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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    “CR’s findings indicate that giving Teslas the authority to make lane changes without driver participation — that is, without confirmation via the turn-signal stalk — may be premature. Its testers reported that their vehicles “often changed lanes in ways that a safe human driver would not —cutting too closely in front of other cars, and passing on the right.””

    Well I get cut off in an unsafe manner 2 to 10 times for every commute I make, yet have not observed the behavior CR is implying from the autopilot lane change. In MY experience, the Tesla autopilot on the highway is vastly safer than humans. Passing on the right is the norm. I have found that the cars makes lane changes that I would characterize as unnecessary though, but not unsafe. Since you have to pay attention, you just tell the car not to do it.

    The only unsafe case I observed on the highway is when the road markings are completely gone. The driving was unsafe because the car will behave in ways that drivers around you will not expect because it is trying to guess where the lanes and the road is. Also as written here before, merging into a heavy traffic lane from a ramp just does not work well, sometimes it just gives up.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog - don't waste your time and energy on these guys in here. It ain't worth it and it will give you nothing. Just move on!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You may not care if TSLA trades at $100 or $500 but the capital markets do.  Tesla does not have infinite borrowing capabilities and its currently issued debentures have covenants that place restrictions on the amount of debt Tesla can issue based on cash flow ratios and other parameters.  The capital markets with the widening Tesla term structure above UST is already starting to price in a credit downgrade and the increased probability of default.  

    Tesla is not a startup and after it went public nearly ten years ago, it has had only three profitably quarters with profitability resulting from regulatory artifacts, not cash flow from operations.  Amazon, for example, has lacked profitability but it also operated under negative working capital needs.  Tesla, interestingly enough, started with a business model that neatly mapped toward negative working capital under its build-to-order system for the Model S and Model X.  Unfortunately, Musk became fixated on growing scale through the Model 3, which moved away from that build-to-order model to a finished goods inventory model.  Tesla, unlike the other automakers, owns its sales and distribution network so a car, under the current system is not recorded as revenue until it is physically sold to the end user.  In the dealer model, automakers typically book revenue once a car exits the backdoor of the production facility, destined for a dealer's lot.  Inventory carry costs are expensive.  Henry Ford and then Toyota understood this.  They developed production systems to mitigate inventory carry costs.  

    Sorry that you and Lukestern do not agree with these assessments; however, I will not lessen the message to assuage one's angst.  

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For my taste we are writing too much about the financials of Tesla and not about the cars and the tech. My vote is for a  "Tesla" Board, with "Tesla Biz" and "Tesla Cars" sections; or make an "EV" board with Tesla and Porsche sections; just separate the biz talk from the tech.  

    - Rick


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:

    For my taste we are writing too much about the financials of Tesla and not about the cars and the tech. My vote is for a  "Tesla" Board, with "Tesla Biz" and "Tesla Cars" sections; or make an "EV" board with Tesla and Porsche sections; just separate the biz talk from the tech.  

    - Rick

    In this case the two are intertwined.  Recall that once Duesenberg was once the world's finest automobile to only fade into oblivion because of poor financial performance. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The whole EV market would't have existed if not for government subsidy program. And Tesla's business model is build around that. 

    Are EV good for the environment? In certain markets, yes. Others, not so much. 

    Tesla EV is a lifestyle product, it's a premium EV, there are other cheaper alternatives if one wants to go green. But for certain people with certain lifestyle and wanted to project a certain image, they fits the bill.

    They were the only game in town for the longest time, if people want a premium EV, they have to get a Tesla. Very unlike the sport car market where there are competitions, people don't have to buy a 911, they can go get a McLaren. Or a Lamborghini. 

    But with all the incoming premium EVs, Tesla is facing stiff competition, on top of reducing or disappearing government subsidies that severely affect their business model.

    Making a car that not too many wants doesn't help. Yes the Model 3 was a great seller early in product life as there is a ton of pent up demand for the cheaper Tesla, but those are long gone and the market wants crossovers instead of sedans. Tesla made a big mistake making the Model 3 sedan first instead of the Model Y crossover. But then again they were probably banking on people upgrading their Model 3 to Model Y to sustain their sales. 

    Elon has made too many distractions with Tesla, his mind is not focusing on making Tesla great. On paper Solar City seems to be a nice match to a EV car company, the Tesla battery wall also seems like a good idea, and a perfect outlet for his battery factory. But these side shows distracted from their core business. 

    If a company is successful and have plenty of cash, then a side project here and there doesn't hurt, but Tesla is far from successful and they are practically broke, these side shows are just more money sink for the parent company. 

    Elon definitely isn't managing Tesla responsibly. He is do a disservice to all the Tesla fanboys. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This gets into the subjects of capital budgeting and product planning.  The majors invests heavily in product planning with carefully choreographed market studies to develop product to meet perceived customer demand.  Even then there are times when the product doesn't have any viable markets.  This is, in part, why the majors are reticent to enter the EV field.  Musk, on the other hand, shoots from the hip and believes that he is of superior intellect to determine what will meet market demand.  Concentrating on crossovers not only meets current market demand, it also benefits from the current state of technology of EVs with higher ground clearances for large battery packs.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Sure, this is true for all companies and esp the German OEMs right now. I'm not saying, that we should not have this discussion, but I find it boring and would rather have it in a separate section that I can easily ignore.

    At the end of day the tech will survive (or replaced by something better), with or without Tesla and this is what's interesting. Just my 2ct  wink


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:

    For my taste we are writing too much about the financials of Tesla and not about the cars and the tech. My vote is for a  "Tesla" Board, with "Tesla Biz" and "Tesla Cars" sections; or make an "EV" board with Tesla and Porsche sections; just separate the biz talk from the tech.  

    - Rick

    Personally, I think the financial situation is tightly linked to the cars. The current situation reflects serious strategic and operational problems (resulting from cars not attractive enough to possible buyers). Also, the financial distress will distract possible buyers. Who wants to buy/own a car of a company that might be bankrupt soon? Also, how trending is a car of a company in distress? It is very not-trending very soon...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It looks like Tesla sales in China may have peaked... Smiley

    1558554780569image.png

    1558555106504image.png

    1558555115545image.png

    ...Q2 results may be worse than Q1? Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If true that will be a real world of hurt for the Company.  

    On the slightly side topic and I am not quite sure where to post this one, I have read no commentary on Rennteam about the EU's speed limiters to be installed on new automobiles starting in 2022.  This is the dark side of technology movement within automobiles.  In part, Tesla helped usher in some of the technology that makes realtime speed enforcement possible by having continuous contact with its cars.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    These graphs of China sales is just another good example of charts posted by TSLAQ to push their negative agenda further...

    Tesla does hardly ship any cars to either China or Europe for delivery the first 6-7 weeks beginning of each quarter. So april deliveries are just left overs that was not possible to deliver the quarter before. This is similar to the European figures and specifically Model 3 are built in Fremont for international markets the first month each quarter. Then all the cars are in transit and delivered mainly during last month each quarter.

    So that the april figures in Europe and China are down 70% does have ZERO to do with demand. Difference is that Tesla operate their logistic in a very different way than other manufacturers. They build in bulk and deliver in bulk. There are Zero Model 3 built to customer spec.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    While respecting that customers may hold a different view, the consensus on Wall Street is that Tesla appears to have a demand problem... Smiley

    "One of Tesla's biggest bulls just turned around and trashed the company on a private call with Wall Street"

    1558559339329image.jpeg

    • In a private call with clients, Morgan Stanley analyst and Tesla perma bull Adam Jonas painted a bleak picture for the company he's been touting for so long. 
    • Jonas sees Tesla floundering under its debt load now that it's no longer a growth story. 
    • He also sees the company's next moves — the new Model Y, the refresh of the Models S and X — as insufficient to bring it back to good. 
    • "Maybe retail consumers aren't ready to get into the segment the way Elon thought they were," he mused. 
    • Tesla did not immediately respond to a request for comment on this story. 

    (22 May 2019)

    No one can say that analyst Adam Jonas of Morgan Stanley has not been a true believer in Tesla. For years he has been one of the company's biggest cheerleaders, an Evangelist for its technology and a supporter of Elon Musk's vision for the auto industry. 

    But on private a call with Wall Street clients on Wednesday, Jonas sounded like there was little hope that the company would go back to being the growth story he loved any time soon. Business Insider obtained a copy of the call. 

    Jonas kicked off the call by telling a tale of two companies — one company investors saw at the end of Q4 2018, and another they're seeing now. In Q4 2018, Tesla demand was exceeding supply, cash flow was strong, and "by our lens," said Jonas, "there was excitement around the Model Y." 

    Now everything has changed. Here's how Jonas put it. 

    "Today supply exceeds demand, they're burning cash, nobody cares about the Model Y, the company raised capital near lows, no strategic buy-in... There could have been a strategic involvement in the capital raise — someone to fill the board to provide some know-how..." 

    But there wasn't, Jonas bemoaned. And now Tesla is not a growth story, "it's a distressed credit story." 

    The angel of debt

    The problem, at its most basic level, is debt. Jonas still believes that Tesla's technology is second to none. For example, he told listeners that he's been all over the world talking to people about the company's autonomous driving technology, for example, and experts say it's incredible. 

    "Does it mean the company is worth more than its debt? No," he said. 

    After the first quarter, Tesla is holding about $13 billion in gross debt $18 billion in net debt, according to Jonas' calculations. That's fine when you're growing, it's death when you're not. Jonas thinks it's possible that Tesla could deliver around just 70,000 cars in Q2, putting it on track to sell 250,000 for the year — 100,000 cars lower than the company has projected. 

    That would send Tesla on a road to perdition, Jonas explained. And by 2020 the company would need a massive infusion of capital or "to be seeking strategic alternatives for the company." 

    The market knows this already. For one thing, prices to insure Tesla's debt are at an all-time high. For another, Morgan Stanley's industrials specialist Mark van der Pluym was also on the call, and he said that over the last week, 3/4ths of the Tesla's stock he's sold has been to short sellers. 

    "It's the first time I can remember sentiment in Tesla matches with broader sentiment in the auto sector," said van der Pluym. 

    Rescue rangers

    The questions that followed Jonas' dirge were all about what could possibly come to Tesla's rescue. 

    • Could Tesla advertise to save itself? Jonas responded that the company already had great brand recognition and that advertising would be "a disturbing development." 
    • What about selling electric vehicle credits to other automakers? Jonas thinks that will only bring in around $100 million a quarter. 
    • What about lowering prices to save the company? No those levers have been pulled, Jonas said. 
    • What about leasing? Jonas responded by asking where Tesla would find the third party financial partner willing to gamble on the company's lack of information about the residual value of its cars. 
    • Model S and X refresh? Would that help? "We're not going to be having this call in December saying the S/X refresh really saved demand this year," Jonas said "It's gotta be on the Model 3. That's the emphasis." Plus, he said that the refresh would only change what would be a 50% decline in S/X sales to a 30% decline. 
    • What if Tesla could be purchased by another tech firm, like Apple? Jonas doesn't see that happening either. He doesn't think the firms want to take the risk of buying an automaker where the cars sometimes burst into flames. 'Perhaps these big tech firms don't want to expose themselves to that up front... and they realize the autonomous race is more like a marathon." 
    • What about the new China factory? "Could there be a worse time for China to be selling robot cars," Jonas asked. He also noted that — trade tensions between the US and China aside — the Chinese car market is in dire straights right now. It would take a gargantuan effort to surmount these obstacles and "we don't think investors are willing to pay for that right now," Jonas said. 

    Jonas made it clear that this story is about the debt now. If someone could get a hold of Telsa's assets, cut the company's headcount, and get rid of the debt. "There's tremendous value there," he said. 

    But that doesn't help in a world that, Jonas now worries, just isn't ready for EV's.

    "Maybe retail consumers aren't ready to get into the segment the way Elon thought they were."

    Tesla did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.

    Link:  https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-analyst-adam-jonas-slams-company-private-call-2019-5


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     



    Re: Tesla Roadster

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    And that is why the old guard is freaking out:

     

    Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Comparison: Who Builds the Best Compact Luxury Sedan?

    https://apple.news/AgoTJKzHFR4aj2HGmq0EcXA

    in 10 years Tesla has managed to build a car that’s on top of very reputable magazines comparaisons and has won many “car of the year” and such including the highest score for any car ever from Consumer Reports. 10 years, not a lot of cash considering they started from scratch, a crazy CEO, a huge personnel turnover.

    Just think about it, if 10 years ago someone told you this would happen, you would never have believed it. Yet here we are. But here is the scary part: give Tesla 5-10 more years and a confortable capital cushion (simply by being cash flow positive for example) and just the potential is phenomenal.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A EV car is not something new, manufacturers made them over 100 years ago.

    The technology for making a EV is also common knowledge, making a electric motor is quite a bit simpler than designing and making a combustion engine. Same with making a battery pack. 

    Initially, Tesla has this feel good story about them, first startup American automaker in a long time, and it carved out a EV segment from nowhere, but with the help of government subsidies. 

    No one really paid much attention initially, it's a niche segment, Tesla took advantage of that and owns the monopoly.

    Now that EV cars are getting into focus, other manufacturers are jumping into the pond to get a slice of the revenue. The pie is only so big, someone is bound to lose, and that someone will be the initial player, the one that hold the monopoly, Tesla. Yes the pie will grow bigger in time, but that growth is much smaller than the rate market share are lost. The general public simply isn't ready for a EV car yet, while EV cars are selling quite well, that's still a minority of people. The infrastructure simply isn't there outside of a few select cities, having a EV car outside of those cities is simply an inconvenience. 

    Tesla fans say they have an ace up their sleeve, Autopilot. But 2 problem, first, the name is misleading, it is just a glorified cruise control, second, they are the only one using that technology while everyone else moved onto LIDAR. Perhaps the competition could be wrong if it was just one company doing it, but when EVERYONE is using LIDAR, then one has to wonder if camera based recognition is actually the wrong choice.

    There are slandering and exaggerations from both sides of the coin, everyone is guilty. There are no saints there. The Tesla fanboys have a million reasons to prop up their choice, they needed to prove to everyone else that they made the right choice and they are at the forefront of the future. The people on the other side, of course have reasons to down play Tesla stuff, if they are shorting the stock, they wanted the stock to go down. But why would they want such a thing in the first place? They see something that's not right, doesn't compute to correspond to whatever the stock price is. Hence they bet on the stock to go down. Others simply don't like EV period and wanted the company to go away.

    Another big argument from the fanboys is that Tesla made the other manufacturers scared. Well the reality is quite the contrary. Other car makers are flush with cash, something Tesla don't have, and they can use that cash to hedge their bets, make both and they can't lose. Plus, they have been selling cars for so long, and they have been running market research for so long, they know what their customers want, and it's not EV. A minority might, but the majority are still waiting for the infrastructure supporting EV first. Chicken and egg. 

     

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    First I do not agree with your “EV is only ready in a few cities” argument. EV is a problem ONLY in large cities. In the rest of the country, just charge at home. You can even use your electric dryer plug, basically everyone has one.

    Second, if large old groups like VW, BMW or Mercedes are so good at what they do, how do you explain that today there are ZERO of their cars in my large garage? How do you explain that Tesla is the largest represented brand on my office parking lot? How do you explain that every EV build today has Tesla in their crosshairs? It is simple, they missed the EV and software train and now they are a good 5 years behind. Like everyone else, they thought Tesla was going to fail. They were wrong (so far).

    Can VW beat Tesla at their own game? Maybe yes. Maybe no. But by the time they do, it might be too late and Tesla might sell 500,000+ cars a year and be stable financially.

    Opinions matter, especially when they are back by where ones $$$ goes.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    And that is why the old guard is freaking out:

     

    Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Comparison: Who Builds the Best Compact Luxury Sedan?

    https://apple.news/AgoTJKzHFR4aj2HGmq0EcXA

    in 10 years Tesla has managed to build a car that’s on top of very reputable magazines comparaisons and has won many “car of the year” and such including the highest score for any car ever from Consumer Reports. 10 years, not a lot of cash considering they started from scratch, a crazy CEO, a huge personnel turnover.

    Just think about it, if 10 years ago someone told you this would happen, you would never have believed it. Yet here we are. But here is the scary part: give Tesla 5-10 more years and a confortable capital cushion (simply by being cash flow positive for example) and just the potential is phenomenal.

    So did Duesenberg in the 1920s and 1930s.   Just like Duesenberg, as part of E. L. Cord empire, Tesla, quarter after quarter, has failed to become profitable.  If a company consistently fails to become profitable, it fails to exist.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Eventually yes, but these days many companies are allowed to loose a lot of money for a long time. There is a lot of fluff money in the system today due to large central bank QE around the world. Plus it is not clear how much Tesla can shrink, and once again, just wipe debt interest, trim a little cost here and there and Tesla is probably already profitable today. So your argument does not hold. The media is just spinning the bear Tesla story this week because it sells A LOT of ads. The stock is gearing up for a potential monster short squeeze as apparently the short interest has grown as the stock was going down. If Tesla Q2 is even just “OK” the wild ride will continue.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Eventually yes, but these days many companies are allowed to loose a lot of money for a long time. There is a lot of fluff money in the system today due to large central bank QE around the world. Plus it is not clear how much Tesla can shrink, and once again, just wipe debt interest, trim a little cost here and there and Tesla is probably already profitable today. So your argument does not hold. The media is just spinning the bear Tesla story this week because it sells A LOT of ads. The stock is gearing up for a potential monster short squeeze as apparently the short interest has grown as the stock was going down. If Tesla Q2 is even just “OK” the wild ride will continue.

    Capital always finds its highest and best use.  It remains a scarce resource.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    In this age of index investing taking over, that is not quite true either.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    First I do not agree with your “EV is only ready in a few cities” argument. EV is a problem ONLY in large cities. In the rest of the country, just charge at home. You can even use your electric dryer plug, basically everyone has one.

    Second, if large old groups like VW, BMW or Mercedes are so good at what they do, how do you explain that today there are ZERO of their cars in my large garage? How do you explain that Tesla is the largest represented brand on my office parking lot? How do you explain that every EV build today has Tesla in their crosshairs? It is simple, they missed the EV and software train and now they are a good 5 years behind. Like everyone else, they thought Tesla was going to fail. They were wrong (so far).

    Can VW beat Tesla at their own game? Maybe yes. Maybe no. But by the time they do, it might be too late and Tesla might sell 500,000+ cars a year and be stable financially.

    Opinions matter, especially when they are back by where ones $$$ goes.

     

    You are ONE sample among hundreds of millions of car buyers. 

    So am I, where I don't have any Tesla or EV cars. My city is one of the greenest electricity source in the world, 100% hydroelectric. There are many Teslas in town, and we don't have a highway in the middle of the city, so it's all city driving, primary purpose of a Tesla. Yet, Teslas are still a minority as compared to everything else. Heck, daily you will see more Ferrari McLaren and Lamborghini than Tesla. And charging is still a problem for most people. Majority of people living in the city is not on individual houses where they can have their own plug, condos have a few charging spots built into the parkade but not enough for everyone. Same with office and street parking where the availability of plugins spots is close to zero. 

    That makes 2 samples and it's 50-50% now. 

    You are over estimating Tesla's research. Research consists of time and money, and money shorten time needed. That so called 5 year research lead? It's pretty much down to a year if that much. And unless a miracle or 2 happened, Tesla is not selling half a million cars this year, the last year of their monopoly. Next year we will see the true competitiveness of Tesla cars vs their peers in the EV segment.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    We are exactly on the same page for cities, they are the hardest places of adoption vs the rest of the country. Not sure what you point is there. But I can tell you that in my city, there are plenty of Teslas because by now many parkings have chargers, on my street my parking has 3 and the other parking has also 3... Plus people coming from out out town have more than enough juice to come and not need to charge.

    Sorry but you think that BMW, Mercedes or VW can have Tesla software and EV efficiency in ONE year? That claim is as ridiculous as Musk and it’s robotaxis in one year. Add on top the 4+3=7 refresh cycle of these companies, even IF they catches up in lets say 2-3 years, they would be obsolete for quite some time soon after. Plus if what you said was true about software, that means that they have delayed selling cars with good software for a couple of decades “just because”.

    So far Tesla is being its own enemy for sales of new cars. There are apparently quite a number of used S for sale these days and since they age very well with little battery degradation and updated softwares, they are a very compelling choice vs a new one. The other issue for S sales is that the Model 3 is more than good enough for a lot of people and the S does not quite justify the price difference if you don’t need the extra space or the ultimate longest range. What the S needs more than anything IMHO is a 120+kw battery and ventilated seats, plus maybe a new killer tech feature no one else has (for example use your car as an extra PowerWall, video conference calls built in, some basic social media and sharing feature that makes sense in a car, some form of AR, real time free parking space monitor and sharing, who knows, so many possibilities and that’s where Apple could come in). The interior is totally fine. Marketing wise, a 400 miles range S would be VERY compelling and I have the feeling it is within sight. Once again, the possibilities seem so open because they are not afraid to move fast and backtrack if it doesn’t work. They are the only ones who can do this today.

    Dog mode, sentry mode, summon... to some it is a joke but eventually something will stick that will make everyone in awe. BTW there is a strong rumor fortnite is coming to a Tesla near you angry


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The 4+3 years update is much better than Tesla's 7+ years no update you know.

    A properly designed and debugged system doesn't need constant software updates. Look at Apple vs Windows.

    Most infotainment system runs Apple CarPlay now, so whether they are updated or to is a moot point.

    Pretty much every thing Tesla fans boasted that their car has and no one else does is fluff, plain and simple. It's not needed for everyday usage and they are just novelties. Nothing more. Including the cruise control system,.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

     

    Yes the pie will grow bigger in time, but that growth is much smaller than the rate market share are lost. The general public simply isn't ready for a EV car yet, while EV cars are selling quite well, that's still a minority of people. The infrastructure simply isn't there outside of a few select cities, having a EV car outside of those cities is simply an inconvenience. 

     

    That's indeed a key question: will there be significant demand for EV cars if not heavily subsidized by the tax payer. I don't expect EV to take significant market shares in relevant markets except for China. Hybrid yes. Other efficient technologies yes. But EV no. I have been firm on this view all the time....


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    We are exactly on the same page for cities, they are the hardest places of adoption vs the rest of the country.

    My view: EV is only attractive for city use. Outside of cities EV does not make sense at all. Will never gain much market share there: too expensive, inefficient, inconvenient.

    In summary: outside of China (where the government decides most things disgregarding people's will) EV will not gain meaningful market shares anywhere. It will remain a tiny niche segment.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:

    For my taste we are writing too much about the financials of Tesla and not about the cars and the tech. My vote is for a  "Tesla" Board, with "Tesla Biz" and "Tesla Cars" sections; or make an "EV" board with Tesla and Porsche sections; just separate the biz talk from the tech.  

    - Rick

    I assume some people here in the forum invested in Tesla, others (or one in particular Smiley) may be even working for Tesla but overall, I agree...maybe we should separate the financials stuff from the tech stuff (which is very very interesting since Tesla is a pioneer in that particular domain).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    schmoell:

    For my taste we are writing too much about the financials of Tesla and not about the cars and the tech. My vote is for a  "Tesla" Board, with "Tesla Biz" and "Tesla Cars" sections; or make an "EV" board with Tesla and Porsche sections; just separate the biz talk from the tech.  

    - Rick

    I assume some people here in the forum invested in Tesla, others (or one in particular Smiley) may be even working for Tesla but overall, I agree...maybe we should separate the financials stuff from the tech stuff (which is very very interesting since Tesla is a pioneer in that particular domain).

    Was that supposed to be me? Smiley

    1. I  currently own ZERO stock in TSLA and have never owned any stock either (quite happy about that right now, lol)
    2. I do not work for Tesla or any related business

    What I do though is like the cars and tech very much and have real world experience as opposed to most in here who just seem to be clueless.

    think I've posted this image before, but it is spot on for a few members in here active in this thread Smiley

    dunning-kruger-effect.png

     


     
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