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    PDK or Manual?

    This is a question for those of you who have PDK in your cars. I'm planning to get a new car and this is a real question.

    While there is no question that from a performance standpoint PDK is superior to a manual, my question is: What will you get in your next car?

    Do you miss the involvement of a manual?

    Thanks very much for your comments

     


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Once you driven PDK you will never go back on Manual!

    Next car will for sure have PDK!


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Hi, I've shared my impressions on the Manual vs PDK issue before on RT. Here's a link. Hope you find it informative.

    Manual vs PDK discussion.html 


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    pcosta:

    This is a question for those of you who have PDK in your cars. I'm planning to get a new car and this is a real question.

    While there is no question that from a performance standpoint PDK is superior to a manual, my question is: What will you get in your next car?

    Do you miss the involvement of a manual?

    Thanks very much for your comments

     

     

    I was just discussing this topic with a friend yesterday evening. My answer to this question is: manual is more fun, PDK is more efficient. So that's the problem... No easy choice Smiley

    Based on our own analyses it is possible to gain about 1s per lap on fast tracks (like HHR, Leipzig) just as manual gear changes at high speeds do cost much more time than I ever expected before seeing the results of our track time analyses. Also, acceleration above 200kph should benefit quite significantly by using PDK (I would now estimate: 0.5s to 0.75s!). So indeed, PDK is the way to go if you are interested in performance or comfort.


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    pcosta:

    This is a question for those of you who have PDK in your cars. I'm planning to get a new car and this is a real question.

    While there is no question that from a performance standpoint PDK is superior to a manual, my question is: What will you get in your next car?

    Do you miss the involvement of a manual?

    Thanks very much for your comments

     

     

    PDK all the way. Smiley It has too many advantages you can't ignore.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    I was very apprehensive about getting an 'auto' Porsche, but I was completely wrong, and the PDK shouldn't be confused with a normal auto box.  It is sooo much more.  In fact, think of it as a manual with an auto over-ride!  (I wish there was some way to program it this way!)

    The PDK 911 is all cars to all people - if you have your Mother-in-Law in the passenger seat, and want her to keep calm, just keep it in Auto, all buttons off, and she'll wonder what all the fuss about a 911 is!  When you've dropped her off, and pick up a friend you wish to impress, keep it in Sports, and manual, and drive it like you'd a manual car.  And of course, take it on track, and put it in Sports Plus, and make a badly-driven Turbo nervous!!

    Whatever you do, don't forget the Sport-Chrono package!


    --



    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Arshad:

    Whatever you do, don't forget the Sport-Chrono package!

     

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    MKSGR:
    [.....]

    manual is more fun, PDK is more efficient

    [.....]

     
    @MKSGR: you summarised it in just 8 words Smiley


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    If the car is daily driver skipping PDK will prove a big mistake.

    Manual could be more fun for a few kilometers on a route but it is a PITA the rest of the time.

    After more than a year with my PDK car, I cannot find any negatives to tell, under any given circumstances. In all, I would never get a manual car again, it is a relic from the past.

    Get Sport Chrono Plus and the new steering wheel and also don't forget the LSD option if it is a 2WD car.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: PDK or Manual?

     I agree w/ all the above.  The necessity of Sport Chrono cannot be overstated. This should not be an option for PDK.  Engaging Sport transforms PDK, and Sport Plus will leave no doubt about the sports car bona fides of PDK.


    --

    Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Thank you all for your comments. I will try to get an extended drive test with PDK prior to making a final decision.

     

     


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    pcosta:

    Thank you all for your comments. I will try to get an extended drive test with PDK prior to making a final decision. 

     

    That is the best thing you can do since the answer to your question is very personal and the is no right answer, in my case, I have put over 100,000km on my manual 997S daily driver and would not have it any other way, I probably wouldn't of done that many KM if it weren't a manual. In others its the other way around, they prefer PDK and never look back, and are very happy. Only you can now towards which side you lean towards, the only problem is knowing if after a while you will start to miss the manual or not, so an extended drive can give you more info on that Smiley

    And if you do get the PDK, like its been said above, don't forget the Sport Chrono, it gives you a whole another dimension of the PDK.


    --


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    If you care at all about resale, you need to get the PDK version. I have recently gotten anecdotal info that non PDK cars are simply hard to move off the floors.


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Agree that it is a personal choice, no right or wrong answer.

    I don't have a PDK car.  Test drove a PDK Panamera S.  Used the shift buttons for 10 minutes and then just drove with automatic afterwards.

    Also test drove F1 transmission Ferrari California.  Same thing, shifted manually for 10 minutes or so and then just drove with automatic.

    Obviously it is just me that don't find them entertaining, but you really need to drive it yourself and can't rely on others opinion.

     


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS, January build;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2006 BMW 530xi


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    I had a 997.1 4S manual I drove for 68'000 km.

    Now I have been driving my 997.2 S PDK for 30'000 km

    The PDK is more efficient and a lot faster. On track you can keep up with cars a lot more powerful or more sporty. For example I go faster  around a track then a GT3 996.2 with my PDK.

    So, there is no doubt the PDK is VERY efficient. Straight acceleration is also a real joy with it. Shifts are so fast you feel as driving a 996 Turbo, or near it ;-)

    PDK is the future , as it can combine lower fuel consumption and better performance + adapt to many different settings . A 6 speed manual does feel obsolete compared to it. It is also rewarding on very tight mountain roads, as you can concentrate better on the road and still have a nice feeling when shifting in sports plus mode.

    But, it is also very boring in day to day driving.  You end up driving it mainly in automatic . And I do feel ' embarrassed' each time I drive off with my car and I hear/feel the automatic change , exactly like in any boring/comfortable automatic sedan. It does not suit a sports car .

    It is the same on a  fast track with not too many gear changes or when there is no 'faster' car to try to overtake. It takes away some of the fun of having to master good shifting.

    So, after 30'000 km, I am still 50/50 about PDK...  sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it. These days it bores me to death !!!!


    --
     

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    What you say is valid, but if we try to quantify pluses and minuses, with PDK you lose a small fraction of "involvement" (or annoyance Smiley) compared to a manual and you gain a huge amount of advantages. So IMO the balance is on PDK favour.

    Moreover, being able to drive lazily in D like a an auto saloon, if you so wish, is not a drawback because driving a Carrera doesn't mean going flat out and racing the car all day every day. That's part of the Porsche practicality and using the car as a normal daily driver, if you wish.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK or Manual?

    once the +30kg weight is reduced it will kill manual!


    --

     

     


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Jay:

    once the +30kg weight is reduced it will kill manual!

    It is true that there is 30kg extra weight but the car is faster and more economical and importantly it feels more nimble than the manual car.

    So strangely, the additional weight has an effect only on the spec sheets!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK or Manual?

    PDK + sport chrono all the way for me having had experience of it for nearly a year in our Boxster S. Now you can have it the way it always should have been with the paddleshift steering wheel option it's no contest IMHO.


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    reginos:

    What you say is valid, but if we try to quantify pluses and minuses, with PDK you lose a small fraction of "involvement" (or annoyance Smiley) compared to a manual and you gain a huge amount of advantages. So IMO the balance is on PDK favour.

    Moreover, being able to drive lazily in D like a an auto saloon, if you so wish, is not a drawback because driving a Carrera doesn't mean going flat out and racing the car all day every day. That's part of the Porsche practicality and using the car as a normal daily driver, if you wish.


    Very true and well said.  Those jump seats were insisted upon by Ferry  for versatility sake, and not so long ago it was acceptable to buy a 911T, T for Touring. Smiley


    --

    Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Jay:

    once the +30kg weight is reduced it will kill manual!

     

    I don't know many Porsche drivers on this planet who would actually benefit from a weight reduction of 30 kg. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    RC:
    Jay:

    once the +30kg weight is reduced it will kill manual!

     

    I don't know many Porsche drivers on this planet who would actually benefit from a weight reduction of 30 kg. Smiley


    Some of the drivers, yes Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    But PDK should be like that idealy for me :

    - normal option : as it is now, with the buttons and the joy stick, no sports chrono

    - sport options : No stupid joy stick ( replaced by buttons for Neutral, Reverse, and Park ) Paddles and a  sport chrono evo : 5 different positions for the gear shifts + throttle  response ( 2 positions ) controled independently  from the gear shift mode


    --
     

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    I hated PDK and my manual with short shift is fine for daily use, even in stop/start traffic.  Its a personal thing that you will probably only resolve after a very long test drive


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Gnil:
    RC:
    Jay:

    once the +30kg weight is reduced it will kill manual!

     

    I don't know many Porsche drivers on this planet who would actually benefit from a weight reduction of 30 kg. Smiley


    Some of the drivers, yes Smiley


    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    reginos:

    What you say is valid, but if we try to quantify pluses and minuses, with PDK you lose a small fraction of "involvement" (or annoyance Smiley) compared to a manual and you gain a huge amount of advantages. So IMO the balance is on PDK favour.


    First, I think that this is a great, and intelligent, conversation of the differences of the two transmissions.  There's too much testerone flowing on most of the manual vs auto-manual discussions.

    I think that reginos' post highlights a couple of important nuances.  I have been driving a manual for 35 years.  I live in a large city with a lot of stop and go traffic.  But to me, the manual transmission and clutch action is never, ever, an "annoyance".  And to me, the "fraction of involvement" is what driving is all about.  I'll drive a traditional manual for as long as I can.

    With that said, preferring either an old-fashioned manual or the highly sophisticated and unarguably faster and more efficient PDK does not make you a better driver or a bigger man.  They're both good choices.  Smiley


    --

    09 Porsche 911 Targa 4S
    02 Porsche 911 Targa - Retired
    08 BMW 550i


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    easy_rider911:
    MKSGR:
    [.....]

    manual is more fun, PDK is more efficient

    [.....]

     
    @MKSGR: you summarised it in just 8 words Smiley


    SmileySmiley...and therefore the answer is easy for me: my GT3 is a toy and not a production machine. So for me it's the fun what counts more, not efficiency.

    @ hinckley: very well said - fully agree with you. If one thinks that the manual adds only a "fraction" of driver involvement then he should go with the PDK indeed. For me it's much more than just a fraction, but maybe I'm just old school Smiley

    Performancewise there is no doubt - I have encountered a lot of PDK cars on the Leipzig track and also on Nordschleife and they go really very very well Smiley

    Of course only with Sport Chrono Plus (as already mentioned in this thread). My wife recently had a 997S PDK loaner without the Sport Chrono and she was bored to death Smiley


    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    hinckley:
    ..... I live in a large city with a lot of stop and go traffic.  But to me, the manual transmission and clutch action is never, ever, an "annoyance".  And to me, the "fraction of involvement" is what driving is all about.  I'll drive a traditional manual for as long as I can. .......

     
    +1 Smiley

    All I would add is that, for me, it is a very large 'fraction' Smiley


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    Gnil:

    ...

    But, it is also very boring in day to day driving.  You end up driving it mainly in automatic . And I do feel ' embarrassed' each time I drive off with my car and I hear/feel the automatic change , exactly like in any boring/comfortable automatic s 

    I drive PDK in town and in conventional traffic in manual mode. This way I have full control. After all if you had a manual you would shift it manually all the time, wouldn't you? And you save on the clutch chore under heavy traffic. On spirited drives on the open road I use Sport Auto - it shifts perfectly 90% of the time. The 10% I need another gear the manual override is there when I need it. PDK is very flexible - you just need to understand it and extract the maximum from it. Smiley

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________ 

    A. Dias --- 997.2S. Previous cars: Corvette C6,  996 C4.


    Re: PDK or Manual?

    ADias:
    Gnil:

    ...

    But, it is also very boring in day to day driving.  You end up driving it mainly in automatic . And I do feel ' embarrassed' each time I drive off with my car and I hear/feel the automatic change , exactly like in any boring/comfortable automatic s 

    I drive PDK in town and in conventional traffic in manual mode. This way I have full control. After all if you had a manual you would shift it manually all the time, wouldn't you? And you save on the clutch chore under heavy traffic. On spirited drives on the open road I use Sport Auto - it shifts perfectly 90% of the time. The 10% I need another gear the manual override is there when I need it. PDK is very flexible - you just need to understand it and extract the maximum from it. Smiley

     

    I like shifting with a real stick and a clutch, but I have no pleasure in the action of pressing a button. So, in normal city highway driving I end up in automatic mode as there is no point changing gears myself. It does not bring anything...actually it just encreases fuel consumption.
    I do overide it here and there.

    I like to use the buttons when I do spirited driving as I like controlling the engine exactly to my taste and style of driving. Also sports mode is nice to change the gears as you can feel something. When I want to be the fastest possible on a track I  go back to automatic as it does a better job then myself ...

    I do know how ths gear box works after 30'000 km of daily driving, spirited driving and different track driving, including the N'Ring


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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