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    Ruf vs Cargraphic vs FVD

    What do our German friends think about aftermarket exhausts?

    How much HP should one expect and which brand brings the most ? Cargraphic/RS claim 25 hp - is this with or without ECU tuning? Ruf claims a "significant" gain in HP - what's that?

    Also, what is the life expectancy for these 100-cell cat converters? Porsche uses 2(!) converters on each side and they are 400-cell ones...

    Re: Ruf vs Cargraphic vs FVD

    Personally I'd go with Cargraphic/RS-Tuning. We don't have sponsors, this is really my personal opinion. I talked to a lot of people, heard a lot of exhaust systems and heard how people are satisfied and what problems they encountered (if any). The 25 HP claim is actually a 21 HP claim (Cargraphic). As far as I'm informed, the Cargraphic exhaust uses 200 cell cats and not 100 cell cats. The 21 HP claim is WITHOUT ECU tuning but you might gain 21 HP in a certain rpm range and loose some HP in a different rpm range. From my experience with the Turbo, it is the best thing to do to adapt the ECU too. If you don't want to spend big money, stay with a "mild" ECU upgrade (up to 1.0 bar) and a different exhaust system incl. a sport airfilter. Adding the GT2 intercoolers isn't very expensive (truely, check with your dealer !) and this might have some advantage if you're living in a high temperature area. ECU (up to 1.0 bar boost), a sport exhaust with high flow catalysts incl. a sport airfilter gives you around 490 HP (+/ 10 HP).
    RUF builds fine cars and I appreciate his work. Unfortunately I don't have any real life specs about his sport exhaust (even if I testdrove his 996 Turbo R when it was still in the prototype status incl. the exhaust).
    FVD ? Well, they have good prices.
    Hope this helps. If you have more questions, ask.
    Oops, forgot: life expectancy for the 200 cell cats should be AT LEAST 50000 km if you drive the car VERY hard. Around 80000 km is pretty normal. I know two Turbo drivers with the Cargraphic/RS-Tuning exhaust and they already have 30000-40000 km on their cars and exhausts. No problem so far.

    Thanks RC. Which Cargraphic?

    I am leaning towards Cargraphic/RS-T as well. Now they have three models: "regular", "sound" and "super sound export". Thanks to Luigi I know that "export" is really loud, not my cup of tea What about the other two: how do they compare to the stock sound ?

    Regarding 200-cell or 100-cell cats. My info was based on a Cargraphic USA price list which lists "996 Bi-Turbo Back Box with 100 Cell Cat". Maybe this is a US-only configuration? Oh well, I plan to order the exhaust from a European retailer anyway ...

    RC, thank you again. I do value your opinion. My plan is to install the exhaust, airfilter and tune with Unichip, 1.0 bar boost. The target is 420 rwhp up from around 340 rwhp stock.

    Re: Thanks RC. Which Cargraphic?

    It depends what you want. If you want to wake up your whole neighborhood when you leave with your car in the morning, get the super sound export. If you want to have a substantial loud sound but not too annoying, go for the sound version. I cannot recommend the regular version, there is not much sound improvement.
    I'm not sure that Cargraphic is delivering different exhaust systems (100 cell cats) to the US. Maybe it is just a mistake from the US distributor or maybe the super sound export has 100 cell cats ?! Good luck.

    Re: Thanks RC. Which Cargraphic?

    I agree with RC, between all the exhausts I heard the Cargraphic one is the best sounding one by a substantial margin.It's not just the loudness, it restores a very throaty air cooled type of sound, and when you hit boost with the super sound version all hell brakes loose!
    Export version could be a little too much though, not to everyone's taste.
    For me it's never loud enough!
    Hey, I'm italian after all!!

    Cargraphic tips?

    I tried to navigate & understand the RSTuning or Cargraphic German sites.....but unsure what I was seeing there. Does the Cargraphic system allow original equip tips or did I see dual tips there like Ruf? GreggT

    Cargraphic uses single pipes on each side -

    these pipes accept the stock tip unlike Ruf's. With all due respect to RS-Tuning, their web site is pitifull. I can sympathise with their policy to concentrate on auto design not web design/marketing but still... For example, it is really unclear what is the diff between Kit 3 (542hp) and Kit 4 (569hp) for Turbo?

    RS Tuning Kit 3 vs. Kit 4

    As far as I understand the technical specifications of RS Tuning the difference between Kit 3 and Kit 4 is a harder setup of the ECU programming and different chargers.

    Cargraphic 'sound'.....more coments please

    Have you or anyone been able to compare the sound of the Cargraphic "Sound" to say Ruf or Fabspeed (and stock).....ie how about idle loudness & idle frequency/tone...also how bout any resonance points through out the power band (some, like Evo & Fabspeed have been known to have resonance points around 2-3K). Glad to here stock tips are not a problem...I assume using anyone elses headers is not an issue either. Thanks in advance for any input. Cargraphic is not as common here in NA (compared to others), so it's hard to get 1st hand info. GreggT

    RS-Tuning, their website and dual tips

    First at all, yes, the RS-Tuning's website is not very informative. Maybe this has to do with the fact, that they are a little company with lots of customers and they actually don't need to make adverstisement for their products. I talked to the brother of Mr.Schmirler (the owner of RS-Tuning) over one hour (!) on the phone, he even didn't want to stop talking. Very informative and honest conversation (in german language, I'm not sure if he speaks English). As far as I know, they don't deal directly with the US customers but sell their products through Cargraphic and this is why they don't care much about their website appearance. Regarding the difference between Kit 3 and Kit 4: it is actually mainly the turbo chargers. With Kit 3 they modify the 996 Turbo's OEM K16 and with Kit 4 you get K24 chargers which are modified too.
    Yes, a different ECU software is included too.
    Regarding the dual tips: the Cargraphic/RS-Tuning exhaust can take the original 996 Turbo tip without problems. But Cargraphic/RS-Tuning offer now dual tips for their exhaust system too and they look great. Mounting these tips AFTER you got your exhaust with the standard tips is not that simple, it has to be done some welding work on the exhaust. But from what I understood, it is possible now to order the exhaust with the dual tips already mounted. They look absolutely original, like the ones on a 993 Turbo S. And the best thing: they aren't quite straight, they follow the form of the rear bumper. I will post pictures as soon as I can, maybe today or tomorrow.

    Very helpful..thanks RC.....I look forward to pic


    RS-T modified chargers vs GT2 vs X50.

    RC and CR, thank you for clarifying the Kit 3/4 differences.

    The modified K16 chargers (KKK1624 in Cargraphic speak), would that be similar to stock GT2 chargers: same hot side as Turbo's K16 and the larger cold side impeller? As far as I understand, the X50 kit uses the same turbo as GT2 as well?

    I'd feel better if I could use Porsche parts to attain similar performance levels. Also it would be much easier to convince a certain friendly dealer that X50 chargers should not void my warranty

    Cargraphics in the U.S.

    I'm starting to get more confused now & wish I understood better which U.S. models correspond to what RS sells in Europe. In the U.S. Cargraphic sells two (200 cell cat) units that they make, the TUV (low sound) model and the Export Sound model. The new tips (they sell over here) are optional (but they appear to be straight pipes very much like Ruf and not like the overlapping Porsche optional tips...not important to me). My problem is getting a handle on that "Export Sound" level and knowing if it is one in the same as the "Super Sound Export" level sold in Europe (and refered to by some as 'substantial loud sound').....a comparison to Ruf or another would be helpful.....also there's the confusion on models.... RC, your comment on the "Regular", "Sound", and "Super Sound Export" in Europe has me a bit confused (as you recomend the "Sound" version & not the "Regular" version......so which would those 2 be over here? (is it possible we can't buy the "Sound" model over here?) GreggT

    Re: Cargraphics in the U.S.

    Well Gregg, I guess I'm confused now too. I'd guess that the sound version over here is the same as the low sound version sold in the US. The regular and sound version have TÜV over here, the Super Sound Export doesn't.
    I don't think that Cargraphic will sell a sport exhaust in the US with almost the same sound as the OEM exhaust, so my personal guess is that US "low sound" corresponds with the german "sound" version. Here are some pictures of the double tips, you can seem (if you look very carefully) that they don't look like the RUF tips:






    The last pic is in black & white so you can better see the shape of the tips.

    I got it figured out RC...(I think)

    First...thanks for the nice pics...yup those are the tips...but I'll stay w/stock for now (and Hershel here @ CG in the U.S. said their tips can be added later....but said they are very new...so I suppose he may be in error).
    But I said I had it figred out...so here ya go.
    3 models in Europe...1)Regular, 2)Sound, 3)Super Sound Export.
    In U.S. 2 models..(1)TUV (Regular in Europe) and (2)Export (Sound in Europe).......apparently they had marketed a few of the euro SuperSoundExport to resellers over here (I won't mention who) but too loud...no more.
    So....I have Export ordered....start wkg on the car next week. Guys at CG were real helpful and my order is contingent on how I like em when we throw them on.
    Thanks again for your help. GreggT

    Re: Cargraphics in the U.S.

    The easiest way to solve your problem Gregg is to look at the item/order listing for the Cargraphic exhaust: the regular is CARP96ET , the sound is CARP96ETR and the super sound is CARP96ETS.
    Just an impartial advice: Get the Super sound!!!

    Re: RS-T modified chargers vs GT2 vs X50.

    Sorry I overlooked your post but I'm in Florida right now and I was busy with our departure from Germany.
    To answer your question isn't easy at all because neither the Tuners nor Porsche give out too much details about their turbo charger mods. As you might know, the K16 and K24 name aren't actually very important, it is important what size the impellers inside the turbo chargers have and how they're shaped. RS-Tuning is using a mixed setup, you're absolutely right but I don't know if their K16 mod is the same as the OEM K24 from the GT2. I talked to RS-Tuning and they told me that for the 542 HP kit, they modify the K16 on the 996 Turbo. On the GT2, there is no need to modify the interior of the K24 but the ECU programming is different. To give you a clear answer with details is impossible because nobody actually knows. As far as I know, most Tuners just test their setups and they go with the one they think it suits their needs. There is no secret standard setup data, unfortunately.

    Thanks RC - enjoy your stay in Florida!

    I guess there is a good chance we'll soon know for sure about Porsche K16 and K24's. There is a recent thread on Rennlist 993TT and 996TT boards with pictures and (some) measurements of 993TT turbos.

    With tuners being such a niche market, getting reliable info is much harder...

    Re: Thanks RC - enjoy your stay in Florida!

    Thanks, the sun is shining, the water is warm and the food tastes great. What do I want more ? Oh yeah, my sportscar is a Lincoln Navigator right now but hey, at least it has 300 HP.
    Well, I know that there are a lot of Tuners and private people who experiment with turbo charger setups. But I wouldn't be sure that the published data will be accurate. Too many things can go wrong and too much money is involved in the Tuner market. Who is honest and who's not, this is very tough to find out. If you want to modify your Turbo, look for big money. All these little money, big result offers who sound to be too good to be true actually aren't true. I won't comment any more on Tuners but from the experience of many people I know, most of them are selling crap. And now I shut up my mouth.

     
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