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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    http://cars.mclaren.press/en-gb/releases/434

     

    Well it's official, McLaren has picked BMW, not Honda, to be partners for powertrain for street cars.

    Basically means the next generation of brand new McLarens will have BMW engine, likely a 4.0L twin turbo in various tunes. Probably will also ended up with BMW dual clutch transmissions. 

    They can finally say bye bye to the versatile 12C platform and move on. Quicker than Aston on the VH platform.

    If this partnership proved to be successful, perhaps BMW might buy McLaren outright? Not impossible, especially since Mercedes-AMG is already partnering with Aston while VAG owns every thing else. 


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Do Bmw make any special engines anymore?


    --

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    http://cars.mclaren.press/en-gb/releases/434

     

    Well it's official, McLaren has picked BMW, not Honda, to be partners for powertrain for street cars.

    Basically means the next generation of brand new McLarens will have BMW engine, likely a 4.0L twin turbo in various tunes. Probably will also ended up with BMW dual clutch transmissions

    They can finally say bye bye to the versatile 12C platform and move on. Quicker than Aston on the VH platform.

    If this partnership proved to be successful, perhaps BMW might buy McLaren outright? Not impossible, especially since Mercedes-AMG is already partnering with Aston while VAG owns every thing else. 

    How did you come up with this conclusion? The official release is very clear, unless you have heard more on this from a different source.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    What's a 'powertrain'? engine and transmission.

    This press release is about their new big thing, the next platform after the current 12C.

    Which means for Ricardo, their current powertrain supplier, their time will be up soon, they won't be on the next platform. 

    As for the 'conclusion', it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense. 

    Would McLaren put a 4 cylinders in their car? Never.

    Inline 6? Not likely either for packaging reasons, the block is too long.

    BMW doesn't make a V6, so naturally it will be a V8, with turbos to keep up with the HP output.

    While the current BMW V8 is 4.4L, the industry has moved onto 4.0L as worldwide insurance companies have a cut off there. Which means for all likelihood the next BMW V8 will be 4.0L.

    McLaren simply don't have the cash flow to commission BMW to produce a bespoke V8 engine for them to use only, so they had to piggyback onto BMW's regular production engines, but perhaps gives it a different tune, which is easy to do on turbo cars. Like how Pagani did with Mercedes-AMG V12 engines. Or Aston soon with the Mercedes AMG V8s.

    For transmissions, for sure McLaren is not going to do automatic, and will be going with dual-clutch. and that would be BMW's 7-speed dual clutch unit. Or they could develop a new one with maybe 8 speed? Or stay 7 speed but stronger to handle the higher power, I tend to lean on the later. 

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    What's a 'powertrain'? engine and transmission.

    This press release is about their new big thing, the next platform after the current 12C.

    Which means for Ricardo, their current powertrain supplier, their time will be up soon, they won't be on the next platform. 

    As for the 'conclusion', it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense. 

    Would McLaren put a 4 cylinders in their car? Never.

    Inline 6? Not likely either for packaging reasons, the block is too long.

    BMW doesn't make a V6, so naturally it will be a V8, with turbos to keep up with the HP output.

    While the current BMW V8 is 4.4L, the industry has moved onto 4.0L as worldwide insurance companies have a cut off there. Which means for all likelihood the next BMW V8 will be 4.0L.

    McLaren simply don't have the cash flow to commission BMW to produce a bespoke V8 engine for them to use only, so they had to piggyback onto BMW's regular production engines, but perhaps gives it a different tune, which is easy to do on turbo cars. Like how Pagani did with Mercedes-AMG V12 engines. Or Aston soon with the Mercedes AMG V8s.

    For transmissions, for sure McLaren is not going to do automatic, and will be going with dual-clutch. and that would be BMW's 7-speed dual clutch unit. Or they could develop a new one with maybe 8 speed? Or stay 7 speed but stronger to handle the higher power, I tend to lean on the later. 

     

    Seems to me this prepares McLaren's switch to a hybrid drive-train. Why should they switch to BMW otherwise Smiley 

    As you say they will end up with standard BMW equipment, customized a bit. Not so good, I feel. Certainly less good than Ferrari or Porsche.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    "The project will be led by McLaren Automotive but involves a total of six partners. McLaren Automotive will work with its existing engine manufacturing partner, Ricardo, and BMW Group while Grainger and Worrall will deliver complex, lightweight casting technology. Lentus Composites will contribute knowledge in specialist composite structures. Completing the syndicate is the University of Bath who bring their advanced research and development capabilities in internal combustion engine systems efficiency."

    Doesn't say anything about Ricarco disappearing. In fact, it explicitly mentions them being part of the six partners.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    "The project will be led by McLaren Automotive but involves a total of six partners. McLaren Automotive will work with its existing engine manufacturing partner, Ricardo, and BMW Group while Grainger and Worrall will deliver complex, lightweight casting technology. Lentus Composites will contribute knowledge in specialist composite structures. Completing the syndicate is the University of Bath who bring their advanced research and development capabilities in internal combustion engine systems efficiency."

    Doesn't say anything about Ricarco disappearing. In fact, it explicitly mentions them being part of the six partners.

    Sounds better Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    "The project will be led by McLaren Automotive but involves a total of six partners. McLaren Automotive will work with its existing engine manufacturing partner, Ricardo, and BMW Group while Grainger and Worrall will deliver complex, lightweight casting technology. Lentus Composites will contribute knowledge in specialist composite structures. Completing the syndicate is the University of Bath who bring their advanced research and development capabilities in internal combustion engine systems efficiency."

    Doesn't say anything about Ricarco disappearing. In fact, it explicitly mentions them being part of the six partners.

     

    Ricardo also makes McLaren's transmission. Not just the engine. McLaren didn't explicitly say Ricardo will do the engine. And BMW doesn't make it's own dual clutch, I believe they were source from ZF. And the current BMW dual clutch probably cannot handle the power out of the McLarens.

    Can the existing Ricardo engine be carried forward towards the future? If not, BMW engines will be a natural choice while Ricardo continue to work on the transmission.

     

     

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The gearboxes in McLaren are from Graziano.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    EnglishManInNY:

    Do Bmw make any special engines anymore?

    I assume they will be made specifically for McLaren, not simply adapt one of their current engines? McLaren F1's masterpiece was also made by BMW, that turned out brilliantly.


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    they should use white color smileyIMG_8764.jpg

    aldo, would you care to give a comparison between the RS and the 650? nothing scientific or data oriented, just your feelings.

    cheers peter

    Peter,

    I have made a few month ago a relative good comparison. 

    To make it short, both cars a very fast on curvy roads. 

    Highway driving is much smoother with the 650s.

    GT3RS is very stiff - to stiff for normal road. The 650s is more like a flying carpet, which confuses a lot of people, they think that the car could not be fast on track and be so soft. But it can.

    When you have had lot of Porsche cars (911) you take seat in the GT3RS and you are from beginning very fast with the car.

    When starting to drive the 650S you have to learn the car. One of the things is brake steering. You have to brake later to take advantage of this technique. Maybe 4-5 track days and then you familar with that. 

    The 650s spider offers much more then 911 GT3rs, you can drive it open, slow, with your girlfriend, to a dinner, fast, loud, in the city, on highway, on track ...

    The GT3rs makes only fun when you drive it sporty and loud, nothing for city or with passengers.

    If I have to choose just one -> 650s. If I have to choose one car for track only -> GT3RS.

    thanks a lot aldo, makes really sense. for someone like me (almost no track driving) a 488 or 650S would certainly make more sense than the GT3RS. but i must say that so far i have been enjoying the RS a lot. last summer i got a bit less enthusiastic when driving it on the bad country roads of central italy but then at xmas i drove the same roads with a remtal mercedes A class and i felt more shaken than in the GT3RS. so far i have done two 1000K km trips in the RS (mostly highway) and it was ok, even the sound level:::)))) still, sometimes i am wondering whether in should give in to good reason and return to the comfy side - turbo S, 488 or maclaren. by the sympathy factor for car makers alone, i'd love to own a maclaren but so far i felt that depreciation was bothersome. who would buy the car from me in central europe after all, but i shall see how you will deal with that in the end.

    will you swap your 650S for the successor model?

    peter


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Hi Peter,

    I did last year 9000 km indecision with two of the best sportscars, 3000 km with RS and 6000 km with 650s and only 500 km with my bike surprise.

    Regarding the 720s, if it be called so, I will wait to see how the car is in flesh. I am not impressed with the pictures I have seen. For sure I will wait for the spider. Coupé is nice but spider is more versatile.

    The depreciation is huge for 12c and for 650s but not more then for a 991 turbo or an Audi R8. As far as I have seen the 5xx series is far better. On the other hand I think that both 650s and 12c had hit the bottom. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    Hi Peter,

    I did last year 9000 km indecision with two of the best sportscars, 3000 km with RS and 6000 km with 650s and only 500 km with my bike surprise.

    ::::))) my count is 7500km with the GT3RS since may 2016. less than what i did with the 458 italia since i did not put winter tyres on the RS this year but next year i will and then it is off to MC at xmas!!!!

    Regarding the 720s, if it be called so, I will wait to see how the car is in flesh. I am not impressed with the pictures I have seen.

    doesn't look to shabby to me though:::))))

    For sure I will wait for the spider. Coupé is nice but spider is more versatile.

    The depreciation is huge for 12c and for 650s but not more then for a 991 turbo or an Audi R8. As far as I have seen the 5xx series is far better. On the other hand I think that both 650s and 12c had hit the bottom. 

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    http://cars.mclaren.press/en-gb/releases/434

     

    Well it's official, McLaren has picked BMW, not Honda, to be partners for powertrain for street cars.

    Thank god. Smiley Smiley

    Basically means the next generation of brand new McLarens will have BMW engine, likely a 4.0L twin turbo in various tunes. Probably will also ended up with BMW dual clutch transmissions. 

    This is bad (the BMW engines are the worst sounding engines on the market right now).

    They can finally say bye bye to the versatile 12C platform and move on. Quicker than Aston on the VH platform.

    Hopefully a good thing.

    If this partnership proved to be successful, perhaps BMW might buy McLaren outright? Not impossible, especially since Mercedes-AMG is already partnering with Aston while VAG owns every thing else. 

    True. However, McLaren would be a good fit for Mercedes in my opinion.

    Don't like the idea of McLaren in the hands of BMW though, I do not see how BMW could add value, other than technology. Rolls Royce is a good example of a positive influence from BMW but we are talking comfort and luxury here. If I look at Mini, they recently destroyed the brand by making it more comfortable and less sporty. The cars have better quality, right but my next city commuter won't be a Mini anymore. The traction issues of my Mini JCW drive me mad, next stop...Audi S1. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    Hi Peter,

    I did last year 9000 km indecision with two of the best sportscars, 3000 km with RS and 6000 km with 650s and only 500 km with my bike surprise.

    ::::))) my count is 7500km with the GT3RS since may 2016. less than what i did with the 458 italia since i did not put winter tyres on the RS this year but next year i will and then it is off to MC at xmas!!!!

    Regarding the 720s, if it be called so, I will wait to see how the car is in flesh. I am not impressed with the pictures I have seen.

    doesn't look to shabby to me though:::))))

    For sure I will wait for the spider. Coupé is nice but spider is more versatile.

    The depreciation is huge for 12c and for 650s but not more then for a 991 turbo or an Audi R8. As far as I have seen the 5xx series is far better. On the other hand I think that both 650s and 12c had hit the bottom. 

     

    Winter tires? I do not have them - so only nice weather driving. I am lucky, I live at the south of Germany with lot of nice sunny weather.


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    Hi Peter,

    I did last year 9000 km indecision with two of the best sportscars, 3000 km with RS and 6000 km with 650s and only 500 km with my bike surprise.

    ::::))) my count is 7500km with the GT3RS since may 2016. less than what i did with the 458 italia since i did not put winter tyres on the RS this year but next year i will and then it is off to MC at xmas!!!!

    Regarding the 720s, if it be called so, I will wait to see how the car is in flesh. I am not impressed with the pictures I have seen.

    doesn't look to shabby to me though:::))))

    For sure I will wait for the spider. Coupé is nice but spider is more versatile.

    The depreciation is huge for 12c and for 650s but not more then for a 991 turbo or an Audi R8. As far as I have seen the 5xx series is far better. On the other hand I think that both 650s and 12c had hit the bottom. 

     

    Winter tires? I do not have them - so only nice weather driving. I am lucky, I live at the south of Germany with lot of nice sunny weather.

    I assume you have no semi slicks on your 650S? Driving with semi-slicks at temps under 0°C would be insane for various reasons.

    Even with normal summer road tires, driving at temperatures under 7°C already poses a risk.

    At temperatures under 0°C, the risk is pretty high and if you have an accident, let's say in a curve, even if it was dry, your insurance will try to find a reason not to pay up because they could argue that you were reckless because you had no winter tires.

    It is pretty easy to blame you because the law states clearly: 

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures. So even if the sun shines and the roads are (apparently) dry, if you have minus 10°C or so, you risk your insurance coverage. For a car like yours, the insurance will do anything possible to get out of paying up, just keep that in mind. Smiley

    Get winter tires, you can afford them. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    ALDO:
    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    Hi Peter,

    I did last year 9000 km indecision with two of the best sportscars, 3000 km with RS and 6000 km with 650s and only 500 km with my bike surprise.

    ::::))) my count is 7500km with the GT3RS since may 2016. less than what i did with the 458 italia since i did not put winter tyres on the RS this year but next year i will and then it is off to MC at xmas!!!!

    Regarding the 720s, if it be called so, I will wait to see how the car is in flesh. I am not impressed with the pictures I have seen.

    doesn't look to shabby to me though:::))))

    For sure I will wait for the spider. Coupé is nice but spider is more versatile.

    The depreciation is huge for 12c and for 650s but not more then for a 991 turbo or an Audi R8. As far as I have seen the 5xx series is far better. On the other hand I think that both 650s and 12c had hit the bottom. 

     

    Winter tires? I do not have them - so only nice weather driving. I am lucky, I live at the south of Germany with lot of nice sunny weather.

    I assume you have no semi slicks on your 650S? Driving with semi-slicks at temps under 0°C would be insane for various reasons.

    Even with normal summer road tires, driving at temperatures under 7°C already poses a risk.

    At temperatures under 0°C, the risk is pretty high and if you have an accident, let's say in a curve, even if it was dry, your insurance will try to find a reason not to pay up because they could argue that you were reckless because you had no winter tires.

    It is pretty easy to blame you because the law states clearly: 

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures. So even if the sun shines and the roads are (apparently) dry, if you have minus 10°C or so, you risk your insurance coverage. For a car like yours, the insurance will do anything possible to get out of paying up, just keep that in mind. Smiley

    Get winter tires, you can afford them. Smiley

    Yes, I know and I wouldn't do that for the reasons you mentioned above. But I really drive only when it is nice outside and with nice I mean also temperatures above 10-15 °C.  You can really feel the difference when driving with cold tires and the temp. is around 10°C.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Semi slicks in cold weather, if dry, is fine.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Semi slicks in cold weather, if dry, is fine.

    Surface cracks can appear and while they may be cosmetic at first, they can lead to serious damage later on.

    So no, it is not fine (especially at temps under 0°C).

    tire_zpsfbc0ec10.jpg 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
     

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures.

    Interesting, did not think about this in more detail before Smiley 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Semi slicks in cold weather, if dry, is fine.

    I am not so sure - my car spins very fast with cold tires (!) and cold surface outside.

    I was once on a track with cold outside temp. but the track was after a while warm and then we did't have any problems.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    RC:
     

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures.

    Interesting, did not think about this in more detail before Smiley 

    On Monday I had a meeting with one of my future customer (hopefully) and they are leading in creating glas without polarisation in huge dimensions (up to 18mx6m). Apple wants to take their glasses for all stores. He explained me the effect of Reifglätte and told me the same story or nearly the same story. 

    It has something to do how much energy is needed to heave electrons on another energy level...... or so Smiley I mean why you don´t see it with naked eyes .... 

    ... forget it ... Smiley

     


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Semi slicks in cold weather, if dry, is fine.

    I'm not sitting in that car with youSmiley. Super Trofeos are very slippery at low temps.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
     

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures.

    Interesting, did not think about this in more detail before Smiley 

    On Monday I had a meeting with one of my future customer (hopefully) and they are leading in creating glas without polarisation in huge dimensions (up to 18mx6m). Apple wants to take their glasses for all stores. He explained me the effect of Reifglätte and told me the same story or nearly the same story. 

    It has something to do how much energy is needed to heave electrons on another energy level...... or so Smiley I mean why you don´t see it with naked eyes .... 

    ... forget it ... Smiley

     

    Interesting, also the possible insurance implications of Reifglätte Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
     

     "Bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- oder Reifglätte darf ein Kraftfahrzeug nur mit Reifen gefahren werden, die die in Anhang II Nummer 2.2 der Richtlinie 92/23/EWG des Rates vom 31. März 1992 über Reifen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern und über ihre Montage (ABl. L 129 vom 14.5.1992, S. 95), die zuletzt durch die Richtlinie 2005/11/EG (ABl. L 46 vom 17.2.2005, S. 42) geändert worden ist, beschriebenen Eigenschaften erfüllen (M+S-Reifen)."

    Reifglätte (slippery frost) can be invisible to the naked eye and it happens even on dry pavement, especially at low temperatures.

    Interesting, did not think about this in more detail before Smiley 

    On Monday I had a meeting with one of my future customer (hopefully) and they are leading in creating glas without polarisation in huge dimensions (up to 18mx6m). Apple wants to take their glasses for all stores. He explained me the effect of Reifglätte and told me the same story or nearly the same story. 

    It has something to do how much energy is needed to heave electrons on another energy level...... or so Smiley I mean why you don´t see it with naked eyes .... 

    ... forget it ... Smiley

     

    Interesting, also the possible insurance implications of Reifglätte Smiley

    yes, worse in austria even, the insurance will surely find a reason not to pay. i will get winter wheels for the gt3rs this fall. they are the turbo s wheels (don' like them on the rs but......) and porsche charges 8k euros for them! crazy stuff......


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Never had any problems with R888 in cold temps. Don't drive recklessly and it's totally fine. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
     

    It has something to do how much energy is needed to heave electrons on another energy level...... or so Smiley I mean why you don´t see it with naked eyes .... 

    If the photons coming from the light source (ambient light) do not have enough energy to bump up the electrons of the material's atoms to a higher energy orbit, the photon will travel right through the atom, in other words, it won't be reflected back to your eyes, and so the material will let light pass through it and be transparent to light, i.e. invisible. I'm guessing this is what he was talking about in reference to that slippery frost.

    Its very interesting. The way you see light reflected by visible objects is because the photon's energy is enough to be able to hit the electron and the electron absorbs the photon, and that energy causes the electron to jump to a higher outer orbit which has higher energy, then electron will then drop back down to its initial orbit while at the same time produces a photon that will be sent back towards your eye. Electron orbits have electrons of a quantized energy that corresponds to that orbit, if the photon's energy does not match the necessary energy of the electron, the electron will not be able to jump orbit and so there is no interaction with the photon, and the photon is not reflected back, it goes through.

    Depending on how the material has its atoms bounded together, its electrons need more energy or less to be bumped by photons. So visible light does not have enough energy for example to be able to bump the electrons of glass for example, or of diamond, though diamond is so hard (the hardest of all) that it will slow down the photons causing them to change the angle of direction more than glass as they pass though (like a prism), which is why it makes it sparkle more than any other gem since light is more twisted all over the place as it crosses it many plains with which it was cut with, and comes out in many angles, which you see as shining or sparkling. 

    This is also why metals are shinny, since they atoms are bonded via metallic bonds and in such bonds the electrons are free to move around the group of atoms like a collective cloud, so its very easy to bump those electrons and the photon reflect back at you, and this is also why metals are such good conductors since those electrons can move so freely, compared to ioninc bonds or especially covalent bonds which hold the electrons very tightly (ie. diamond is carbon atoms with covalent bonds in a crystal lattice).

    And this is how in RT we can highjack a McLaren thread with quantum physics SmileySmiley


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    crayphile:
    noone1:

    Semi slicks in cold weather, if dry, is fine.

    I'm not sitting in that car with youSmiley. Super Trofeos are very slippery at low temps.

    So are Cup2 in 40F rain...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Carlos from Spain:
    ALDO:
     

    It has something to do how much energy is needed to heave electrons on another energy level...... or so Smiley I mean why you don´t see it with naked eyes .... 

    If the photons coming from the light source (ambient light) do not have enough energy to bump up the electrons of the material's atoms to a higher energy orbit, the photon will travel right through the atom, in other words, it won't be reflected back to your eyes, and so the material will let light pass through it and be transparent to light, i.e. invisible. I'm guessing this is what he was talking about in reference to that slippery frost.

    Its very interesting. The way you see light reflected by visible objects is because the photon's energy is enough to be able to hit the electron and the electron absorbs the photon, and that energy causes the electron to jump to a higher outer orbit which has higher energy, then electron will then drop back down to its initial orbit while at the same time produces a photon that will be sent back towards your eye. Electron orbits have electrons of a quantized energy that corresponds to that orbit, if the photon's energy does not match the necessary energy of the electron, the electron will not be able to jump orbit and so there is no interaction with the photon, and the photon is not reflected back, it goes through.

    Depending on how the material has its atoms bounded together, its electrons need more energy or less to be bumped by photons. So visible light does not have enough energy for example to be able to bump the electrons of glass for example, or of diamond, though diamond is so hard (the hardest of all) that it will slow down the photons causing them to change the angle of direction more than glass as they pass though (like a prism), which is why it makes it sparkle more than any other gem since light is more twisted all over the place as it crosses it many plains with which it was cut with, and comes out in many angles, which you see as shining or sparkling. 

    This is also why metals are shinny, since they atoms are bonded via metallic bonds and in such bonds the electrons are free to move around the group of atoms like a collective cloud, so its very easy to bump those electrons and the photon reflect back at you, and this is also why metals are such good conductors since those electrons can move so freely, compared to ioninc bonds or especially covalent bonds which hold the electrons very tightly (ie. diamond is carbon atoms with covalent bonds in a crystal lattice).

    And this is how in RT we can highjack a McLaren thread with quantum physics SmileySmiley


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    maybe we don´t share the same political opinion but at least both of us seems to love physics - in this case I can sacrifice my beloved McLaren thread Smiley

     


    --

    AM


     
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