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    Recurring Panamera Rumor

    I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     That makes abosultely no sense  the panamera has cost them an arm and a leg in development costs, it fits well into the VAG lineup, it seems like a successfull model, and its very important for Porsche's balance sheet. If anything I would think they will take advantage of the platform and come up with other variants, like a coupe version.


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    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    +1

    Plus, the Panamera interior look is influencing the interior look of the Cayenne and the future 991. If PAG wanted to axe, why copy it in other models?
     


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    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Wonderbar:

    I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?

     

    Yes, I heard this rumor too but I actually heard that this rumor has started when VW questioned the development cost and basis for the Panamera. As far as I heard, the next generation Panamera will not use a next development stage of the current basis but the current Audi A8 basis, like Bentley too and possible other VW brand models.

    So VW will probably axe the current platform the Panamera is based on but not the entire model line per se. Wouldn't make much sense.

    Of course you never can be 100% sure, especially since Piech made a comment to somebody very close to Porsche that he wants to go back to the Porsche "roots", whatever this means. 

    I have high hopes for the 991 right now... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    easy_rider911:

    +1

    Plus, the Panamera interior look is influencing the interior look of the Cayenne and the future 991. If PAG wanted to axe, why copy it in other models?
     

     

    The interior of the Cayenne and 911 needed an overhaul, it is actually more of a co-incidence that the Panamera got the new interior first. Smiley

    If VW considers the Panamera not to be profitable in Porsche's future, they would axe it in a second because the Panamera isn't really part of the Porsche tradition like the 911 for example and even the Cayenne. The Cayenne is a synonym for a sporty SUV, it will stay as long as it produces some money.

    I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    I heard the same Rc was saying. The Panamera platform will die as maintaining to sedan platforms is to expensive. It would make totally sense to go for one of them and as the A8 platform is the one most often used (Bentley, Audi, Phaeton, afaik Passat, A6??? + A8,...) this might be the platform wi the future. Don't believe that they keep a parallel universe - so we will see a lot of sync with the next generation

    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    RC:
    I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. Smiley


    If they're rumours, surely you can share them?  Smiley


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    GR:
    RC:
    I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. Smiley


    If they're rumours, surely you can share them?  Smiley

     

    The Cayman rumor is one I can't share because I heard it from a single source only and I can't be sure if it has been "planted" for obvious reasons or if it actually has some truth behind it. If I hear it from at least another source too, I will share it with you. Sorry.

    I can say only one thing: Porsche is going to have some interesting surprises for us, I'm not sure that the Cayman one is the most pleasant one, if true.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     Cayman the new entry level Porsche with a 4 cylinder engine? 


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Wonderbar:

    I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?

    Please read this press release and judge for yourself if you can give any credence to these rumours

    http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de&id=2010-09-10

    I suppose these rumours are spread by jealous competitors and their sales people along the lines of:

    "Buy this 7 series/CLS etc, a model that will be around forever, the Panamera is going to be discontinued soon because VW don't like it". Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    First, I don't trust these Porsche press releases when it comes to sales numbers. I know how dealers are almost "forced" to put cars on the street, not only at Porsche but other brands too. I have eyes, I live in Germany: even in Stuttgart, the home of Porsche, I haven't seen a SINGLE driving Panamera on the road. I was two days in Stuttgart. On the Autobahn to Rust and back to Munich, no Panamera either. In my home city, pretty large, there is one single Panamera S driving around, I recognize the license plate. My dealer also isn't very happy about how Panamera sales are going, never got a 11-13% rebate offer on a Porsche in my life...the Panamera is the first.

    Bottom line is: The Panamera may sell in the US or in Asia but in Europe, I highly doubt it.

    Jealous competitors ? You must be kidding: in Germany, I doubt that anybody can beat the BMW 7 series regarding performance, quality for the money and lease offers. Practically 90% of the wealthier people I know drive a BMW 7 series over here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    RC:

    First, I don't trust these Porsche press releases when it comes to sales numbers. I know how dealers are almost "forced" to put cars on the street, not only at Porsche but other brands too. I have eyes, I live in Germany: even in Stuttgart, the home of Porsche, I haven't seen a SINGLE driving Panamera on the road. I was two days in Stuttgart. On the Autobahn to Rust and back to Munich, no Panamera either. In my home city, pretty large, there is one single Panamera S driving around, I recognize the license plate. My dealer also isn't very happy about how Panamera sales are going, never got a 11-13% rebate offer on a Porsche in my life...the Panamera is the first.

    Bottom line is: The Panamera may sell in the US or in Asia but in Europe, I highly doubt it.

    Jealous competitors ? You must be kidding: in Germany, I doubt that anybody can beat the BMW 7 series regarding performance, quality for the money and lease offers. Practically 90% of the wealthier people I know drive a BMW 7 series over here.

    2.530 cars in Germany where millions of cars are on the road everyday is a drop in the ocean from the point of view of visibility. The same with the 206 cars in Munich. That's why you don't see them but still it is a lot of cars for Porsche.

    As regards the premium class competitors mainly BMW and Mercedes, the 22.518 Panamera sold worldwide are some thousand less from there own due to the obvious conquest sales, so it is logical that they don't like it. Therefore, the possibility of rival sales people spreading this funny rumour is very plausible, especially at a time when dealerships struggle to sell due to the economic downturn.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     Chritian,

    you better believe the numbers. The Panamera is actually selling very good, ask your dealer again and you will get 6% maximum discount.


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Porsche exceeded the target of 20 000 Panameras in the first year in spite of economic odds and rather negative opinions on design and size .  Cayenne story will repeat with Panamera and BMW 7 will loose more and more potential buyers , much more then MB S class.


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

    they are also selling very well in egypt, which is a very low volume market for porsche. however, with the cayenne and panamera these markets literally went throught the roof for porsche.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    intouch1:

    am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

    In Berlin 108 cars sold, so you must be in the right places Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Dubai 285  Smiley


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    ALDO:

     Chritian,

    you better believe the numbers. The Panamera is actually selling very good, ask your dealer again and you will get 6% maximum discount.

     

    Dealer offered me 11% (without even asking) three months ago, hinted that he might go up to 13% depending on deal (options, lease, cash, etc.).

    Right now, I wouldn't buy any Porsche without a 10% rebate/discount. Smiley

    Btw: when I inquired about a Panamera lease a couple of months ago, my lease company (not Porsche Financial) offered me for a 997 Turbo S in practically the same value as the Panamera a lease rate of almost 1000 (!) EUR less than for the Panamera Turbo, no down payment. Apparently they don't trust the residual/resale value of the Panamera after three years. Smiley

    6% on a Panamera Turbo at a german dealer is a rip-off.  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Misha011:

    Porsche exceeded the target of 20 000 Panameras in the first year in spite of economic odds and rather negative opinions on design and size .  Cayenne story will repeat with Panamera and BMW 7 will loose more and more potential buyers , much more then MB S class.

     

    I get the feeling that some of you are Porsche dealers ? Smiley  Smiley

    There is a difference between producing 20000 Panamera and actually selling 20000 Panamera to customers.

    Of course you can see lots of Panamera in Dubai, I saw a couple of Panamera during my 12 days stay in Miami this spring. These are different markets, never saw a Rolls Royce in Bavaria (but lots of Bentleys) but I saw tons of Rolls Royce in Miami.

    There is a huge difference between published numbers and the reality regarding selling actual cars to customers and/or how you sell them (rebates, special lease offers, etc.).

    For the current economic situation worldwide, the Panamera could be considered a success but maybe it also has to do with the fact that the new Cayenne wasn't available yet.

    What do I know ?! Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    intouch1:

    am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

    they are also selling very well in egypt, which is a very low volume market for porsche. however, with the cayenne and panamera these markets literally went throught the roof for porsche.

     

    You are aware that Berlin is the german capital and three times the size of Munich ? Smiley Also don't forget how many foreign business people live and work in Berlin, I also think that some cars have a "PZ" license plate (Berlin Porsche Zentrum). Smiley

    Berlin isn't much of a good example for Panamera sales, not even Munich is (and I barely saw one there over the past few months).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     I don't know much about Porsche sales numbers. 

    But yesterday I saw three Panamera in Munich (not in the Maximilianstrasse). In the showroom of the PZ Munich you can't see any new Panamera (two used cars) and only two new Cayennes (both Hybrid) but about a dozen 911 (90% black). 

    Don't know if this is an indicator.


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    In Frankfurt I see them all the time - every day. They are selling them
    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    As RC is saying I agree.  What the numbers show 20k Panamera is not the number of cars that individuals bought.  These numbers are the numbers that dealers have purchased from Porsche AG, not necessarily 20k Panameras being driven out in the streets.

    I even recall that my dealer in Houston was pissed at Porsche because for every 911order,  they had to buy so many Caymans and Cayennes and their lots were filled with the Caymans and the Cayennes.  And I can bet you this is the case with the Panamera too.  In Denver (where I live now) the closest dealer to me has so many Panamera that they don’t have enough room to display them all.


    --
    Happy Driving


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     Dealer has bought some Panamera but not more then 10% of all produced cars. These car are sold as used and the same amount are bought again and so on ...

    I live in a small city (140.000) and despite mine I see every week at least 2-3 other Panameras. I doubt that a Panamera buyer will buy a Cayenne. This overlapping buyer are not the majority.  Panameras started with good sales numbers after the Cayenne was released. The bad numbers where at the beginning of the year.

     


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

     And dont forget the Porsche own workers cars. Out of the 2500 in Germany at least 10-15% will be within there! They get it for very attractive company lease rates!

    @ALDO - are those PF number plates or worker cars you see every week?

    Anyway - speaking for myself, I'm still thinking about getting a Panamera. Would be the perfect fit as family Porsche. Seeing how often I used the Carrera this year and that it doesnt offer enough space for family or even for a Golf bag, the Panamera would be the right car do drive Porsche and enjoy Family and Hobbies!


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    Lars997:

     And dont forget the Porsche own workers cars. Out of the 2500 in Germany at least 10-15% will be within there! They get it for very attractive company lease rates!

    @ALDO - are those PF number plates or worker cars you see every week?

    Anyway - speaking for myself, I'm still thinking about getting a Panamera. Would be the perfect fit as family Porsche. Seeing how often I used the Carrera this year and that it doesnt offer enough space for family or even for a Golf bag, the Panamera would be the right car do drive Porsche and enjoy Family and Hobbies!

     NO "S-GO, ..." or "PF-PZ" plates - normal plates


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    I have even seen a Panamera in Nelspruit, South Africa!!


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    ALDO:

     Dealer has bought some Panamera but not more then 10% of all produced cars. These car are sold as used and the same amount are bought again and so on ...

    I live in a small city (140.000) and despite mine I see every week at least 2-3 other Panameras. I doubt that a Panamera buyer will buy a Cayenne. This overlapping buyer are not the majority.  Panameras started with good sales numbers after the Cayenne was released. The bad numbers where at the beginning of the year.

     

     

    Adnan...may I ask you how you got your car ? Wasn't it a very very attractive special lease offer from Porsche ? Smiley Smiley

    As to why there are more 911 in the showroom than Panamera: it is very simple, the 911 sells better. If the dealer puts two 170000 EUR Panamera Turbo into the showroom and can't move them for 3-6 months, this could be a disaster for him. The 911 is a different story, easier to move, easier to "exchange" with other dealers if necessary, etc.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    You can't lie with figures, unfortunately.

    22.518 cars produced, that's a fact. Even if you discount for demo-cars, stocks etc it's a lot of new Porsches on the roads and most important conquest sales from BMW and Mercedes.

    Now whether a number of these cars has been sold with a higher than normal discount, it's something that could be applicable to some markets. Nevertheless the rate of Gross Profit on Porsche cars is amongst the highest in the industry so there could be room for maneuver in the current financial climate.

    The 20.000 units target has been successfully met in Year 1. Let's see what happens in Year 2.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Recurring Panamera Rumor

    I try to respond a bit to all ... 
    There is no denying that these days I'm evaluating whether to buy a Panamera 4s. I felt great car excellent performance for a true 4-seater. How about you then you're part of? In a certain sense. Premise that come from 7 years of Cayenne S (beautiful). I have little more than 30 years, family with small children can not then buy a 997 Cusa lack of sufficient skills needs but I would like a car that is intermediate between a luxury sedan and a sport. the cost of the car I configured should be about € 130,000 should aggirasi discount on 10% just because I did not exchange (otherwise 5%).Personally results vedita how many cars are in the yards of dealers and etc.. take them with pliers is always a niche car (at least in Italy) is a car that has already been teased by the pure porscisti only because it forms similar / different from 997, a car is expensive and only discriminated by many why not have the ability to purchase and then € 130,000 self "that I want to put the configuration as I please and I do not adapt to the cars that are ready for delivery to all dealers of any brand, make budget? 
    In my opinion the Panamera can not be compared to a set S, A8 serie7 a beautiful car great prestige. These are old cars that whet the appetite for the absurd amount of options eletronica, wrapped unnecessary, would increase the costs of the cars and lost money at the time of resale. Not to mention the engine range much wider and much lower costs thus seems obvious that if they see so huge. Do not forget that cars are favored by business travelers with driver. Purchasing it you risk being mistaken for a driver who goes to get his squire turn. In my opinion it would be more compared to a Maserati Quattroporte car beautiful classy, great performance but defects super car (ferrari Style) with absurd costs. Also this car is not so popular around the city to deal with the fingers of one hand. 
    Then if the Porsche was wrong to create a platform exclusively for the Panamera is another matter. If these problems are not with me I would take the numbers but not square with those who developed the economic project, it would be crazy to develop a machine from scratch, put on the market and know that it is at a loss ... 
    Do not know if I was clear I hope you and I apologize if my English is not the best.
     
     
      
     
     

     
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