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    Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    an EVO and CGT in a three way comparison. Here is what they had to say about the TT. Maybe Porsche should retool the car. The complaints seem to be very similar.

    "Swapping into the 911 Turbo is momentous, for it's the first time I've been near it, let alone driven it. The driving environment is reassuringly familiar: the big, central tacho complete with swirly 'turbo' branding, and the usefully large steering wheel gripped, it must be said, by a pair of increasingly sweaty hands.

    I give them a quick wipe on my jeans before pressing the Sport button (which enables overboost and activates stiffer suspension settings and a subtly altered throttle mapping) then the PASM button. Once again, Jethro is the unfortunate sack of spuds strapped in alongside me, and as we wind-up the pace on the out lap we shoot each other a nervous glance. The Turbo feels compact, as you'd expect, but it also feels stubbier than other 997s. Whether this is due to the widened rear track I'm not sure, but the Turbo definitely feels different.

    Our first flying lap is breathless, not just due to the stonking power (it peaks 9mph faster than the Evo) and eye-popping braking, but because it's proving a real handful. And I mean a real handful. Familiarity would surely smooth some of the rough edges from my inputs, but nevertheless the Turbo feels like a car at war with itself as much as with the circuit.

    I'm more aware of the rear-biased mass than in any other 997, and all corners bar the slow Hangar hairpin are accompanied by a pendulous sway of turn-in oversteer. It's not catastrophic, but feels significant enough to need gathering up, and you have to get that done before you can focus on finding your apex. It's a process made harder by a curious lack of feedback through the steering - just at the point you need to commit to your line. With the oversteer controlled and the Turbo apparently back on course, you squeeze on the power, only to find that it begins to understeer, imperceptibly at first, then more insistently as you attempt to get the power down. So you blend out of the throttle to regain front-end bite, only for the tail to feel light again...

    It's a frustrating, scrappy way to make progress. We noted an increased edge to fast lapping in the 911 C4, and it's something that more power and torque seems to have aggravated in the Turbo. Yet despite an unsettled subjective performance, there's no arguing with the lap time, a cracking 1.23.55, exactly a second quicker than the Evo."

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Sounds like they should have taken a little trouble to try to get the tire pressures right for track use?

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    I hardly think Porsche should retool the car (was that a serious comment btw )
    This was there conclusion (in short, not the 'i love typing version') :
    the Turbo manages to rock the GT on its heels , both with tremendous off-the-line ability and its ripling in gear response, before finally yielding when the pace becomes largely academic. On the road, it also holds its own, with dizzying, sustained pace and effortless overtaking punch.
    There's no denying it, when unleashed the 911 turbo is monstrously rapid. The everday supercar accolade is well deserved.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    High praise indeed.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    yes I too read this review and thought that it was not favorable .
    It seems to me that the turbo is something of a misunderstood child in the porsche house.
    This may be why EVERY review has been a multi car review. Turbo + mitsu EVO + CGT or Turbo + bently+Ferrari
    These scribes all seem to be trying to figure out if the turbo is more of a GT ( which I feel it is) or if it is the ultimate do everything supercar.

    Curiouse to others thoughts.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    I wish more people would be able to read and understand the tests from magazines outside the world of the English language. They would have a different understanding of the car. The French magazine Sport Auto gives the car a perfect 5 as does AMS from Germany. Sport Auto's conclusion is the following :

    "The new 911 Turbo overshadows its predecessor in every way thanks to 2 new weapons : VTG and active diff.(PTM). A tornado of luxury who has the added merit of being very tamable."

    I think this is what we want from the car in every day road conditions. And I have test upon test who claims more or less the same.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    I see it this way, since the Turbo out accelerates, out brakes, and turns in faster lap times than both the Gallardo and F430, it is a genuine supercar. At the same time its dual mode suspension allows it to be a comfortable long distance cruiser. IMHO this gives it additional capabilities rather than detracting from its supercar status. Someone mentioned something about tire pressures affecting the handling of the car in this test. This could be why they had such a hard time with the handling because all the other reviews I have read mentioned very neutral handling with some lift off oversteer at the limit. Car and Driver had a car with LSD and they praised its stability/handling/steering feel extensively. This leads me to believe that LSD transforms the handling of this car and is a "must have" option, giving it a true sports car feel.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Posting excerpts without making the full write-up available can be misleading. Here is the whole article.


    http://www.evo.co.uk/cargrouptests/cargr...ubishi_evo.html

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Quote:
    993S said:
    I hardly think Porsche should retool the car (was that a serious comment btw )
    This was there conclusion (in short, not the 'i love typing version') :
    the Turbo manages to rock the GT on its heels , both with tremendous off-the-line ability and its ripling in gear response, before finally yielding when the pace becomes largely academic. On the road, it also holds its own, with dizzying, sustained pace and effortless overtaking punch.
    There's no denying it, when unleashed the 911 turbo is monstrously rapid. The everday supercar accolade is well deserved.



    I was serious. They need to remove the vacuum cleaner sound exhaust and replace it with something more befitting of a supercar (if that is what it is). Second, other reviewrs have complained about lack of steering wheel feel and oversteer problems what has been referred to as a twitchy squirrely rear end. Yuck!

    Porsche should fix the damn car.

    BTW, Autocar slammed the 430 and found the Gallardo and 997TT better performing cars when they compared them. However, they did acknowledge that if they had too chose one car for excitement and sensation it would be the Ferrari. Not bad for a notoriously anti-ferrari magazine.

    I could care less about the turbo at "10/10 ths"

    because after 2000 miles of street driving in less than two months, I have never been happier about a car from the perspective of power, handling, steering feel and braking. If the GT3 or the CGT or F430 or C6Z are better track cars, fine.
    There is no better supercar for the street.

    Re: I could care less about the turbo at "10/10 ths"

    Nice Alan, enjoy.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Quote:
    Erik said:
    Posting excerpts without making the full write-up available can be misleading. Here is the whole article.




    My conclusion after reading the article was that the tester would have had a better experience if he were a seasoned 911 pilot.

    If one drives a lot of front or mid engined cars, to the exclusion of 911s, one can be almost blind to the sweetness and light of properly handled 911 behavior.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Not bad for a notoriously anti-Ferrari magazine.



    Nick,

    You're beginning to babble

    Re: I could care less about the turbo at "10/10 ths"

    That is the financial formula for success in the TT now. Fast and isolated.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    It appears he disabled the PASM. This would understandbly lead to the handling characteristics he mentions.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Nick, if you think a 911 needs to be retooled for handling you simply havent driven one fast enough.

    You have revealed youself to be in need of a remedial basic level Porsche 911 education and your whole Ferrari belief of it being the ne plus ultra handler requires a serious rethink on your part for your own sake and your safety.

    Write these down and memorize them. Within the limits of
    tire adhesion and velocity these are the 6 basic 911 rules.

    1. The 911 "twitchy handling" in cornering occurs if you chicken out and lift off the gas, thereby lightening the torque load effect and transfering the weight of the car and upsetting its balance.

    2. ALL 911's respond to power when it comes to handling. No power and you get no handling, its that simple.

    3. Don't step on the gas unless you really mean it.

    4. When in doubt, press the gas pedal harder and hold on.

    5. Repeat item 2.

    6. Repeat item 4.

    Its ultimate handling capabilities will not be achieved by the meak, timid or the inexperienced.

    Class over.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    I hardly think Porsche should retool the car (was that a serious comment btw )
    This was there conclusion (in short, not the 'i love typing version') :
    the Turbo manages to rock the GT on its heels , both with tremendous off-the-line ability and its ripling in gear response, before finally yielding when the pace becomes largely academic. On the road, it also holds its own, with dizzying, sustained pace and effortless overtaking punch.
    There's no denying it, when unleashed the 911 turbo is monstrously rapid. The everday supercar accolade is well deserved.



    I was serious. They need to remove the vacuum cleaner sound exhaust and replace it with something more befitting of a supercar (if that is what it is). Second, other reviewrs have complained about lack of steering wheel feel and oversteer problems what has been referred to as a twitchy squirrely rear end. Yuck!

    Porsche should fix the damn car.




    Although I would agree with you re exhaust sound, I actually believe that most clients are happy with the stock setup. Just about enough.
    It's an all purpose car. Attracting F430 clientele but also, and more, I think, Bentley GT, DB9, CL63, etc...
    It really is the compromise car by excellence, and it does an excellent job at it.
    For a proper hardcore noisy drive, opt for the GT3 or RS.
    As for the twitchy handling, I haven't driven one yet, but my 997 is 100% fine, best handling car I've ever driven, incl. F360 and Boxster. (I'm yet to drive a 430).

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick...



    Nick, I actually don't understand why you keep engaged with Porsche's products, not only the 997 Turbo.
    Not happy with your Ferrari?

    As good or bad the muted exhaust sound may be, there still is no other car that combines everyday driveability with supercar performance the way the Turbo does. If you need excitement, keep / buy a Ferrari.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick...



    Nick, I actually don't understand why you keep engaged with Porsche's products, not only the 997 Turbo.
    Not happy with your Ferrari?

    As good or bad the muted exhaust sound may be, there still is no other car that combines everyday driveability with supercar performance the way the Turbo does. If you need excitement, keep / buy a Ferrari.



    I believe German engineering and product quality are the best in the world. My quest is to change Porsche management philosphy regarding its models, their development, marketing and customer needs. I believe that if Porsche would give a freer hand to its performance engineers and reduce their insatiable appettite for profit, the Company would be better for it.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick...



    Nick, I actually don't understand why you keep engaged with Porsche's products, not only the 997 Turbo.
    Not happy with your Ferrari?

    As good or bad the muted exhaust sound may be, there still is no other car that combines everyday driveability with supercar performance the way the Turbo does. If you need excitement, keep / buy a Ferrari.



    I believe German engineering and product quality are the best in the world. My quest is to change Porsche management philosphy regarding its models, their development, marketing and customer needs. I believe that if Porsche would give a freer hand to its performance engineers and reduce their insatiable appettite for profit, the Company would be better for it.



    Well, currently the profit couldn't be better, at least VW nearly belongs to Porsche now.
    (this is also known as the revenge of the Piech family... )

    So what Porsche officials are doing may not be the best for the real enthusiasts (I agree), but these are a minority and so Porsche does the best for all rest (including Porsche and the Piech family ).

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick...



    Nick, I actually don't understand why you keep engaged with Porsche's products, not only the 997 Turbo.
    Not happy with your Ferrari?

    As good or bad the muted exhaust sound may be, there still is no other car that combines everyday driveability with supercar performance the way the Turbo does. If you need excitement, keep / buy a Ferrari.



    I believe German engineering and product quality are the best in the world. My quest is to change Porsche management philosphy regarding its models, their development, marketing and customer needs. I believe that if Porsche would give a freer hand to its performance engineers and reduce their insatiable appettite for profit, the Company would be better for it.



    Well, currently the profit couldn't be better, at least VW nearly belongs to Porsche now.
    (this is also known as the revenge of the Piech family... )

    So what Porsche officials are doing may not be the best for the real enthusiasts (I agree), but these are a minority and so Porsche does the best for all rest (including Porsche and the Piech family ).



    What would REALLY crack me up would be if Porsche bought Ferrari .

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick...



    Nick, I actually don't understand why you keep engaged with Porsche's products, not only the 997 Turbo.
    Not happy with your Ferrari?

    As good or bad the muted exhaust sound may be, there still is no other car that combines everyday driveability with supercar performance the way the Turbo does. If you need excitement, keep / buy a Ferrari.



    I believe German engineering and product quality are the best in the world. My quest is to change Porsche management philosphy regarding its models, their development, marketing and customer needs. I believe that if Porsche would give a freer hand to its performance engineers and reduce their insatiable appettite for profit, the Company would be better for it.



    Well, currently the profit couldn't be better, at least VW nearly belongs to Porsche now.
    (this is also known as the revenge of the Piech family... )

    So what Porsche officials are doing may not be the best for the real enthusiasts (I agree), but these are a minority and so Porsche does the best for all rest (including Porsche and the Piech family ).



    What would REALLY crack me up would be if Porsche bought Ferrari .



    Dream on Crash.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Nah, that was just a provocative statement. It would be a very bad thing for car enthusiasts, even if we're talking of Porsche. As long as there are Ferrari and Lambo to up the ante, sports cars will keep getting better (or at least until the european Green party coalition takes over ) and that includes Porsche.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    IPO is still planned. In the usual italian fashion, it is behind scheduled.
    I think Fiat is planning to buy back Mediobanca's share of Ferrari spa. and 10% is still owned by the Saudis.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    I hardly think Porsche should retool the car (was that a serious comment btw )
    This was there conclusion (in short, not the 'i love typing version') :
    the Turbo manages to rock the GT on its heels , both with tremendous off-the-line ability and its ripling in gear response, before finally yielding when the pace becomes largely academic. On the road, it also holds its own, with dizzying, sustained pace and effortless overtaking punch.
    There's no denying it, when unleashed the 911 turbo is monstrously rapid. The everday supercar accolade is well deserved.



    I was serious. They need to remove the vacuum cleaner sound exhaust and replace it with something more befitting of a supercar (if that is what it is). Second, other reviewrs have complained about lack of steering wheel feel and oversteer problems what has been referred to as a twitchy squirrely rear end. Yuck!

    Porsche should fix the damn car.




    Although I would agree with you re exhaust sound, I actually believe that most clients are happy with the stock setup. Just about enough.
    It's an all purpose car. Attracting F430 clientele but also, and more, I think, Bentley GT, DB9, CL63, etc...
    It really is the compromise car by excellence, and it does an excellent job at it.
    For a proper hardcore noisy drive, opt for the GT3 or RS.
    As for the twitchy handling, I haven't driven one yet, but my 997 is 100% fine, best handling car I've ever driven, incl. F360 and Boxster. (I'm yet to drive a 430).



    So true...

    IMO, 997TT, CL/SL63/65 and 599 are increasingly interchangeable as outstanding daily commuter cars serving an upscale urban buyer who prob rarely (if ever) goes to any track and may/may not even have (or choose to visit) local twisties to critically eval any car's chassis/at-lim handling...

    599 sounds to be rather MB-like w/its comfort&daily-use-oriented features and fuel tank capac, but has great exhaust note, tq for urban fwys and fast paddle shifters....

    AMG seems increasingly focused on sharper steering; clearly knows how to engineer inspiring exhaust notes; and its new-gen ABC susp and paddle-shifters are excellent...

    And, at very least, 997TT will be rainy-day, high-trac AWD commuter car of choice during the rainy SF winter....

    IMO, each of the "Big 3" has critical weaknesses, such that I couldn't deal w/having just one of any of these cars for both wkdays and wkends....but welcome the competitive forces causing mfrs to attempt to correct each car's weaknesses over time, yet w/lim ability to raise prices....

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    I believe German engineering and product quality are the best in the world. My quest is to change Porsche management philosphy regarding its models, their development, marketing and customer needs. I believe that if Porsche would give a freer hand to its performance engineers and reduce their insatiable appettite for profit, the Company would be better for it.



    I would applaud that if it were true, but your cynicism is often times a bit overbearing and often directed towards owners rather than the manufacturer...

    ----------

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    1. The 911 "twitchy handling" in cornering occurs if you chicken out and lift off the gas, thereby lightening the torque load effect and transfering the weight of the car and upsetting its balance.

    2. ALL 911's respond to power when it comes to handling. No power and you get no handling, its that simple.




    I couldn't agree more Jim. I'm not an experienced Porsche driver but I'll give you a little anecdote:

    I had 2 friends who worked for LNS motorsports based in Knoxville TN, which races 996s and now 997s in GT series races. Neither of them work there anymore (1 is racing in shifter cart series, the other is meandering around as a mechanic) but I had the chance to visit them in Knoxville.

    I was riding around their test circuit in a 993TT and then a 996 c2s. It was the first time I had really taken an RR on a track (have driven 996TTs and 996 c2s, but on residentials). My track experience was limited to FR and FFs and AWD (e36, e46 M3, Mini Cooper S, EVO VIII, WRX, A4 mod-spec).
    Besides the ferocious quality of the power (the 4WD car was sliding), I noticed a peculiar sense of the rear when trying to catch the apex properly. I was told to help my line by using the gas instead of the steering wheel.
    It was a truly envigorating experience, one of the reasons I'm shooting for an RR car (most notably a GT3) when my education begins to give me a budget

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    nberry said:... before pressing the Sport button (which enables overboost and activates stiffer suspension settings and a subtly altered throttle mapping) then the PASM button. ...



    This again proves how incompetent these guys are. By pushing the PASM button AFTER the Sport button, this guy switched back the suspension into comfort mode.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared it

    Weird. The guy is talking about wiping his sweaty plams on his jeans before he even starts the car and giving his passenger "nervous" looks and then makes comments that the CAR has nervous handling? What is this? His first time in a sports car?

    Does anyone get so nervous before staring their cars that their hands sweat ? Geeezzz.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    JimFlat6 said:
    1. The 911 "twitchy handling" in cornering occurs if you chicken out and lift off the gas, thereby lightening the torque load effect and transfering the weight of the car and upsetting its balance.

    2. ALL 911's respond to power when it comes to handling. No po

    How is that different from any car? Most reviewers have found the loose rear a problem with the 997TT.

    Also, AUTOCAR wrote that the exhaust of the 997TT "sounded utterly unmemorable and the car did not have the balance or fluidity of the gallardo".

    Hey I am sure it is a safer and quieter car than the gallardo and 430. But if safety and quietness is what I am after, I will buy a Volvo.

    Re: Evo drivers have a problem with the 997TT. The compared

    Quote:
    nberry said:... They need to remove the vacuum cleaner sound exhaust...



    Nick:

    You know what? I LIKE the Porsche vacuum cleaner sound! And you know more... I hate the overblown, loud dog, adolescent sound of a Ferrari at 30MPH doing 3000RPM!

    I may like the understated but traditional 911 sound because I am certain of myself and do not have a lack of self-esteem, as you continually demonstrate... Get a life!

     
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