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    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Gladstone:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    WAY:
    bluelines:

    Free energy. I can see a Nobel price coming up indecision

    Solar power already does that?

    Judging by the smiley I think bluelines already understood that I was referring to excess generating capacity available at night which is largely under-utilized. Coal fired plants don't really do well at scaling back at night and ramping up output in the morning. Overnight a large amount of heat generated is simply vented to the atmosphere instead of used to power the steam turbine. Many utilities have developed a large variety of ways to store and recover energy but there is still plenty left to waste at this time.

    Ironically, the very same coal plant which least lends itself to switching on and off quickly  -  and therefore generally continues to be run even at low-load periods  -  is the dirtiest source of electricity, and therefore makes the worst ecological case for EVs. 

    Most nuclear power plants also do not vary their operation at night. Windmills do not slow at night.  Smiley

    Lack of on demand efficiency and "dirty" are not necessarily the same thing.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    If only you could buy solar panels and batteries to store the electricity......wait.....didn't Elon solve that one too? indecision


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    EnglishManInNY:

    If only you could buy solar panels and batteries to store the electricity......wait.....didn't Elon solve that one too? indecision

    No, Elon Musk just did his usual PT Barnum act to make people think he was the one who came up with the solutions. Others had already done the heavy lifting and got there before him, but without the circus.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    apias:
    Gladstone:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    WAY:
    bluelines:

    Free energy. I can see a Nobel price coming up indecision

    Solar power already does that?

    Judging by the smiley I think bluelines already understood that I was referring to excess generating capacity available at night which is largely under-utilized. Coal fired plants don't really do well at scaling back at night and ramping up output in the morning. Overnight a large amount of heat generated is simply vented to the atmosphere instead of used to power the steam turbine. Many utilities have developed a large variety of ways to store and recover energy but there is still plenty left to waste at this time.

    Ironically, the very same coal plant which least lends itself to switching on and off quickly  -  and therefore generally continues to be run even at low-load periods  -  is the dirtiest source of electricity, and therefore makes the worst ecological case for EVs. 

    Most nuclear power plants also do not vary their operation at night. Windmills do not slow at night.  Smiley

    Lack of on demand efficiency and "dirty" are not necessarily the same thing.

    Wind turbines can be taken off-line quickly f the need arises just by turning them out of the wind, and nuclear power stations can be "throttled back" to an extent.

    My point was that trying to make a virtue of the inability of coal powered generators to react adequately to the night-time demand by saying that they could be used to recharge EVs at a reduced kWh rate makes a mockery of the ecological argument in favour of EVs. It'll be a different story when all coal power stations have been replaced by wind farms. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Lars997:

    The car looks from the front like a better looking Panamera.

    No doubt I will give a closer look to one and maybe buy one. It is time to test the future guys. The screen looks awkward but it is the future. All the other cars are still same concept like 100 years ago - not much changed. Great that Tesla is going new routes! It needs an visionary to change the common things in world.

    Fully agree, but a German, Italian or British V8 will always be on my garage, can´t leave without one Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    fritz:
    apias:
    Gladstone:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    WAY:
    bluelines:

    Free energy. I can see a Nobel price coming up indecision

    Solar power already does that?

    Judging by the smiley I think bluelines already understood that I was referring to excess generating capacity available at night which is largely under-utilized. Coal fired plants don't really do well at scaling back at night and ramping up output in the morning. Overnight a large amount of heat generated is simply vented to the atmosphere instead of used to power the steam turbine. Many utilities have developed a large variety of ways to store and recover energy but there is still plenty left to waste at this time.

    Ironically, the very same coal plant which least lends itself to switching on and off quickly  -  and therefore generally continues to be run even at low-load periods  -  is the dirtiest source of electricity, and therefore makes the worst ecological case for EVs. 

    Most nuclear power plants also do not vary their operation at night. Windmills do not slow at night.  Smiley

    Lack of on demand efficiency and "dirty" are not necessarily the same thing.

    Wind turbines can be taken off-line quickly f the need arises just by turning them out of the wind, and nuclear power stations can be "throttled back" to an extent.

    My point was that trying to make a virtue of the inability of coal powered generators to react adequately to the night-time demand by saying that they could be used to recharge EVs at a reduced kWh rate makes a mockery of the ecological argument in favour of EVs. It'll be a different story when all coal power stations have been replaced by wind farms. 

    +1 Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    fritz:
    EnglishManInNY:

    If only you could buy solar panels and batteries to store the electricity......wait.....didn't Elon solve that one too? indecision

    No, Elon Musk just did his usual PT Barnum act to make people think he was the one who came up with the solutions. Others had already done the heavy lifting and got there before him, but without the circus.  Smiley

    Oh no Dr Elon 'evil' Musk....guess he only built the biggest battery factory in the world. And makes his own solar panels. Thank god for his showmanship skills - otherwise they would have to spend a fortune on advertising. I guess he did copy something called the Rocket too to support his quest to reach mars.....shame on him! I guess he could have cheated instead.....


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    fritz:
    apias:
    Gladstone:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    WAY:
    bluelines:

    Free energy. I can see a Nobel price coming up indecision

    Solar power already does that?

    Judging by the smiley I think bluelines already understood that I was referring to excess generating capacity available at night which is largely under-utilized. Coal fired plants don't really do well at scaling back at night and ramping up output in the morning. Overnight a large amount of heat generated is simply vented to the atmosphere instead of used to power the steam turbine. Many utilities have developed a large variety of ways to store and recover energy but there is still plenty left to waste at this time.

    Ironically, the very same coal plant which least lends itself to switching on and off quickly  -  and therefore generally continues to be run even at low-load periods  -  is the dirtiest source of electricity, and therefore makes the worst ecological case for EVs. 

    Most nuclear power plants also do not vary their operation at night. Windmills do not slow at night.  Smiley

    Lack of on demand efficiency and "dirty" are not necessarily the same thing.

    Wind turbines can be taken off-line quickly f the need arises just by turning them out of the wind, and nuclear power stations can be "throttled back" to an extent.

    My point was that trying to make a virtue of the inability of coal powered generators to react adequately to the night-time demand by saying that they could be used to recharge EVs at a reduced kWh rate makes a mockery of the ecological argument in favour of EVs. It'll be a different story when all coal power stations have been replaced by wind farms. 

    I'm not sure if "makes a mockery" is the correct term here. If you don't buy an EV, coal powered generators are not going to suddenly stop making electricity. Reality is that billions have been spent on this infrastructure and like it or not it is going to continue to provide electricity. So if you don't use it to charge your EV, it will go to "waste" as they will still be generated. For me personally I will be utilising solar panels and storage battery where possible (and there are cheaper options than a Tesla wall battery!), but I recognise that not everyone live in an environment conducive to this. 


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Reuters says Tesla Motors has teamed up with LG Display to create the 15-inch landscape-oriented touchscreen for the infotainment system. Reuters is citing an undisclosed source within the company who also said the screens of the Model S and Model X are made by someone else.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    J.Seven:
    Lars997:

    The car looks from the front like a better looking Panamera.

    No doubt I will give a closer look to one and maybe buy one. It is time to test the future guys. The screen looks awkward but it is the future. All the other cars are still same concept like 100 years ago - not much changed. Great that Tesla is going new routes! It needs an visionary to change the common things in world.

    Fully agree, but a German, Italian or British V8 will always be on my garage, can´t leave without one Smiley

    This for sure. But especially in your case, driving through city, minding the rush hour a Tesla with its auto-pilot may have its place.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    WAY:
    fritz:
    apias:
    Gladstone:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    WAY:
    bluelines:

    Free energy. I can see a Nobel price coming up indecision

    Solar power already does that?

    Judging by the smiley I think bluelines already understood that I was referring to excess generating capacity available at night which is largely under-utilized. Coal fired plants don't really do well at scaling back at night and ramping up output in the morning. Overnight a large amount of heat generated is simply vented to the atmosphere instead of used to power the steam turbine. Many utilities have developed a large variety of ways to store and recover energy but there is still plenty left to waste at this time.

    Ironically, the very same coal plant which least lends itself to switching on and off quickly  -  and therefore generally continues to be run even at low-load periods  -  is the dirtiest source of electricity, and therefore makes the worst ecological case for EVs. 

    Most nuclear power plants also do not vary their operation at night. Windmills do not slow at night.  Smiley

    Lack of on demand efficiency and "dirty" are not necessarily the same thing.

    Wind turbines can be taken off-line quickly f the need arises just by turning them out of the wind, and nuclear power stations can be "throttled back" to an extent.

    My point was that trying to make a virtue of the inability of coal powered generators to react adequately to the night-time demand by saying that they could be used to recharge EVs at a reduced kWh rate makes a mockery of the ecological argument in favour of EVs. It'll be a different story when all coal power stations have been replaced by wind farms. 

    I'm not sure if "makes a mockery" is the correct term here.

    Well, I wouldn't want to get sidetracked into discussing the semantics of every post I write, but I think you would you agree that it is a contradiction to drive an EV based on ecological considerations and then fully accept that it has to be recharged using electricity generated from coal. In some of the Tesla's strongest markets its widespread adoption would currently result in coal-powered electricity generation having to be ramped up or plant due to be made obsolete staying on line longer than would otherwise be the case, as there is no viable short-term alternative.  

    As I suggested above, It's a different story when coal power stations are displaced by wind farms, or solar plant in the case of those who can recharge their EVs during daylight as you do. 

     If you don't buy an EV, coal powered generators are not going to suddenly stop making electricity. Reality is that billions have been spent on this infrastructure and like it or not it is going to continue to provide electricity. So if you don't use it to charge your EV, it will go to "waste" as they will still be generated.

    In some parts of the world coal power plants are being decommissioned due to their high CO2 output, but they cannot be replaced quickly enough to maintain or even increase electricity supply, as called for by the market. Events in Fukushima didn't help, as they once again raised the question of nuclear-plant safety in people's minds, reducing for many the range of acceptable alternatives. The UK, for example, is heading into a potential energy crisis at this time, due to dithering and lack of real planning on the part of governments over the last couple of decades.  

    The widespread use of EVs in the markets finding themselves in this situation would only compound this problem.

    For me personally I will be utilising solar panels and storage battery where possible (and there are cheaper options than a Tesla wall battery!), but I recognise that not everyone live in an environment conducive to this. 

    Which was one aspect of the point I was making when I wrote in another post above that it was not Musk who first came up with this solution, as so many of his fans allow themselves to be misled into believing. Other companies already have systems on the market, whereas Musk announced a product well in advance of the completion of the Gigafactory which is meant to produce it, and in fact he has already had to drop plans to produce the larger version of the wall battery when confronted with the realities of the market. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    I agree with what you said Fritz, and the sooner we can move away from coal to more efficient/environmentally acceptable solution, the better it is for everyone. One thing though. Not everyone is buying an EV because they want to save the world. To some EV is just cool, or because it suits their lifestyle. Typically these are the traditional Apple users 😜. All jokes aside, however you look at it, Model 3 is a good car with many advantages over its traditional rivals like the 3 series, such as low COG, instant torque, better crumple zone, quiet ride etc. As a result many will be sold, provided Tesla can deliver. 


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    WAY:

     One thing though. Not everyone is buying an EV because they want to save the world. To some EV is just cool, or because it suits their lifestyle. 

    And I admit it is these diverse interests in the EV crowd that is a bit scary... because there is a contingent for whom EVs are the easiest solution to self-driving cars, and part of a dream to get manually driven cars off the road.  Forget manual shifting, maybe what we need to protect is just the act of driving itself....  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Watch a Tesla Model S drag race a Boeing 737 http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1103222_watch-a-tesla-model-s-drag-race-a-boeing-737


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Tesla hasn't actually shown us the Model 3's real interior http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1103244_tesla-hasnt-actually-shown-us-the-model-3s-real-interior


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    To start with I just can point out that I'm not at all against EV and will for sure consider buying one in a couple of years. But that will be the daily driver and to stimulate those emotions I need to have a sport car in my garage with a real engine and a good exhaust.

    The main problem with the Model 3 is that what they are doing is to allow orders on a car that does not exist. Almost a prototype. Just reading the tweets from Musk is giving me a laugh. There are so many things with this car that aint' ready. It wouldn't be much different if Porsche put up the Mission E for sale or any other prototype for that sake.

    How on earth should Tesla be able to ramp up the production and deliver? If they do it to quick there for SURE will be huge quality issues. Just wait and see. It can be a very difficult period ahead for Tesla if they don't play their cards right. And why do I want to order a car now that I might not get until in 3 years. In 2019 there will be many more alternatives from the German brands that probably are MUCH more attractive. At least to me.

    Comparing the Tesla "success/hype" for the pre-orders with Apple is just plain ridiculous. It is far easier to scale the production of a small phone than it is to produce a complex car with all things involved in this process. The apple hype also happened over a longer time period.

    Another thing is that they haven't even started to delivery Model X in a large scale and now they in parallel launch the Model 3 and still believe they can deliver to some sort of road map. I will not be surprised at all if the postpone the delivery plan over and over... How long will the Tesla customers want to wait?

    If the Model 3 could be on my drive within next 6 months and with reliable quality I would honestly consider it as my next DD. But since this is not possible I will look at other alternatives.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Gnil:

    My wife wants a Tesla. Now she asks me how long is delivery for the 3 , to replace her Mini clubman JCW. 

    Tesla is the new iPhone. People find it so cool , different , new, modern and absolutely want one.

    Are you sure she would be happy with that large display and all the electronics? My wife hates this. Also, she thinks that Tesla is not cool. A Lamborghini Huracan is cool (we saw one at Aventura Mall a few days ago, looks great...).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Come on RC,

    a Huracan is a poser car - this car is not cool. With this car you have to hide yourself unless your are a new rich guy from Russia or so. Tesla is modern, clean and pretty cool (not the best car) - you can drive it and nobody would think anything negative about you. Huracan is the total opposite. 


    --

    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Central screen is so hideous and kinda funny  You can only imagine that Americans would install so large screen in car smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiWOKBMTDvc


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    ALDO:

    Come on RC,

    a Huracan is a poser car - this car is not cool. With this car you have to hide yourself unless your are a new rich guy from Russia or so. Tesla is modern, clean and pretty cool (not the best car) - you can drive it and nobody would think anything negative about you. Huracan is the total opposite. 

    Thanks god. Smiley

    Huracan is a poser car? Says a GT3 RS owner? Smiley My wife considers every car with a huge wing on the back a poser car but not in a very positive sense. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Lukas:

    The main problem with the Model 3 is that what they are doing is to allow orders on a car that does not exist. Almost a prototype. ....   And why do I want to order a car now that I might not get until in 3 years. In 2019 there will be many more alternatives from the German brands that probably are MUCH more attractive. At least to me.

    Yes, this is the point Noone1 made earlier in this thread. As long as an option on a future choice is free, rational people will usually take (ie. buy) this option, because why not?  You can always optimize your results at this future time, about 2 years away still, even if this means that you choose some other car.  Keeping the option for a place in an assembly line cost you nothing.   If, on the other hand, real money was involved (ie. non refundable, like when buying a financial derivative) then the calculation becomes different, and clearly far fewer people would consider this a logical option to hold, depending on the real cost.   


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    There is the cost of money of US$1k deposit for 2-3 years. So it does cost real money, of a few hundred dollars I supposed. 


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    I wonder where is cut line for trunk door smiley


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    It's the metal bit that opens up, resulting in a small rectangular boot opening. One of the first rides YouTube video shows the boot opening. 


    Re: Tesla Model 3


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Lukas:

    Hmm... Most womens that rave about Model 3 need to see this picture. 


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    KresoF1:

    Hmm... Most womens that rave about Model 3 need to see this picture. 

    Yes, the Swedish language has that natural sexual attraction to women Smiley Whisper "gångjärn" in their ears and be prepared to get your clothes ripped off your body...


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    WTF kind of trunk is that?! Unless I've been doing it wrong, that trunk looks like a PITA.

    Also, I don't know how I feel about that big screen. It looks incredibly annoying to drive with at night.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Well trunk is epic fail mail


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    That trunk is perfect for pizza deliveries


     
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