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    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    Whoopsy:
    MMD:

    Might have been nicer if they lost the stuffed-cheek golfballs.   Smiley

    Haha, here we go again, so you forgot about the wing and all the slots now?  But I agreed with you, that aweful fog light is just quite forgetable.

      LOL. Yup..., sorry..., I've got nothing else to do! Plus: I'm very flexible: I can be bothered by anything! 

    Smiley


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MMD:

    Might have been nicer if they lost the stuffed-cheek golfballs.   Smiley

    no more stuffed-cheek golfballs.jpg

     

    +1 Those weird fog lights look out of space from the first day Smiley
     

     


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    I hoped they would go too; are they unchanged from the first version, they seem a little less bulbous. The fonrt of the car is a mess though. And I hate the steering wheel.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MarkN:

     And I hate the steering wheel.

     Yeah..., I don't know WHAT's going on there either. The new one (bottom) seems better, more Porsche-ish (conservative) looking.  Seeing them compared in person would help. Why oh why do things have to get soooo, I dunno..., "fancy?" Black would be better, but you still have that "volcano grey" to contend with. "Polished" metal is better.

    steering wheel PDK button vs paddles.jpg


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MMD:

    Might have been nicer if they lost the stuffed-cheek golfballs.   Smiley

    no more stuffed-cheek golfballs.jpg

     

    MMD, welcome back and I have to agree with you on this one. Much nicer without the golf balls. Smiley

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    Gregg and Reginos, you are BOTH right!

    I have no doubt testing for reliability and making sure that the PDK could handle the torque have caused the delayed introduction of PDK. I am sure PAG has been watching the fiasco of the GT-R double clutch gearbox with weary eyes.
    I have also seen the phrases "not fitting the GT1 engine" and "motosports homologation" in discussions as to why it is not seen in the GT3. Other reason is the added weight, I think.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    pride355:
    Wonderbar:

    Would someone explain why paddles should be on the column, not the wheel? Seems like you want them on the wheel so you can shift as you turn if necessary.  What am I missing here?  Thanks in advance.


    I had owned 2 E46 M3s with SMGII gearbox and now an Audi TTS with DSG box.

    They all have the paddles on the steering wheel. I find it easier to use when the paddles are on the steering wheel. they are closer to you and if you hold the steerin wheel on the right position, they are always there.

    And if you exit a slow corner or make a U turn, you can always use the gear stick to upsift or down.

    On the other hand, I drove a F430 with F1 tranny on a race circuit, and find it little hard to down shift before a corner on agressive braking, because the paddles are further away from your fingers. Therefore I had to relocate the downshift paddle before the corner. It is all getting used to and as long as there are paddles instead of puddles, there is no problem where they are because you get used to both.

    However, having paddles on the steering wheel and gear level give you more oppurtunaty for different occasions. 

     

    Good post and reasonable argument for the moving paddles. I still think Ferrari's fixed paddles are better but will give this design the benefits of the doubt for now. Smiley

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MMD:
    MarkN:

     And I hate the steering wheel.

     Yeah..., I don't know WHAT's going on there either. The new one (bottom) seems better, more Porsche-ish (conservative) looking.  Seeing them compared in person would help. Why oh why do things have to get soooo, I dunno..., "fancy?" Black would be better, but you still have that "volcano grey" to contend with. "Polished" metal is better.

     


    Yes, it's almost as if they're saying, "yes, you can have your paddles but as a punishment for rocking the boat, you have to take this steering wheel".  I'm not sure this finish is anywhere else in the car and with the 6 "themes" - black, leather, alcantata, wood, carbon, alu - I can't see it working with any of them. Still at least it will encourage the after-market boys to come out with something better.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MarkN:
    MMD:
    MarkN:

     And I hate the steering wheel.

     Yeah..., I don't know WHAT's going on there either. The new one (bottom) seems better, more Porsche-ish (conservative) looking.  Seeing them compared in person would help. Why oh why do things have to get soooo, I dunno..., "fancy?" Black would be better, but you still have that "volcano grey" to contend with. "Polished" metal is better.

     


    Yes, it's almost as if they're saying, "yes, you can have your paddles but as a punishment for rocking the boat, you have to take this steering wheel".  I'm not sure this finish is anywhere else in the car and with the 6 "themes" - black, leather, alcantata, wood, carbon, alu - I can't see it working with any of them. Still at least it will encourage the after-market boys to come out with something better.

    For my taste the new sports steering wheel looks very nice. Pity you can't have multi-function with paddles.

    The typical PDK wheel is spoiled IMO by the volcano grey plastic. The same wheel on the Panamera as in the picture below, is all in one colour and much better looking.

    Why do Porsche have to make trim options so complicated?1249884375118New Image.JPG


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    It looks so much better withouth the fog lights, really can´t understand why they keep this ugly feature on 997.2 Smiley

    Nice photoshop work MMD Smiley

     

    J.Seven


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Dual-Clutch Transmissions: "Lucky Number Seven"

    (1-Sep-2008, Ward's AutoWorld)

    Getrag GMBH & CIE KG Becomes the latest high-profile player in the dual-clutch-transmission segment as BMW AG and Ferrari Automobiles SpA rush to incorporate the German supplier's new drivetrain technology in their newest performance cars.

    Many praise-worthy headlines are to be expected of these new transmission systems, which deliver more than ever the performance benefits of a sequential-manual gearshift with the smoothness of a conventional torque-converter automatic.

    Rushed is the wrong word to describe the similar DCT system Porsche AG developed with ZF Friedrichshafen AG for the '09 911. The German auto maker originally planned to launch the 7-speed PDK (Porsche-Doppelkupplung) gearbox with the release of the current 997-edition model, but “development issues” delayed the program by at least three years.

    However, rushed correctly applies to Getrag's 36-month development for its two all-new DCT gearboxes, which debut in the BMW M3 this fall and upcoming '09 Ferrari California.

    The new 7-speed transmissions — 7DCI600 for the M3 and 7DCL750 for the California — were developed in parallel, but according to Stephan Rinderknecht, Getrag's head of research and development, “They were independent programs; there are no common parts.”

    To broaden the 7DCI600's appeal, Getrag offers the gearbox in two basic forms, both capable of accepting up to 443 lb-ft (600 Nm) of torque.

    For the M3, the high-speed version offers a ratio spread (between first and seventh gears) of 4.8, with a direct top gear that permits 9,000 rpm.

    The alternative variant (yet to be seen on a production car), in which fifth gear is direct and sixth and seventh are overdrive gears, offers a planned ratio spread of 6.7, although this could stretch to “beyond 7.0.”

    Because the overdrive ratios would increase prop-shaft speeds to well over 10,000 rpm, this version is limited to engine speeds of 7,500 rpm.

    “The main focus in the development was a superb level of economy,” Rinderknecht says.

    In the M3, the high-speed DCT delivers a 5% fuel-economy improvement over a 6-speed automatic. However, Rinderknecht claims the wide-ratio gearbox carries at least a 10% advantage.

    “We also wanted to offer flexibility between comfort and sporting (gear) shifting and to allow short shifting in low-speed driving, so that it is capable of performing at virtually the (same) level as an automatic gearbox.”

    Still, he admits software upgrades to further improve low-speed smoothness already are in the pipeline.

    The M3 is just the first of many high-performance, front-engine/rear-drive cars to use the new 7DCI600 transmission, called M-DCT by BMW.

    Getrag's factory, 31 miles (50 km) north of Stuttgart, which produces the new gearbox, is set up to allow a “flexible concept on volumes,” Rinderknecht says, noting the factory architecture allows for a production of 100,000 units per year.

    Because the M3 only is expected to absorb about 15,000 units annually, and the addition of a DCT option for certain '09 3-Series models won't take up the remaining capacty, that leaves plenty of room for other programs.

    However, the BMW M5 and M6, which currently are saddled with the oft-criticized single-clutch SMG automated manual, will have to wait until their next iterations to sport a DCT, despite the new gearbox's ability to cope with the 5.0L V-10's 384 lb-ft (520 Nm) of torque.

    Getrag's dual-clutch transaxle unit for the Ferrari California is more robust than the BMW version and capable of absorbing 553 lb-ft (750 Nm) of torque. This is far beyond the maximum torque of Ferrari's latest V-8 powertrain, which is expected to produce in the California slightly more than the F430's 343 lb-ft (465 Nm).

    Getrag-7DCL750.jpg

    Image: Getrag 7DCL750 (Ferrari California DCT)

    It, too, is capable of extreme revs — 9,000-plus rpm, which is well above the 7,500-rpm maximum permitted by even the best conventional automatic — yet manages a range of ratio spreads from 4.7 to 6.1.

    The Ferrari gearbox is built in much lower numbers of between 5,000 and 10,000 annually.

    “We expect further customers, because it offers important advantages over an automatic at high revs,” says Rinderknecht.

    As such, it's not hard to imagine the gearbox becoming standard on all Ferrari road cars, much like how carbon-ceramic disc brakes have proliferated through the auto maker's lineup.

    Getrag's involvement with DCTs dates back to the early 1980s, when the supplier worked with Porsche on PDK gearboxes for its 962 Le Mans prototypes.

    Rinderknecht admits inadequate electronics slowed joint-development programs with Ford of Europe in 1996 and 1997.

    “It was clear that technology was not ready for the product,” he says “The ECU (electronic control unit) processor simply was not fast enough.“

    Without a firm commitment from an auto maker, Getrag could not devote the necessary resources to proceed with the development on its own.

    It was the Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) breakthrough by Volkswagen AG and BorgWarner Inc. in late 2003 that provided the impetus to move beyond the crude, single-clutch robotized manuals that slowly gained popularity in the late 1990s.

    “It was always a problem for us, so we were happy that VW took the system and proved it could work. It opened up the complete market,” Rinderknecht says.

    VW worked on the technology for more than 15 years before introducing the first 6-speed DSG in 2003.

    Among the auto maker's brands, VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda all offer the feature, as well as the Bugatti Veyron and its unique Ricardo plc-developed 7-speed version.

    VW built 400,000 DSG gearboxes in 2007 and recently increased daily output to 1,750 units to keep up with demand.

    Earlier this year, the auto maker released a 7-speed version (DQ200), which uses a pair of dry clutches vs. the 6-speed's wet clutches, providing an improvement in efficiency, simplicity and performance in low-power applications.

    A high-torque, 7-speed DCT with wet clutches will debut later this year on several high-performance Audi AG models under the S-tronic label.

    In addition, Getrag currently has high-volume deals for dual-clutch gearboxes with Ford Motor Co., Volvo Cars, Chrysler LLC and Mitsubishi Motors Corp.

    Combined with new transmissions continuing the charge in two of the most-storied nameplates in sports-car history, DCTs surely are destined to become de rigueur in more performance vehicles over the next decade.

    Article-link

    ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

    ZF Group: Press Information

    (16-Jun-2008)

    7-Speed Dual Clutch Transmission by Porsche and ZF Enters Volume Production

    • Faster gearshifts without traction interruption.
    • Lower consumption with improved driving performance.
    • Presentation at the 'Transmissions in Vehicles' Event of the VDI (Association of German Engineers) in Friedrichshafen.
    • Volume production launch in the Porsche 911 Carrera.

    The new dual clutch transmission is presented for the first time to approximately 900 engineers and press representatives at the VDI  'Transmissions in Vehicles' Event in Friedrichshafen. The 7DT sports transmission is particularly suited for applications with high engine speed requirements. Gear changes without traction interruption allow for very good acceleration and vehicle handling with low fuel consumption. The transmission was developed in Kressbronn, Brandenburg, and Schweinfurt; it is produced at the Brandenburg site of ZF's Car Driveline Technology division.

    Drivers of sporty cars expect their vehicle's engine power to be transformed as directly as possible into dynamic propulsion. In addition to this acceleration "linked directly to the accelerator", however, they also attach great importance to automatic shifting comfort. ZF's 7-speed sports transmission accommodates both requirements for vehicles featuring highly powerful engines: the sporty agility of a manual transmission and the shifting comfort of an automatic transmission.

    In the dual clutch transmission this becomes possible by connecting two separate transmissions to the engine via two parallel powershift clutches. The even gears are located on one transmission, the uneven ones on the other. This basic principle of the transmission has the advantage that one gear in one of these transmissions ensures propulsion, whereas in the other transmission the next gear is already preselected by the electrohydraulic control unit. When shifting, one clutch is closed while the other opens. During the shifting process, traction is not interrupted. This means that, during acceleration, engine torque is continuously transformed and propels the vehicle – making an essential difference from the manual transmissions which were usually installed in powerful sports cars. In contrast to torque converters, the dual-clutch module by ZF Sachs, the Powertrain and Suspension Components division of ZF, is also suited for higher speeds of up to 8,000 revolutions.

    All gear changes – also downshifts – are processed just as evenly and quickly with the 7DT 50 (that is the ZF-internal product designation); so the ZF dual clutch transmission sets a new benchmark for sportiness. A new speed governing concept, which is used for the first time in volume production with the 7DT, also contributes to these extremely short shifting times.

    The drivers can choose from fully automatic shifting or manual gear selection via shift paddles or a shift lever. Also in the fully automatic mode, ZF offers several shifting programs: Apart from the comfort mode, there is also a sports and a supersports mode, the latter with considerably increased shifting dynamics (fastest shifting times and race-start function).

    The 7DT sports transmission by Porsche and ZF excels thanks to its high power-to-weight ratio: The gears and shafts of the dual clutch transmission, which weighs approximately 120 kg, are produced from case hardened steel according to special, ZF-specific delivery instructions. ZF-engineers have introduced several measures - for example, controlling the cooling fluid flow as required   to keep drag losses low. The 7-speed dual clutch transmission not only allows for particularly sporty driving performance but, thanks to its very good efficiency, also achieves consumption values which are below those of a manual transmission.

    Especially with sports cars, there is a demand for transaxle transmissions – that is, transmissions with an integrated differential and axle drive – the 7DT sports transmission can also be supplied in this variant, which is suited for mid-engined vehicles with rear axle or all-wheel drive. This transaxle version of ZF's 7-speed dual clutch transmission is starting volume production in the torque range up to 450 Newton meters.

    Caption:

    New reference with dual clutch transmissions: The 7DT sports transmission by Porsche and ZF is available in two versions, for torques up to 450 and up to 700 Newton meters.

    ZF_7DT-45.jpg

    Image: ZF 7DT 45


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Dual-Clutch Transmissions: "Lucky Number Seven"

    Caption:

    New reference with dual clutch transmissions: The 7DT sports transmission by Porsche and ZF is available in two versions, for torques up to 450 and up to 700 Newton meters.

    ZF_7DT-45.jpg

    Image: ZF 7DT 45

     

     

    There´s something I can´t understand on this press release. The new 997.2 Turbo with overboost function can reach 700Nm betwen 2100-4000rpm. Does this mean the PDK is working on the limit with Turbo engine?????? I don´t think Porsche would do such thing. Maybe the 700Nm ZF gearbox  is for the Carrera atmo engines and 450Nm ZF, is for Boxster and Cayman engines. The PDK on the new Turbo sure can suport more than 700Nm, so this press release must be outdated.

    Anyway thanks for the great info post Smiley

     

    J.Seven


     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    J.Seven:

    It looks so much better withouth the fog lights, really can´t understand why they keep this ugly feature on 997.2 Smiley

    Nice photoshop work MMD Smiley

     

    J.Seven

    I agree that the lights (now they are LED "daylight" lights) do not look good.

    Perhaps, it was too expensive to change the moldSmiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    J.Seven:



     

     

    There´s something I can´t understand on this press release. The new 997.2 Turbo with overboost function can reach 700Nm betwen 2100-4000rpm. Does this mean the PDK is working on the limit with Turbo engine?????? I don´t think Porsche would do such thing. Maybe the 700Nm ZF gearbox  is for the Carrera atmo engines and 450Nm ZF, is for Boxster and Cayman engines. The PDK on the new Turbo sure can suport more than 700Nm, so this press release must be outdated.

    Anyway thanks for the great info post Smiley

     J.Seven

     

    The overboost function runs for 8 seconds at a time, if I remember well. Perhaps it's ok to be on the limit for a short time like this.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

     Guys, for 997.2 Turbo the PDK limit is 790 NM !!!!

    So overboos is ok - and moreover even Stage 1 will be OK with 750 NM


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    artur777:

     Guys, for 997.2 Turbo the PDK limit is 790 NM !!!!

    So overboos is ok - and moreover even Stage 1 will be OK with 750 NM

    What is your source?

    There must be truth to it because today the importer was telling me that there is a Turbo S ready for release in spring 2010 with 550PS and sure more than the 700Nm torque.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Dual-Clutch Transmissions: "Lucky Number Seven"

    (1-Sep-2008, Ward's AutoWorld)

    Getrag GMBH & CIE KG Becomes the latest high-profile player in the dual-clutch-transmission segment as BMW AG and Ferrari Automobiles SpA rush to incorporate the German supplier's new drivetrain technology in their newest performance cars.

    Many praise-worthy headlines are to be expected of these new transmission systems, which deliver more than ever the performance benefits of a sequential-manual gearshift with the smoothness of a conventional torque-converter automatic.

    Rushed is the wrong word to describe the similar DCT system Porsche AG developed with ZF Friedrichshafen AG for the '09 911. The German auto maker originally planned to launch the 7-speed PDK (Porsche-Doppelkupplung) gearbox with the release of the current 997-edition model, but “development issues” delayed the program by at least three years.

    However, rushed correctly applies to Getrag's 36-month development for its two all-new DCT gearboxes, which debut in the BMW M3 this fall and upcoming '09 Ferrari California.

    The new 7-speed transmissions — 7DCI600 for the M3 and 7DCL750 for the California — were developed in parallel, but according to Stephan Rinderknecht, Getrag's head of research and development, “They were independent programs; there are no common parts.”

    To broaden the 7DCI600's appeal, Getrag offers the gearbox in two basic forms, both capable of accepting up to 443 lb-ft (600 Nm) of torque.

    For the M3, the high-speed version offers a ratio spread (between first and seventh gears) of 4.8, with a direct top gear that permits 9,000 rpm.

    The alternative variant (yet to be seen on a production car), in which fifth gear is direct and sixth and seventh are overdrive gears, offers a planned ratio spread of 6.7, although this could stretch to “beyond 7.0.”

    Because the overdrive ratios would increase prop-shaft speeds to well over 10,000 rpm, this version is limited to engine speeds of 7,500 rpm.

    “The main focus in the development was a superb level of economy,” Rinderknecht says.

    In the M3, the high-speed DCT delivers a 5% fuel-economy improvement over a 6-speed automatic. However, Rinderknecht claims the wide-ratio gearbox carries at least a 10% advantage.

    “We also wanted to offer flexibility between comfort and sporting (gear) shifting and to allow short shifting in low-speed driving, so that it is capable of performing at virtually the (same) level as an automatic gearbox.”

    Still, he admits software upgrades to further improve low-speed smoothness already are in the pipeline.

    The M3 is just the first of many high-performance, front-engine/rear-drive cars to use the new 7DCI600 transmission, called M-DCT by BMW.

    Getrag's factory, 31 miles (50 km) north of Stuttgart, which produces the new gearbox, is set up to allow a “flexible concept on volumes,” Rinderknecht says, noting the factory architecture allows for a production of 100,000 units per year.

    Because the M3 only is expected to absorb about 15,000 units annually, and the addition of a DCT option for certain '09 3-Series models won't take up the remaining capacty, that leaves plenty of room for other programs.

    However, the BMW M5 and M6, which currently are saddled with the oft-criticized single-clutch SMG automated manual, will have to wait until their next iterations to sport a DCT, despite the new gearbox's ability to cope with the 5.0L V-10's 384 lb-ft (520 Nm) of torque.

    Getrag's dual-clutch transaxle unit for the Ferrari California is more robust than the BMW version and capable of absorbing 553 lb-ft (750 Nm) of torque. This is far beyond the maximum torque of Ferrari's latest V-8 powertrain, which is expected to produce in the California slightly more than the F430's 343 lb-ft (465 Nm).

    Getrag-7DCL750.jpg

    Image: Getrag 7DCL750 (Ferrari California DCT)

    It, too, is capable of extreme revs — 9,000-plus rpm, which is well above the 7,500-rpm maximum permitted by even the best conventional automatic — yet manages a range of ratio spreads from 4.7 to 6.1.

    The Ferrari gearbox is built in much lower numbers of between 5,000 and 10,000 annually.

    “We expect further customers, because it offers important advantages over an automatic at high revs,” says Rinderknecht.

    As such, it's not hard to imagine the gearbox becoming standard on all Ferrari road cars, much like how carbon-ceramic disc brakes have proliferated through the auto maker's lineup.

    Getrag's involvement with DCTs dates back to the early 1980s, when the supplier worked with Porsche on PDK gearboxes for its 962 Le Mans prototypes.

    Rinderknecht admits inadequate electronics slowed joint-development programs with Ford of Europe in 1996 and 1997.

    “It was clear that technology was not ready for the product,” he says “The ECU (electronic control unit) processor simply was not fast enough.“

    Without a firm commitment from an auto maker, Getrag could not devote the necessary resources to proceed with the development on its own.

    It was the Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) breakthrough by Volkswagen AG and BorgWarner Inc. in late 2003 that provided the impetus to move beyond the crude, single-clutch robotized manuals that slowly gained popularity in the late 1990s.

    “It was always a problem for us, so we were happy that VW took the system and proved it could work. It opened up the complete market,” Rinderknecht says.

    VW worked on the technology for more than 15 years before introducing the first 6-speed DSG in 2003.

    Among the auto maker's brands, VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda all offer the feature, as well as the Bugatti Veyron and its unique Ricardo plc-developed 7-speed version.

    VW built 400,000 DSG gearboxes in 2007 and recently increased daily output to 1,750 units to keep up with demand.

    Earlier this year, the auto maker released a 7-speed version (DQ200), which uses a pair of dry clutches vs. the 6-speed's wet clutches, providing an improvement in efficiency, simplicity and performance in low-power applications.

    A high-torque, 7-speed DCT with wet clutches will debut later this year on several high-performance Audi AG models under the S-tronic label.

    In addition, Getrag currently has high-volume deals for dual-clutch gearboxes with Ford Motor Co., Volvo Cars, Chrysler LLC and Mitsubishi Motors Corp.

    Combined with new transmissions continuing the charge in two of the most-storied nameplates in sports-car history, DCTs surely are destined to become de rigueur in more performance vehicles over the next decade.

    Article-link

    ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

    ZF Group: Press Information

    (16-Jun-2008)

    7-Speed Dual Clutch Transmission by Porsche and ZF Enters Volume Production

    • Faster gearshifts without traction interruption.
    • Lower consumption with improved driving performance.
    • Presentation at the 'Transmissions in Vehicles' Event of the VDI (Association of German Engineers) in Friedrichshafen.
    • Volume production launch in the Porsche 911 Carrera.

    The new dual clutch transmission is presented for the first time to approximately 900 engineers and press representatives at the VDI  'Transmissions in Vehicles' Event in Friedrichshafen. The 7DT sports transmission is particularly suited for applications with high engine speed requirements. Gear changes without traction interruption allow for very good acceleration and vehicle handling with low fuel consumption. The transmission was developed in Kressbronn, Brandenburg, and Schweinfurt; it is produced at the Brandenburg site of ZF's Car Driveline Technology division.

    Drivers of sporty cars expect their vehicle's engine power to be transformed as directly as possible into dynamic propulsion. In addition to this acceleration "linked directly to the accelerator", however, they also attach great importance to automatic shifting comfort. ZF's 7-speed sports transmission accommodates both requirements for vehicles featuring highly powerful engines: the sporty agility of a manual transmission and the shifting comfort of an automatic transmission.

    In the dual clutch transmission this becomes possible by connecting two separate transmissions to the engine via two parallel powershift clutches. The even gears are located on one transmission, the uneven ones on the other. This basic principle of the transmission has the advantage that one gear in one of these transmissions ensures propulsion, whereas in the other transmission the next gear is already preselected by the electrohydraulic control unit. When shifting, one clutch is closed while the other opens. During the shifting process, traction is not interrupted. This means that, during acceleration, engine torque is continuously transformed and propels the vehicle – making an essential difference from the manual transmissions which were usually installed in powerful sports cars. In contrast to torque converters, the dual-clutch module by ZF Sachs, the Powertrain and Suspension Components division of ZF, is also suited for higher speeds of up to 8,000 revolutions.

    All gear changes – also downshifts – are processed just as evenly and quickly with the 7DT 50 (that is the ZF-internal product designation); so the ZF dual clutch transmission sets a new benchmark for sportiness. A new speed governing concept, which is used for the first time in volume production with the 7DT, also contributes to these extremely short shifting times.

    The drivers can choose from fully automatic shifting or manual gear selection via shift paddles or a shift lever. Also in the fully automatic mode, ZF offers several shifting programs: Apart from the comfort mode, there is also a sports and a supersports mode, the latter with considerably increased shifting dynamics (fastest shifting times and race-start function).

    The 7DT sports transmission by Porsche and ZF excels thanks to its high power-to-weight ratio: The gears and shafts of the dual clutch transmission, which weighs approximately 120 kg, are produced from case hardened steel according to special, ZF-specific delivery instructions. ZF-engineers have introduced several measures - for example, controlling the cooling fluid flow as required   to keep drag losses low. The 7-speed dual clutch transmission not only allows for particularly sporty driving performance but, thanks to its very good efficiency, also achieves consumption values which are below those of a manual transmission.

    Especially with sports cars, there is a demand for transaxle transmissions – that is, transmissions with an integrated differential and axle drive – the 7DT sports transmission can also be supplied in this variant, which is suited for mid-engined vehicles with rear axle or all-wheel drive. This transaxle version of ZF's 7-speed dual clutch transmission is starting volume production in the torque range up to 450 Newton meters.

    Caption:

    New reference with dual clutch transmissions: The 7DT sports transmission by Porsche and ZF is available in two versions, for torques up to 450 and up to 700 Newton meters.

    ZF_7DT-45.jpg

    Image: ZF 7DT 45

     

    Smiley

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    cannga:

    Gregg and Reginos, you are BOTH right!

    I have no doubt testing for reliability and making sure that the PDK could handle the torque have caused the delayed introduction of PDK. I am sure PAG has been watching the fiasco of the GT-R double clutch gearbox with weary eyes.
    I have also seen the phrases "not fitting the GT1 engine" and "motosports homologation" in discussions as to why it is not seen in the GT3. Other reason is the added weight, I think.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

     

    Hey Can !!!

    The only thing is that it was supposed to be an option when the 997's/997 Turbo's first came out so that delay was way before any issue w/ the DI motor.

    But Fair enough, I heard that too. 

    Any interest on your part for the .2?Or why would you, you have the perfect machine already.

     

    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    STRADALE:
    cannga:

    Gregg and Reginos, you are BOTH right!

    I have no doubt testing for reliability and making sure that the PDK could handle the torque have caused the delayed introduction of PDK. I am sure PAG has been watching the fiasco of the GT-R double clutch gearbox with weary eyes.
    I have also seen the phrases "not fitting the GT1 engine" and "motosports homologation" in discussions as to why it is not seen in the GT3. Other reason is the added weight, I think.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

     

    Hey Can !!!

    The only thing is that it was supposed to be an option when the 997's/997 Turbo's first came out so that delay was way before any issue w/ the DI motor.

    But Fair enough, I heard that too. 

    Any interest on your part for the .2?Or why would you, you have the perfect machine already.

     

    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

    Hey Stradale, inteligent people don´t need to be interested on the new girl on the bloc, just because they want to date her, they might find her beautiful, inteligent and apreciate all her virtues withouth the need of having her. But there are others who can only tell bad things about this same bright girl, withouth even know her, capisce Smiley Smiley Smiley
     

    J.Seven


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    reginos:

    The typical PDK wheel is spoiled IMO by the volcano grey plastic. The same wheel on the Panamera as in the picture below, is all in one colour and much better looking.

    Why do Porsche have to make trim options so complicated?

    Yes! Totally weird that they over-complicate and stylize so..., I dunno..., so "popularly?" Where are they getting these ideas? Smiley

    You make an excellent point about the "monochrome" wheel in the Panamera picture; it makes a world of difference. Two-toned version looks slapped together. HAHA! I just thought of this: when you see a car with a different-colored door on it you don't think, "Wow that car looks great." You think, "Too bad they got in a fender bender and had to go thru the trouble of getting a replacement door from a salvage yard!"

    Smiley


    --
    2007 997 Turbo


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MMD:

     HAHA! I just thought of this: when you see a car with a different-colored door on it you don't think, "Wow that car looks great." You think, "Too bad they got in a fender bender and had to go thru the trouble of getting a replacement door from a salvage yard!"

    Smiley

    Or it could be a police patrol car and we all know that these people don't have any good aesthetic taste Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    MMD:
    reginos:

    The typical PDK wheel is spoiled IMO by the volcano grey plastic. The same wheel on the Panamera as in the picture below, is all in one colour and much better looking.

    Why do Porsche have to make trim options so complicated?

    Yes! Totally weird that they over-complicate and stylize so..., I dunno..., so "popularly?" Where are they getting these ideas? Smiley

    You make an excellent point about the "monochrome" wheel in the Panamera picture; it makes a world of difference. Two-toned version looks slapped together. HAHA! I just thought of this: when you see a car with a different-colored door on it you don't think, "Wow that car looks great." You think, "Too bad they got in a fender bender and had to go thru the trouble of getting a replacement door from a salvage yard!"

    Smiley

     


     

    Smiley Smiley Smiley

     

    J.Seven


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    reginos:
    I agree that the lights (now they are LED "daylight" lights) do not look good.

    Perhaps, it was too expensive to change the moldSmiley

    Can't be... they did it for the GT2 as well. Only, with the G2, the centre intake has the sides vertically, which absolutely doesn't match the design curves of the rest of the car. Ideally, I would choose the mixture of the two:

    The sides of the bumper of the GT2, so without the golfballs, and the centre intake of the Turbo. Can't be that hard to find you a bodyshop who'll do that for you...

    GT2_wit_turbo_inlet.jpg


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    artur777:

     Guys, for 997.2 Turbo the PDK limit is 790 NM !!!!

    So overboos is ok - and moreover even Stage 1 will be OK with 750 NM


    This makes perfect sense simply for issue of margin of safety in a car with peak torque of 700 Nm. Is this 790 Nm capacity official (source of info?)?

    Let me provide my summary. Anyone please feel free to correct as needed, I don't claim to be authoritative:
    1. 997.1 Turbo: Normal mode 620 Nm, overboost 680 Nm. Max rating of clutch maybe 750-800?
    2. 997.2 Turbo: Normal mode 650 Nm, overboost 700 Nm. Max rating of PDK perhaps 790.
    3. In the 997.1 Turbo manual, the clutch slips around 750-800.
    4. I know of at least 3 stage 2 Turbo's with clutch that slips  (for those not familiar, this is the lowest acceptable ECU mod level; stage 2 means exhaust and ECU). They are my own GIAC Turbo, only by stomping on the gas pedal in 4th gear from 2000 rpm - was trying to duplicate the dyno Smiley (and I am still on the stock clutch without any problem), eclou's GIAC, and a friend's EVOMS. Meaning, a modded Turbo could very likely be approaching  the 800 Nm torque value.

    What does this mean? IMHO:

    Modding the 997.2 Turbo, the triad:
    a. Suspension mod: 
    Shouldn't be a problem and I think you are going to need it.
    b. Exhaust mod: No problem and I know you are going to need it.
    c. ECU mod:
    Should be ok with the manual, but with PDK I most definitely would not be the first one on the block. At least not until I find out what happens when one exceeds the torque limit of the PDK. In the manual box, when the clutch slips you just replace it. With the PDK, it's anybody's guess what the bill might be and there will be no doubt the repair will be paid by the one who does the ECU mod.

    This is too bad because an ECU mod does transform the Turbo. Freed of mileage, noise, pollution, etc., restraints (so yes my carbon footprint is a little on the shitty side Smiley), tuners basically eliminate lag (not the spooling up, just the lag) from the Turbo engine and turn it into a missile that has all the power you will EVER need.
    Having said all that, the  fact is PDK is such an overwhelming improvement over the Automatic and I think the new PDK Turbo will be stupendously fast and set some record, the honest  kind Smiley, at the ring for a mass production 2+2.  So it seems to me either way, the new Turbo will be an amazing car, the best Turbo yet, and still an incomparable daily driver.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    cannga:

    Let me provide my summary. Anyone please feel free to correct as needed, I don't claim to be authoritative:
    1. 997.1 Turbo: Normal mode 620 Nm, overboost 680 Nm. Max rating of clutch maybe 750-800?
    2. 997.2 Turbo: Normal mode 650 Nm, overboost 700 Nm. Max rating of PDK perhaps 790.
    3. In the 997.1 Turbo manual, the clutch slips around 750-800.
    4. I know of at least 3 stage 2 Turbo's with clutch that slips  (for those not familiar, this is the lowest acceptable ECU mod level; stage 2 means exhaust and ECU). They are my own GIAC Turbo, only by stomping on the gas pedal in 4th gear from 2000 rpm - was trying to duplicate the dyno Smiley (and I am still on the stock clutch without any problem), eclou's GIAC, and a friend's EVOMS. Meaning, a modded Turbo could very likely be approaching  the 800 Nm torque value.

     

    The torque rating of automatic and manual is for the gearbox itwelf, not for the clutch. Since the later is easier to replace / upgrade that should be less of a concern.

    This however is a difference with the PDK since it is much more integrated into the system, albeit certainly replaceable. So apart from the gearbox, a clutch replacement would certainly be more expensive as well.

     


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Ferdie:
    cannga:

    Let me provide my summary. Anyone please feel free to correct as needed, I don't claim to be authoritative:
    1. 997.1 Turbo: Normal mode 620 Nm, overboost 680 Nm. Max rating of clutch maybe 750-800?
    2. 997.2 Turbo: Normal mode 650 Nm, overboost 700 Nm. Max rating of PDK perhaps 790.
    3. In the 997.1 Turbo manual, the clutch slips around 750-800.
    4. I know of at least 3 stage 2 Turbo's with clutch that slips  (for those not familiar, this is the lowest acceptable ECU mod level; stage 2 means exhaust and ECU). They are my own GIAC Turbo, only by stomping on the gas pedal in 4th gear from 2000 rpm - was trying to duplicate the dyno Smiley (and I am still on the stock clutch without any problem), eclou's GIAC, and a friend's EVOMS. Meaning, a modded Turbo could very likely be approaching  the 800 Nm torque value.

     

    The torque rating of automatic and manual is for the gearbox itwelf, not for the clutch. Since the later is easier to replace / upgrade that should be less of a concern.

    This however is a difference with the PDK since it is much more integrated into the system, albeit certainly replaceable. So apart from the gearbox, a clutch replacement would certainly be more expensive as well.

     

    and I doubt if PDK clutches will be separately available as parts, for some time to come


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    SmileySTRADALE:
    cannga:

    Gregg and Reginos, you are BOTH right!

    I have no doubt testing for reliability and making sure that the PDK could handle the torque have caused the delayed introduction of PDK. I am sure PAG has been watching the fiasco of the GT-R double clutch gearbox with weary eyes.
    I have also seen the phrases "not fitting the GT1 engine" and "motosports homologation" in discussions as to why it is not seen in the GT3. Other reason is the added weight, I think.


    Hey Can !!!

    The only thing is that it was supposed to be an option when the 997's/997 Turbo's first came out so that delay was way before any issue w/ the DI motor.

    But Fair enough, I heard that too. 

    Any interest on your part for the .2?Or why would you, you have the perfect machine already.

     

     


    Hi Gregg,

    There is less than zero chance I will replace my Turbo with the 997.2! I am now at a rather sweet spot for that car and have even developed sentimental attachment Smiley. It is a heirloom keeper. LOL

    997.2 Turbo will be the best Turbo yet but one, it costs too much to switch, two, improvement over 991.1, especially a modded one, is not great especially if track time with PDK is not a concern, three, I like to buy a car in the second model year, and by that time 991 will be around the corner, and four, ECU mod will take a while longer still.
    It's a great car for someone looking for a new Turbo, but there really is no reason to move from 997.1 to it. Especially if one likes the idea of having the GT1 engine. I am 50/50 on how important the GT1 engine is from a consumer's standpoint, but yes, it is heart warming to hear "GT1".
    BTW, I think you wrote it's not a good idea to be first on the block with modding 997.2's ECU? I very much agree with that.

    For the cost difference, I would much prefer adding something like a Lotus (since I am not as lucky as some people who could add a 430 as a second car Smiley). 

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo revealed - 500 hp

    J.Seven:
    STRADALE:
    cannga:

    Gregg and Reginos, you are BOTH right!

    I have no doubt testing for reliability and making sure that the PDK could handle the torque have caused the delayed introduction of PDK. I am sure PAG has been watching the fiasco of the GT-R double clutch gearbox with weary eyes.
    I have also seen the phrases "not fitting the GT1 engine" and "motosports homologation" in discussions as to why it is not seen in the GT3. Other reason is the added weight, I think.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

     

    Hey Can !!!

    The only thing is that it was supposed to be an option when the 997's/997 Turbo's first came out so that delay was way before any issue w/ the DI motor.

    But Fair enough, I heard that too. 

    Any interest on your part for the .2?Or why would you, you have the perfect machine already.

     

    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

    Hey Stradale, inteligent people don´t need to be interested on the new girl on the bloc, just because they want to date her, they might find her beautiful, inteligent and apreciate all her virtues withouth the need of having her. But there are others who can only tell bad things about this same bright girl, withouth even know her, capisce Smiley Smiley Smiley
     

    J.Seven

     

    Nope.


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    My next one is going to be with PDK. Trading in my current unit in a year or so: Case Closed.

    Why? Already have SMG in my Bimmer and like it. No feelings of "lack of connection" with car. More mental energy to pay attention to the other dynamic factors when getting frisky faster.

    Want more?

    I guess I'm not man enough  to beat the sh*t outta my current manual TT to duplicate 0-100 times every time I want to show off at a stop light. 

    Seriously, there's very little fun off the line with the current manual configuration because I'm not a trained driver and the vehicle seems like it's going to fly apart since I'm kicking the crap out of it because it's geared so low.

    Know what I mean? Seems better to have the computer do the dirty work of determining where the limits of total abuse are. Meanwhile I get all the adrenaline (in a good way) and all the glory in my fantasy world of street racing. (kidding Smiley )

    PDK? TURBO 997.2? Now with the _CORRECT_PADDLES_ HELL YES!!

    Turbo with PDK!.jpg

     


    --
    2007 997 Turbo


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: Technical Data... 

    2010-Porsche-911-Turbo_Technical-Data-details.jpg

    Smiley


     
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