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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Inspirine:

    "The R costs the same as the RS and is not badly outclassed by it (just has different priorities)."

    That is the point. The original "R" was a race car, stripped like crazy to save weight, and engaged in various racing activity. That one was certainly quicker than stock car. 

    The new "R" is nowhere near  a racing car, and that's a shame and a blame for Porsche. Different priorities...for snob client that don't race or track their cars.  And sounds like there are way too many out there, but that's a different story.

    The R is what the GTS should be.

    Don't you think Porsche knows that? If people like me are dumb enough to go for a Carrera S with Powerkit and accept it as a GTS, no wonder Porsche gets away with this. I love my GTS but I also know that Porsche could have done much better. Why should they though? Using the Carrera S Powerkit tech and keeping everything else basically the same raised their gain margin. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The R fills a great spot that has nothing to do with the GTS's spot, and it's absolutely fantastic that a maker will make such a car in modern times, were the sheer sensory driving experience is placed ahead of minimal track lap times differences and paper figures. As a sportscar fan I was so happy to see my favorite manufacturer make such a car as it shows that they haven't lost that spirit, and not become another emotionless sportscar manufacturer only worried about  exterior image or paper figures. Where Porsche made the mistake is in making it a limited production and playing that game with it.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Carlos from Spain:

    The R fills a great spot that has nothing to do with the GTS's spot, and it's absolutely fantastic that a maker will make such a car in modern times, were the sheer sensory driving experience is placed ahead of minimal track lap times differences and paper figures. As a sportscar fan I was so happy to see my favorite manufacturer make such a car as it shows that they haven't lost that spirit, and not become another emotionless sportscar manufacturer only worried about  exterior image or paper figures. Where Porsche made the mistake is in making it a limited production and playing that game with it.

    I disagree a little bit: Porsche should have used the 911 R tech/specs for their GTS models.

    Since we all know that Porsche is also about high profit and high gain margins, at least they could have made the 911 R a "regular" model in their model line, without any limitation in production, this is something I agree with you on.

    Well, I am waiting for Porsche's 960 now...if they disappoint again, I'm outSmiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    If the R remains a garage queen then the operating cost issues are irrelevant.  However, what keeps the R separate from a GTS in my mind is the carbon fiber body components.  Once minor body repairs become a tens of thousands of dollars cost to repair item then the car moves into another league of ownership not comparable to a sheet metal S or GTS. Making the car lighter can also make the wallet lighter.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    The R fills a great spot that has nothing to do with the GTS's spot, and it's absolutely fantastic that a maker will make such a car in modern times, were the sheer sensory driving experience is placed ahead of minimal track lap times differences and paper figures. As a sportscar fan I was so happy to see my favorite manufacturer make such a car as it shows that they haven't lost that spirit, and not become another emotionless sportscar manufacturer only worried about  exterior image or paper figures. Where Porsche made the mistake is in making it a limited production and playing that game with it.

    I disagree a little bit: Porsche should have used the 911 R tech/specs for their GTS models.

    Since we all know that Porsche is also about high profit and high gain margins, at least they could have made the 911 R a "regular" model in their model line, without any limitation in production, this is something I agree with you on.

    But one does not substitute the other, if for example the GTS would have the engine, tranny, body etc of the 991R, I would of not bought the GTS, it would not have been practical for the use I give it. Next week I'm taking it in for the 30k maintenance Smiley

    Instead it would all have been OK if they would not have gone the limited production and overinflated pricetag, then those that wanted the 991R tech/specs wound of been able to get them in the form of the 991R and those that wanted the current GTS spec would of gotten them too in the form of the GTS, and everybody is happy Smiley Furthermore it would of also avoided the irony of most of the 991R units, supposedly Porsche's ultimate driver's car, ending up as garage queens.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Making the 911 R a limited edition was definitely a mistake and drove some customers away from Porsche after the various issues with the "selection" system.

    There is still time for a GT3 without rear wing (option), so maybe this is going to be the "next" 911 R but the latest rumors actually indicate that Porsche might walk away from this idea for various marketing reasons.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Carlos from Spain:
    Furthermore it would of also avoided the irony of most of the 991R units, supposedly Porsche's ultimate driver's car, ending up as garage queens.

    Or in the hands of secondary sellers which is where a whole host of them are right now SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Look at the shameful laptime of the Aston Martin GT8 for the price it is marketed (including all must have options, 300k Euro on European Mainland). That is pure "driver car"! I like when Porsche or Aston Martin can't do any better than calling their car driver car when they are only slow cars. Funny enough, as a driver, I usually prefer to drive a quick car than a slow car. Tomorrow I will drive GT3 RS versus a 488 GTB back to back. Don't care about so called "driver cars". 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Inspirine:

    Look at the shameful laptime of the Aston Martin GT8 for the price it is marketed (including all must have options, 300k Euro on European Mainland). That is pure "driver car"! I like when Porsche or Aston Martin can't do any better than calling their car driver car when they are only slow cars. Funny enough, as a driver, I usually prefer to drive a quick car than a slow car. Tomorrow I will drive GT3 RS versus a 488 GTB back to back. Don't care about so called "driver cars". 

    I don't think you can compare the GT3 RS to the 488 GTB. Two different beasts. As a weekend toy and Autobahn car, I would probably choose the 488, also because of that fantastic looking interior. The GT3 RS is the better weekend fun toy and track car though in my opinion. Depends on what you're looking for. In speed limited countries, both can be tremendous fun but I have become addicted to n/a engines, so...even if the Ferrari 488 has barely a turbo lag.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Inspirine:

    Look at the shameful laptime of the Aston Martin GT8 for the price it is marketed (including all must have options, 300k Euro on European Mainland). That is pure "driver car"! I like when Porsche or Aston Martin can't do any better than calling their car driver car when they are only slow cars. Funny enough, as a driver, I usually prefer to drive a quick car than a slow car. Tomorrow I will drive GT3 RS versus a 488 GTB back to back. Don't care about so called "driver cars". 

    laptimes and 0-60 has no value in regular street driving.

    Inspirine - maybe you can tell us more about yourself.  What cars you have now?  what have you had before?

    When I was young, I almost only looked at 0-60 times on car reviews.  I think I can remember most of them by heart.

    Over the years, after owning, driving and tracking many cars, I appreciate more about the overall driving feel that my cars can offer me, rather than its straight line acceleration.

    Honestly, for city or even spirited driving, my old club coupe with just 381hp can keep up with any exotic cars in front of me no matter how they drive.

     


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Inspirine:

    I like when Porsche or Aston Martin can't do any better than calling their car driver car when they are only slow cars. Funny enough, as a driver, I usually prefer to drive a quick car than a slow car.

    I disagree.  There are plenty of fast cars that aren't fun to drive.  It's easy to be sucked into the trap of specs - then you have to change cars in a year when the next faster car is released...


    --

     

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I stopped looking for fast cars! I really don't care as long as 0-100 km/h is below 4.5s. My 997.2 S was "very slow" but I loved it. My 991 GTS is "slow" but gives me 100x more fun than any Tesla will ever do ;). On a racetrack it's another discussion...I don't live in a racetrack unfortunately 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    It's really no different on a racetrack for me - the challenge and enjoyment of mastering a car at the limit is lasting fun - just setting a fast lap in a capable but numb car becomes boring quickly...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    my previous 996CS was fast,very fast, but it was just in its territory, nobody can drive it in street. still my 964 or 993 are slower than honda accord,but do I miss the fun? or,do i miss lots of thumbs up everywhere?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Inspirine - maybe you can tell us more about yourself.  What cars you have now?  what have you had before?

    I was happy to owned 3 Porsches and 1 Mercedes AMG, I still own 2 out of these 4.

    The SLS is my "driver car", Slow but emotional. 

    I had a 996 GT3 RS that I miss.

    I had a GT4 that I miss.

    I have a 991 GT3 RS that I enjoy.

    With regards to 488 / GT3 RS comparison back to back on Friday, road and track, let me tell you I enjoyed the Ferrari but I am not ready for a switch. Yet. Even if torque is very very impressive. As well as the usuability including on wet! However to comfy, to easy to handle, lack of drama (but the power). The lack of drama resides in that the maximum torque is around 3 to 4k rev, so you basically stay below 5k to enjoy the power, but doing so you are lacking of crazy high rev noise that you tent to enjoy in NA Ferrari/Porsche engine. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    When I mean fast, I mean fast on track not 0 to 100.

    Around that one, because of my limited driver skills, I have to admit my track time were better in the 488 than in the GT3 RS. Why? The 488 is just better balanced and I drove it with more confidence. At the end of the day, driver skills is more important than the raw performance of the car!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Last point but not least, the treat by Ferrari sales folk was better and less arrogant than usual treat from Porsche France folks. Let see what is coming next. I mean 488 Speciale or whatever they call it versus GT2 RS. Or P14 / 570 LT. 



    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    luckly you can buy something that is 98% of this car soon - maybe even better in some parts broken heart


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    First time I would like to see a wingless GT3 ........


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    to unstable indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    A beautiful R seen this Saturday in Geneva...

     


    --

    Nicolas
    2016 991 Carrera 4 GTS PDK


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Sure it is beautiful, but the R really needs the stripes and decals. Otherwise it is not very special. And this is coming from someone who generally don't like decals...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Lovely low key spec. GT silver still does it for me after so many years!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Nice photos!

    Agree a bit with Lukas, to me it looks like an GT3 that lost its wing.

    But if it was my car I could live with that :-)

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Lukas:

    Sure it is beautiful, but the R really needs the stripes and decals. Otherwise it is not very special. And this is coming from someone who generally don't like decals...

    I actually prefer the low key aspect of this spec. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    That's not even an R in my book. Dull color and no stripe...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The other day I saw a near by neighbor driving  one of his 2 ( he's got two ) , exactly the same one as above . From a distance I could not tell it from a regular Carrera . It was only the sound who gave it away . So, yes, this car is so understated that in traffic , or from a distance , you can't tell from a Carrera GTS . 

    I like the car, but as to it's look, I alway feel that it s a GT3 that had his wing broken ......


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Enmanuel:
    Lukas:

    Sure it is beautiful, but the R really needs the stripes and decals. Otherwise it is not very special. And this is coming from someone who generally don't like decals...

    I actually prefer the low key aspect of this spec. 

    +1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Take a standard 4s, add the bumper and rims... voilà! It just misses the exclusivity


     
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