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    Some Nurburgring websites

    I was just surfing for some useful websites for the Nurburgring Nordschleiffe (Northern Loop) and I came across these:

    http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring
    http://www.nurburgring.com/
    http://nuerburgring.gosign.de/home.324.0.html
    http://www.heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Does anybody have other useful websites to share?

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    These brokers appear to offer track day insurance as part of an annual insurance policy:

    http://www.nowellandrichards.co.uk/track-day-insurance.aspx

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Herts Insurance Consultants (HIC) offer track day cover in the UK only...

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Does anybody have other useful websites to share?



    Hehe, reminds me of our phone chat yesterday

    Here you can buy a quite nice NoS guide (map, booklet with instructions + DVD)
    http://www.ideallinie-konzept.de/

    This is also quite helpful though unfortunately in German only (don't know whether there is a version in English)
    http://www.bmw.com/generic/com/de/fascination/bmwm/automobiles/specials/_pdf/bmwm_nordschleife.pdf

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Exactly Porsche-Jeck

    It's killing me that I can't go on the Nordschleiffe without taking a real risk with my car. I've phoned various UK insurance companies, insurance brokers etc etc and they all specifically exclude the Nurburgring.

    I have explained to them that it is a public road with a toll and that it is merely speed de-restricted so the position they are adopting is not logical. However, they only care about the particular terms of the insurance policy... i.e. if you don't like their terms, you can get insurance from someone else... The problem is that this is seen as a very high risk activity with only a niche market...plus the ABI (Association of British Insurers) which is an industry association defending the UK insurance companies is ensuring that none of them break this unwritten practice of refusing to cover the Nurburgring...

    I really hate them

    I did explain that German insurance companies do cover this. Their answer? We can't comment on that. We can only comment on what we do in the UK.

    A broker quoted me Pounds500 for 2 days track day cover but only for track days happening in the UK not at the Nurburgring.

    Aagghhhh! It's driving me crazy....

    On Ben Lovejoy's website, he says that UK drivers should consider themselves UNINSURED and therefore we should drive accordingly...However, that doesn't help much if, for example, one suffers an accident caused by another UK driver who is also uninsured! One would have to sue that driver through the courts back in England for compensation.....that could take years...

    It takes a brave person to drive on the Ring with NO insurance. A new 997S with options can cost around Pounds80k (i.e. around US$160k, Euro 120k). That's a lot of money to lose.

    Moreover, what if one accidentally hits someone else and they get seriously injured or, heaven forbid, even die?? They or their representative could sue you for compensation. In the case of death, that can cost hundreds of thousands of PoundsPoundsPoundsPounds!!!

    I am so upset about this I could scream!

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    On Ben Lovejoy's website, he says that UK drivers should consider themselves UNINSURED and therefore we should drive accordingly...However, that doesn't help much if, for example, one suffers an accident caused by another UK driver who is also uninsured! One would have to sue that driver through the courts back in England for compensation.....that could take years...





    That is incredible. I understand "uninsured" in the sense, that the UK insurance companies even wouldn't cover the damages/injuries of a (not guilty) third party ?

    It would be illegal to drive a car without insurance on a German public road (and Nordschleife is a public road during the "Touristenfahrten").

    I can't imagine that the management of the Nürburgring GmbH would allow UK cars to drive on the Ring, if they'd know that the cars are (de facto) uninsured

    I see why you hate the insurance companies, but I have a simple solution for you: generous as I am I offer you to register your car on my name German number plate + German insurance company = problem solved
    Plus the fancy numperplates (911, 997 etc.) are for free over here

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    @Porsche-Jeck: that's right, UK insurers will reject any insurance claim for accidents or personal injury on the Nordschleiffe whether one is at fault or not.

    In the UK, insurance contracts are a special kind of contract which we call "contracts uberrimae fidei" i.e. contracts of the utmost good faith. These kinds of contracts have much higher disclosure requirements by the insured party and the English courts have always interpreted the contractual terms of insurance policies as narrowly as possible under the 'contra proferentem principle' whereby the term relied upon is interpreted against the party seeking to rely on it placing the onus of proof on that party to rebut the presumption against it.

    The other key problem is that insurance contracts in English law are viewed very much as creatures of contractual negotiation so the terms, no matter how one-sided against the insured party, are deemed to be sacrosanct.

    As such, even if it is absurd to provide insurance cover for a UK driver while he is driving from London to Nurburg on the way to the Ring but not to provide cover on the Ring itself, the English courts will respect this as being what the parties agreed. It's a classical view on the freedom of the parties to form whatever contract they choose.

    As for the German law implications, I fear this is a situation that 'falls between the cracks' i.e. German authorities will assume that UK drivers have valid insurance cover. After all, they are driving from the UK to Europe. But the German authorities should not take for granted the fact that UK insurance policies contain specific exclusion clauses which exclude liability on the part of the insurance company if the accident/damage/injury happens on the Ring itself.

    Hey, Porsche-Jeck, registering MY car in YOUR name? That would be really generous of me, not you!

    If I registered my car in Germany, it would have to cease to be registered in the UK. The problem is that, under UK law, if a car remains in the UK for >6months, it needs to be registered in the UK with UK number plates.

    I know so many people keep their cars on foreign plates in the UK but it's illegal.

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Hey, Porsche-Jeck, registering MY car in YOUR name? That would be really generous of me, not you!


    Haha, I knew that you would say this


    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    If I registered my car in Germany, it would have to cease to be registered in the UK. The problem is that, under UK law, if a car remains in the UK for >6months, it needs to be registered in the UK with UK number plates.



    My generousity seems to be endless today - I also have a simple solution for this problem....

    Easy, thanks a lot for providing some insight re the legal background Sounds like a ticking timebomb

    I guess in my case I should be covered though in case a UK Ring nut would bump into my baby (god forbid). As long as my car has the full insurance ("Vollkasko") my own insurance would pay and therafter it would be their turn to go after the UK driver/car owner. Same goes for the health insurance (in case of injuries). Though any further claims still would be a problem

    BTW in Germany there is a kind of emergency fund, which pays (though only a fraction of what the regular insurance company would pay) if an uninsured car causes an accident (the emergency fund again goes after the guilty party then).

    Of course this fund doesn't help if the UK car bumps into a Belgian or Dutch car on the Ring. Geeeez, this stuff reminds of the international law lessons at the university

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    It's killing me that I can't go on the Nordschleiffe without taking a real risk with my car. I've phoned various UK insurance companies, insurance brokers etc etc and they all specifically exclude the Nurburgring.



    Easy two step solution...

    Move your policy to A Manning. 01491 578 759.

    Book up with http://www.rma-limited.com for their 8th and 9th November event, safe in the knowledge that you ARE NOW COVERED on the Ring.

    A Manning cover Uk and European trackdays (including the Ring) provided the organiser is a member of the ATDO (association of track day organisers).

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Does anybody have other useful websites to share?



    I have an excellent guide (3mb PDF file, in English) from Sport Auto magazine. PM your email address and I'll send it over.

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    I guess in my case I should be covered though in case a UK Ring nut would bump into my baby (god forbid). As long as my car has the full insurance ("Vollkasko") my own insurance would pay and therafter it would be their turn to go after the UK driver/car owner. Same goes for the health insurance (in case of injuries).



    Exactly right You would make a claim under your own insurance policy (and remember that this claim may count as a 'fault' claim by you unless your insurer is successful at recouping the money from the UK driver who is deemed to be uninsured because his own UK insurer will not cover claims on the Ring).

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    BTW in Germany there is a kind of emergency fund, which pays (though only a fraction of what the regular insurance company would pay) if an uninsured car causes an accident (the emergency fund again goes after the guilty party then).



    We have the same thing. We have an emergency fund run by the Motor Insurers' Bureau that covers claims against uninsured drivers, hit and run drivers etc etc. But it pays out less than a normal claim.

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Of course this fund doesn't help if the UK car bumps into a Belgian or Dutch car on the Ring. Geeeez, this stuff reminds of the international law lessons at the university



    The Belgian/Dutch driver would claim on their own Green Card insurance issued by their Belgian/Dutch insurer back in their home country for accident/personal injury etc that happened while overseas in Germany. Their insurer would then try to recoup the money paid out from the UK driver. We call this process "subrogation".

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    Thanks ScottL Sounds like you have a solution...

    I need to arrange an annual insurance policy that would include UK & European track days and the Nordschleiffe. It works out much cheaper if the cost of cover for those few days per year are absorbed into an annual calculation.

    It's obviously MUCH more expensive if one merely gets cover just for one weekend etc.

    I'll give them a call today

    Also, pls check your inbox for my PM. Cheers mate

    Re: Some Nurburgring websites

    A Manning Ltd arranges cover through Allianz for organised track days and 'closed' driving days at the Ring (not driving on the Ring when it is open to the public).

    About Pounds1000 per year with unlimited number of track days plus trips to Europe up to 45 days long. Very good price.

     
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