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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Again, it's not the 'total' kWh that's the problem. The issue is the power draw, kW. You are confusing between the two units and asking the wrong question. 

    I already told you if I have both my chargers going, I am drawing over 20kW an hour. Takes over 120kWh to fully top up my Lightning and ~80kWh for either the Mach E or the Taycan. 

    Your Tesla has a 60kWh battery. Using my charger you can charge it from empty to full in ~6hrs as the current draw is 10kW. But of course you can use a 200W trickle charger, eventually you gonna top it up but it will take you 300hrs, aka 13 days.

    10 of those normal EV chargers and you are at 100kW draw. 50 of them you are at 500kW. Scales up very quickly.

    You can claim if people 'schedule' their charging then it will be easier on the grid, well, who is deciding who gets to charge first and who can't? Humans are selfish, they come home, they will plug it in and start charging, they will expect others to wait for them to finish before starting theirs. 

    "homes with existing charging capabilities" -- There is ZERO home with existing charging capabilities. Every existing homes, be it new built or old house, NEED infrastructure upgrades. When is the last time you seen a house that comes with a EV charger? If you seen one with it, it means the last owner had an EV and did the infrastructure upgrade already.  Putting in new circuit and breaker to prepare for EV charger IS an infrastructure upgrade dude. One needs to apply for the proper permit and hire proper electrician to do it.

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    As I mentioned. You choose to not tell us how much electricity the car is actually using or needing to charge based on how you use it. I’m pretty certain how much is as of more important than how quickly you charge. If all you consume is $10 per month or 250kW (1000 miles)  in power it is not a major draw.  Especially off peak. 
    If you use double that it would still be less than 20kW per day on average.  
    FYI my home had a 30 amp outlet in the garage when I moved in 20 years ago. I used it for months to charge my car very quickly until I added the Tesla charger for a bit more speed - from 25 miles per hour to 43 at 48 amps.  Do you know of any other homes with 200 amp service?  I can’t think of any that do not.  Pretty certain all of the thousands of homes around here can consume an extra 20 kW during off peak hours per day without any concerns.  They are all 100% capable of charging any number of cars we currently have batteries for in the next five years. 
    None of what you say is true in my humble experience  but it did distract from my simple question - do you know how many kW on average you use per day?  
     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    As I mentioned. You choose to not tell us how much electricity the car is actually using or needing to charge based on how you use it. I’m pretty certain how much is as of more important than how quickly you charge. If all you consume is $10 per month or 250kW (1000 miles)  in power it is not a major draw.  Especially off peak. 
    If you use double that it would still be less than 20kW per day on average.  
    FYI my home had a 30 amp outlet in the garage when I moved in 20 years ago. I used it for months to charge my car very quickly until I added the Tesla charger for a bit more speed - from 25 miles per hour to 43 at 48 amps.  Do you know of any other homes with 200 amp service?  I can’t think of any that do not.  Pretty certain all of the thousands of homes around here can consume an extra 20 kW during off peak hours per day without any concerns.  They are all 100% capable of charging any number of cars we currently have batteries for in the next five years. 
    None of what you say is true in my humble experience  but it did distract from my simple question - do you know how many kW on average you use per day?  
     

     

    You are still confused about the units involved buddy.

    250kW is the power per unit of time, 250kWh is the total amount of energy. Two distinctly different thing.

    Your Model 3 needs 60kWh for a full charge, you charge it up say 6 times a month, your total energy needed for the month is 360kWh

    Your charger charges at 240V 40A now? That's 9.6kW of power coming in every hour into your car. That's the exact strain on the electrical system whenever you are charging. Actually more as there will be losses along the way. 

    Now if you chop that down to 10A, you will only be charging at 2.4kW, 1/4 of the strain on the infrastructure, but you also will take 4 times longer to charge. Now if you dial it down even more to just 1A, you be done charging your car 10 times longer still. You will still put the same amount of energy into your car, that doesn't change. It's the rate of power going into your car that's changed. 

    Can you not see now how much total energy needed is not important? One can get there quickly or slowly. But the rate of charging is what matters, aka the power, the kW

    Charging EV is like filling a swimming pool. The pool size is your battery size, the hose is the charger. The bigger the hose, the faster to fill up. 

    City's water supply can only supply so much, normally we all have the same size pipe with the same water pressure. But if I switch out mine to a bigger hose, I get more water. Your neighbours might do the same until such a point where the city water supply cannot support those extra water and your little hose will became a trickle. This is the same with electric grid. 

    I have a 40A and a 80A charger at home. One draws 32A and the other 64A. If I charges the Lightning, either one will need to supply 120kWh total each time, it's just that one puts double the strain on the grid than the other. And it is done about 4-5 times a month.  The Taycan/Mach E will each demand 80kWh or so for each charge, 6-8 times a month. 

    That's 600kWh from the Lightning and another 600kWh or so from the other 2. If that's the number you wanted me to give you. But I really don't see how that's relevant at all. I can plug in a 120V 15A charger and still get 1200kWh out eventually. Just takes a really long time. And ZERO strain on the grid. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Interesting topic.  I'm curious how cities are planning for the future of their electrical grids.  I don't have any insight, but found this article which seems to add another viewpoint.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/09/12/evs-wont-overload-the-power-grid-in-fact-evs-and-ice-are-its-salvation/?sh...


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    3mph:

    Interesting topic.  I'm curious how cities are planning for the future of their electrical grids.  I don't have any insight, but found this article which seems to add another viewpoint.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/09/12/evs-wont-overload-the-power-grid-in-fact-evs-and-ice-are-its-salvation/?sh...

    Thank you. This is something which was obvious to me without needing to read.  Anyone owning an EV for a few weeks would come to the same conclusion. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Came across this a couple of months ago

    https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    3mph:

    Interesting topic.  I'm curious how cities are planning for the future of their electrical grids.  I don't have any insight, but found this article which seems to add another viewpoint.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/09/12/evs-wont-overload-the-power-grid-in-fact-evs-and-ice-are-its-salvation/?sh...

     

    It was actually the same viewpoint as Mike. Batteries will be the load that absorb the power when there is excess. 

    It still failed to acknowledge the fact that infrastructure is still needed to deliver the power to the batteries. The last mile delivery is the most needed upgrade, your local transformers. And the article talks like Mike, thinking the all of people lives in standalone dwellings where it's easy to add sockets and chargers for the EVs to be plugged in and act like a giant storage battery. 

    It also mentioned solar is the saviour, except they don't even have enough solar panels yet, that's another infrastructure upgrade that's missing.

    Honestly, I don't doubt in the future, like Mike and the article said, EVs, or battery walls can be of such help for the grid, but that's the future, when the infrastructure caught up to the EV movement. But not right now, future isn't now. 

    I see things one step at a time. Yes, there is a wide flat highway on the other side of the river, but we still need to build a bridge to cross the river first. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    My Taycan Turbo is here. Finally after I first asked my dealer for one October 2021. I don’t pick up until the 27th December since I am getting it PPF’d and the Christmas break. Will report back. Happy holidays everyone.

    2ECBA074-4E16-45F8-8CFC-F43E68567C9D.jpeg


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. ­čą│


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Congrats! wink right on Christmas time indecision


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Congratulations. 

    Christmas presents wrapped in red are always the best ones wink


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Congrats! is that guards red?


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    That's a lovely Christmas present!


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Enmanuel:

    Congrats! is that guards red?

    It’s carmine red and Olea club brown leather interior. 


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. ­čą│


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The first Carmine Taycan I’ve seen.  Fantastic!


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Congrats and have fun with the impressive acceleration!


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Not quite Taycan news but Porsche has released additional information about the Macan EV and how its technology differs from that of the Taycan.  

    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2023/products/porsche-premium-plattform-electric-e-performance-series-models-30898.html

    The PPE component set is being co-developed with Audi where Audi has in late stage development a crossover, surprise, surprise, and the A6 e-tron.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    If they do it right I think they won't be able to make enough Macan EV to meet demand...


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Porsche EV vehicle sells have had a very disappointing year. Sales were down 16%. I suspect wait time played a significant role in selling less vehicles.


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    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    2022 deliveries: Porsche posts a slight increase

    Porsche put in a robust performance in fiscal year 2022, with a slight increase in deliveries. The sports car manufacturer delivered a total of 309,884 cars over the past 12 months, 3 per cent more than in 2021 – despite several global crises.

    (12 January 2023)

    911 Carrera, Taycan, Macan, 718 Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera, 2023, Porsche AG

    Porsche put in a robust performance in fiscal year 2022, with a slight increase in deliveries. The sports car manufacturer delivered a total of 309,884 cars over the past 12 months, 3 per cent more than in 2021 – despite several global crises.

    Porsche fulfills the dreams of its customers, as strong delivery figures and the continued good order situation for fiscal year 2022 demonstrate. Worldwide, the sports car manufacturer delivered 309,884 vehicles to customers last year, an increase of 3 per cent over the previous year.

    Detlev von Platen, Member of the Executive Board, Sales and Marketing, 2019, Porsche AG

    Detlev von Platen, Executive Board Member for Sales and Marketing at Porsche AG

    “The many challenges caused by the war in Ukraine, interrupted supply chains and the ongoing semiconductor crisis have shaped the past year and put us to the test,” says Detlev von Platen, Executive Board Member for Sales and Marketing at Porsche AG. “So I am all the prouder of the entire Porsche team. In this difficult environment, we have succeeded in fulfilling the dream of owning a Porsche for more customers than ever before.”

    Deliveries in Europe 7 per cent above previous year

    In the Europe sales region, Porsche delivered 62,685 cars in 2022. This is 7 per cent more than in the previous year. In its home market of Germany, 29,512 customers took delivery of their cars – an increase of 3 per cent. In North America, Porsche recorded 79,260 deliveries, matching the previous year's level. This was a particularly strong performance in view of logistical and supply challenges that started the year. In what remains the biggest single market, China, 93,286 cars were delivered to customers     (-2 per cent). The slight dip here is mainly due to the effects of the COVID pandemic. Waves of infection, COVID-related lockdowns and logistical challenges affected the deliveries. The Overseas and Emerging Markets sales region continues to develop positively with an increase in deliveries of 13 per cent. Some 45,141 cars were delivered to customers in this region during 2022.

    SUVs remain popular among customers

    The models with the highest demand again in 2022 were the brand’s SUVs: the Porsche Cayenne was delivered a total of 95,604 times. The Macan followed in second place with 86,724 units delivered. With 40,410 deliveries (+5 per cent) the Porsche 911 remains very popular as well. The sports saloon Panamera was delivered to 34,142 customers (+13 per cent).

    The Taycan remains at a high level of orders. In 2022, Porsche delivered 34,801 cars from the model line worldwide (-16 percent). The decline was due to supply chain bottlenecks and limited component availability. Both issues affected the electric sports car in particular. Customers took delivery of 18,203 units of the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman models.

    Taycan GTS, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, 2022, Porsche AG

    Taycan GTS and Taycan GTS Sport Turismo

    “On the sales side, results have been positive in 2022,” says von Platen. “Porsche is in a solid position. And we’re building on that basis.”

    E286C5B5-74A0-4A3D-BA82-7235B82491C0.jpeg

    Link: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023/company/porsche-delivieries-2022-30886.html


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    A bit dense, but I think a fair analysis. Bottom line is that the move to  EVs produces a significant savings for many people in the US, but not for all. Lower income families, and those living in colder climates, will not particularly benefit. Also, the cost of EVs  remains out of reach for many people.
     

    https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a42449350/ev-adoption-trends-for-2023-university-of-michigan-study/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=012023&utm_campaign=nl30311319&user_email=e5da3fdb3c0243eef29ad34e9aba82c4f4c84fd6a09192c7f590f1e162f31e65&utm_term=AAA%20--%20High%20Minus%20Dormant%20and%2090%20Day%20Non%20Openers


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Well that's not even new news, it's been common sense for a long time, except no one wants to listen to the truth. 

    While gas is expensive right now, price of a EV is multiple times that of the cheapest gas powered car, the entry barrier is still there and hasn't moved. If one can't even get into the door, how are they gonna reap the savings that might come after?

    EV are only a perfect fit a a small subset of car buyers, and they are a good choice for a slightly larger set. It isn't for everyone, it was never designed to be a complete replacement of normal cars. 

    If only government would stay out of the way, they are going at it all wrong. 

    EVs are best replacement for dirty and high yearly mileage vehicles, buses, urban delivery trucks, etc. They emit the most and would benefit the most from electrification. They are also much larger than normal cars thus carry a bigger sized battery isn't too intrusive on the overall package.

    Right off the bat, the moves will chopped off a much bigger chunk of GHG than migrating private cars.

    City dwellers, or those that rarely go inter-city routes, would benefit from driving EVs. Actually the city they will in will benefit also as even if the EVs are stuck in traffic, they won't emit anything. EV works great in traffic, the constant stopping and going means the regeneration is getting full use. My city is the perfect example, we don't have massive freeways connecting neighbouring cities, it's just one big city grid of metropolis with traffic lights, max daily driving would perhaps touch 200km, perfect fit for EVs. 

    For people living in rural, and suburban areas, they are much better served by hybrids or conventional cars. The hybrid system will help them improve the fuel economy when needed and the gas engine will fulfill any long range needs. 

     

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    After some internal debate, this seems like, based on Porsche’s early EV work, the most appropriate thread to post this interesting video.  https://youtu.be/ySTU7fwPDjw  If you haven’t see this series before and you’re a student of history, one highly recommends watching other videos within the series. 


     
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