives can now drive the car, that it’s no longer a real man’s car.  It seems the most zealous critics are those with a 997 GT car to defend, or aren’t even in the market for new metal but want to whine on the internet and call AP names.  Some are even self labeled pro drive instructors but have virtually no qualifications for that title, much less ever a podium finish in any pro race.  But I digress.

    I’m pleased that the 997 owners now get to enjoy the ‘last true GT car’ and enjoy the knowledge that their depreciation curves are, for the time being, flatter.  I have no dog in that fight.

    I’m really looking forward to the 991 GT3.  I’ve been driving manual for nearly 30 years and have had a long string of sporting manuals from Volkswagons GTI’s to Ferraris.   I can purchase pretty much anything I want but a true exotic, and I know this car is going to be a BLAST to drive.

    For now I will keep my 964 Turbo 3.6, a car that I get to tell people is rare, fast, appeared in a silly movie in the 90's, has no driver's aids, and is absolutely hairy to drive at the limit. . .  a car that your wife cannot drive or it will kill her.  But I suspect it will leave my garage quickly after the 3 shows up.

    --------------------------

    There are lots of rumors about the performance of the GT3.  One recent one that I read that came (supposedly) from an insider close to the chassis team on the new car, is that pre-production GT3s, perhaps with the suspension setup and tire that will be on the RS, were getting consistent 7.1x laptimes on the ring.  That is shockingly fast and if true goes to show you that there is still quite a bit of depth left in the GT3 chassis beyond it’s already mind boggling stated performance.

    Cheers.
     


    --
    997 GT3, in yeller 4.8is (daily beater) E36 M3 ltw, Euro motor (track car)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    I need to understand something because honestly I am having difficulty following the logic of the main criticism of the 991GT3. Without question, the 991Gt3 will out perform/spank the 997 GT3 and RS who share parts with the 997Cup car. However, because for now the 991GT3 doesn't share parts with the 991Cup car (FWIW all indications it will) the 991GT3 is less of a race car than the 997 and 996 GT3's? 

    So performance in a DD/track car or whatever you want to call it is meaningless unless it share parts with a race car? Seriously?heart

    It’s not that they share parts, it’s the fact that they are close enough in DNA that very well tested & known Cup car parts can be easily bolted onto GT3 cars for simple, effective and quantifiable upgrades. I'm a big believer in driving the car as fast as it will go then spending money to make it go faster. Putting cup car parts on a street GT3 was a great way to do that.

    There are lots of fly by night parts manufacturers who claim their parts increase performance but you know that Porsche parts are the real deal and have been tested well and thoroughly. I rarely like to be someone’s testbed…

    I also like the fact that the (older) GT3’s are detuned racers as opposed to heavily tuned street cars. It’s the difference between using parts made for heavy usage that are under stressed on a street car as opposed to making parts that will be right at the end of their envelope at the end of the car’s envelope. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    On real world.... Amazing kiss

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s800ZLYOexI


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    So good – thanks for posting!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Oh man SmileySmileySmiley  Like AP said, this car takes you by the stomach.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    pjd:

    On real world.... Amazing kiss

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s800ZLYOexI

    Stalls just like a manual.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Why it has difficulties with climbing to the truck?? yes For a moment I forgot that GT3 PDK instead of manual


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:

    Why it has difficulties with climbing to the truck?? yes For a moment I forgot that GT3 PDK instead of manual

    A properly driven manual would have less problems since the driver would feather the clutch instead of cycling the clutch engagement seen in the video.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    A proper transport would have had a winch to winch the car up, no need to drive up.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:
    pjd:

    On real world.... Amazing kiss

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s800ZLYOexI

    Stalls just like a manual.  

    Smiley

    But the question remains, how and why would this happen with a PDK box ? Smiley


     
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