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Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Ferrari has a problem with the passenger airbag which they are unable to fix because of prohibitive repair costs. Ferrari petitioned and received an exemption from the DOT to sell the 430 in its present form in the US until September 1st, 2008 and none thereafter.
Jul 4, 2007 4:01:51 AM
- Atzporsche
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- Reply to: SrfCity
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/0
Quote:
SrfCity said:Quote:
ignacio said:Quote:
SrfCity said:
They'll get an extension.
aparently the extension runs out sept, 08. i don't see how they can grant any more extensions
They're working on it if it isn't already sewed up.
How do you know that?
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/0
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
SrfCity said:Quote:
ignacio said:Quote:
SrfCity said:
They'll get an extension.
aparently the extension runs out sept, 08. i don't see how they can grant any more extensions
They're working on it if it isn't already sewed up.
How do you know that?
A guy on F-chat works for a firm associated with FNA and this is what he claims. It's not confirmed by any means but I think the info is accurate.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136784164&postcount=17
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
F R&D would be as lethargic as P/L/VW/BMW R&D if it cannot come up w/a 430 replacement by Fall08....
430 has been remarkably archaic once 599 launched in US some 8 mos ago....repeat F buyers in US have already moved on to 599....
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
430 has been remarkably archaic once 599 launched in US some 8 mos ago....repeat F buyers in US have already moved on to 599....
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
i complained about the lack of side airbags on the f430 on this site and on ferrari chat over 2 years ago.
i was made fun of when i pointed out that porsche, mercedes, toyota, subaru an every other car company i could think of had side airbags for years, amd yet ferrari could not install them in a $200k car in 2004! 
i know ferraris are fun but we are all chumps for not insisting on safety equipment that is standard in an economy car!
favorable depreciation is not an issue if you suffer a serious head injury in a side impact accident. 
ferrari should be ashamed of itself. 
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
ignacio said:Quote:
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
i complained about the lack of side airbags on the f430 on this site and on ferrari chat over 2 years ago.
i know ferraris are fun but we are all chumps for not insisting on safety equipment that is standard in an economy car!
Are you able to identify an accident involving a 430 that lead to serious injury as a result of lack of side airbags?
I can name you a couple of accidents involving Porsche's which had side airbags but the occupants were nevertheless seriously injured or died.
I have no doubt side airbags are preferable but to characterize a car without them as a death trap is being disingenuous.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
nick
3 problems with your request:
1.) there are over 20 times more porsche's produced than ferraris
.
2.)porsche drivers frequently drive their cars regularly--ferraris are usually garage queens.
3.)"disingenuous" is defined as:1. Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating by the TheFreeDictionary. is that what you mean? i suspect you mean inaccurate. right?
finally, can you seriously tell me you'd rather be in your f430 when you are broadsided by a chevy suburban than in in a porsche 996 0r 997?
we are all so blinded by ferrari's aura and beauty that we ignore the fact that basic 21st century safety equipment is being omitted in order to maximize profits. that's why i said we are being chumps.
Are you able to identify an accident involving a 430 that lead to serious injury as a result of lack of side airbags?
I can name you a couple of accidents involving Porsche's which had side airbags but the occupants were nevertheless seriously injured or died.
I have no doubt side airbags are preferable but to characterize a car without them as a death trap is being disingenuous.
3 problems with your request:
1.) there are over 20 times more porsche's produced than ferraris
.
2.)porsche drivers frequently drive their cars regularly--ferraris are usually garage queens.
3.)"disingenuous" is defined as:1. Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating by the TheFreeDictionary. is that what you mean? i suspect you mean inaccurate. right?
finally, can you seriously tell me you'd rather be in your f430 when you are broadsided by a chevy suburban than in in a porsche 996 0r 997?
we are all so blinded by ferrari's aura and beauty that we ignore the fact that basic 21st century safety equipment is being omitted in order to maximize profits. that's why i said we are being chumps.
Are you able to identify an accident involving a 430 that lead to serious injury as a result of lack of side airbags?
I can name you a couple of accidents involving Porsche's which had side airbags but the occupants were nevertheless seriously injured or died.
I have no doubt side airbags are preferable but to characterize a car without them as a death trap is being disingenuous.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Ignacio, I believe you understand as well as anyone else that the Ferrari 430 does not pose a greater risk than other performance cars. Thus, I believe your not being strightforward when admonishing Ferrari for their failure to provided side airbags.
Additionally, you may well be calculating in trying to force Ferrari's hand to provide side airbags with your Internet Jihad against Ferrari (not there is anything wrong with it
). 
Additionally, you may well be calculating in trying to force Ferrari's hand to provide side airbags with your Internet Jihad against Ferrari (not there is anything wrong with it
).
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
WBH said:
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
What is in the water you drink or do you get such thoughts from Playstation 2 notes??
You guys worried about being broadsided by Suburbans or being the target of 23MM cannon fire from impromptu MIG-29 strafings on 280 need to give up sports cars and just get Volvos or surplus Porsche Leopard 1 tanks.
When it comes to product liability issues, design defects and actually proving them in a court of law you should listen to Nick. He is a pro. Your "what ifs" just arent worth anything. No what if about that. Sorry.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
nberry said:
Ignacio, I believe you understand as well as anyone else that the Ferrari 430 does not pose a greater risk than other performance cars. Thus, I believe your not being strightforward when admonishing Ferrari for their failure to provided side airbags.
Additionally, you may well be calculating in trying to force Ferrari's hand to provide side airbags with your Internet Jihad against Ferrari (not there is anything wrong with it
nick
as a practicing neurologist since 1982 i remember the look of head injuries in mva's before airbags. i find no good reason for ferrari to be so irresponsible with their customers except that we're expendible
how long will it be before a berieved spouse takes ferrari to the cleaners by way of your profession when one of their customers suffers a wholly preventable head injury in a side impact accident? just the lost wages of a ferrari customer are likely to be quite substantial.
jihad? hardly. if i didn't care about ferrari i'd simply sign off.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Ignacio, as a neurologist I am amazed that you are not asking for more than just side air bags.
Would you accept the likelyhood that a Ferrari 430 has more structural integrity than a 1968 BMW 2002? Having been in a '68 2002 that was hit on the drivers front side by a huge 76 Buick 4dr going 50mph, I was able to walk away with just a few cuts. I suspect I could repeat that in a new F430. Ferraris are not tin pots on wheels by any stretch of the imagination.
Just having front and side airbags is not a panacea for surviving a crash. This Sunday my friend, a attorney and Judge Pro Tem of the Supreme Court of Kentucky, was killed while driving home in a one car accident. The car had front and side airbags, but kinetic energy still broke his neck. His car was not traveling at a high rate of speed either and he did have his seatbelt on. His car did not strike a tree or power pole. It was a one car roll over accident.
Unless you get a vehicle that has an advanced anti whiplash system like some Kia's and all new Saabs have, airbags are not enough to save you from fatal spinal cord injuries.
So to damn Ferrari for not having side airbags, while not mentioning preventing spinal cord injuries with seats that have active headrests, seems a bit uneven. To my knowledge Porsche does not include a advanced anti whiplash system on any of their current models. Ferrari does not either.
You could have all of your Porsche airbags go off, and kinetic energy can still break your neck and kill you. In Saabs and some Kia models, that is less likely to happen.
So to be fair you should also ask why Porsche does not match Saab or even Kia in equipment if safety feature matching is really your primary concern.
Would you accept the likelyhood that a Ferrari 430 has more structural integrity than a 1968 BMW 2002? Having been in a '68 2002 that was hit on the drivers front side by a huge 76 Buick 4dr going 50mph, I was able to walk away with just a few cuts. I suspect I could repeat that in a new F430. Ferraris are not tin pots on wheels by any stretch of the imagination.
Just having front and side airbags is not a panacea for surviving a crash. This Sunday my friend, a attorney and Judge Pro Tem of the Supreme Court of Kentucky, was killed while driving home in a one car accident. The car had front and side airbags, but kinetic energy still broke his neck. His car was not traveling at a high rate of speed either and he did have his seatbelt on. His car did not strike a tree or power pole. It was a one car roll over accident.
Unless you get a vehicle that has an advanced anti whiplash system like some Kia's and all new Saabs have, airbags are not enough to save you from fatal spinal cord injuries.
So to damn Ferrari for not having side airbags, while not mentioning preventing spinal cord injuries with seats that have active headrests, seems a bit uneven. To my knowledge Porsche does not include a advanced anti whiplash system on any of their current models. Ferrari does not either.
You could have all of your Porsche airbags go off, and kinetic energy can still break your neck and kill you. In Saabs and some Kia models, that is less likely to happen.
So to be fair you should also ask why Porsche does not match Saab or even Kia in equipment if safety feature matching is really your primary concern.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
WBH said:
F R&D would be as lethargic as P/L/VW/BMW R&D if it cannot come up w/a 430 replacement by Fall08....
430 has been remarkably archaic once 599 launched in US some 8 mos ago....repeat F buyers in US have already moved on to 599....
430 is simply laughable w/its lack of side/head airbags, dubious fuel tank crashworthiness, poor mid-range tq, and grandpa-like seats (since racing seats are no longer avail in US for 430).....
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Ignacio, as a neurologist I am amazed that you are not asking for more than just side air bags.
Would you accept the likelyhood that a Ferrari 430 has more structural integrity than a 1968 BMW 2002? Having been in a '68 2002 that was hit on the drivers front side by a huge 76 Buick 4dr going 50mph, I was able to walk away with just a few cuts. I suspect I could repeat that in a new F430. Ferraris are not tin pots on wheels by any stretch of the imagination.
Just having front and side airbags is not a panacea for surviving a crash. This Sunday my friend, a attorney and Judge Pro Tem of the Supreme Court of Kentucky, was killed while driving home in a one car accident. The car had front and side airbags, but kinetic energy still broke his neck. His car was not traveling at a high rate of speed either and he did have his seatbelt on. His car did not strike a tree or power pole. It was a one car roll over accident.
Unless you get a vehicle that has an advanced anti whiplash system like some Kia's and all new Saabs have, airbags are not enough to save you from fatal spinal cord injuries.
So to damn Ferrari for not having side airbags, while not mentioning preventing spinal cord injuries with seats that have active headrests, seems a bit uneven. To my knowledge Porsche does not include a advanced anti whiplash system on any of their current models. Ferrari does not either.
You could have all of your Porsche airbags go off, and kinetic energy can still break your neck and kill you. In Saabs and some Kia models, that is less likely to happen.
So to be fair you should also ask why Porsche does not match Saab or even Kia in equipment if safety feature matching is really your primary concern.
spinal cord injuries to the cervical spine are rare, head injuries are very common.
i am frankly not thinking about one car crashes at high speed. a skillful driver should be able to avoid those. i fear being hit by an innattentive driver in an suv or a pickup truck.
i don't expect an f430 ferrari to be a as safe as a volvo or a mercedes but it should be as safe as porsches that are half the price.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
ignacio said:Quote:
nberry said:
Ignacio, I believe you understand as well as anyone else that the Ferrari 430 does not pose a greater risk than other performance cars. Thus, I believe your not being strightforward when admonishing Ferrari for their failure to provided side airbags.
Additionally, you may well be calculating in trying to force Ferrari's hand to provide side airbags with your Internet Jihad against Ferrari (not there is anything wrong with it
nick
as a practicing neurologist since 1982 i remember the look of head injuries in mva's before airbags. i find no good reason for ferrari to be so irresponsible with their customers except that we're expendible
how long will it be before a berieved spouse takes ferrari to the cleaners by way of your profession when one of their customers suffers a wholly preventable head injury in a side impact accident? just the lost wages of a ferrari customer are likely to be quite substantial.
jihad? hardly. if i didn't care about ferrari i'd simply sign off.
I agree all car manufacturers need to do more regarding safety. However, a car equipped with every conceivable safety device does not assure safety. For an example, as you know head injuries can occur with very minor impacts depending on the nature and place of the impact. How many babies have died from head injuries because angry parents shaking them?
I do remember vividly your campaign against Ferrari a couple of years ago regarding side airbags. Your intentions are laudable but to make your point accusing Ferrari of considering their customers expendable is not.
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
I agree all car manufacturers need to do more regarding safety. However, a car equipped with every conceivable safety device does not assure safety. For an example, as you know head injuries can occur with very minor impacts depending on the nature and place of the impact. How many babies have died from head injuries because angry parents shaking them?
I do remember vividly your campaign against Ferrari a couple of years ago regarding side airbags. Your intentions are laudable but to make your point accusing Ferrari of considering their customers expendable is not.
nick -
i have testified on numerous occasions on shaken baby syndrome, both on behalf of the government and on behalf of those accused, depending on the facts. all are tragic cases.
i'm glad you agree that automakers should be doing more about safety.
my only point now as before is that ferrari is substandard in not providing side airbags in a $200,000 car. is this willful negligence? i will leave it to your profession to prove that but it appears clear to me. i am pleased that the government is calling ferrari to task for their current airbag design. i hope no more extensions are granted to the f430
Re: won't the f430 be sold in the u.s.a. after 9/08?
Quote:
woody77 said:
What are the likely changes, if any, to the '08 430 and when does Ferrari usually release the new model year?
New model year normally starts right after the factory holiday in August. But since they always have cars to finish from before the holidays, in September/October you can get the new or the old MY.
There are always minor changes, depending on problems that occur in the serial production or new emission standards for example. But mostly these changes are not visible.
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