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    How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    ...without even trying hard.

    Here's my story:

    I joined my wife and one of her female friends for a safety driving training course. This course is actually for beginners and it involves mostly "shocking" young people how a car reacts in extreme situations, it isn't a primary driving learning/training course. To be able to do that, 90% of the driving is done on highly slippery (winter condition) pavement, comparable to snowy/icey streets.

    The funniest thing exercise is actually when you drive and some sort of hydraulic plate moves your rear to make you loose control of the car.

    Well, when we started each exercise, the trainer told us a certain speed to use. The other cars were mostly 60-125 HP cars, nothing special. Only me, my wife in her Boxster S and her female friend in her 993 Carrera 4 had sportscars.

    So I tried to do the same exercises at the mandatory speed (usually 30-45 kph) and it was impossible. The car lost control, it was impossible to gain control back.
    Funny: when driving on the slippery surface, the trainer asked me through the walkie talkie why I'm not using the steering wheel while braking. He couldn't see me. Well: I was doing 90* turns with the steering wheel but my Turbo was still going straight. No wonder, the tires had no grip at all and I was slipping all along. Even the ABS system didn't work...simply because there was ZERO grip.

    Each exercise was a complete desaster for me...unless I reduced speed by around 5 kph only! This was always the speed I was able to keep control of the car but the smaller cars were sometimes faster.

    When we went for a lunch brake to the restaurant inside the area, since my wife asked me what is going on (she knows how I drive), I told her that my tires suck completely for such a slippery surface. One of the young people heard that and with a pretty ironic tone in his voice he asked me "what have tires to do with that?". I explained to him the meaning of different tire mixtures and sizes/profiles and you know what this guy says to me? "This is BS, grandpa". I was ready to knock him down, my wife already saw my red face.

    After the lunch, we had a discussion with the trainer. She (of course ) asked me what I learned from this training. I told her that I learned not to be that fast and that I would never ever drive that fast in my car on snow/ice with summer tires. It happens again, some of the younger people look at me like I was telling them I just won the Nobel Prize. I continued to explain that the speeds used during the training are too high and that I would NEVER drive that fast on snow/ice with summer tires. This is why I always succeeded the exercises (a lot of people didn't, incl. my wife and her friend but my wife still wasn't bad at all) but at around 5 kph slowlier. The trainer told me to imagine that I would encounter such a situation in my car. Again I told her that this ain't possible because I wouldn't drive with a 997 Turbo and summer tires on a snowy/icey road. NEVER. She gave up.

    Bottom line: this training was fun and it showed that even the best technology can't beat physics, especially if the tires don't have a bit of grip anymore. This is where the PTM/AWD/PSM can't save you.
    However, I also learned that most people don't have a clue about the 911 Turbo and even worse, it's capabilities on dry or even "normal" wet pavement.

    Yes, I think I made myself an "ass" during the training but simply because I took the wrong car with me and didn't keep my mouth shut.

    One training I did best, by far: braking on dry pavement. The others did (incl. reaction time) 15-30 m, I did 10-12 m. Viva PCCB and bye bye safety driving trainings.
    Next time, I take my wife to a sportscar driving ed event.

    And maybe I have also some advise for you guys now: forget about Cup tires for street usage. Even the standard tires can't cope with (VERY) slippery pavement, think about the problems you would encounter with Cup tires. Not worth it.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    hhihiihi

    it would be great to be a fly to see your face when they teach you to turn the steering wheels


    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Sounds like a very nice week-end

    In particular this one here:


    Quote:
    RC said:
    I explained to him the meaning of different tire mixtures and sizes/profiles and you know what this guy says to me? "This is BS, grandpa"




    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Come on grandpa!

    Very funny story RC... I like the part where the other students look at you "like you won the Nobel prize"!

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    BTW: Now you see why LSD is so important

    Gives you better control of the car

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    BTW: Now you see why LSD is so important

    Gives you better control of the car



    Not funny... The secret "weapon" would have been: winter tires. Next time I'm gonna kick a.. .

    To be serious: I took the wrong car with me. A 60 HP VW Polo was faster than me. I can highly recommend such a "basic" training for those who want to learn how the tires can throw a Porsche back to the stoneage. Like I said: 5 kph, not more, make the difference. Even if the whole event was pretty much useless for me because I would NEVER drive THAT fast over such a slippery surface, it was pretty interesting to see again that physics can't be beaten, not even by the best electronic systems.

    Btw: LSD would have been USELESS.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    BTW: Now you see why LSD is so important

    Gives you better control of the car



    Careful, Markus! He said he almost struck that guy down. I doubt he'd restrain himself twice (I know I couldn't) .

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Are you sure it didn't happen like this:

    Quote:
    What RC really said:
    I explained to him why tiptronic was better than manual and you know what this guy says to me? "This is BS, grandpa"




    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Are you sure it didn't happen like this:

    Quote:
    What RC really said:
    I explained to him why tiptronic was better than manual and you know what this guy says to me? "This is BS, grandpa"







    Have you driven a 997 Turbo Tip lately?! The big boys drive, the other boys talk.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Would you like one of these stickers for the driver's door of your turbo?
    /uploads/247748-G41FHsm.gif

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    "This is BS, grandpa".



    RC, is that you --->



    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    and this one show better not to drive ur sportcar in the rain !! hahah even the drift king!!

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7305951965785199615&q=best+motoring

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Would you like one of these stickers for the driver's door of your turbo?



    No thanks, I already have this one on my car.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    "This is BS, grandpa".



    RC, is that you --->





    No, I'm not the invisible man.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Would you like one of these stickers for the driver's door of your turbo?



    No thanks, I already have this one on my car.



    Perhaps this might be more appropriate, then


    /uploads/247845-P161FHsm.gif

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    A little note regarding the "slippery surface" because apparently some people don't pay attention when they read my post (I got PMs and mails regarding this) : it was as slippery as driving on a street covered with snow and ice. NOT like a "simple" wet street.

    For those in California and Florida who may not know what snow and ice is : imagine a completely wet street and add oil to it. Voila...slippery.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Black Ice !!!

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Here's a little video showing what I did (of course in a 997 Turbo, not this car):

    http://www.smart-club.de/smart-photos/treffen/fst-koblenz-030913/vids/Schleuderplatte_Clio.mpg

    And imagine...from five tries, I was able to catch the car without breaking out or loosing control TWO times, each time when I reduced speed from the "mandatory" 40 kph to 35 kph. If you think this is a piece of cake, try it yourself. A little reminder: the surface is as slippery as snow/ice.
    And of coure this "plate" which "moves" your rear to make you loose control works to both directions, left and right. You don't know before the direction in which the car is going to break out.

    Here is also a little picture showing the surface from a certain angle where you can see how slippery it actually is.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    I've done similar at the Hungaroring where they have a similar set up. It is very tough. Quite different than just doing figure 8s on a skidpad. The sudden lifting plate with an unknown side and timing makes it particularly difficult to respond to for even trained skid artists!

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    And here is the "group of 3" Porsche (my wife, me and her female friend).

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    RC, thanks for the heads up. What summer tires do you have on the TT. Mine is due Jan-Feb, snow & rain here in east USA

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    drbf said:
    RC, thanks for the heads up. What summer tires do you have on the TT. Mine is due Jan-Feb, snow & rain here in east USA



    I have the Michelin Pilot Sport on my 997 Turbo. Of course I'm getting winter wheels for my car (19'', 235s front and 295s rear, OEM) but when I saw the price tag for a winter wheel set for the first time, I almost swallowed my car keys. VERY expensive.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Those young guys can call you gramps all they want, but you had the baddest car on the plannet with you. Your TT looks sweet in that picture!!!

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    The guy was in all probability just teasing. You have a 997TT and years of experience and he drives what? A Yugo 65 with sport suspension?
    Next time, just don't go to such events. Such imbecilles just don't get it. Grandpa .

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    I still don't get it. If your tires were Pirelli tires might it have been a non issue then? Isn't Michelin tires poor performing in wet conditions? Wet conditions in the summer time simulates wet conditions in the summer time. Didn't you say in previous posts that winter tires have and advantage because of their grip in the cold weather where summer tires lose their grip below a certain temperature? Wet conditions can occur both in the summer and the winter.

    I have always stayed away from Michelin tires because of my experience in wet conditions, they always were poor performers compared to other makes of tires.

    I remember my first Porsche had Michelin tires. Everytime it rained in sunny Cali, it was the equivalent to driving on ice. Switched over to Dunlop and the problem was solved.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    I still don't get it. If your tires were Pirelli tires might it have been a non issue then? Isn't Michelin tires poor performing in wet conditions? Wet conditions in the summer time simulates wet conditions in the summer time. Didn't you say in previous posts that winter tires have and advantage because of their grip in the cold weather where summer tires lose their grip below a certain temperature? Wet conditions can occur both in the summer and the winter.

    I have always stayed away from Michelin tires because of my experience in wet conditions, they always were poor performers compared to other makes of tires.

    I remember my first Porsche had Michelin tires. Everytime it rained in sunny Cali, it was the equivalent to driving on ice. Switched over to Dunlop and the problem was solved.



    They actually simulate driving on ice, despite it being 30 degrees centigrade outside. Had it only been wet, he would've had no problems at all.

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    I'm a bit confused as well, I thought the main diff with winter tires was the teperature range. I don't think the extra deep profile would have benifits with rain.

    Meaning if you ever hit an oil patch, or maybe asfalt that's wet after a verry long dry period, it's over and out..

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    cool story grandpa...can you imagine the little boy telling to his friend " there was a guy in the training with us that has a new 997tt and dont know how to handle the car!!"

    Re: How to make an ass out of yourself in a 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    Hookipa said:
    I'm a bit confused as well, I thought the main diff with winter tires was the teperature range. I don't think the extra deep profile would have benifits with rain.

    Meaning if you ever hit an oil patch, or maybe asfalt that's wet after a verry long dry period, it's over and out..



    Hello Hookipa,

    hmmm some sort of, but this is not the point! Think of Aquaplaning! If there is no profile on the tire, your car is surfing on the waterfilm with absolute no possibility to steer your car.

    Therefor i agree with RC: Never use Cup Wheels on public roads! Especially when it is wet and slippery

    Greets &

    Sin

     
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