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    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    ALDO:
    RC:
    ALDO:
    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    Did you try to get a new 720s? The demand for that car is huge. The problem with used cars is similar to Bentley - the one who can afford a new don´t buy used.

     

    So what about those who cannot afford a new one? SmileySmiley

    I mean there are lot of people who spend 363.000 € on a new 720s (the price is the one I would like to have) and change it one or two years later for the new 720 s spider without thinking how much money they lose. 

    The same situation you have with Bentley owners. 

    A normal 720 s costs about 250.000 € - with this car you do not have any significant loss in resale value. The problem starts when you specify 360.000 € for a 720 s and try to sell it two years later. Nobody is willing you to pay the extra money for the MSO parts.  

     

    The true problem is that the market for McLaren is still too small to absorb the existing cars. The number of people buying these cars for MSRP is still very small compared to - let's say - those in the market for a turbo s. That's why resale value is so low for McLaren.


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    that's the main problem affecting McLarens' resale, but the market will grow over time imo, they are putting good products out and not too expensive for what you get (if you don't take resale into account), so they will grow slowly.

    They started from scratch not too long ago and they other disadvantages as well over other established manufacturers like smaller dealer/service infrastructure, lower brand penetration, etc. but they are giving the other makers a run for their money and if they keep it up their market base will grow and resale will improve. But in order to achieve that their strategy is to offer good value MSRP compared to competition to draw in initial buyers and and keep the momentum going with many new versions, at the expense of depreciation.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Whether McLaren will survive will depend on its continued financial ability to repay its debt and whether additional cash will continue to be available for further development and new investment.

    McLaren's competition is very strong as it comes from huge automotive groups who are financially strong besides manufacturing excellent cars in very high demand, anyway.

    Apparently. revenues and profits have receded and on top of that there is a "mystery" government investigation into McLaren's shareholding/executive structure.

    http://www.cityam.com/288472/government-investigation-threatens-slow-down-mclaren

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/30/mystery-investigation-could-put-brake-mclarens-profits/

    My hunch feeling is that McLaren automotive will face financial problems. They have managed to bottom their flourishing F1 team, so why would anyone expect them to succeed in road cars against VW Group, FIAT-Chrysler and Mercedes?

    The best option for McLaren is to sell to M-B, a manufacturer that is not represented in their particular segment.

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    But their F1 situation is different, its dependent on changing rules, and irrelevant factors, besides their biggest problem is not their own chasis but engine supplier.

    I'm not a McLaren potential customer, they are not my type of sporstcar, too flashy and not enough practicality to be enjoyed like I want to, not a fan of their styling, also don't have atmospheric engines, but that is just my personal preferences and taste, there are many others  for others and so I doesn't mean I can't recognize that, in spite my initial distrust when they started, in their class they seem to be now delivering a great sportscars, they have my respect, we have several owners here that are very happy with them, and RT members are not easy to please, so I hope that they do succeed on the future and grow even more. Its also good for a new comer to stir up the established manufacturers and motivate them to give more to their clients 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    I like the design of some McLaren models and from what I understand they are dynamically very good. I haven't driven one and probably I will never have a chance to do so.

    However, it is not possible to succeed as an independent low volume manufacturer anymore. Too many demands for R&D, regulations, marketing and distribution etc. etc. that is difficult for an independent to surface financially in the longer term.

    Independents flourished in  the 60s when you could manufacture  a sportscar from a cottage somewhere in England and sell it with a bit of motorsport success. But even those didn't survive to the 90s.

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    I suspect, without any knowledge of course,  that the UK government investigation might relate to the £200 million shareholding that Iranian-Canadian Michael Latifi acquired into the McLaren Group last May through a BVI investment company.  This makes ML a 10% shareholder.

    Coincidentally Michael's son Nicholas happens to be the test driver of Force India.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Interesting - I got an insurance quote for a 600LT based on what you guys mentioned about insurance for R8s (naturally) and expensive-to-repair carbon tubs.  Well, they quoted me basically the same as I pay for the GT3..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    DaveGordon:

    Interesting - I got an insurance quote for a 600LT based on what you guys mentioned about insurance for R8s (naturally) and expensive-to-repair carbon tubs.  Well, they quoted me basically the same as I pay for the GT3..

    Good for you. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Did the same for a 720S; rate is slightly more expensive than the turbo


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    DaveGordon:

    Interesting - I got an insurance quote for a 600LT based on what you guys mentioned about insurance for R8s (naturally) and expensive-to-repair carbon tubs.  Well, they quoted me basically the same as I pay for the GT3..

    That's great!  I wonder if it's a case of too few repairs to have moved the needle on the insurance premiums?  You would need to have some McLaren crashes in the insurance database, but not such bad crashes that a steel/aluminum car wouldn't have been repaired for less than 75% of the depreciated value of the car (otherwise considered a total loss).

    Also, I wonder if the steeper depreciation curve of the McLaren could have played a role vs. GT3 (affects claim amount in case of total loss).

    And I guess you'd also want to consider whether the CF tub in the McLaren (while more expensive to repair) might provide better occupant safety and lower the claims amounts for personal injury...


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Yeah, quite likely. I imagine most McLarens here spend 99% of the time holed up in a garage, and just taken for a cruise down the Seestrasse on the occasional sunny Sunday. So probably few claims. My friend was telling me his X5 costs more to insure than his M5 - sounds counterintuitive, but apparently X5s are involved in far more claims due to bad drivers - whereas M5 drivers are apparently a bit more competent.


    --

     

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

     



    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    The 600 LT will be for sure the best-performing in its segment, as always with Mc Laren.

    I would love to drive a 600 LT at my trackdays.

    But what holds me up buying a McL is the huge depreciation of their models including the limited series like the 675 LT: In Germany it is about 100K EUR value loss that you face with the 675 LT after 2 years of ownership. Smiley

    I will therefore wait 1-2 years and buy a second hand 600 LT...


    --

    AMG GTR / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Here the 675 has done quite well, but all others (besides F1 and maybe P1) not very well at all.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    GoHardGT3RS:

    The 600 LT will be for sure the best-performing in its segment, as always with Mc Laren.

    I would love to drive a 600 LT at my trackdays.

    But what holds me up buying a McL is the huge depreciation of their models including the limited series like the 675 LT: In Germany it is about 100K EUR value loss that you face with the 675 LT after 2 years of ownership. Smiley

    I will therefore wait 1-2 years and buy a second hand 600 LT...

    Depreciation is certainly a problem but also a chance for second hand market buyers. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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