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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    I am not sure I agree that the car will hold its price.This GT3 is different in that it is only PDK. Many after driving it for a while may find the PDK too placid and not sufficiently engaging enough for their taste. 

    I anticipate by next summer several with low mileage will be available at less than MSRP. Meanwhile, I sit and twiddle my thumbs hoping for an earlier build date.Smiley

    Chief cheerleader vacillates on Porsche's PDK decision.

    Has nothing to do with my view of PDK. There are several stated buyers of the 991GT3 who owned prior model GT3's and would have preferred MT. They will give PDK a chance and some will opt out after short period of time. By next summer there will several on the market at less than MSRP because by then the wait will be six months or so for a new one.

     

    I'm not so sure Nick, the demand for the GT3 has increased substancially in the 991 precisely because of the PDK, now anyone can drive it, and on top of it, it is more everyday driveable than before, this expands its target population 20 fold..

    Porsche have done their numbers and for every customer that would not buy or will sell his 991GT3 because of the PDK, there will be 10 more lined up precisely because it has PDK. This and its relatively lower production numbers compared to a Carrera for example is why they have forgone the manual option altogether.

    So consider that for every one of those early buyers that may sell the 991GT3 because they got bored of the PDK, there will be many more waiting to get a 991GT3 new or second hand since there are so few allocations compared to demand, you are a perfect example. So it is not likely that second hand market will drop bellow MSRP any time soon, and especially in the US.


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    All supply and demand.  IMO those bored with PDK will be a minority of MT guys who decided to 'give it a shot'.  Based on what we've seen online, a lot of the traditionalists will sit this one out and pray for the MT to return in some form in a GT car.  I think that folks willing to part with $150k when not fully bought into the concept will be the minority.

    And, given the sheer scope of capabilities of the GT as a street car the market appeal is much wider.  Recall there are only a handful of reviews so far, none of them in depth.  Once comparo's are done against the GT3 competitors, it will get much wider attention by the sports car market and, for most, far too late to get on a list.  They will be forced to turn to cars.com.

    Nick I think your view of this car has been jaded by all the internet chatter.

    It will be a brilliant car and demand for used GT3's through 2014 will be healthy.  Remember, so few cars coming to the US by this time next year.  Locally, there will only be two delivered in my area with a population of 1.25 million folks and a wait list 2x longer than initial allocations.

    But like mostly all cars, they will depreciate.  I just do not think we'll see substantial depreciation in the used market during the first year due to such limited supply.


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos, your points are well taken. Much will depend on how many MT enthusiast bail on the car. Don't forget this car is not a 458 and all Porsche's depreciate some rather quickly. No sure about the GT3. There is also the other consideration as to whether it will be a decent DD. AP seemed to imply that though it is a better DD than its predecessors, it still was a raw car which even his wife complained about. The newcomers to GT3 may not find that appealing.

    Frayed (Nick?) to clarify, I still  believe the car will be spectacular. It probably is the right car for me at this time. I have no idea how I will feel a year from now. There will be other cars coming out to compete with the GT3. I just don't know which ones.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It might be worth seeing how those initial 991 GT3 allocations "shake out" after the new 991 GT3 RS is unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September... Smiley

    ...apparently there may be reason for "traditional" GT3 drivers to switch their orders over to the 991 GT3 RS! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    As an example I am on the RS list with my dealer. I do not give a damn about PDK as I like Ferraris F1 so do not mind a box like that.

    If I pull out it will be because of the lack of of a genuine race car engine and / or the weight. Those are more important to me than the transmission. 

    As a reference point the purest driving experience I crave for is the CGT. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry. Hang in there. I think when the first track reviews are published for the 991 GT3 in a couple of month time you will see demand for the 991 GT3 esculate. Even the hardcore track MT junkies wont be able to ignore the benefits of the new GT3 on the track. Just a hunch thats all. I also agree with previous poster that the 991 GT3RS will shake out alot of GT3 buyers if it is indeed seen as significantly better for the extra money so you may move up the list. If teh RS were to have a manual box as per Boxster Coupe GTS suggestion? then this may be accelerated. My belief is that it 99% will be PDK-S only as the configuration is now set and its in final testing. Infact from what I have seen it doesnt appear $30k+ more appealing than the GT3 but Im sure Porsche will suprise us with some tasty fruit on the RS.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The 997.1 RS was a warmed over 997.1 GT3 and the RS never made sense to me.  The .2's were perhaps a different story.  Will PAG do what they did before?

    Unknown, but AP did hint in his interview that there will be a notable gap in performance b/t the two IIRC.

     


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think AP hinted the RS would be more hardcore using more motorsports derived tech (composites, stripped interior etc). Im not sure how much room there is for a significant perfance gap between the two but as they seem to be holding back a bit with the GT3 in published figures (hp, ring time etc) Id say it will sub 7.20 the Ring...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    I think AP hinted the RS would be more hardcore using more motorsports derived tech (composites, stripped interior etc). Im not sure how much room there is for a significant perfance gap between the two but as they seem to be holding back a bit with the GT3 in published figures (hp, ring time etc) Id say it will sub 7.20 the Ring...

    Let's hope that this is true rather than the RS being a marketing exercise to extract higher margins.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:

    Let's hope that this is true rather than the RS being a marketing exercise to extract higher margins.

    I think the safe money is on "Both"  (more hardcore/faster and motivated by profit margin) Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    For now, I really don't have any where to go. Recently, I did look at the 12C spider but that is twice as much as the Gt3 and to get the car serviced would require a tow truck to drive the car each way a 100 miles. Also, it is not a car you want to drive at DE events.

    I will monitor the situation. If it appears certain that delivery will not occur until summer of 2014, more than likely I will cancel. As I posted earlier, Ferrari is on record stating that a client/customer should not have to wait one or more to get their car.

    I will explore other options including a used 991GT3.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    CGX car nut:

    Let's hope that this is true rather than the RS being a marketing exercise to extract higher margins.

    I think the safe money is on "Both"  (more hardcore/faster and motivated by profit margin) Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    Paint schemes not withstanding.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    And lots of stickers


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos from Spain:
    I'm not so sure Nick, the demand for the GT3 has increased substancially in the 991 precisely because of the PDK, now anyone can drive it, and on top of it, it is more everyday driveable than before, this expands its target population 20 fold..

    Porsche have done their numbers and for every customer that would not buy or will sell his 991GT3 because of the PDK, there will be 10 more lined up precisely because it has PDK. This and its relatively lower production numbers compared to a Carrera for example is why they have forgone the manual option altogether.

    So consider that for every one of those early buyers that may sell the 991GT3 because they got bored of the PDK, there will be many more waiting to get a 991GT3 new or second hand since there are so few allocations compared to demand, you are a perfect example. So it is not likely that second hand market will drop bellow MSRP any time soon, and especially in the US.

    Smiley I fully agree, Carlos.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    I think AP hinted the RS would be more hardcore using more motorsports derived tech (composites, stripped interior etc). Im not sure how much room there is for a significant perfance gap between the two but as they seem to be holding back a bit with the GT3 in published figures (hp, ring time etc) Id say it will sub 7.20 the Ring...

    Don't expect wonders but a much higher price tag. Smiley

    The GT3 RS will rock though, it should be the perfect car for those who want a more hardcore GT3. Still...no manual though. Smiley There have been rumors of a manual option for the GT3 RS but I hope Porsche isn't changing their PDK strategy. Also, it seems that PDK will be standard on the other 911 models too at some point because of environmental requirements.

    Maybe Porsche should consider some sort of Sportomatic-type PDK, a manual without a clutch, based on the PDK. This could somehow compensate for the lack of a real manual.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    macca993:

    I think AP hinted the RS would be more hardcore using more motorsports derived tech (composites, stripped interior etc). Im not sure how much room there is for a significant perfance gap between the two but as they seem to be holding back a bit with the GT3 in published figures (hp, ring time etc) Id say it will sub 7.20 the Ring...

    Don't expect wonders but a much higher price tag. Smiley

    The GT3 RS will rock though, it should be the perfect car for those who want a more hardcore GT3. Still...no manual though. Smiley There have been rumors of a manual option for the GT3 RS but I hope Porsche isn't changing their PDK strategy. Also, it seems that PDK will be standard on the other 911 models too at some point because of environmental requirements.

    Maybe Porsche should consider some sort of Sportomatic-type PDK, a manual without a clutch, based on the PDK. This could somehow compensate for the lack of a real manual.

    LOL! PDK-S (for slow). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

     Ferrari is on record stating that a client/customer should not have to wait one or more to get their car.

     

    They just say this since they are having problems in selling their cars Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Right. No chance to get a F12 or 458 spider in less than 18 months right now. The FF however has immediate availability and even big MSRP discounts or aggressive close end lease. First batch of FF is already trading more than $100k below MSRP.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Does Porsche still release order guides in August?  Although I'm #2 on the dealer list they have no word yet on when the order can be placed but they assume August or September.  Does this seem reasonable?


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    DaveC:

    Does Porsche still release order guides in August?  Although I'm #2 on the dealer list they have no word yet on when the order can be placed but they assume August or September.  Does this seem reasonable?

    Has your dealer received his allocations? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     
    nberry:
    DaveC:

    Does Porsche still release order guides in August?  Although I'm #2 on the dealer list they have no word yet on when the order can be placed but they assume August or September.  Does this seem reasonable?

    Has your dealer received his allocations? 

     Yes, I was not told how many cars they will get, but I was told that another fellow and I have cash deposits and are 1 and 2 respectively on their allocations.  I was also  told that I would receive the car in late December or early January.  They cannot order cars at this time. I was curious about when the order guides would be available as well as PTS which I am considering.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    November builds need to be in by July 24th. December by late August. PTS may delay your build date.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SciFrog:

    Right. No chance to get a F12 or 458 spider in less than 18 months right now. The FF however has immediate availability and even big MSRP discounts or aggressive close end lease. First batch of FF is already trading more than $100k below MSRP.

     Regular clients of Ferrari do not wait 12-18 months for their cars. The GT3 will be my fifth Porsche in less than 10 years and yet I am made to wait a year or more like I just walked in off the street. What I find interesting is Porsche does have a policy of discriminating in favor of certain customers (like those that are buying 918's). 

    I guess buying five new Porsche's in less than a decade gets you nothing from Porsche. This is not a good business practice to engender brand loyalty.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I would totally agree with that ! Dealers here in Switzerland are somewhat contorted because they still have such a huge crowd ordering from them that a true customer experience or having bought 5 cars just makes them shrug their shoulders..... - for my case I even had to tell them that my car has a recall......tks to RT mail


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BjoernB. Where in Switzerland do you live?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

     Regular clients of Ferrari do not wait 12-18 months for their cars. The GT3 will be my fifth Porsche in less than 10 years and yet I am made to wait a year or more like I just walked in off the street. What I find interesting is Porsche does have a policy of discriminating in favor of certain customers (like those that are buying 918's). 

    I guess buying five new Porsche's in less than a decade gets you nothing from Porsche. This is not a good business practice to engender brand loyalty.Smiley

    Nick, the dealer always has "possibilities" and if you are a good customer, maybe you should contact PCNA directly, maybe they have a saying too regarding allocations. Don't give up, be nice (don't beg but ask for help) and maybe... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    BjoernB. Where in Switzerland do you live?

     Kanton SZ 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Suzy is from Kanton too! Im heading to Zurich late November to pick up my 991 GT3. May see you there!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Christian, thanks for the tip. I haven't given up but am relaistic. My salesperson who has 17 years with the dealership is staying on top of the situation. He is aware I may bolt.


     
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