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    Re: AMG GT R

    KresoF1:

    New 991.2 GT3 is not nearly close and 991.2 GT2 RS mule did almost the same time few months ago (with close to 700ps).

     

     

    Can you disclose more on what to expect from the GT2 RS? Was that mule in final spec or far from it, regarding how early in development it is... Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 


    Re: AMG GT R

    well AMG has achieved something fantastic no doubt - but again there are so many variables in it - also previous times have been driven by HVS now CG - it's just a lot of Marketing involved....- there should clearly be a CG behind the times he drove against other times.....- also sometimes I would wish for a Repetition of a previously tested car with latest tire Generation I am sure we would see surprises....


    Re: AMG GT R

    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Thanks! Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    BjoernB:

    well AMG has achieved something fantastic no doubt - but again there are so many variables in it - also previous times have been driven by HVS now CG - it's just a lot of Marketing involved....- there should clearly be a CG behind the times he drove against other times.....- also sometimes I would wish for a Repetition of a previously tested car with latest tire Generation I am sure we would see surprises....

    CG is much faster than HVS and all recent SA tests proove that. 


    Re: AMG GT R

    that is my Point....


    Re: AMG GT R

    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     

    True, normal Cup 2 do not get shaved on the NBR with 6 laps . Maybe those special Cup 2's developed only for the GT-R have a compound close to the ULTRA soft in F1 and stick like glue but would be unusable as normal street tires 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     

    Why do you think Horst von Saurma was basically forced to leave Sport Auto?! Smiley I guess honesty doesn't pay off, even if I don't want to call Sport Auto or CG dishonest. So far, I trust them more than any car magazine on this planet. HvS was also a little bit in bed with Porsche, there were rumors that he had a CGT at his private or professional disposal whenever he wanted but I met HvS once and he was a straight shooter and real car nut and his reviews always paid attention to details, which CG reviews unfortunately not always do.  Smiley CG may be the faster driver but for me, a review is not only about achieving the fastest times but to learn what the driver did not like about that particular car. Not many like him left I'm afraid. Apparently it doesn't pay off to be honest in this business, seriously.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    SmileyGnil:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     

    True, normal Cup 2 do not get shaved on the NBR with 6 laps . Maybe those special Cup 2's developed only for the GT-R have a compound close to the ULTRA soft in F1 and stick like glue but would be unusable as normal street tires 

    The text says "these are special Cup tires, not those you can order"... You have to contact AMG directly to get them...

    BTW, Mercedes already placed big ads in this copy of SportAuto celebrating the great lap time. What a fraud...

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Gnil:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     

    True, normal Cup 2 do not get shaved on the NBR with 6 laps . Maybe those special Cup 2's developed only for the GT-R have a compound close to the ULTRA soft in F1 and stick like glue but would be unusable as normal street tires 

    Tire development seems to have entered a new stage, especially if I look at what Pirelli achieved with the new PZero compound. Lots of good stuff will come from tire manufacturers in the future, I am pretty sure about it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: AMG GT R

    It is obvious that a if a car which produces 585HP is faster than a high performance car with 300HP more, something is wrong. Nice to see what Mercedes is capable off, but it is a pity that there is not a clear comparison. Let's wait for independent tests under same circumstances!

     

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Lars997:

    It is obvious that a if a car which produces 585HP is faster than a high performance car with 300HP more, something is wrong. Nice to see what Mercedes is capable off, but it is a pity that there is not a clear comparison. Let's wait for independent tests under same circumstances!

    Actually, I am more worried about the test conditions, even if they warmed up the tires prior to the test drive.

    4-8°C...sorry but no semi-slick performs well under these conditions. So either the new tires are really fantastic or this car had a F1 chassis and 800 hp. Smiley Smiley

    Dyno testing doesn't say much...there are systems which detect the dyno and reduce power. Smiley

    Didn't their AMG GT S they tested once have 70(!) hp more than the stock claim? Why wouldn't it be different this time? 

    Don't misunderstand me: Maybe Mercedes AMG has done a wonderful job this time but I just need more proof. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Lars997:

    It is obvious that a if a car which produces 585HP is faster than a high performance car with 300HP more, something is wrong. Nice to see what Mercedes is capable off, but it is a pity that there is not a clear comparison. Let's wait for independent tests under same circumstances!

     

     

    If you refer to the 918’s time, I don’t think we can compare them, because:

    1. 918’s lap was performed by much slower HVS;
    2. They had limited time to do it and clearly said, that some time was left on the table;
    3. Didn’t have factory mechanics to help setting up.

    Re: AMG GT R

    Lars997:

    It is obvious that a if a car which produces 585HP is faster than a high performance car with 300HP more, something is wrong. Nice to see what Mercedes is capable off, but it is a pity that there is not a clear comparison. Let's wait for independent tests under same circumstances!

     

     

    Do not forget the 918 Spyder time was recorded before the substantial changes to the Nordschleife. Since that time the track has become slightly quicker, especially at Flugplatz.


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: AMG GT R


    Re: AMG GT R

    yeahh - used to the Level of being a very soft gluey Slick - again - if this Picture is a BEFORE the run Picture it's a bad joke....- I love the brand but Timing is to perfect to make up for slack sale season.....


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:
    SmileyGnil:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 GT2 RS target Ring time is below 7:08,00min.

    BTW, regarding picture of the completely "shaved" Cup2 tires that CG posted some clarification is needed since conspiracy theory fans  and those who did not had a chance to read the full article yet are making all kinds of assumptions.

    Since ambient temperature was low-4℃ tire warmers were used. Two sets of identical Cup2s in AMG GT-R specs were used. First session lasted 6 laps and fastest time was achieved on 6th lap. Tires were completely "shaved" in the end. Second session lasted little bit less and achieved time as almost the same. This time achieved on 3rd hot lap. 

    So, CG did around 7 fast laps. 

    Kreso, Cup tires are not shaved after 6 NBR laps. This is Mercedes marketing BS.

    The whole "test" is a pure marketing event: no acceleration times, no verification of engine power, suspension setup, no HHR time. I am very angry - they are deceiving the readers, sponsored by Mercedes for sure.

     

    True, normal Cup 2 do not get shaved on the NBR with 6 laps . Maybe those special Cup 2's developed only for the GT-R have a compound close to the ULTRA soft in F1 and stick like glue but would be unusable as normal street tires 

    The text says "these are special Cup tires, not those you can order"... You have to contact AMG directly to get them...

    BTW, Mercedes already placed big ads in this copy of SportAuto celebrating the great lap time. What a fraud...

     

    Markus,

    are you aware that you claim that CG and Sport Auto committed a fraud?

    Full Supertest wil be published in forthcoming issue. Acceleration and HHR time are pretty good as well.

    Now, I email my P source to ask his opinion about this Sport Auto test/results... His response:"Fully legit! No single doubt about it. Ok, car is about 4s slower on regular Cup2 tires and maybe they should use them instead. AMG tuned this car suspension for various tracks in Germany, Nordschleife especially included. That is not cheating for me. But, on Spa for example it would not be that fast. 

    And our 991.2 GT3 RS will be faster for sure!"


    Re: AMG GT R

    Just read the test of the AMG GT R in the new Sport Auto issue.

    I miss three things:

    1. No acceleration values

    2. No weight value

    3. No power measurement

    Also, just try to realize the following: The GT R has been 25(!) seconds faster than the GT S and that GT S had way more power than Mercedes claims. So how much power did the GT R have? 7xx? angry

    Yes, tires and chassis change a lot but 25 seconds? Just think about it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: AMG GT R

    KresoF1:
    And our 991.2 GT3 RS will be faster for sure!"

     

    You mean GT2  RS I suppose ? ( not GT3 RS, as that would have to be 18 sec faster then the current one  )

    It is great to see the performance of that GT-R  . I can imagine that tires that are gone after 6 laps on NBR must be so soft that the gain must be huge . More then the 4 s .

    We must see what finally happens with customers cars driving on track. The Dodge viper , or the Corvette ZR1 did fantastic times , but we never see them on track, or when seen , they are not faster in normal customers hands .

     


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: AMG GT R

    RC: with 295km/h at Doettinger Höhe the Car has arround 600-610hp


    Re: AMG GT R

    hunterone:

    RC: with 295km/h at Doettinger Höhe the Car has arround 600-610hp

    Depends on aerodynamics and of course gearing ratio. We need values to evaluate the GT R but so far, Sport Auto has only posted track results.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    KresoF1:
    Now, I email my P source to ask his opinion about this Sport Auto test/results... His response:"Fully legit! No single doubt about it. Ok, car is about 4s slower on regular Cup2 tires and maybe they should use them instead. AMG tuned this car suspension for various tracks in Germany, Nordschleife especially included. That is not cheating for me. But, on Spa for example it would not be that fast. 

    And our 991.2 GT3 RS will be faster for sure!"

    Sorry, but I doubt the quality of this person's statements:

    Neither will the 991.2 GT3RS be as fast on the NBR (why should it be so much quicker than before, the GTR at least has the RWS added to explain some of the improvement of 25s),

    nor am I in the opinion that a Porsche related source can verify the claimed GTR performance.

    Facts are: (i) they tested a prototype - no production car. (ii) The tires are dubious. It is also dubious they post the NBR time in isolation without any (!) further verification of its legitimacy. This is very uncommon for Sportauto. I also doubt the other test results will be nearly as good as what the published now. In particular, I am sure the acceleration will be quite poor. Also, HHR will be far less convincing than NBR.

    In summary, I personally believe this is a big fraud indeed Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    +1 kiss- although not ment as fraud but to boost the model maybe even the whole range.....


    Re: AMG GT R

    BjoernB:

    +1 kiss- although not ment as fraud but to boost the model maybe even the whole range.....

    Absolutely, after these disastrous test result of the AMG GT models before. And also to accommodate these beautiful AMG advertisements in the magazine (they actually placed two - not one - AMG GT advertisements this time). It is all so obvious.


    Re: AMG GT R

    BjoernB:

    well AMG has achieved something fantastic no doubt - but again there are so many variables in it - also previous times have been driven by HVS now CG - it's just a lot of Marketing involved....- there should clearly be a CG behind the times he drove against other times.....- also sometimes I would wish for a Repetition of a previously tested car with latest tire Generation I am sure we would see surprises....

    What's the problem? All the YouTube lap videos say he drove it. It doesn't matter who did the old times because we know the new cars are faster.

    CG did a 488. We know the 488 is faster than just about all those old cars regardless of who drove them. If CG did the 488 and the GT R, and the GT R was better than the 488, then we know the GT R is better than all the old times too.

    I don't think anyone actually believes it's quicker than a 918.


    Re: AMG GT R

    the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....


    Re: AMG GT R

    Some of you guys sounds butt hurt than AMG just stomped the competition for some reason. Not sure why you don't believe Mercedes is capable of creating such a car when you know they are capable of making competitive GT3 and F1 cars.

    Mercedes did a bunch of laps with the car. How do you think the tires would look fine after 60 mins of hot laps? You can even see their previous lap times on the timer in the video. Was 7:14 and 7:40 in laps prior. 


    Re: AMG GT R

    BjoernB:

    the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

    Suspension is tuned vastly better, tires are better, easier to drive, RWS.

    Nissan GTR, Lexus LFA, Dodge Viper, etc are all pretty close. A few seconds difference and these cars are always way older than the GT R.


    Re: AMG GT R

    ok - I finally got it.....indecision


     
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