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    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    intouch1:
    zmeulzmeilor:

    Sure, it isn't just a "rechip" like the above poster said, but still, it doesn't quallify in any way as a "brand new engine". It's just a 550i with more power, like I said.

     

     

     

     

     


    the m engine has nothing to do with the normal v8 as rc already mentioned elsewhere.

    Wikipedia says: The S63 engine is a high output variation of the N63 power unit.

    Does anyone know if the S63 has wet sump lubrication? If not, it really is a slightly modified N63 which is not necessary a bad thing.

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    intouch1:
    zmeulzmeilor:

    Sure, it isn't just a "rechip" like the above poster said, but still, it doesn't quallify in any way as a "brand new engine". It's just a 550i with more power, like I said.

     the m engine has nothing to do with the normal v8 as rc already mentioned elsewhere.

     I don't care what rc said, i just gave you a quote from bmw's press release:

    "The first modern turbocharged M engine: twin scroll twin turbo technology with a patented exhaust manifold.
    Using BMW’s innovative, 4.4L reverse-flow V8 engine with High Precision Direct Injection and twin turbochargers as a basis, the new M engine introduces twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies to achieve outstanding thrust and pulling force, while preserving the most compact dimensions possible."

    Read more: http://www.carsuk.net/bmw-x5m-bmw-x6m-press-release/#ixzz1IlpEuVJf

    So even they admit it's bassically the same engine but with "twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies". If you can't read, then that's your problem not mine Smiley 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     Why do you have to be so aggressive zmeulzmeilor? (romanian nickname?) You kinda remind me of that guy mariusv (also from romania) who had an argument with John H...he stopped posting. oddly, you showed up shortly after 


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Agent991:

     Why do you have to be so aggressive zmeulzmeilor? (romanian nickname?) You kinda remind me of that guy mariusv (also from romania) who had an argument with John H...he stopped posting. oddly, you showed up shortly after 


    +1   Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Don`t understand also that aggressive speach from zmeulzmeilor.... especially with the new M5.... like i said before: don`t like it then.... leave it....

    I think that everybody (or almost) here can read... what i doubt is that everybody know`s about mechanic...

    I will not loose any more word with someone who says that the M5 F10 is un "up-grade" from a 550i F10....  

     

     

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Hahaha

    Nice observation Agent991, and welcome btw

    zmellysmeilor also forgets to talk about suspension, bracing, brakes, interior, exterior changes, etc....


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    A search of his posts reveals a similar tone on almost all subjects


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     The plot thickens. ... 


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    haha, we could use a troll once in a while... he won't last long


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    zmeulzmeilor:
     If you can't read, then that's your problem not mine Smiley 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    frankly, i prefer driving my x6m than reading about it...Smiley


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Very childish behavior indeed. And a lot of misplaced aggression too.  Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     Official (?) confirmation. 552 BHP, which translates to 560 PS. http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/256409/


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Agent991:

     Why do you have to be so aggressive zmeulzmeilor? (romanian nickname?) You kinda remind me of that guy mariusv (also from romania) who had an argument with John H...he stopped posting. oddly, you showed up shortly after 

    Oh, not this "aggressive" bs again. The first time I was called aggressive for asking a perfectly legitimate question. Now you call me the same for pointing out (ironically, of course) the fact that some of the members of this forum don't seem to know how to read, since even after they're shown evidence that they're wrong, they still maintain that they're right, ignoring the evidence which anyone can read. Not to mention they don't even have the decency to back up their claims with facts: they say that the M5 engine doesn't have anything to do with the 550i engine, but they don't give any reference what so ever for this claim other that "X says so", where X is just a member of this forum. How many times do I have to show them the same quote from bmw, which says the X6M/M5 engine is based on the 550i engine, and it's essentially the same engine but with a different turbo technology and more power ?

    And I showed up with a different nickname because the administrator "forgot" to lift the posting restriction after 2 months like he said he would. I waited 2 months, as to respect his decision, and then made a new account. Also, you should know that there is a difference between being aggressive and being caustic/sarcastic. If not even sarcasm is allowed on this forum, then what is ?

     

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     Very childish behavior indeed. And a lot of misplaced aggression too.  

    Smiley

    Yes indeed, it's very childish to ignore the evidence, and at the same time claim, without any evidence what so ever, that what you say is true, despite the previously mentioned evidence to the contrary..Smiley 

     


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    to people who own x6m or x5m

    when you pull from low rpm 2-3 times do you get a "engine fault reduced power" message which goes away when you restart the car?
     
    I got this problem and took the car to dealer twice, they read the codes changed the sensors but nothing worked and they said its normal just restart the car when you get this message Smiley
    I also noticed you cant use launch control after using it once or twice within 5 min or so which is not so bad if i don't get any engine fault messages
     
    so my guess is 555 hp for the 4.4l engine might be just a little bit over the safe zone and they cant push engine power for the new m5 without risking reliability

    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Love this car, Im guessing the the new m5 will be out around sept, november in the US?


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    zmeulzmeilor:
    If not even sarcasm is allowed on this forum, then what is ?

     

     


    You can choose to be sarcastic as long as you are ready to be ignored. However, your half way there, congrats...Smiley....


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    zmeulzmeilor:


    So even they admit it's bassically the same engine but with "twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies". If you can't read, then that's your problem not mine Smiley 

    They do not admit that it is basically the same engine, the say only based(which may be true following the development path but not the parts involved) and you should try to understand that we are a bunch of knowledgable people here. Not perfect, we make mistakes too but since I own a X5 M, I was highly interested in the engine and it's roots. I actually made the mistake to insult the engineers involved with this engine, by telling them the same stuff you said here in the forum. I got a pretty heavy slap from M GmbH because of that...of course figuratively speaking. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Turbocharger:

    to people who own x6m or x5m

    when you pull from low rpm 2-3 times do you get a "engine fault reduced power" message which goes away when you restart the car?
     
    I got this problem and took the car to dealer twice, they read the codes changed the sensors but nothing worked and they said its normal just restart the car when you get this message Smiley
    I also noticed you cant use launch control after using it once or twice within 5 min or so which is not so bad if i don't get any engine fault messages
     
    so my guess is 555 hp for the 4.4l engine might be just a little bit over the safe zone and they cant push engine power for the new m5 without risking reliability

     

    Honestly speaking: I think your dealer is just too dumb to find the problem. No offense meant.

    My X5 M has almost 12000 km so far. Driven very very hard(my wife says I'm crazy that I'm driving a SUV that way Smiley but I didn't drive the Cayenne differently), sometimes also at top speed (now 294 kph on the speedo, real speed around 280 kph) due to the M Driver's package. The car never had a single problem, it is just perfect, the most reliable BMW I ever owned. I used launch control only twice, there isn't really a need for it because the car is really lightning fast from standstill, even without launch control.

    Just make sure you give this beast the right quality of fuel...Shell V Power all the way for my turbo charged engines. Always.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    RC:
    :
     
    Honestly speaking: I think your dealer is just too dumb to find the problem.

     

     

     

    Smiley  Smiley


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    RC:

    Honestly speaking: I think your dealer is just too dumb to find the problem. No offense meant.

    My X5 M has almost 12000 km so far. Driven very very hard(my wife says I'm crazy that I'm driving a SUV that way Smiley but I didn't drive the Cayenne differently), sometimes also at top speed (now 294 kph on the speedo, real speed around 280 kph) due to the M Driver's package. The car never had a single problem, it is just perfect, the most reliable BMW I ever owned. I used launch control only twice, there isn't really a need for it because the car is really lightning fast from standstill, even without launch control.

    Just make sure you give this beast the right quality of fuel...Shell V Power all the way for my turbo charged engines. Always.

     


    sure they are, and I'm glad that yours never had this problem

    but I gave up on the car for various of reasons and went for a cayenne turbo


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    Turbocharger:
    RC:

    Honestly speaking: I think your dealer is just too dumb to find the problem. No offense meant.

    My X5 M has almost 12000 km so far. Driven very very hard(my wife says I'm crazy that I'm driving a SUV that way Smiley but I didn't drive the Cayenne differently), sometimes also at top speed (now 294 kph on the speedo, real speed around 280 kph) due to the M Driver's package. The car never had a single problem, it is just perfect, the most reliable BMW I ever owned. I used launch control only twice, there isn't really a need for it because the car is really lightning fast from standstill, even without launch control.

    Just make sure you give this beast the right quality of fuel...Shell V Power all the way for my turbo charged engines. Always.

     


    sure they are, and I'm glad that yours never had this problem

    but I gave up on the car for various of reasons and went for a cayenne turbo

    I thought you guys have a great BMW dealer in Doha?


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    koko:
    Turbocharger:
    RC:

    Honestly speaking: I think your dealer is just too dumb to find the problem. No offense meant.

    My X5 M has almost 12000 km so far. Driven very very hard(my wife says I'm crazy that I'm driving a SUV that way Smiley but I didn't drive the Cayenne differently), sometimes also at top speed (now 294 kph on the speedo, real speed around 280 kph) due to the M Driver's package. The car never had a single problem, it is just perfect, the most reliable BMW I ever owned. I used launch control only twice, there isn't really a need for it because the car is really lightning fast from standstill, even without launch control.

    Just make sure you give this beast the right quality of fuel...Shell V Power all the way for my turbo charged engines. Always.

     


    sure they are, and I'm glad that yours never had this problem

    but I gave up on the car for various of reasons and went for a cayenne turbo

    I thought you guys have a great BMW dealer in Doha?

    I thought you knew otherwise from your smileys Smiley

    they aren't so great if they tell me to live with the engine fault


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    turbocharger, on my x6 50i i had the engine light come on several times, it was diagnosed to be bad fuel. the 50i i had imported from the usa.

    on my x6m sourced from the local dealer and with europe/mid-east calibration i never had this problem.

    maybe it's a coincidence, but i do believe that the engines or sensors are calibrated slightly different for their respective markets.

    on the order of my sls and c63 i could spec 'inferior fuel location'


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    RC:
    zmeulzmeilor:


    So even they admit it's bassically the same engine but with "twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies". If you can't read, then that's your problem not mine Smiley 

    They do not admit that it is basically the same engine, the say only based(which may be true following the development path but not the parts involved) and you should try to understand that we are a bunch of knowledgable people here. Not perfect, we make mistakes too but since I own a X5 M, I was highly interested in the engine and it's roots. I actually made the mistake to insult the engineers involved with this engine, by telling them the same stuff you said here in the forum. I got a pretty heavy slap from M GmbH because of that...of course figuratively speaking. Smiley

    Ok, so in what way is the M engine different to the 550i engine, other than the twin-scroll turbo and exhaust manifold, like they say in the press-release ? Is it reengeneered from the ground up, or they just changed some of the parts (like the crackcase, pistons) with more resistant ones ? Is the RPM increased, at least ?


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

     Hi

    I got the same problem   "engine fault reduced power" message which goes away when you restart the car? 

    I'll leave the car on Mondays for repair


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    IMG_0158.JPG 


    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    engine power reduced might be related to something else.

    i had only the cel light on but car did in no way behave erratic.

    some cars also show cel if the tank is not closed properly and there is vacuum loss.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: BMW will officially unveil the 2012 BMW M5 this Friday

    X5 ///M S63 engine

    S63 Engine

    There is a twin scroll twin turbo version of the N63, known as the S63, with Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold (CCM). Engine is rated 555 PS (408 kW; 547 hp) at 6000 rpm and 680 N·m (500 lb·ft) at 1500-5650 rpm. It currently powers the X5 M and X6 M, the high performance derivatives of BMW's Sports Activity Series crossovers.

    Using BMW's innovative "M Twin Power Turbo" engine with high precision Direct Injection and twin turbochargers as a basis, the new M engine introduces twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies to achieve outstanding thrust and pulling force, while preserving the most compact dimensions possible. Two low-mass twin-scroll turbochargers are positioned together with the catalytic converters in the “V” section between the two banks of cylinders. By reversing the flow of gases through the engine from traditional arrangements, the intake and exhaust ducts are shortened and widened. The result is that pressure losses on the exhaust side are minimized. The goals: virtually eliminate turbocharger lag while maximizing combustion efficiency and power output. Tremendous power and performance are delivered by the engine in the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M through a new reverse flow design and construction principle.[4]

    The new M V8 engine with twin-scroll twin turbo technology uses a single exhaust manifold with tuned-length runners, incorporating both cylinder banks and connecting cylinders in carefully selected pairs. This configuration, patented by BMW M and known as Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold () (check this in Product Library), offers lightning-quick response, a linear build-up of engine power, and a broad, consistent torque curve by feeding each of the twin turbochargers with a “charge pulse” at approximately every 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation, rather than the more traditional “irregular schedule” of charging.[5]

    The managed flow of exhaust gas provided by the Cylinder bank Comprehensive Manifold ensures high-velocity flow of combustion gases. The appropriate separation of exhaust gas flow from different cylinders is maintained until the gas reaches the turbine wheel, spooling the two twin-scroll turbochargers without back-pressure. With maximum boost pressure), the use of twin-scroll twin turbo technology and the patented exhaust manifold allows complete exploitation of the benefits of turbocharging


    The M TwinPower Turbo: Twin Scroll Twin Turbo Technology with a joint exhaust manifold for both rows of cylinders making its debut in the market.
    Power and performance typical of BMW M is delivered by the power unit in both the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M by a new design and construction principle: The new M TwinPower Turbo with Twin Scroll Twin Turbo Technology and the exhaust manifold extending over both rows of cylinders patented by BMW offer absolutely extreme response and spontaneity, a linear build-up of engine power, and an unusually consistent torque curve.
    The two turbochargers are positioned together with the catalytic converters in the V-section between the two rows of cylinders. The position of the intake and exhaust ducts provided in this way serves to reduce the length of the pipes and manifolds and increase their cross-section, with pressure losses on the exhaust side being significantly minimised in the process.
    The joint flow of exhaust gas provided by the common manifold system connecting two cylinders at a time also ensures optimum gas throughput. The separation of exhaust flow is continued until the exhaust gas reaches the turbine wheel, building up ongoing pressure on the two Twin Scroll Turbochargers not impaired by any kind of counter-pressure.
    With maximum charge pressure amounting to 1.5 bar, the use of Twin Scroll Twin Turbo Technology with its inter-cylinder exhaust manifold makes unique use of the turbocharging potential.

    Immediate, direct response to the gas pedal and truly exceptional pulling force from the engine starting at low speeds and continuing consistently to the highest load level characterise the new M TwinPower Turbo from BMW M GmbH. The truly impressive development of power ensured in this way is accompanied by fascinating engine sound accentuating the fast-revving engine characteristics and the linear build-up of power by a supreme acoustic effect typical of a BMW M Car.

    Reflecting the superior power of the engine, the V8 power unit comes with a cooling system developed specifically for the two new models. One special feature in this context is the indirect intercooling effect serving to optimise performance under particularly dynamic driving conditions.
    The new M TwinPower Turbo develops its outstanding output and performance with equally outstanding efficiency. In addition to direct ¬High Precision Injection, both the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M are equipped with a wide range of technologies from BMW ¬EfficientDynamics. Apart from Brake Energy Regeneration, these also include on-demand control of the electrical fuel pump, a detectable a/c compressor, as well as a volume flow-controlled supply of hydraulic fluid to the anti-roll system also operating specifically on demand.

    Both models offer average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle of 13.9 litres/ 100 kilometres, equal to 20.3 mpg imp. Their CO2 rating is 325 grams per kilometre. And last but not least, the engine naturally fulfils all the requirements of the US LEV II standard as well as the EU5 requirements in Europe.


    X5 xDrive50i - N63B44 engine


    N63B44 features a reverse-flow air design in which the turbochargers are mounted in the engine valley and the intake manifolds are located on the sides of the block. This new design creates a more compact engine package and reduces the width of the assembled engine. The engine uses air-to-water intercoolers, which is more efficient and provides a shorter air path than using a standard air-to-air intercooler. [1]

    Similar to the N54B30, the N63B44 does not use the second generation Valvetronic technology found in other current engines. The principal advantage of Valvetronic is the reduction of intake vacuum, which is not an issue in the pressurized intake found in a turbo-charged engine.

    In terms of performance, the N63 is a close match to the N73 V12 engine found in the previous-generation E65 760i/Li, so the BMW N74 V12 engine had to be redesigned for the F01 760i/Li in order to maintain its status as the flagship of the range.[3]


    A class of its own: the new 8-cylinder engine with Twin Turbo technology.
    Supremacy as the most important feature – this applies both to the BMW X models and to its 8-cylinder power units. And now the BMW X6 is adding an incomparably dynamic variant to the line-up of BMW x models, with the world’s first Sports Activity Coupé for the first time boasting a particularly sporting and dynamic 8-cylinder. Displacing 4.4 litres, the new V8 power unit with Twin Turbo technology and direct petrol injection (High Precision Injection) develops maximum output of 300 kW/407 bhp across a broad range of engine speed from 5,500–6,400 rpm. Engine torque reaches its peak of 600 Newton-metres/ 442 lb-ft across an unusually large speed range from 1,750–4,500 rpm. The spontaneous, intense and long-lasting thrust generated in this way is the result of Twin Turbo technology already featured on BMW’s most powerful in-line 6-cylinder engine combined with High Precision Injection. In the new V8 the cooling effect of direct fuel injection also ensures a compression ratio which is quite unusual for a turbocharged power unit, helping to give the engine an even higher level of all-round efficiency.

    The arrangement of the turbochargers and catalytic converters in the V-section between the two rows of cylinders is likewise an innovation in technology, allowing particularly compact engine dimensions and at the same time requiring new configuration of the intake and exhaust ducts. This means shorter intake and exhaust manifolds and larger cross-sections, thereby significantly reducing pressure losses on both the intake and exhaust side.
    The all-aluminium V8 power unit developed for the BMW X6 offers all the qualities typical of an 8-cylinder in incomparably sporty style. In practice this means a combination of superior torque at low engine speeds with an ongoing surge of power and performance up to the higher speed range. The BMW X6 xDrive50i accelerates from 0–100 km/h in just 5.4 seconds and boasts ample power reserves for fascinating acceleration also at higher speeds. Top speed is a truly impressive 250 km/h or 155 mph, limited electronically by the engine control unit.

    Twin Turbo technology featured for the first time in an 8-cylinder petrol engine.

    The power and performance characteristics of the new V8 derive to a large extent from Twin Turbo technology, the use of two turbochargers for the first time in an 8-cylinder power unit serving to boost both engine output and torque with maximum efficiency. Each of the two turbochargers supplies compressed air to four cylinders at a time, ensuring particular spontaneity and a direct reaction to the accelerator pedal. As with the in-line 6-cylinder engine featuring Twin Turbo technology, the turbo lag typical of a turbocharged engine with conventional technology – i.e. the time lag until the turbocharger builds up its power and boost – is virtually eliminated by this superior technology. A further advantage is that the engine revs up smoothly and full of power, maintaining its high torque consistently across an unusually broad range of engine speed. In its power and performance characteristics, therefore, the engine is comparable to a significantly larger naturally aspirated power unit while offering the advantage of much lower weight also thanks to its all-aluminium crankcase.

    Not only the dimensions and weight of the new V8 are unusually modest, the fuel consumption is also exceptionally low for an engine of this calibre.
    A significant factor contributing to the superior fuel economy is double VANOS continuously variable camshaft management, a technology characteristic of BMW power units. This technology is in fact one of the reasons why the V8 already develops exceptionally high torque from low engine speeds. High Precision Injection also plays a key role in the efficient use of fuel. This second generation of direct petrol injection uses piezo injectors positioned directly next to the spark plugs in the cylinder head and delivering fuel into the combustion chambers at a pressure of 200 bar. The advantage is extremely precise dosage of fuel, with the further benefit of reduced emissions and improved engine acoustics. The engine fulfils both the US ULEV II emissions standard as well as the EU5 requirements in Europe.

    The new V8 power unit is the most efficient engine in its class. Combined with a number of further technologies developed in the overall context of BMW EfficientDynamics, the engine gives the BMW X6 xDrive50i fuel consumption and emission figures which are significantly better than other 8-cylinder vehicles competing with the BMW x models. Average fuel consumption of the BMW X6 xDrive50i is 12.5 litres/100 km (equal to 22.6 mpg imp), the CO2 rating is 299 grams per kilometre.
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