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    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    My dealer also heard from his district rep that there will be 08's made now! I'm first on the list for the next one so my dealer asked me to spec one out. I'm thrilled of course that they are making a few more.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    frayed, I'm just glad the conversation has gone from "if" to "how many". I am #1 with my dealer that only got 1 last year. If my "source" is correct then I will be able to order one. Hope so.
    Rich

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Awesome, good luck with that.

    Now I'm stuck. I received my GT3 on Saturday, and I'm not terribly interested in parting with it even for the RS. Looks like I'll likely pass, as I've grown tired of jumping from car to car.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    08 RS's

    Same price as the 07's?

    Produce on Oct/Nov 07 is it still a 08 model?

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    I believe Oct and Nov builds are indeed 08 models; after the factory opens up after their siesta in August, 08 builds begin.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    David, I am very much aware that the RS is a track car. Porsche leasing will not lease the car claiming it is a track car. But do you believe that the buyers of the RS will use the car for only track events? If so, you you are more naive then I take you for.

    I would wager most of the miles will be done on public road and very few if any at the track. The spectacle of a track dedicated Porsche driving around with a huge silly tail and writing on the side of the car will be comical . I wonder if the owners will be driving their RS around town wearing their flame retardant suits, gloves and crash helmet.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    David, I am very much aware that the RS is a track car. Porsche leasing will not lease the car claiming it is a track car. But do you believe that the buyers of the RS will use the car for only track events? If so, you you are more naive then I take you for.

    I would wager most of the miles will be done on public road and very few if any at the track. The spectacle of a track dedicated Porsche driving around with a huge silly tail and writing on the side of the car will be comical . I wonder if the owners will be driving their RS around town wearing their flame retardant suits, gloves and crash helmet.



    Nick,

    Here's what I think. I think you are slowly but surely becoming a decent driver and you are beginning to realize that the F430 convertible (presuming you own the yellow one in your avatar) is inferior to the GT3 and RS by a mile. So you lust for the GT3 and RS and, what is more, I think you actually prefer the RS because it makes a bigger statement that the GT3, and given your liking of yellow F-cars it seems you do like posing. So you want an RS but you are late in the game and can't get one and you regress back into childhood and try talking it down instead. I mean why else would you hang around in Porsche forums. Am I close?

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Park Place in TX is showing one RS in stock.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Oh my you caught me. I don't own a Ferrari and never have. Regardless of my ownership status, I remain puzzled as to why the RS is in demand. Porsche's are all about Performance. Distinguishing Porsche's is another matter. Only the Porschephiles can tell one Porsche from another.

    So if Porsche's are about performance, we know that the 997TT, 996GT2, 997GT3, the coming 997GT2 and 997TTX50 will perform as well if not better than the RS. The greatest Porsche of them all the CGT will spank the RS so bad, it will, to borrow a phrase, make it look like it was tied to a tree stump. Yet, all these cars are selling at MSRP and in the case of the GT2 and CGT about 33% less than MSRP.

    So help me out. Explain why the RS is commanding a $50,000 premium? I am just a poor clod lusting after Porsche's. I really would like to be educated about this situation.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    US GT3RS's are being sold into Canada.
    The MSRP for a RS in Canada is US$154,000. In the US its $126,000. I'm not sure about your "$50,000" premium, but the $30,000 premium Canadian buyers are willing to pay AND they are paying it.
    Again, it is not the only reason for this anomoly, but it is a driving force.
    Porsche has not adjusted it's pricing in Canada to account for the US/CDN dollar disparity - if they did they would wipe out the value of Pre-Owned Porsche's sitting on Canadian dealers lots.

    Further b/c there are so few RS's allocated, 239 in the US and only 12 in Canada, its easy to see why US dealers are doing this. They don't care if it is a Canadian, or an American who buys the car so long as they are getting at least the $30,000 above MSRP.

    There are many re-sellers/brokers of premium cars in Canada, especially the Toronto area and they are all selling US models, due to the currency disparity. I know, b/c I have one around the corner from my office. Further a very good friend of mine was doing the oppposite - and making a good living at it - in the 80's when the disparity favoured buying cars (particularily GM cars) in Canada and selling into the US.

    Believe me, it's there and it is a seriously DRIVING force/problem. Back in those days it got so bad that GM started to not honour warranty for Canadian GM cars that were brought to US dealers for warranty work - it was a huge issue.
    On March 28 2007 Porsche announced the same - ie Canadian Porsche dealers will not honour warranty work on US cars brought into Canadian dealers.

    If you are naiive to think that Canada couldn't be a driving force, note that the Toronto area has the highest number of Ferrari's per capita outside of the Southern California area.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    So help me out. Explain why the RS is commanding a $50,000 premium? I am just a poor clod lusting after Porsche's. I really would like to be educated about this situation.



    Beacause that's what people are prepared to pay?! I wouldn't, I think the $20k premium is about right. You haven't tried either, and before you do you have nothing to be confused about.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    US GT3RS's are being sold into Canada.
    The MSRP for a RS in Canada is US$154,000. In the US its $126,000. I'm not sure about your "$50,000" premium, but the $30,000 premium Canadian buyers are willing to pay AND they are paying it.
    Again, it is not the only reason for this anomoly, but it is a driving force.
    Porsche has not adjusted it's pricing in Canada to account for the US/CDN dollar disparity - if they did they would wipe out the value of Pre-Owned Porsche's sitting on Canadian dealers lots.

    Further b/c there are so few RS's allocated, 239 in the US and only 12 in Canada, its easy to see why US dealers are doing this. They don't care if it is a Canadian, or an American who buys the car so long as they are getting at least the $30,000 above MSRP.

    There are many re-sellers/brokers of premium cars in Canada, especially the Toronto area and they are all selling US models, due to the currency disparity. I know, b/c I have one around the corner from my office. Further a very good friend of mine was doing the oppposite - and making a good living at it - in the 80's when the disparity favoured buying cars (particularily GM cars) in Canada and selling into the US.

    Believe me, it's there and it is a seriously DRIVING force/problem. Back in those days it got so bad that GM started to not honour warranty for Canadian GM cars that were brought to US dealers for warranty work - it was a huge issue.
    On March 28 2007 Porsche announced the same - ie Canadian Porsche dealers will not honour warranty work on US cars brought into Canadian dealers.

    If you are naiive to think that Canada couldn't be a driving force, note that the Toronto area has the highest number of Ferrari's per capita outside of the Southern California area.



    You know of two instances where this has happened. I doubt those instances caused a $123,000 car to be listed at $200,000 if not more. Additionally, most of the 997RS's were ordered and delivered to customers. No doubt a few were kept by dealers to be sold at premium prices.

    But your right I am naive particularly regarding this car. Add bigger brakes, different suspension, lettering on the side and huge wing on to a $103,000 car(GT3) and voila sell it for $200,000. No doubt I am naive.

    JFT, the RS is a better car than the GT3 and it was priced right at $123,000. On that we agree.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Nick, I actually agree that paying a premium for the RS is absurd, but I don't agree with your assessment of the car on its merits. Statements like "we know that the 997TT, 996GT2, 997GT3, the coming 997GT2 and 997TTX50 will perform as well if not better than the RS" are obtuse.

    And, your comparo on premiums of a *used* GT2 or a CGT are of limited significance. CGTs got a premium when they came out, remember? CGTs were 440k cars made out of carbon fiber and run on pixie dust and star twinkles. I fail to see the relevance to the RS.

    Green GT3 RS available for sale

    Well, the dealer I sold my CS to http://www.thegallerydenver.com sold my car and now has a green GT3 RS available. Not sure what he is asking for it, but he said it is a non ceramic break car so there's a bit of a cost savings there if one is just going to tool around town in it.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    frayed said:
    Nick, I actually agree that paying a premium for the RS is absurd, but I don't agree with your assessment of the car on its merits. Statements like "we know that the 997TT, 996GT2, 997GT3, the coming 997GT2 and 997TTX50 will perform as well if not better than the RS" are obtuse.

    And, your comparo on premiums of a *used* GT2 or a CGT are of limited significance. CGTs got a premium when they came out, remember? CGTs were 440k cars made out of carbon fiber and run on pixie dust and star twinkles. I fail to see the relevance to the RS.



    To my knowledge very few if any CGT's went for more then MSRP. I know because I seriously considered one though I did not place a $50,000 deposit. I lusted after a black one but could not pull the trigger because of the all black interior even though at the time it was selling for $415,000. Also, a friend who who owns over 35 premium cars had a $50,000 deposit on one and backed out. He told me his reason for doing so was the car will tank in value. In retrospect he knew the market.

    My view is the the GT3 is the Porsche to own if your interested in tracking events and using it for occasional transportation. I was impressed with the 996GT3 and I am sure the 997GT3 is much better. For the better drivers who want only a track car the RS is hard to beat but not for 30-50,000 over MSRP.

    With this post my jihad against the RS is over.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    With this post my jihad against the RS is over.



    Try one. Then feel free to spread your wisdom again!

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    JFT said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    With this post my jihad against the RS is over.



    Try one. Then feel free to spread your wisdom again!



    I know you mean well but please keep in mind I have spent several hours driving the CGT and several more as a passenger. Though I am sure the RS is a very good car, I doubt very much it would impress me.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Lucky you are in the US, in Europe, no car holds its value. Not even Ferraris.

    There are so many good cars out there at or below MSRP that no car is worth paying over. That whole RS thing will be soon gone when Porsche makes more of them anyway.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Glad to see you at peace with the RS, Nick.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    David, I am very much aware that the RS is a track car. Porsche leasing will not lease the car claiming it is a track car. But do you believe that the buyers of the RS will use the car for only track events? If so, you you are more naive then I take you for.

    I would wager most of the miles will be done on public road and very few if any at the track. The spectacle of a track dedicated Porsche driving around with a huge silly tail and writing on the side of the car will be comical . I wonder if the owners will be driving their RS around town wearing their flame retardant suits, gloves and crash helmet.



    Nick, this is where you again give evidence of your twisted cynical thinking. First the GT3RS is not just a track only car but a track & road car. Understand that Porsche's intended purpose for a car has nothing to do with who buys the car and what they do with it. They have no control over that. If you want to bitch about drivers buying the GT3RS and using it only to drive on city streets, and never on the track, go ahead. I won't stop you, but you need to produce evidence such drivers exist. Otherwise I think it's just you being cynical again. Even if you find such drivers, you may criticize the driver, but not the car. See the difference? Your criticism about the GT3RS was the wing that you called "silly". How is that silly considering the car is for the track AND regular roads? Did you know the GT3RS also has a roll cage? Is that silly too? You need to separate in your mind what the car is for and what you cynically think the reason is why people buy the car. You seem to think these specialized Porshce models are just for people to show off. I think a better car for that intended purporse is a Ferrari.

    David

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Nick, what makes a 430 spyder worth $50K over sticker? Poseur premium? .... Each and every night I pray to the spirit of The Old Man-- Enzo that you don't wear gold chains on the outside of your t-shirt while driving the 430-- tangled in chest hair?? ....I am sure you do not, just having a little fun, sorry.
    The RS wing is ridiculously huge, but so what? It's fully functional and yeah it's bolted to a Kermit the frog green 997 body... we Porsche fanatics have our quirks, so sue us!

    The new GT3 RS will be available for sticker + $10K or less in 6 or 7 months, mark my words... the actual current RS market is +$30K for anyone willing to spend an hour phoning around, don't put too much stock in the $200K hype...I suppose SOMEONE somewhere may pay $190K for a GT3RS, just like somebody w/low price elasticity/demand might pay $340K for a 430 cab. On the legal front, do you have any knowledge of whether anything has yet transpired on the legal action regarding Ben K./Cory R. CGT tragedy?

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    In terms of actual "hard goods" I don't know that the RS is worth $20K, or better yet $70K more than a GT3. But then there's the rule of supply and demand. In '07, 227 RS' were shipped to the states... There are more than 227 people that want one...this is where the bidding begins. If there are people willing to pay $50K over... that's the new price.
    Welcome to business 101.
    Doesn't have to make sense to you... but for those people that have the cake... $50K isn't a lot of money to have the toy that you want...

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Where is the proof that the "demand" for the RS is there?
    Explain that to me.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    Nick, what makes a 430 spyder worth $50K over sticker? Poseur premium? .... Each and every night I pray to the spirit of The Old Man-- Enzo that you don't wear gold chains on the outside of your t-shirt while driving the 430-- tangled in chest hair?? ....I am sure you do not, just having a little fun, sorry.
    The RS wing is ridiculously huge, but so what? It's fully functional and yeah it's bolted to a Kermit the frog green 997 body... we Porsche fanatics have our quirks, so sue us!

    The new GT3 RS will be available for sticker + $10K or less in 6 or 7 months, mark my words... the actual current RS market is +$30K for anyone willing to spend an hour phoning around, don't put too much stock in the $200K hype...I suppose SOMEONE somewhere may pay $190K for a GT3RS, just like somebody w/low price elasticity/demand might pay $340K for a 430 cab. On the legal front, do you have any knowledge of whether anything has yet transpired on the legal action regarding Ben K./Cory R. CGT tragedy?



    Damien, Ben's case was resolved. His estate was dismissed and his widow and child can proceed with their lives without fear of future litigation regarding this tragic matter.

    However, I believe (once we resolved the case against Ben and his estate, there was no need for me to remain in the case) the litigation remains with some of the defendants and Porsche.

    BTW the premium for the Spider is a ticket to get into the club to buy future cars at MSRP. At that point, most of your Ferrari driving pleasures are close to cost free.

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Ben's case was resolved. His estate was dismissed and his widow and child can proceed with their lives without fear of future litigation regarding this tragic matter.



    That is great news! Have an excellent weekend!

    --jason

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Nick, take a RS for a drive and just enlighten us on your experience. Seriously. I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

    And no the RS is not a track car only. It's a car that can be enjoyed both on or off track. Saying its a track car only is like saying a Stradale is a track car only, and to my memory you've never stated anything like that.


    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Why don't you American guys buy a GT3 RS in Europe ? Plenty for sale at or just below the listed prices. Even with shipping costs etcetera, it won't cost you the ridiculous extra $ 50000 or more...

    For example : on mobile.de : 12 GTR RS for sale in Germany

    Re: Chances of finding a GT3 RS in North America?

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Where is the proof that the "demand" for the RS is there?
    Explain that to me.



    Proof for the demand.... Go try to buy one.
    How long would they have lasted at MSRP... or even $20K over...
    I'm still not saying it makes sense. People were paying $30K over for the Vette Z06... . If supply even came close to meeting demand would the RS be still selling for over sticker... ummm....no. The carrera S is an amazing car and you can get those at a discount. Yes there is demand for that car, but there is also supply.

     
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