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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:
    lukestern:

    Regarding Autopilot... Think this video show some interesting details about how advanced the system already is today and the hardware already is out there in customer cars.

    Even if this version shown in the video still is an internal Tesla build not released for the customer cars yet, it will be in a few months.

     

    The system is and will remain a fatal risk. They should stop calling preliminary driver aids „autopilot“. It is a trap for stupid consumers.


    A car in the first place is a fatal risk. More for some than others and we all know that there are people focusing on the wrong things while driving instead of focusing on the roads. Probably why we have accidents every minute around the world and I'm pretty sure that a bunch of these accidents would be eliminated if more people had the Tesla system in their cars.

    Tesla have had their issues with Autopilot and that can be debatable how they have handled it, but looking forward they seem to be on to something that will save more lives instead of the opposite. Great development if you ask me. It's a feature I would not want to be without on my commute to work, that for sure after having got used to it.

    Cars that are not equipped with Auto emergency brakes are more dangerous. Still amazes me that Porsche doesn't have this standard on all cars in 2019. You have to order Adaptive Cruise Control to get it.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The use of phones in cars is getting worse and worse. People pay less attention to the road. And semi autonomous systems will only make this worse until a fully automatic systems comes up.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    @scifrog sentry mode will use some additional power; maybe it is activated in your car . I did some unscientific tests and found consumption and battery capacity pretty much in synch


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The use of phones in cars is getting worse and worse. People pay less attention to the road. And semi autonomous systems will only make this worse until a fully automatic systems comes up.

    Tell me about it: We had a Ford Expedition Max during our last Florida trip (Orlando and Miami in April) and my kids were able to easily look inside other cars and 90% were texting or whatever during driving, it was like a viral disease. Smiley What is wrong with Americans? I see similar stuff in Germany but not to this extent. Americans use their phones while driving 80 mph on the highway, are people nuts? Smiley I get it, long stretches of roads at same (monotonous) speeds but one split second of not paying attention is enough to cause a catastrophe. Smiley

    There are so many warnings in the US to not text and drive but I get the feeling that last year maybe 50% were texting and driving and now there are kind of 90%. Smiley Insane.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    same shit everywhere...


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    xander71:

    same shit everywhere...

    My suggestion: Take the license. On the spot. They will learn eventually. More than 5 seconds a phone in your hand while driving? Good-bye driver's license. 

    In Germany, it is forbidden to even touch the phone while you're in a car with a running engine, even at a stop light. Does it help? I don't know but at least people get a 100 EUR fine and one point on their license (eight points are the maximum) if they're caught.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    here in UAE it is a disease as well, everybody has a phone in hands and eyes on it. with cars going into crazy direction...auto pilot will be a safe add to this mess. looking forward to the Tesla facelift.

    when these cars will correct the luxury side and the range, they will be on a proper shape to stay alive for a long time. almost there.kiss I expect Porsche to deliver that very soon.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    In Ontario we get a $1,000 fine with a three-day licence suspension and three demerit points for getting caught using a phone in any way while driving (outside of stuck on the dash and used as a map). 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Personally, I think if someone holds the phone in the hand and reads it while driving he should get his driving licenses revoked. It is a criminal act, while purposely putting others in danger!

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Many states have cellphone bans that require using handsfree devices; however, most believe that doesn’t apply to texting, the more preferred means of communication.   It is bad and only getting worse, especially since some think their car is self-driving.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Fully agree with what has been said about cell phone usage in cars. Let me add that modern head units with touch screens can be equally distracting and their functions should be limited to a small subset while driving. Everything else can be voice controlled. Now back to Tesla which unfortunately does not have a Car Play integration


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CarPlay would be nice for handling the messages. But the Nav and the rest is good enough. The Tesla even has a browser angry

    I cannot get the latest update to show up. Both locations where the car rests has not so great cell service so it will not trigger.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I always get the newest versions quite early because of a problem with LTE reception (on 2019.12 now).  Tesla support thinks that it can be fixed this way (but can not).  Car is on WLAN when sitting in the garage, so that may help. Agree, that the Nav is ok and the SOC predictions are always spot on. I wish they would not only show the SUCs but also other charging points. Opening sites like  https://www.plugshare.com in the Tesla browser can be of some help, which is the only reasonable use case I found so far.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Audi e-tron customers face more delivery delays, fines for canceled orders: report

    https://apple.news/AXOV7cnjRQKKCnVIilsLtlA

    If Tesla did this, we would have to read though pages of how unfair it is...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Hahaha...you are soooooo right


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I tried to pre-order yesterday a VW id.3. Hideous registration process. You had to open a VW account, then start the pre-order process, then they asked you to open a VW FS bank account, which you had to confirm by email. After the email confirmation, it started all over and you ended up at the link where to wire 1000Euro to VW.

    Well - it sounds easier as it has been. Those various servers crashed multiple times. After 2 hours I mastered it and wired 1k to VW. I got an email confirmation that the money is on the account and blocked for the car pre-order. BUT - until now (24h later) I still didn't get any pre-order confirmation. I can't manage my account and I have no clue if I even will have a pre-order at all. I called VW and they just said "we are working on it please wait" 

    Long story short. The German car manufacturer overengineered this process and didn't expect that the 30.000 cars they offered for pre-order will really be sold within 2 hours. 

    I will see if I get a car or not... stay tuned 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The thought of Volkswagen, or any other large automaker, attempting to emulate facets of Tesla is ludicrous.  Not even sure why they even attempted to do this; however, as the industry transitions to electric vehicles, the automakers are having difficulties determining demand.  

    I believe that there is a bit more to the Norwegian Audi e-tron story and that the individual ordered an e-tron.  Most contracts have termination clauses with penalties.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There could be more to the story... And Tesla has been slow repaying the deposits apparently. But at least you can pay with Apple and order a car completely specced in minutes.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    There could be more to the story... And Tesla has been slow repaying the deposits apparently. But at least you can pay with Apple and order a car completely specced in minutes.

    Don't forget that established automakers such as Volkswagen have dealer networks that must be addressed legally when implementing new sales technology.  In the States, for example, the dealer network is very powerful at the state, and even at the national level, over the manufacturer.  The manufacturers, however, claw back some of that power with strict enforcement of the franchise agreements including maintaining a certain corporate image with retail outlet design.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Ranking of cars registered in Switzerland for the beginning of 2019 :

    1. VW Golf

    2. VW Tiguan 

    3. Skoda Octavia 

    4. Tesla Model 3  , 1866 units  ( on a population of 8 millions ) 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Some more first hand real ownership feedback.

    Finally updated to the latest software, autopilot works smoother and the phantom brake issues is still there but less obtrusive.

    Real battery usage: driving exactly the same way as with my other cars (ie with a few hard accelerations to properly test the car), my long daily commute with a mix of city, suburban roads with a lot of high speed stop/go, clear highway and congested highway yields a real usage of 400mwh/miles. That gives me a 10-90% reasonable range of exactly 200 miles. This measure is using the battery %, not the kWh usage counter which seems to underestimate the real power used (this apparently has to do with usage when the car is idle, phantom draw and some theory about the real capacity of the battery being dependent on the yield of draw of the power, the higher draw, the more losses).

    So in the worst of winter, I should always get at least 140 miles of range which is good enough and a KEY metric for my usage (well I could use the RRS too if needed be, but having two vehicles to drive in winter an an absolute must for backup).

    Now this is why the Etron and the iPace range are a deal breaker for me:
    The Etron EPA range is 204 miles for 0-92%, so 222 miles for 0-100, then apply the 200/295 X EPA range ratio from my first hand experience, that gives exactly 150 miles. In winter, this will drop to 90 miles at worst, and that is a huge issue, I could not buy that car.

    The iPace is 234 miles for 0-100% (?), so apply the same 200/295 ratio and you get a real world usable range of 159 miles, 96 miles in winter. That is also a deal breaker.

    Of course all the above is based on the low range measured by the EPA, but until we have more real world data, it would be impossible to commit. One thing for sure is that between 45 and 65mph on the highway, the Teslas are very very efficient, and I have zero doubt I could get more than 295 miles in normal weather conditions if needed be, but I would hate driving so slow. Please also note my ratio includes 22” wheels, range will increase for all these cars if you use smaller wheels (maybe 5%). But 22” looks much better.

    To wrap up the range comments, an ideal daily driver for me would have a real usable 10-90 range of 250 miles instead of 200 so I could do more than one round trip and a couple of errands. The new long range model S is a hair below that, a future 120+kwh Model X with the increased efficiency of last month would be there, even with 22” wheels. Also note that all the EPA range probably turn off radio and AC/heat and is done in close to perfect weather conditions.

    The coolness factor does not wear off, pedestrians stop at crosswalks to let me go by and I can see the looks of people are very curious and I see a lot of smiles.

    The car is “agile”. The steering is tight on the sportiest setting, the car is really fast in acceleration and changing lanes, and taking over cars on the highway is a breeze, even better than the Macan (I would describe it as effortless when doing the same with the Macan, you would have a screaming vacuum cleaner). In the city the silence is quite something, almost eerie. On the highway, road noise mitigates that effect tough. Is it sporty in tight corners? No. But is does corner flat. Anyway there are no roads I use that have the characteristics where I could truly use a sport car. As a daily driver, the handling is perfectly adequate.

    The interior is holding up well so far, I like the sophistication of the volumes, especially the door, and the materials selected are not leather, but in some ways as nice as what you find expect in the most expensive luxury cars. There are no exposed plastic that your hand touches, and the natural textured wood is a real pleasure to the touch.

    Last, the car gives a confidence level while driving that I have never experienced in other cars. I find myself using the car to pick up my kids when needed when before I used to take Ubers. There is an ease of usage that I do not find in my other more sporty cars, I feel way more relaxed and less pressured, this is probably a combination of no noise and more space via the large interior and all the glass around you, probably also the fact that there are no buttons is soothing in some ways. You do not feel oppressed like you could in other cars. The UI is almost perfect, very Apple like and will not require to read a manual. It just all makes sense. You can move around sub-screens with you finger and they resize automatically while all the other screens adapt perfectly to your change.

    I see our family owning an X for quite a long time, there is simply no other 7 seater on the market today or coming in the next 3-5 years that comes even close to it. Even for people who don’t need the extra seats, the large space and confort are very enjoyable for a daily driver. The EV is just the cherry on the cake.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    WOW, SciFrog - this experience sounds overwhelming. We are thinking of getting an X, too. So far I always could stay away because of its Build quality. But it seems, the car is fulfilling all those hopes I would have in it. My neighbor has his Model S for many years. He just got his Tesla 3. He tells me the same experience you are telling. 

    Thanks a lot for the write up - I think I just got a step closer to a Tesla!!!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Happy to read that you are pleased with the purchase of your Model X.  However, comparing cold weather performance of the Tesla to the Audi and even the Jaguar should only be done cautiously as different designs will result in different performance in cold and hot weather.  Currently, there are not enough Audi e-trons in the use, outside of Audi, to make an assessment of that vehicle's performance.  

    Don't forget that the EPA, and class action attorneys, only care that the EPA test results reported by the manufacturer do not significantly overstate performance.  Likewise, with conventional fueled vehicles, automakers have an incentive to portray the real world fuel consumption as close as possible because that is factored into that manufacturer's corporate average fuel economy statistics with possible fines if the fleet doesn't meet that standard.  On the corollary, it would be prudent for a manufacturer to present conservative range numbers to alleviate potentially disappointed consumers who did not factor in the weather effects of range.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Lars997:

    WOW, SciFrog - this experience sounds overwhelming. We are thinking of getting an X, too. So far I always could stay away because of its Build quality. But it seems, the car is fulfilling all those hopes I would have in it. My neighbor has his Model S for many years. He just got his Tesla 3. He tells me the same experience you are telling. 

    Thanks a lot for the write up - I think I just got a step closer to a Tesla!!!

    Just read a review on the Model 3 today (AMS). They confirmed a range of approx. 270km in cold weathert. That would be about 170 miles. Maybe Teslas are best suited for warm regions but not so much for regions with more volatile temperatures.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Here's an interesting article about an usual issue with older Teslas.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/27945/a-single-component-can-brick-older-teslas-and-tesla-wont-fix-it  Ford, a few years ago, had a similar issue with its immensely popular F-150 pickup trucks and failing ECUs; no replacement parts available for a relatively new vehicle.  Customers became irate and Ford was forced to reopen a line to produce that ECU for its service network.  

    Tesla's issue is another reason why other automakers rely on a more modular approach to their vehicles' electronics network.  Sometimes, there is something said about having previous experience with consumers during the product development cycle.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This affects every manufacturer in different ways. My Ferrari has been waiting for a part since January for example. My Q7 spend over a month in the shop to fix some body issues, which turned out not to be the original issue at all.

    The above article is clearly an issue. Tesla should address this in time though. I will try to learn more on Tesla forums about it. Ideally they would upgrade the whole central computer but cost might be an issue.

    The Teslas are not built as well as Porsches or Mercedes, but the point is they are good enough IMHO. I have mentioned a panel gap that would not come out of VW factories, also the screen rebooted once by itself out of nowhere. I also have two intermittent rattles. Service would take care of it, but I do not have the time to schedule it yet. Totally can live with it, after all the sunroof of my Cayenne rattle for two years and they could never fix it.

    I would recommend some serious test drive before anyone committing to a Tesla. They are probably not for everyone yet and I would not own only EV today, you need other things in the garage. But for the ones who like something different, they should give it a try.

    On another note, being able to use fast lanes on the highway has already saved me quite a lot of time... the RRS is going to collect dust for a long while.

    PS: some might call me a Tesla fanboy but I try to depict the good and the bad of my experience without any pre judgement.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     

    On another note, being able to use fast lanes on the highway has already saved me quite a lot of time..

    Hi,,,, did not understand ?? why did the fast lane save you?


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:
    Lars997:

    WOW, SciFrog - this experience sounds overwhelming. We are thinking of getting an X, too. So far I always could stay away because of its Build quality. But it seems, the car is fulfilling all those hopes I would have in it. My neighbor has his Model S for many years. He just got his Tesla 3. He tells me the same experience you are telling. 

    Thanks a lot for the write up - I think I just got a step closer to a Tesla!!!

    Just read a review on the Model 3 today (AMS). They confirmed a range of approx. 270km in cold weathert. That would be about 170 miles. Maybe Teslas are best suited for warm regions but not so much for regions with more volatile temperatures.

    Great tip - thanks! 

    Majorly I would use the EV for commuting to the airport twice a week (one way 100km). So - the 200km range is all I would need. Also, Zurich and Stuttgart Airport are now having chargers, so it should not be an issue at all. All other drives are around 50km a day when home. Maybe a weekend trip to the lake or the mountains here and then but again - max 200km a day. And the one or two times a year I would go for a longer ride, I would have to bare with the supercharger infrastructure. I actually think I will have less hassle with filling my car as I have with petrol. In front of the house I have a wall box and the car would always be charged. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Lars997:
    MKSGR:
    Lars997:

    WOW, SciFrog - this experience sounds overwhelming. We are thinking of getting an X, too. So far I always could stay away because of its Build quality. But it seems, the car is fulfilling all those hopes I would have in it. My neighbor has his Model S for many years. He just got his Tesla 3. He tells me the same experience you are telling. 

    Thanks a lot for the write up - I think I just got a step closer to a Tesla!!!

    Just read a review on the Model 3 today (AMS). They confirmed a range of approx. 270km in cold weathert. That would be about 170 miles. Maybe Teslas are best suited for warm regions but not so much for regions with more volatile temperatures.

    Great tip - thanks! 

    Majorly I would use the EV for commuting to the airport twice a week (one way 100km). So - the 200km range is all I would need. Also, Zurich and Stuttgart Airport are now having chargers, so it should not be an issue at all. All other drives are around 50km a day when home. Maybe a weekend trip to the lake or the mountains here and then but again - max 200km a day. And the one or two times a year I would go for a longer ride, I would have to bare with the supercharger infrastructure. I actually think I will have less hassle with filling my car as I have with petrol. In front of the house I have a wall box and the car would always be charged. 

    The rest of the AMS review was quite positive. So if 200km/day are enough the car might be an interesting test Smiley

    The Taycan is too much for what you need, right? I was shocked by the pricing ("turbo" will be around 150k Euro). But technically it will be the best product, of course. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla's Model 3 electric motor is a clever mystery box, says auto experts

    https://apple.news/AdyNX8A6pTAiP2AC82AkgbA

    The Taycan will be the best built, best interior, best handling EV out there, for a price of course. After all Porsche has been successfully building sporty/luxury cars for decades and they always deliver in terms of real world measures.

    Since it is still a prototype, price, confort, infotainment, true performance and range remain a mystery.

     On some highways, if you have an efficient vehicle, you can use lanes that are reserved for carpooling, they are less congested. Sometimes, it can save a lot of time...


     
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