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    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:

    The California once the "new Ferrari factor is gone" it will be miles behind the Audi on impact looks alone.

    And as many of you I also think this car is an fugly frog. Especially the back end!!! Oh dear... what have they done.... I mean in the older times they showed the new Ferrari and it was bang!!! nice i like it! Now all that I hear from all the Ferrari aficionados is "wait to see it on real" "You will like it latter" so much hard work to get used to this ugly frogs.....



    You are not 100% correct here, because there were worse looking Ferraris in history. Think of the 365 GTC/4 of the early 70s and the 348 and the testarossa with the "grater" design on the sides,as three example I readily remember.

    The California is too cute for a Ferrari with a dubious design of the rear. Little tall and narrow at the back, it looks stacked up like a multistoried structure when looked from behind. Another problem is that it doesn't look macho enough for many Ferrari lovers. It is little feminine and perhaps little gay in appearance if not in its abilities, which have not been tested yet by the public.

    The Audi is a successful mid-engined design but its problem is the ubiquitous standard issue Audi grille at the front, because of which the "exotic" crowd cannot take it seriously when parked outside trendy clubs and casinos; until they try to catch one on a winding road, that is.



    Yes but you misunderstand the wow factor: that is before you know what car is it, who makes it, the brand, being able to see the detail, so on... it has to make you say "WOW!!!". The Audi does it. I never heard or read of anybody to say no to that. That after that you start to criticise or you don't like the brand is another matter. And the Ferraris befre used to do exactly that. The Testarossa with it's design in the 1983 it did exactly that "WOW!!!" a big one! And everyone liked it, or not after that, but there was no need to start to explain people that this car is a Ferrari! You knew it! And that's the thing the last Ferrarisdon't have, is too much trying to explain why, what is the angles from which to be looked at... so on... And I'm also sure 100% that deep in the heart of the biggest Ferrari fan is a regret for how the California looks and the hard job they have to do to convince people that is a nice looking car. But being a Ferrari badge on the front bonnet....And again this car apart form the ugly rear end it lacks the "WOW!!!" factor.



    Perhaps it is because people nowadays are used to seeing striking and different shapes(not always beautiful though) from many manufacturers, even mainstream ones. So people do not get easily excited and the WOW factor is difficult to arouse anymore.
    In the 60s-80s and even in the early 90s normal cars were too plain, ordinary and boxy, so the few extravagant shapes(usually from the 3 italian exotics) stood out more.

    In short people are saturated now and not easily pleased, visually or otherwise. In the past people were more hungry and impressionable.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    We all should admit it. When you have to TRY SO HARD to like a design, it is not a good design. The rear end looks like an SC 430 is doing it doggy-style to an SL 55. Without the F badge would you really consider this an F car? I don't think so.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:

    The California once the "new Ferrari factor is gone" it will be miles behind the Audi on impact looks alone.

    And as many of you I also think this car is an fugly frog. Especially the back end!!! Oh dear... what have they done.... I mean in the older times they showed the new Ferrari and it was bang!!! nice i like it! Now all that I hear from all the Ferrari aficionados is "wait to see it on real" "You will like it latter" so much hard work to get used to this ugly frogs.....



    You are not 100% correct here, because there were worse looking Ferraris in history. Think of the 365 GTC/4 of the early 70s and the 348 and the testarossa with the "grater" design on the sides,as three example I readily remember.

    The California is too cute for a Ferrari with a dubious design of the rear. Little tall and narrow at the back, it looks stacked up like a multistoried structure when looked from behind. Another problem is that it doesn't look macho enough for many Ferrari lovers. It is little feminine and perhaps little gay in appearance if not in its abilities, which have not been tested yet by the public.

    The Audi is a successful mid-engined design but its problem is the ubiquitous standard issue Audi grille at the front, because of which the "exotic" crowd cannot take it seriously when parked outside trendy clubs and casinos; until they try to catch one on a winding road, that is.



    Yes but you misunderstand the wow factor: that is before you know what car is it, who makes it, the brand, being able to see the detail, so on... it has to make you say "WOW!!!". The Audi does it. I never heard or read of anybody to say no to that. That after that you start to criticise or you don't like the brand is another matter. And the Ferraris befre used to do exactly that. The Testarossa with it's design in the 1983 it did exactly that "WOW!!!" a big one! And everyone liked it, or not after that, but there was no need to start to explain people that this car is a Ferrari! You knew it! And that's the thing the last Ferrarisdon't have, is too much trying to explain why, what is the angles from which to be looked at... so on... And I'm also sure 100% that deep in the heart of the biggest Ferrari fan is a regret for how the California looks and the hard job they have to do to convince people that is a nice looking car. But being a Ferrari badge on the front bonnet....And again this car apart form the ugly rear end it lacks the "WOW!!!" factor.



    Perhaps it is because people nowadays are used to seeing striking and different shapes(not always beautiful though) from many manufacturers, even mainstream ones. So people do not get easily excited and the WOW factor is difficult to arouse anymore.
    In the 60s-80s and even in the early 90s normal cars were too plain, ordinary and boxy, so the few extravagant shapes(usually from the 3 italian exotics) stood out more.

    In short people are saturated now and not easily pleased, visually or otherwise. In the past people were more hungry and impressionable.



    sorry are there that many "wow" cars out there? and the guys from pininfarina don't know how to get a shape right anymore?

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    joo22us said:
    Without the F badge would you really consider this an F car? I don't think so.



    That's the point!!!

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:

    The California once the "new Ferrari factor is gone" it will be miles behind the Audi on impact looks alone.

    And as many of you I also think this car is an fugly frog. Especially the back end!!! Oh dear... what have they done.... I mean in the older times they showed the new Ferrari and it was bang!!! nice i like it! Now all that I hear from all the Ferrari aficionados is "wait to see it on real" "You will like it latter" so much hard work to get used to this ugly frogs.....



    You are not 100% correct here, because there were worse looking Ferraris in history. Think of the 365 GTC/4 of the early 70s and the 348 and the testarossa with the "grater" design on the sides,as three example I readily remember.

    The California is too cute for a Ferrari with a dubious design of the rear. Little tall and narrow at the back, it looks stacked up like a multistoried structure when looked from behind. Another problem is that it doesn't look macho enough for many Ferrari lovers. It is little feminine and perhaps little gay in appearance if not in its abilities, which have not been tested yet by the public.

    The Audi is a successful mid-engined design but its problem is the ubiquitous standard issue Audi grille at the front, because of which the "exotic" crowd cannot take it seriously when parked outside trendy clubs and casinos; until they try to catch one on a winding road, that is.



    Yes but you misunderstand the wow factor: that is before you know what car is it, who makes it, the brand, being able to see the detail, so on... it has to make you say "WOW!!!". The Audi does it. I never heard or read of anybody to say no to that. That after that you start to criticise or you don't like the brand is another matter. And the Ferraris befre used to do exactly that. The Testarossa with it's design in the 1983 it did exactly that "WOW!!!" a big one! And everyone liked it, or not after that, but there was no need to start to explain people that this car is a Ferrari! You knew it! And that's the thing the last Ferrarisdon't have, is too much trying to explain why, what is the angles from which to be looked at... so on... And I'm also sure 100% that deep in the heart of the biggest Ferrari fan is a regret for how the California looks and the hard job they have to do to convince people that is a nice looking car. But being a Ferrari badge on the front bonnet....And again this car apart form the ugly rear end it lacks the "WOW!!!" factor.



    Perhaps it is because people nowadays are used to seeing striking and different shapes(not always beautiful though) from many manufacturers, even mainstream ones. So people do not get easily excited and the WOW factor is difficult to arouse anymore.
    In the 60s-80s and even in the early 90s normal cars were too plain, ordinary and boxy, so the few extravagant shapes(usually from the 3 italian exotics) stood out more.

    In short people are saturated now and not easily pleased, visually or otherwise. In the past people were more hungry and impressionable.



    sorry are there that many "wow" cars out there? and the guys from pininfarina don't know how to get a shape right anymore?



    I find recent Maserati designs very acceptable. Although, the cars as such are too big and heavy for my liking. The R8 like you said is also striking although spoiled for many people by the Audi grille.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    The same arguments have raged for several decades now every time Ferrari has launched a new model. The Testarossa, 348, 456, 360, 550, 612 and 599 all took their share of negative responses from people upon launch but over time each model has developed loyal followings and been accepted as "Ferrari's". The California is no different in that it has polarised initial opinions. Some will change their opinions on it over time whilst others will continue to dislike it, the same as any other model the marque has built. Hand on heart I doubt many Rennteamers could say they love every car to have come out of Maranello or to have been penned by Pininfarina

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    The same arguments have raged for several decades now every time Ferrari has launched a new model. The Testarossa, 348, 456, 360, 550, 612 and 599 all took their share of negative responses from people upon launch but over time each model has developed loyal followings and been accepted as "Ferrari's". The California is no different in that it has polarised initial opinions. Some will change their opinions on it over time whilst others will continue to dislike it, the same as any other model the marque has built. Hand on heart I doubt many Rennteamers could say they love every car to have come out of Maranello or to have been penned by Pininfarina



    Some models have become classics with general acceptance like the Daytona, 246 Dino, 308/328, 355 to name a few.

    However, we must accept that not every model can become so beautiful and timeless. IMO the California will not become a classic as a piece of automotive sculpture but it will go down in Ferrari history as a car that has redefined Ferrari as a proper maker of automobiles and not merely a manufacturer of expensive,exclusive limited use objects on wheels.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    The same arguments have raged for several decades now every time Ferrari has launched a new model. The Testarossa, 348, 456, 360, 550, 612 and 599 all took their share of negative responses from people upon launch but over time each model has developed loyal followings and been accepted as "Ferrari's". The California is no different in that it has polarised initial opinions. Some will change their opinions on it over time whilst others will continue to dislike it, the same as any other model the marque has built. Hand on heart I doubt many Rennteamers could say they love every car to have come out of Maranello or to have been penned by Pininfarina



    Usually you are right on the mark, but here you try too much. First of all the car forums have only been around since 2000 roughly, so where did these debates rage?

    Anyways I know the first time I saw a 928 in 1983 I thought wow. When I saw the testarossa introduced on Miami Vice I thought wow, the same for a 308 on magnum. When I first saw a mondial I thought what a piece of [beep]!

    Something is either a winner or a loser. 599 and 612 miss by a little, but this california is lousy, though not as bad as the enzo. Last good design was 360/430.

    If you're a ferrari fan to the point of losing objectivity you will talk yourself into anything, same with porsche and the panamera mule.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    racerx,

    I was only making the point that controversy over a design is nothing new. Someone over on Fchat made a great post about previous models being slated when new but now being almost hailed by many as iconic models. He had dug out posts from the early days of the site as proof. One particularly memorable model change was from the mid engined V12 512M (Testarossa) to the front engined V12 550. Most people were horrified that a bedroom poster icon with futuristic and supercar styling had been replaced by a Ferrari badged Toyota Supra clone. The styling debates on some of the other cars in pre web forum days were in the good old fashioned medium of letters to the editor of various car magazines. I've been reading those for longer than I care to remember and certainly recall some venom directed towards the various models I mentioned

    I personally don't wave a torch for any manufacturer but buy a car based upon whether I like it's individual design. It's a fact that some designs take time to be appreciated by the majority and the design is often dismissed as fugly (a term I personally hate). Over time and with more familiarity of seeing the design on the road opinions change. The Bangle school of BMW design is a point in case. The current 5 was savaged by the vast majority of lovers of the previous model. They simply could not adjust to the new styling yet over time most have come a full 360 deg and are now devotees of the car.

    It doesn't worry me that people don't like the California based upon their initial viewings of photographs. What surprises me more is the view that it is somehow not a true Ferrari. Considering the company spent the first half of it's life producing GT cars I find this a bit odd. It seems that if it's not a) red and b) mid-engined then it has no right to wear a prancing horse The final point I'd make on this particular car is that it has been designed to attract new buyers to the brand. For many people the F430 is too conspicuous and not a viable proposition as a daily use car. The California is not a wow, look at me design for this very reason. It lacks the initial beauty of an Aston Vantage or Maserati GranTurismo but it may just age better as a result of being a design that grows on you. Time will tell.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Though I did not mention it in the previous post the 550/575 had to be the blandest car design from Ferrari in decades. Performance wise, great though. But design wise a turkey.

    There is nothing bad about making GT's or even sedan's, just don't make a bad gt or bad sedan. Ferrari design peaked here;
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=464279&page=1&fpart=1&vc=1

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    I still don't like the look of the California, sorry they won't win me over now matter how much I have to look at it.



    +1

    Same here. Tried my best but doesn't work for me!

    Re: California at the Paris show

    A pic from the Ferrari Days / Nürburgring


    [URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img142/p1000924pv4.jpg/1/][IMG]

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Somebody know the exact price ???????????????

    Re: California at the Paris show



    Can't remember where I read it but 180,000 euros was mentioned.

    Re: California at the Paris show

    A pic with Ferrari CEO Amedeo Felisa leaning against the car to give it scale. This shot shows that the tail is not as high as some pics have made it appear.


    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    I still don't like the look of the California, sorry they won't win me over now matter how much I have to look at it.



    +1

    Same here. Tried my best but doesn't work for me!


    +2.. same here

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    conner said:
    Somebody know the exact price ???????????????



    Euro 179.600 italy

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    A pic with Ferrari CEO Amedeo Felisa leaning against the car to give it scale. This shot shows that the tail is not as high as some pics have made it appear.





    That's called perspective so it is normal that the rear end does not look that tall! Look at the picture above posted by conner, the red car with the women at the back and you will see that the rear end it is really high!

    Re: California at the Paris show

    ed,

    I'm aware of what perspective is thanks and as I've stood next to the car myself and sat in it at the factory launch party I think I'm on safe ground when I say the rear is not as high or ungainly as some people think

    Re: California at the Paris show

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    ed,

    I'm aware of what perspective is thanks and as I've stood next to the car myself and sat in it at the factory launch party I think I'm on safe ground when I say the rear is not as high or ungainly as some people think





     
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