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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Awesome demo of the many cameras which are always on. Nice to have if you are a consumer and your car has a quality issue like this. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Ask the world about their general perception of Americans wink

    Porsche have stated many times the turbo name is a trim level. Plus, they aren't the only one using the word turbo without haven't a turbo, You should be old enough to have one of those PCs with a turbo button. But alas, it's the Tesla people that want to focus on that word.

    Btw, if we want to talk about compressing air, technically, the Taycan turbo is already compressing air when it's moving, the front end experiences high air pressure as the air can't get away fast enough, that's already compressing air, ask any fluid dynamics engineer. Smiley

     

     

     


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    Nothing to add to this insulting, silly and pointless discussion. 
    Double down on your proclamation. Any idea what people who hold those types of stereotypes are? 🤔 

    Technically the Tesla does a lot more autopilot than a Taycan compressed air. See how stupid that sounds. 

     

    Elon and his lemmings. Smiley


     

    America, where Real Cheese is a brand name and people are expected to know that it is most likely is far from real. No one (actual consumers) complains because, like complaining there is no Santa, it is foolish for an adult to keep doing. That’s what lawyers are for. 
    happy Friday buddy 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:

    Hopefully an exceptional occurance...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRO-sNuquM

    Tesla ranks last on influential JD Power quality survey”

     (25 June 2020)

    the tesla model 3

    The Tesla Model 3 sold well enough for Tesla to be included in this year’s survey.

    JD Power scored Tesla vehicles the worst among 32 major brands in its annual quality study. It’s the first time that Tesla’s cars have been ranked by the influential customer survey now in its 34th year. 

    According to the JD Power Initial Quality Study, which measures vehicle quality in the first 90 days of ownership, Tesla cars suffered 250 problems per 100 vehicles as reported by customers, compared to an industry average of 166 problems. Land Rover was the second-worst-performing brand with 228 problems per 100 vehicles. Dodge and Kia were tied for the top-rated brand with just 136 issues per 100 vehicles.

    The new study is based on responses from 87,282 purchasers and lessees of new 2020 model-year vehicles. It was fielded from February through March 2020. The results follow news of a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) investigation into early Model S touchscreen failures, and a separate report claiming early Model S cars shipped with a dangerous battery pack flaw.

    Concerns that Musk prioritizes quantity over quality are a recurring theme for Tesla

    Tesla receives a special callout in the list because the survey doesn’t cover all 50 states. However, increased sales of the Model 3 allowed JD Power to collect enough data to measure quality for the first time. “Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required,” said JD Power’s Doug Betts. “However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”

    Last summer, reports emerged that Tesla was cutting corners on Model 3 production to meet aggressive goals. The company had to build a temporary tent to meet Musk’s ambitious target of producing 6,000 Model 3’s per week. Concerns that Musk has prioritized quantity over quality are a recurring theme for Tesla, that have recently been extended to the Model Y. The data collected by JD Power bears this out.

    “What we call the blocking and tackling of building the car, that’s what Tesla is not good at according to this data,” said Betts in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Tesla customers surveyed complained of body panel accuracy, rattles, wind noise, and paint jobs, according to Betts.

    Here’s the full ranking, showing the problems per 100 vehicles as reported by owners in JD Power’s 2020 IQS:

    1. Dodge (136)
    2. Kia (136)
    3. Chevrolet (141)
    4. Ram (141)
    5. Genesis (142)
    6. Mitsubishi (148)
    7. Buick (150)
    8. GMC (151)
    9. Volkswagen (152)
    10. Hyundai (153)
    11. Jeep (155)
    12. Lexus (159)
    13. Nissan (161)
    14. Cadillac (162)
    15. Infiniti (173)
    16. Ford (174)
    17. Mini (174)
    18. BMW (176)
    19. Honda (177)
    20. Toyota (177)
    21. Lincoln (182)
    22. Mazda (184)
    23. Acura (185)
    24. Porsche (186)
    25. Subaru (187)
    26. Chrysler (189)
    27. Jaguar (190)
    28. Mercedes-Benz (202)
    29. Volvo (210)
    30. Audi (225)
    31. Land Rover (228)
    32. Tesla (250)

    Link: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21302804/tesla-ranks-last-on-influential-jd-power-quality-survey

    C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

     

    America, where Real Cheese is a brand name and people are expected to know that it is most likely is far from real. No one (actual consumers) complains because, like complaining there is no Santa, it is foolish for an adult to keep doing. That’s what lawyers are for. 
    happy Friday buddy 

     

    Is also a land where people think Corona beer causes the Corona virus...................Smiley

    Also a land where people think Canada is a state in the USA.............

    Or perhaps Walmart is a place where they can just wear whatever to go to....................

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I don’t understand why you feel the need to insult Americans.  Perhaps the freedom thing bugs the shit out of everyone, if they can’t have it. There is no substitute. No money or car or fancy house can take its place. 
    It’s why we have an immigration problem. 
    cheers


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:.............The Tesla Model 3 sold well enough for Tesla to be included in this year’s survey.

    JD Power scored Tesla vehicles the worst among 32 major brands in its annual quality study. It’s the first time that Tesla’s cars have been ranked by the influential customer survey now in its 34th year. 

    According to the JD Power Initial Quality Study, which measures vehicle quality in the first 90 days of ownership, Tesla cars suffered 250 problems per 100 vehicles as reported by customers, compared to an industry average of 166 problems. Land Rover was the second-worst-performing brand with 228 problems per 100 vehicles. Dodge and Kia were tied for the top-rated brand with just 136 issues per 100 vehicles.

    The new study is based on responses from 87,282 purchasers and lessees of new 2020 model-year vehicles. It was fielded from February through March 2020. The results follow news of a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) investigation into early Model S touchscreen failures, and a separate report claiming early Model S cars shipped with a dangerous battery pack flaw.

    Concerns that Musk prioritizes quantity over quality are a recurring theme for Tesla

    Tesla receives a special callout in the list because the survey doesn’t cover all 50 states. However, increased sales of the Model 3 allowed JD Power to collect enough data to measure quality for the first time. “Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required,” said JD Power’s Doug Betts. “However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”

    Last summer, reports emerged that Tesla was cutting corners on Model 3 production to meet aggressive goals. The company had to build a temporary tent to meet Musk’s ambitious target of producing 6,000 Model 3’s per week. Concerns that Musk has prioritized quantity over quality are a recurring theme for Tesla, that have recently been extended to the Model Y. The data collected by JD Power bears this out.

    “What we call the blocking and tackling of building the car, that’s what Tesla is not good at according to this data,” said Betts in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Tesla customers surveyed complained of body panel accuracy, rattles, wind noise, and paint jobs, according to Betts.

    Here’s the full ranking, showing the problems per 100 vehicles as reported by owners in JD Power’s 2020 IQS:

    1. Dodge (136)
    2. Kia (136)
    3. Chevrolet (141)
    4. Ram (141)
    5. Genesis (142)
    6. Mitsubishi (148)
    7. Buick (150)
    8. GMC (151)
    9. Volkswagen (152)
    10. Hyundai (153)
    11. Jeep (155)
    12. Lexus (159)
    13. Nissan (161)
    14. Cadillac (162)
    15. Infiniti (173)
    16. Ford (174)
    17. Mini (174)
    18. BMW (176)
    19. Honda (177)
    20. Toyota (177)
    21. Lincoln (182)
    22. Mazda (184)
    23. Acura (185)
    24. Porsche (186)
    25. Subaru (187)
    26. Chrysler (189)
    27. Jaguar (190)
    28. Mercedes-Benz (202)
    29. Volvo (210)
    30. Audi (225)
    31. Land Rover (228)
    32. Tesla (250)

    Link: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21302804/tesla-ranks-last-on-influential-jd-power-quality-survey

    C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif  

    So Tesla has joined the 200+ club with some of those other junk makers Mercedes-Benz and Audi. Good thing the Dodge dealer is so close to my house  Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why you feel the need to insult Americans.  Perhaps the freedom thing bugs the shit out of everyone, if they can’t have it. There is no substitute. No money or car or fancy house can take its place. 
    It’s why we have an immigration problem. 
    cheers

     

    Pointing out the obvious does not equal to insulting. It's just speaking the truth. And truth hurts.

    It's only fair game if Americans, who love to criticize others, that they should be able to take criticisms themselves. The street goes both ways. 

    When talking about automakers, for years, or actually decades, GM, Ford, Chrysler have been the laughing stock on quality. What did they do? Instead of denying the truth, and making up excuses like Tesla did, they just keep their head down and work on their deficiency. Now their quality is up there, the new Corvette? It's better finished than any Jaguar or Land Rover. On par with Honda and Toyota. The new Ford Bronco looks to be a winner also.

    The only way to get better is to first be humble and listen to criticisms. Most of which are really quite obvious and being pointed out. Denying doesn't get one very far. 

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

      Can Tesla justify a $300bn valuation?

    Elon Musk’s company is the world’s most valuable carmaker, but it has never made a profit...

    A Tesla Model X electric car at the Brussels Motor Show in January

    (18 July 2020)

    When Elon Musk tweeted in May that the share price of Tesla was “too high” at $780, it caused a brief moment of panicked selling by investors in the electric carmaker. Yet two months later Tesla had overtaken Toyota as the world’s most valuable carmaker in a remarkable rally in which its market value briefly topped $300bn this week.

    Tesla has never made an annual profit but the company has a market value equivalent to a third of the combined US, EU and Japanese auto indices – despite an expected share of only 0.8% of the global auto market this year. That disconnect has prompted re-evaluation from some investors and euphoria for others as they try to work out if the carmaker can ever justify the heady valuation.

    Small investors have been quick to jump onboard, with the share dealing service Robinhood saying the number of its accounts holding Tesla shares has doubled since June.

    Analysts are often afraid to call a bubble, given the potential for egg on their face, but the share price surge to more than $1,500 (after briefly breaking above $1,700 on Monday) has made even Tesla optimists wary. The company’s valuation is more than 60 times analysts’ average expectations for core earnings in 2020. That multiple implies that Tesla will not only become profitable but that it will become the world’s dominant carmaker. Many do not think it will last.

    “It is an irrational bubble,” said Matthias Schmidt, an automotive analyst who covers electric vehicles, “or perhaps more appropriately a massive tidal wave of investors irrationally investing in a brand with little knowledge of the business while shrewd, experienced market investors, perhaps going against all of their rational financial experience, are taking advantage, putting their wet suits on and riding the Tesla wave, boosting the price further.”

    Analysts at Evercore ISI, an investment bank, referenced tulips in a note published on Tesla this week – an allusion to the tulip mania that stands among the cautionary tales for investors in any asset that enjoys such explosive price growth.

    Yet as the Evercore analysts note, even if Tesla’s valuation appears “dislocated from traditional valuation metrics”, predicting if and when it will move back into line with the fundamental state of the company is a tricky proposition.

    It is also potentially expensive. Short sellers have borrowed Tesla shares worth $20bn – the largest equity short ever seen – to sell on in the hope that prices will fall. Those investors hope to buy the shares back after the price has fallen but rapid increases in share prices can mean they are forced to abandon their bets at a painful loss.

    Musk did not bother to disguise his glee at short sellers’ discomfort: earlier this month he sold a batch of red satin “short shorts” on Tesla’s website at $69.420 – a price deliberately linked to the “4/20” date on which many people celebrate cannabis consumption. Musk previously used the number in 2018 when he claimed he had agreed a buyout of Tesla at $420 per share.

    Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters

     Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters.

    The touchpaper under the rocketing share price was lit in October, when the company surprised many investors with a quarterly profit and a bullish outlook. Shares suffered in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit but recovered as Musk – drawing a barrage of criticism that he was endangering workers’ health – kept his California factory open.

    Tesla delivered more than 90,000 cars to customers in the second quarter of 2020 – beating expectations despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic to production and the huge job losses in many of its main markets. Tesla has also made progress in expanding its Shanghai factory to serve China, the world’s biggest car market.

    Elon Musk

     Elon Musk kept Tesla’s California factory open despite the coronavirus pandemic

    The share price move has left some analysts scrambling to keep up. The Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter this week raised his target price for Tesla from $939 to $2,322, citing faster than expected gains in market share, plus the opportunity of charging subscription fees for fully self-driving software updates – a technology considered to be some years away.

    The company has also shown its commitment to constantly innovating and has built up an impressive advantage through its network of proprietary charging points, said Alyssa Altman, a consultant to transport and mobility companies at Publicis Sapient. 

    However, many automotive analysts remain sceptical. Tesla had an “open goal” in North America and Europe where major carmakers were unprepared to bring electric cars to market, Schmidt said. That has changed in Europe thanks to new carbon dioxide emissions limits. Volkswagen and the Renault/Nissan alliance have both sold more electric cars than Tesla in Europe this year as they race to catch up.

    Tesla’s aggressive tactics also leave it more vulnerable than the more conservative incumbents to scandal. A German court gave a shot across Tesla’s bows this week, ruling the company’s description of driver-assistance features as “autopilot” was misleading. Governance concerns – such as watching Musk’s Twitter feed for securities law violations or potential libels – are also a big problem for a company that is so intimately linked with the personality of its billionaire boss. 

    Then again, separate Piper Sandler analysis suggests that mentions of Tesla on TV news are “fairly strongly” correlated with a higher share price. Controversy can have a payoff, whatever Tesla’s chances of auto industry domination.

    Link: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/18/tesla-valuation-elon-musk-profit 

    EA8AE689-42DC-4E82-AA3F-8B68118241A2.png

    Smiley 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why you feel the need to insult Americans.  Perhaps the freedom thing bugs the shit out of everyone, if they can’t have it. There is no substitute. No money or car or fancy house can take its place. 
    It’s why we have an immigration problem. 
    cheers

     

    Pointing out the obvious does not equal to insulting. It's just speaking the truth. And truth hurts.

    It's only fair game if Americans, who love to criticize others, that they should be able to take criticisms themselves. The street goes both ways. 

    When talking about automakers, for years, or actually decades, GM, Ford, Chrysler have been the laughing stock on quality. What did they do? Instead of denying the truth, and making up excuses like Tesla did, they just keep their head down and work on their deficiency. Now their quality is up there, the new Corvette? It's better finished than any Jaguar or Land Rover. On par with Honda and Toyota. The new Ford Bronco looks to be a winner also.

    The only way to get better is to first be humble and listen to criticisms. Most of which are really quite obvious and being pointed out. Denying doesn't get one very far. 

     

    You know maybe this is a waste of time. You seem to have this CCP strategy of relentlessly punching back with total bullshit down to an art.  Life is too short.  I’m sorry that with all your wealth and experience all you can see is hate.  You seem to have no concept of how freedom works or how to make friends. Just because we are in a free world in the US where your organs won’t be harvested or your family murdered for you saying stupid and insulting stuff does not mean you should do it.  Just to be polite and kind seems to be step one in being free. 
    You are welcome buddy


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

      Can Tesla justify a $300bn valuation?

    Elon Musk’s company is the world’s most valuable carmaker, but it has never made a profit...

    A Tesla Model X electric car at the Brussels Motor Show in January

    (18 July 2020)

    When Elon Musk tweeted in May that the share price of Tesla was “too high” at $780, it caused a brief moment of panicked selling by investors in the electric carmaker. Yet two months later Tesla had overtaken Toyota as the world’s most valuable carmaker in a remarkable rally in which its market value briefly topped $300bn this week.

    Tesla has never made an annual profit but the company has a market value equivalent to a third of the combined US, EU and Japanese auto indices – despite an expected share of only 0.8% of the global auto market this year. That disconnect has prompted re-evaluation from some investors and euphoria for others as they try to work out if the carmaker can ever justify the heady valuation.

    Small investors have been quick to jump onboard, with the share dealing service Robinhood saying the number of its accounts holding Tesla shares has doubled since June.

    Analysts are often afraid to call a bubble, given the potential for egg on their face, but the share price surge to more than $1,500 (after briefly breaking above $1,700 on Monday) has made even Tesla optimists wary. The company’s valuation is more than 60 times analysts’ average expectations for core earnings in 2020. That multiple implies that Tesla will not only become profitable but that it will become the world’s dominant carmaker. Many do not think it will last.

    “It is an irrational bubble,” said Matthias Schmidt, an automotive analyst who covers electric vehicles, “or perhaps more appropriately a massive tidal wave of investors irrationally investing in a brand with little knowledge of the business while shrewd, experienced market investors, perhaps going against all of their rational financial experience, are taking advantage, putting their wet suits on and riding the Tesla wave, boosting the price further.”

    Analysts at Evercore ISI, an investment bank, referenced tulips in a note published on Tesla this week – an allusion to the tulip mania that stands among the cautionary tales for investors in any asset that enjoys such explosive price growth.

    Yet as the Evercore analysts note, even if Tesla’s valuation appears “dislocated from traditional valuation metrics”, predicting if and when it will move back into line with the fundamental state of the company is a tricky proposition.

    It is also potentially expensive. Short sellers have borrowed Tesla shares worth $20bn – the largest equity short ever seen – to sell on in the hope that prices will fall. Those investors hope to buy the shares back after the price has fallen but rapid increases in share prices can mean they are forced to abandon their bets at a painful loss.

    Musk did not bother to disguise his glee at short sellers’ discomfort: earlier this month he sold a batch of red satin “short shorts” on Tesla’s website at $69.420 – a price deliberately linked to the “4/20” date on which many people celebrate cannabis consumption. Musk previously used the number in 2018 when he claimed he had agreed a buyout of Tesla at $420 per share.

    Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters

     Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters.

    The touchpaper under the rocketing share price was lit in October, when the company surprised many investors with a quarterly profit and a bullish outlook. Shares suffered in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit but recovered as Musk – drawing a barrage of criticism that he was endangering workers’ health – kept his California factory open.

    Tesla delivered more than 90,000 cars to customers in the second quarter of 2020 – beating expectations despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic to production and the huge job losses in many of its main markets. Tesla has also made progress in expanding its Shanghai factory to serve China, the world’s biggest car market.

    Elon Musk

     Elon Musk kept Tesla’s California factory open despite the coronavirus pandemic

    The share price move has left some analysts scrambling to keep up. The Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter this week raised his target price for Tesla from $939 to $2,322, citing faster than expected gains in market share, plus the opportunity of charging subscription fees for fully self-driving software updates – a technology considered to be some years away.

    The company has also shown its commitment to constantly innovating and has built up an impressive advantage through its network of proprietary charging points, said Alyssa Altman, a consultant to transport and mobility companies at Publicis Sapient. 

    However, many automotive analysts remain sceptical. Tesla had an “open goal” in North America and Europe where major carmakers were unprepared to bring electric cars to market, Schmidt said. That has changed in Europe thanks to new carbon dioxide emissions limits. Volkswagen and the Renault/Nissan alliance have both sold more electric cars than Tesla in Europe this year as they race to catch up.

    Tesla’s aggressive tactics also leave it more vulnerable than the more conservative incumbents to scandal. A German court gave a shot across Tesla’s bows this week, ruling the company’s description of driver-assistance features as “autopilot” was misleading. Governance concerns – such as watching Musk’s Twitter feed for securities law violations or potential libels – are also a big problem for a company that is so intimately linked with the personality of its billionaire boss. 

    Then again, separate Piper Sandler analysis suggests that mentions of Tesla on TV news are “fairly strongly” correlated with a higher share price. Controversy can have a payoff, whatever Tesla’s chances of auto industry domination.

    Link: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/18/tesla-valuation-elon-musk-profit 

    EA8AE689-42DC-4E82-AA3F-8B68118241A2.png

    Smiley 

    It is impossible to accurately compare Tesla to the other automakers. Even in the JD powers survey they could not properly categorize the car. 
    While all the other car makers are fairly similar one needs to consider serval other things. Tesla does not sell just cars and their revenue streams are nothing like the ICE car makers. They are far more vertically integrated for one thing. They really are a software company, solar company and battery company - able to  charge for items like software upgrades and other new sources of revenue like VPP brokerage in the future. 
    The other part of the comparison problem is that the ICE makers face a painful transition to manage the shift to EV. They are not EV companies and render many current tech investments useless as they proceed including huge investments in tooling etc. -  not that this makes up for the huge imbalance in investments but it does explain why comparisons are not easy. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

      Can Tesla justify a $300bn valuation?

    Elon Musk’s company is the world’s most valuable carmaker, but it has never made a profit...

    A Tesla Model X electric car at the Brussels Motor Show in January

    (18 July 2020)

    When Elon Musk tweeted in May that the share price of Tesla was “too high” at $780, it caused a brief moment of panicked selling by investors in the electric carmaker. Yet two months later Tesla had overtaken Toyota as the world’s most valuable carmaker in a remarkable rally in which its market value briefly topped $300bn this week.

    Tesla has never made an annual profit but the company has a market value equivalent to a third of the combined US, EU and Japanese auto indices – despite an expected share of only 0.8% of the global auto market this year. That disconnect has prompted re-evaluation from some investors and euphoria for others as they try to work out if the carmaker can ever justify the heady valuation.

    Small investors have been quick to jump onboard, with the share dealing service Robinhood saying the number of its accounts holding Tesla shares has doubled since June.

    Analysts are often afraid to call a bubble, given the potential for egg on their face, but the share price surge to more than $1,500 (after briefly breaking above $1,700 on Monday) has made even Tesla optimists wary. The company’s valuation is more than 60 times analysts’ average expectations for core earnings in 2020. That multiple implies that Tesla will not only become profitable but that it will become the world’s dominant carmaker. Many do not think it will last.

    “It is an irrational bubble,” said Matthias Schmidt, an automotive analyst who covers electric vehicles, “or perhaps more appropriately a massive tidal wave of investors irrationally investing in a brand with little knowledge of the business while shrewd, experienced market investors, perhaps going against all of their rational financial experience, are taking advantage, putting their wet suits on and riding the Tesla wave, boosting the price further.”

    Analysts at Evercore ISI, an investment bank, referenced tulips in a note published on Tesla this week – an allusion to the tulip mania that stands among the cautionary tales for investors in any asset that enjoys such explosive price growth.

    Yet as the Evercore analysts note, even if Tesla’s valuation appears “dislocated from traditional valuation metrics”, predicting if and when it will move back into line with the fundamental state of the company is a tricky proposition.

    It is also potentially expensive. Short sellers have borrowed Tesla shares worth $20bn – the largest equity short ever seen – to sell on in the hope that prices will fall. Those investors hope to buy the shares back after the price has fallen but rapid increases in share prices can mean they are forced to abandon their bets at a painful loss.

    Musk did not bother to disguise his glee at short sellers’ discomfort: earlier this month he sold a batch of red satin “short shorts” on Tesla’s website at $69.420 – a price deliberately linked to the “4/20” date on which many people celebrate cannabis consumption. Musk previously used the number in 2018 when he claimed he had agreed a buyout of Tesla at $420 per share.

    Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters

     Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters.

    The touchpaper under the rocketing share price was lit in October, when the company surprised many investors with a quarterly profit and a bullish outlook. Shares suffered in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit but recovered as Musk – drawing a barrage of criticism that he was endangering workers’ health – kept his California factory open.

    Tesla delivered more than 90,000 cars to customers in the second quarter of 2020 – beating expectations despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic to production and the huge job losses in many of its main markets. Tesla has also made progress in expanding its Shanghai factory to serve China, the world’s biggest car market.

    Elon Musk

     Elon Musk kept Tesla’s California factory open despite the coronavirus pandemic

    The share price move has left some analysts scrambling to keep up. The Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter this week raised his target price for Tesla from $939 to $2,322, citing faster than expected gains in market share, plus the opportunity of charging subscription fees for fully self-driving software updates – a technology considered to be some years away.

    The company has also shown its commitment to constantly innovating and has built up an impressive advantage through its network of proprietary charging points, said Alyssa Altman, a consultant to transport and mobility companies at Publicis Sapient. 

    However, many automotive analysts remain sceptical. Tesla had an “open goal” in North America and Europe where major carmakers were unprepared to bring electric cars to market, Schmidt said. That has changed in Europe thanks to new carbon dioxide emissions limits. Volkswagen and the Renault/Nissan alliance have both sold more electric cars than Tesla in Europe this year as they race to catch up.

    Tesla’s aggressive tactics also leave it more vulnerable than the more conservative incumbents to scandal. A German court gave a shot across Tesla’s bows this week, ruling the company’s description of driver-assistance features as “autopilot” was misleading. Governance concerns – such as watching Musk’s Twitter feed for securities law violations or potential libels – are also a big problem for a company that is so intimately linked with the personality of its billionaire boss. 

    Then again, separate Piper Sandler analysis suggests that mentions of Tesla on TV news are “fairly strongly” correlated with a higher share price. Controversy can have a payoff, whatever Tesla’s chances of auto industry domination.

    Link: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/18/tesla-valuation-elon-musk-profit 

    EA8AE689-42DC-4E82-AA3F-8B68118241A2.png

    Smiley 

    It is impossible to accurately compare Tesla to the other automakers. Even in the JD powers survey they could not properly categorize the car. 
    While all the other car makers are fairly similar one needs to consider serval other things. Tesla does not sell just cars and their revenue streams are nothing like the ICE car makers. They are far more vertically integrated for one thing. They really are a software company, solar company and battery company - able to  charge for items like software upgrades and other new sources of revenue like VPP brokerage in the future. 
    The other part of the comparison problem is that the ICE makers face a painful transition to manage the shift to EV. They are not EV companies and render many current tech investments useless as they proceed including huge investments in tooling etc. -  not that this makes up for the huge imbalance in investments but it does explain why comparisons are not easy. 

    With all due respect, if you take a close look at Tesla financial results, you will see that over 95% of gross profit is generated in the “Automotive segment” while the “Energy generation and storage segment” represents less than 5% of gross profit

    8F551BE5-24BC-4F55-A700-BD2AFF1B45CD.jpeg

    ABF32566-377B-40CB-9401-9D4FD2D08881.jpeg

    So the solar and energy business is tiny, they do not produce their own batteries, their software is using hardware that will never be able to achieve Full Self Driving - whatever the false advertising claims - and the China factory is pledged to Chinese banks that will likely end up owning it.

    C044BE0E-663C-4B0A-B4E5-722E75C6F12A.jpeg

    9EF99388-4F7E-402E-AB57-9C93B5FFF11C.jpeg

    3BEC18B6-5801-4037-8E06-8A7B9498B10B.jpeg

    Imagine you are a MBA student working on a case study of the Tesla stock bubble of 2020 - can you see any clues in the financial statements? Is it a superstar of financial markets or a fraud?

    53E66ABB-B47D-4541-B24D-14367D052F74.jpeg

    ...based on the reported facts, is just a small car company with not much growth, sub-standard manufacturing quality, increasing global competition, a sub-investment grade balance sheet and a notable lack of profitability despite all the subsidies accounted for at 100% gross margin!   C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Leawood911:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

      Can Tesla justify a $300bn valuation?

    Elon Musk’s company is the world’s most valuable carmaker, but it has never made a profit...

    A Tesla Model X electric car at the Brussels Motor Show in January

    (18 July 2020)

    When Elon Musk tweeted in May that the share price of Tesla was “too high” at $780, it caused a brief moment of panicked selling by investors in the electric carmaker. Yet two months later Tesla had overtaken Toyota as the world’s most valuable carmaker in a remarkable rally in which its market value briefly topped $300bn this week.

    Tesla has never made an annual profit but the company has a market value equivalent to a third of the combined US, EU and Japanese auto indices – despite an expected share of only 0.8% of the global auto market this year. That disconnect has prompted re-evaluation from some investors and euphoria for others as they try to work out if the carmaker can ever justify the heady valuation.

    Small investors have been quick to jump onboard, with the share dealing service Robinhood saying the number of its accounts holding Tesla shares has doubled since June.

    Analysts are often afraid to call a bubble, given the potential for egg on their face, but the share price surge to more than $1,500 (after briefly breaking above $1,700 on Monday) has made even Tesla optimists wary. The company’s valuation is more than 60 times analysts’ average expectations for core earnings in 2020. That multiple implies that Tesla will not only become profitable but that it will become the world’s dominant carmaker. Many do not think it will last.

    “It is an irrational bubble,” said Matthias Schmidt, an automotive analyst who covers electric vehicles, “or perhaps more appropriately a massive tidal wave of investors irrationally investing in a brand with little knowledge of the business while shrewd, experienced market investors, perhaps going against all of their rational financial experience, are taking advantage, putting their wet suits on and riding the Tesla wave, boosting the price further.”

    Analysts at Evercore ISI, an investment bank, referenced tulips in a note published on Tesla this week – an allusion to the tulip mania that stands among the cautionary tales for investors in any asset that enjoys such explosive price growth.

    Yet as the Evercore analysts note, even if Tesla’s valuation appears “dislocated from traditional valuation metrics”, predicting if and when it will move back into line with the fundamental state of the company is a tricky proposition.

    It is also potentially expensive. Short sellers have borrowed Tesla shares worth $20bn – the largest equity short ever seen – to sell on in the hope that prices will fall. Those investors hope to buy the shares back after the price has fallen but rapid increases in share prices can mean they are forced to abandon their bets at a painful loss.

    Musk did not bother to disguise his glee at short sellers’ discomfort: earlier this month he sold a batch of red satin “short shorts” on Tesla’s website at $69.420 – a price deliberately linked to the “4/20” date on which many people celebrate cannabis consumption. Musk previously used the number in 2018 when he claimed he had agreed a buyout of Tesla at $420 per share.

    Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters

     Red satin ‘short shorts’ that Elon Musk sold on Tesla’s website to mock the carmaker’s doubters.

    The touchpaper under the rocketing share price was lit in October, when the company surprised many investors with a quarterly profit and a bullish outlook. Shares suffered in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit but recovered as Musk – drawing a barrage of criticism that he was endangering workers’ health – kept his California factory open.

    Tesla delivered more than 90,000 cars to customers in the second quarter of 2020 – beating expectations despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic to production and the huge job losses in many of its main markets. Tesla has also made progress in expanding its Shanghai factory to serve China, the world’s biggest car market.

    Elon Musk

     Elon Musk kept Tesla’s California factory open despite the coronavirus pandemic

    The share price move has left some analysts scrambling to keep up. The Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter this week raised his target price for Tesla from $939 to $2,322, citing faster than expected gains in market share, plus the opportunity of charging subscription fees for fully self-driving software updates – a technology considered to be some years away.

    The company has also shown its commitment to constantly innovating and has built up an impressive advantage through its network of proprietary charging points, said Alyssa Altman, a consultant to transport and mobility companies at Publicis Sapient. 

    However, many automotive analysts remain sceptical. Tesla had an “open goal” in North America and Europe where major carmakers were unprepared to bring electric cars to market, Schmidt said. That has changed in Europe thanks to new carbon dioxide emissions limits. Volkswagen and the Renault/Nissan alliance have both sold more electric cars than Tesla in Europe this year as they race to catch up.

    Tesla’s aggressive tactics also leave it more vulnerable than the more conservative incumbents to scandal. A German court gave a shot across Tesla’s bows this week, ruling the company’s description of driver-assistance features as “autopilot” was misleading. Governance concerns – such as watching Musk’s Twitter feed for securities law violations or potential libels – are also a big problem for a company that is so intimately linked with the personality of its billionaire boss. 

    Then again, separate Piper Sandler analysis suggests that mentions of Tesla on TV news are “fairly strongly” correlated with a higher share price. Controversy can have a payoff, whatever Tesla’s chances of auto industry domination.

    Link: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/18/tesla-valuation-elon-musk-profit 

    EA8AE689-42DC-4E82-AA3F-8B68118241A2.png

    Smiley 

    It is impossible to accurately compare Tesla to the other automakers. Even in the JD powers survey they could not properly categorize the car. 
    While all the other car makers are fairly similar one needs to consider serval other things. Tesla does not sell just cars and their revenue streams are nothing like the ICE car makers. They are far more vertically integrated for one thing. They really are a software company, solar company and battery company - able to  charge for items like software upgrades and other new sources of revenue like VPP brokerage in the future. 
    The other part of the comparison problem is that the ICE makers face a painful transition to manage the shift to EV. They are not EV companies and render many current tech investments useless as they proceed including huge investments in tooling etc. -  not that this makes up for the huge imbalance in investments but it does explain why comparisons are not easy. 

    With all due respect, if you take a close look at Tesla financial results, you will see that over 95% of gross profit is generated in the “Automotive segment” while the “Energy generation and storage segment” represents less than 5% of gross profit

    8F551BE5-24BC-4F55-A700-BD2AFF1B45CD.jpeg

    ABF32566-377B-40CB-9401-9D4FD2D08881.jpeg

    So the solar and energy business is tiny, they do not produce their own batteries, their software is using hardware that will never be able to achieve Full Self Driving - whatever the false advertising claims - and the China factory is pledged to Chinese banks that will likely end up owning it.

    C044BE0E-663C-4B0A-B4E5-722E75C6F12A.jpeg

    9EF99388-4F7E-402E-AB57-9C93B5FFF11C.jpeg

    3BEC18B6-5801-4037-8E06-8A7B9498B10B.jpeg

    Imagine you are a MBA student working on a case study of the Tesla stock bubble of 2020 - can you see any clues in the financial statements? Is it a superstar of financial markets or a fraud?

    53E66ABB-B47D-4541-B24D-14367D052F74.jpeg

    ...based on the reported facts, is just a small car company with not much growth, sub-standard manufacturing quality, increasing global competition, a sub-investment grade balance sheet and a notable lack of profitability despite all the subsidies accounted for at 100% gross margin!   C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

     

    Tesla faithfuls cannot see past whatever Elon says, they can only see the fancy word 'disrupter' and that one word is the sole excuse for calling everyone wrong in their assessment of Tesla. 

    In their eyes, every other maker is incapable of making EVs and they will all disappeared in due time leaving Tesla as the only car maker in the world and every single consumer will be happy with a Tesla and nothing else. Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Love those short shorts 


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For our TSLA investors, I have a simple question...At what price would you sell Monday? $1500? $1700? $2000? Never? I just want to have some idea of what your opinion of fair value for these shares is right now. Because I have a hard time believing they aren't crazily overbought... But it's outside my area of expertise and I try to keep an open mind about what is happening here...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    mcdelaug:

    For our TSLA investors, I have a simple question...At what price would you sell Monday? $1500? $1700? $2000? Never? I just want to have some idea of what your opinion of fair value for these shares is right now. Because I have a hard time believing they aren't crazily overbought... But it's outside my area of expertise and I try to keep an open mind about what is happening here...

     

    Didn't one analyst says he predicts  $15,000 per share? Think they are holding till that price. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    mcdelaug:

    For our TSLA investors, I have a simple question...At what price would you sell Monday? $1500? $1700? $2000? Never? I just want to have some idea of what your opinion of fair value for these shares is right now. Because I have a hard time believing they aren't crazily overbought... But it's outside my area of expertise and I try to keep an open mind about what is happening here...

     

    Didn't one analyst says he predicts  $15,000 per share? Think they are holding till that price. 

    This scenario reminds more and more of the BITCOIN fantasy...Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Just a reminder that we had this same discussion a year ago and the year prior to that. Love this thread. 
    $6000 by next year sounds reasonable.  
    They have the hardware needed to self drive. My car has it.  I don’t know why people think that this is a holdup.  The new 2.0 software stack which is AI based is getting up to speed to use the hardware and new processors. The rules and regulation are the biggest obstacle at this point.  If you don’t live with one of these cars you can’t appreciate how well they self drive already. 
    I see more of a problem for the stock holders of the other automakers. Imagine if Tesla is able to make cars fast enough and starts to advertise. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    Just a reminder that we had this same discussion a year ago and the year prior to that. Love this thread. 
    $6000 by next year sounds reasonable.  
    They have the hardware needed to self drive. My car has it.  I don’t know why people think that this is a holdup.  The new 2.0 software stack which is AI based is getting up to speed to use the hardware and new processors. The rules and regulation are the biggest obstacle at this point.  If you don’t live with one of these cars you can’t appreciate how well they self drive already. 
    I see more of a problem for the stock holders of the other automakers. Imagine if Tesla is able to make cars fast enough and starts to advertise. 

    I have no issue looking at the stock going to its top and then blow or not. I have nothing to lose or to win. to me, it is just advertisement. Unfortunately, some people will lose their savings in this. Quick valuation of a company is based on its revenue and its profit from a pure technical analysis. Once you put the feelings into it, you are trying to justify anything to see a potential extra value. this is over inflated and currently a hype stock with billions of dollar in short. The conclusion will not be pretty, I hope I am wrong.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Ask the world about their general perception of Americans wink

    This is true and very unfortunate but it may also be related to Trump and Hollywood, also some arrogance EU media sometimes shows when it comes to the US. I watch the same news about a US topic from EU media, then from US media (Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS) and it sounds basically completely different or the EU media reports are a direct "translation" of (very often) CNN. 

    The truth is: 90% of the people I know who criticize Americans and the US have never been in the US. Those who have been there were offended by something, like for example one of my wife's friends was dumped by her American boyfriend and the husband of one of my wife's friends works for a US company and thinks he is a genius (he is not Smiley Smiley) and everyone else at his company, especially his US boss, are idiots. 

    You have to like the US lifestyle though but won't be surprised to hear that I feel more at home in the US than in Germany, so do my kids (they speak fluently American English) because they have been basically raised with American culture, minus that religious crap. Smiley Smiley

    Porsche have stated many times the turbo name is a trim level. Plus, they aren't the only one using the word turbo without haven't a turbo, You should be old enough to have one of those PCs with a turbo button. But alas, it's the Tesla people that want to focus on that word.

    It was a clever marketing ploy from Porsche to name the Taycan 4S, Turbo and Turbo S, even if some of us may not agree.

    Btw, if we want to talk about compressing air, technically, the Taycan turbo is already compressing air when it's moving, the front end experiences high air pressure as the air can't get away fast enough, that's already compressing air, ask any fluid dynamics engineer. Smiley

    Smiley Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    I see more of a problem for the stock holders of the other automakers. Imagine if Tesla is able to make cars fast enough and starts to advertise. 

    Well, seems like they reached their limit long time ago.

    Many Model 3 owners having alot of build quality problems. The most ridiculous one is the bumper coming off while driving in the rain Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRO-sNuquM

    https://insideevs.com/news/434581/model-3-rear-bumper-issue-affected-customers/

    https://carbuzz.com/news/tesla-model-3-owners-complain-car-bumper-breaks-in-the-rain


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Did we not see this here a couple days ago or did you find a second one?  I would expect this given JD powers results. 
    Glad no other makers ever have quality issues or recalls. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I do like Tesla, but their problem is going to be that they still don't make a tenth of the number of cars of Toyota or Volkswagen. Even without having brand new factories with the latest in robotic assembly and paint, those companies consistently make cars with panel gaps and paint quality that meet industry standards.

    Tesla does have the drivetrain advantage. However, the drivetrain (engine, transmission, fuel tank, etc.) only makes up about 20 to 25% of the cost to build a car. Now especially if you consider the number of companies outsourcing transmissions to Aisin or ZF, then the amount of capital dedicated to the ICE drivetrain isn't all that large relative to the overall vehicle production cost.

    When you look back at the manufacturers of horse drawn carriages who successfully transitioned to making horseless carriages and are still in the automobile business today; then the move from ICE to BEV is going to be quite a bit easier.

    The value of self driving is still an unknown in the market place. Personally, I guess it will be a good thing for the developmentally disabled who seem to be driving quite a bit lately. They will most likely not be able to afford it though and I will not be buying it for myself. I do think it is really neat, but not really of significant value.

    Tesla has done a great job of promoting the acceptance of electric vehicles and greatly improved the performance along the way, but they have critically failed in many areas such as using a heat pump to enhance winter driving range not being introduced until the model Y. That goes well with every other enhancement they have made for the model Y which also directly bags on the model 3 by it's lacking the same quality of hardware and no software upgrade can alter that situation.

    Still, nice cars to buy just not a smart stock purchase.

    Cheers wink



    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I am in a serious dilemma here: Next year, I have to get a new car for my business.

    What to get? AMG muted their cars and the next generation will be even worse. M GmbH? Even worse. Porsche? Well, they could save things with the upcoming 911 Carrera GTS but I'm afraid they won't.

    So what to get as a business car in Germany? If most cars sound like crap anyway, why not save some money (tax advantages) and get a Tesla 3 Performance instead? Seriously. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

    I would take a Taycan Turbo or Turbo S but they are way too expensive and the lease offers are a joke right now.

    Otherwise, there are no alternatives on the market. BMW, Mercedes, Audi...they have nothing I am interested in. So sad.

    Maybe I can still find a new Jeep GC Trackhawk next year, there are some very good offers right now in Germany, this would be an interesting alternative as well. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If that change needs to happen toward Mid to the end of next year, should have plenty of offers...

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Yesterday I received a Taycan 4s leasing around 1.200 € per month with some down payment. Still, not a bargain but P is going in the right direction.

    I use right now my S63 AMG cabrio as a daily car and X7 M50i for vacations. I am also waiting for a cool BEV car. Tesla 3 is cool but I do not like the interior and the build quality. I am waiting either for the new Tesla S or the new MB EQS or Taycan 2nd generation.


    --

    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    ALDO:

    Yesterday I received a Taycan 4s leasing around 1.200 € per month with some down payment. Still, not a bargain but P is going in the right direction.

    Agreed. I hope the offers get better, dealers hope for the same. Porsche Financial is really not reading their customers well, they are losing customers to the competition. Btw: Porsche Financial is also responsible for Lamborghini leases, their last lease offer for an Urus was...how to put it...breathtaking (I almost got a heart attack). Smiley

    The moment I can get a Taycan Turbo for 1500 EUR a month, without any down payment, I'm in. Smiley

    I use right now my S63 AMG cabrio as a daily car and X7 M50i for vacations. I am also waiting for a cool BEV car. Tesla 3 is cool but I do not like the interior and the build quality. I am waiting either for the new Tesla S or the new MB EQS or Taycan 2nd generation.

    Tesla 3 Performance would be a pure daily driver to and from work, nothing more. Maybe a family car for some weekends here and there but mostly a daily commuter. For me, this would be an experiment since I'm really not into EVs right now. My favorite daily driver would be a G63 AMG but I really don't want to lease one (too expensive) and when the offers get more interesting, they will sound like crap anyway. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You will love it. Enjoy 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    How about something different...Polestar 2

    This guy drove thousands of miles in Model S/3 and he loved this Polestar 2. According to him it's as good/better in everything except of course the Supercharger network.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwD50F_RWw

    Many positive reviews about this car around there.

    The car looks really good IMO.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC, all you need is a transportation device, a Tesla fits that bill perfectly. A basic, no frill thing that gets you from point A to point B. 

    It's a perfect job for an EV. 

    This used to be the territory for diesels, but EV has taken over that segment.

    You can run it to the ground without feeling sad. 

    You clients might have some comments if they see a Tesla parked out front when they visit you though.

     


    --

     

     


     
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