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    Re: M3 and M4

    I know many don't like the sound of the M3/M4, but I got a chance to rev one up yesterday and it was brilliant! It's not a V8 obviously but it has it's own unique sound and in certain rev range there is a raspiness akin to the old E46 M3. I'm not going to be too unhappy with the sound as a daily driver.  


    Re: M3 and M4

    Seen some recordings on YouTube and it sounds pretty good! Not the same as hearing it in the metal of course. It's going to be an awesome bit of kit for the money, that's for sure Smiley . Must try and bag a drive in one - my dealer owes me a favour or two having cocked up our 335D order! Smiley


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: M3 and M4

    Were you allowed to drive it Wayne?


    Re: M3 and M4

    A friend is interested in the M3 (sedan) because it is a very stealth car. With all the options he wants, the car is almost 100k EUR (99k something). Dealer is ready to provide 5% rebate (I guess this is going to get better after 6-12 months). Final price of the car is 95k. Ouch. Now he may go with a slightly used Mercedes C63 AMG Edition 507...for only 70k EUR.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: M3 and M4

    C&D comparison of the M4 vs. the 991 Carrera from the latest issue:

    (M4 on the left)

    1404835279144photo 1.JPG

     


    Re: M3 and M4

    1404835367037photo 2.JPG


    Re: M3 and M4

    photo 3.JPG


    Re: M3 and M4

    Thanks for posting - great comparison. Especially the 0-100 / 0-130 times are significant. But also looks like the M4 they had is a very good example (like usual when BMW donates a test car angry)

    Certainly its faster with that much more BHP.... a comparison to the Carrera S would be nice!

     


    Re: M3 and M4

    The 911 seems to be a manual one...


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: M3 and M4

    Domination by the 911. 80hp down and with manual gearbox. WTF! heart How much did BMW pay to stage such a silly comparison? angryThe M4 won on rear seats and more features (deduct 12 points from the BMW and you get the sports car score instead of family car score).


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: M3 and M4

    But what's most significant is that Porsche has to think about their future engines... the flat-6 is now no longer a better LB PER HP rating... this is concerning and due to the twin-turbos of course.. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: M3 and M4

    bluelines:

    Domination by the 911. 80hp down and with manual gearbox. WTF! heart How much did BMW pay to stage such a silly comparison? angryThe M4 won on rear seats and more features (deduct 12 points from the BMW and you get the sports car score instead of family car score).

    If you don't count much faster acceleration, usable rear seats or value for money, the Porsche wins for sure. Smiley


    Re: M3 and M4

    JoeRockhead:
    bluelines:

    Domination by the 911. 80hp down and with manual gearbox. WTF! heart How much did BMW pay to stage such a silly comparison? angryThe M4 won on rear seats and more features (deduct 12 points from the BMW and you get the sports car score instead of family car score).

    If you don't count much faster acceleration, usable rear seats or value for money, the Porsche wins for sure. Smiley

    Likewise, if you don't count much better brake/steer feel, handling, ride and above all fun to drive, then the BMW could be an option for sure Smiley

    As I wrote, it is family car vs sports car. Deduct the family options and the BMW does not look that impressive anymore. Because it is nothing more than a high powered mass produced family car Smiley Yes, it accelerates faster and with 80hp advantage, 40% more torque and dual-clutch it should. Then again, If you want pure acceleration then there are plenty of US options that are fast(er) in a straight line.

    I am very surprised a base Carrera with manual could put up such a fight against the new M3/M4 with dual-clutch. Is the BMW better value for money? Well, if you want family car the Porsche is the wrong choice. If you want a sports car it is the right choice.

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: M3 and M4

    bluelines:
     

    I am very surprised a base Carrera with manual could put up such a fight against the new M3/M4 with dual-clutch. Is the BMW better value for money? Well, if you want family car the Porsche is the wrong choice. If you want a sports car it is the right choice.

     

    The difference in acceleration numbers weren't close beyond 0-100 and a PDK in the 991 wouldn't have changed that all that much. Smiley The Porsche is a purer sports car for sure but I suppose if someone wanted a pure sports car alone they would buy a GT3, so comfort and ergonomics are relevant in this comparison. You can't have it all in one car without some sacrifices.


    Re: M3 and M4

    According to trustworthy magazine like german Sport Auto new M4 is faster in acceleration then 991CS with PDK. 


    Re: M3 and M4

    The figures above already indicate that it is faster than a 991 CS. If you want a fast accelerating car go for the BMW. Personally I care less about straight line acceleration and more about driving feeling, handling and fun. The above figures show that putting a big engine in a family car does not result in a well handling a fun sports car. This needs to be built from bottom up. 


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: M3 and M4

    Really?

    And excellent drive dynamics can be provided only in rear engine layout?

    If someone at Porsche marketing is reading your posts they can at least send you a bottle of Porsche Sekt since you are such a brand devotee.


    Re: M3 and M4

    KresoF1:

    Really?

    And excellent drive dynamics can be provided only in rear engine layout?

    Yes. No.

    Read the test above. Chassis score for M4 vs 991. You keep talking about tests showing that the M4 is faster in straight line than the 991. I believe that and I have no issue with that, because this figure is not much relevant to me. I also believe that the 991 handles better. That does not mean that excellent driving dynamics can only be provided in rear engine layout. Where did you get that from? Did IQ drop around here recently?

    Then again, what is all that power necessary for when you have no traction? Out of coincidence an E92 M3 pulled up next to me at the traffic lights. It has been pissing down all day and the road is beyond wet. When it turned green I heard his engine rev up, so I floored it... that is how mature I am Smiley The rev built up, the PDK engaged 1st gear and with a split second hesitation the four wheels got traction and with a jolt the car leaped forward. 2nd gear shift at full throttle, a slight jolt and when passing ca. 80km/h I looked in the rear view mirror... the M3 was still down at the traffic lights, wiggling its butt trying to take off with no grip.

    That is real world. No test. No numbers. Just a superior all weather sports car Smiley

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: M3 and M4

    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    Really?

    And excellent drive dynamics can be provided only in rear engine layout?

    Yes. No.

    Read the test above. Chassis score for M4 vs 991. You keep talking about tests showing that the M4 is faster in straight line than the 991. I believe that and I have no issue with that, because this figure is not much relevant to me. I also believe that the 991 handles better. That does not mean that excellent driving dynamics can only be provided in rear engine layout. Where did you get that from? Did IQ drop around here recently?

    Then again, what is all that power necessary for when you have no traction? Out of coincidence an E92 M3 pulled up next to me at the traffic lights. It has been pissing down all day and the road is beyond wet. When it turned green I heard his engine rev up, so I floored it... that is how mature I am Smiley The rev built up, the PDK engaged 1st gear and with a split second hesitation the four wheels got traction and with a jolt the car leaped forward. 2nd gear shift at full throttle, a slight jolt and when passing ca. 80km/h I looked in the rear view mirror... the M3 was still down at the traffic lights, wiggling its butt trying to take off with no grip.

    That is real world. No test. No numbers. Just a superior all weather sports car Smiley

     

    What is your problem?

    Did you forgot what you wrote to me in AMG GT thread? That I have "911 allergy"... And you forgot what you wrote how important are rear seats in 991? And in M4 case rear seats are not important?

    Be little bit consistent in your opinion.

    Why are you constantly using personal insults here:"911allergy" and "drop of IQ" for example? 

    I ordered 991 Turbo and really love that car but, members like you are degrating rennteam since kind of attitude thay you have was not welcome here some time ago...


    Re: M3 and M4

    The comment about the Porsche sekt was not personal then? 

    Dude, let's just agree to disagree wink


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: M3 and M4

    bluelines:

    The comment about the Porsche sekt was not personal then? 

    Dude, let's just agree to disagree wink

    I was commeting your apparently big devotion to Porsche as a brand in my "sekt" remark. I must admit that you are bigger Porsche fan then me.Smiley

    And we do not disagree at all when it comes to drive dynamics. 991 is far superior car in all important drive dynamic merits to M4 or even to some mid engine sportscars, IMHO.

    But... Are things that are important to you and me also important to all members here? Maybe someone can live with M4 compromises for far less money? Is someone who would buy and M4 really IQ deficient? Think about it... 

    For the record I would not buy an M4 but, I respect what it offers for its price.


    Re: M3 and M4

    I'm staggered the steering feel of the 991 is given 9/10.  I would give it 6


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: M3 and M4

    Once I decide to not participate anymore in driver's trainings, I would be very eager to look into buying an M3/M4. I have already enjoyed reading the sportauto supertest lately and I think that BMW has done a great job here. Still, up until these 30 % or else of my driving habits change, it will be a P. for me all the way. There are already many cars out there with better straight line performance than my 325 hp 997, but I could not care less...


    Re: M3 and M4

    Re M3?M4 and the M4 vs 991 Carrera..

    BMW is UNDER stating M engine output. US Customer M3/M4 cars are dynoing at 424bhp at the rear wheels! And thats on crap Califonia pump gas. See: http://jalopnik.com/the-true-power-of-the-2015-bmw-m3-revealed-in-dyno-run-1603070524

    So for a base 991 to even get near a 460bhp BMW 3 or 4 in acceleration shows how important getting power to the road is. I guess there is a reason why F1 cars continue to have the engine behind the cockpit.


    Re: M3 and M4

    JimFlat6:

    Re M3?M4 and the M4 vs 991 Carrera..

    BMW is UNDER stating M engine output. US Customer M3/M4 cars are dynoing at 424bhp at the rear wheels! And thats on crap Califonia pump gas. See: http://jalopnik.com/the-true-power-of-the-2015-bmw-m3-revealed-in-dyno-run-1603070524

    So for a base 991 to even get near a 460bhp BMW 3 or 4 in acceleration shows how important getting power to the road is. I guess there is a reason why F1 cars continue to have the engine behind the cockpit.

    Can't wait for the AWD M5. Porsche figured out a while ago that the high torque from turbo motors needs traction.


    Re: M3 and M4

    GR:

    I'm staggered the steering feel of the 991 is given 9/10.  I would give it 6

    Yep 6 at the most, but the bar has come down so far across the industry.  There really is not a single car made today with outstanding steering feel (outside of some cottage industries like Caterham), so 9/10 in today's market means nothing to me.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: M3 and M4

    no point arguing M3 vs 991 imo.  completely different cars.  neither one could replace the other completely in terms of driving "feel", handling at 9/10ths, practicality etc.  and not a lot of people cross shop the two as 991S costs so much more in Oz.

     

    my M3 is coming in 2months time (thx to my buddy - fellow member WAY kiss), its replacing my ALL TIME fave 997.2 GT3.... I love that car to bits, but growing family doesnt allow me to selfishly indulge....  maybe one day I would buy another 2nd hand .2 GT3RS.... 

     

    I am not expecting the M3 to be a GT3 replacement in anyway ( or even a 991S replacement), you would be kidding yourself. but it;s probably the best "sporty" 4door sedan sensible money can buy.   for what it offers and the performance, it's a bargain, especially next to the M5/ M6 GC.

     

    of course, final judgement until I actually get it.....  this will be my first DCT car. Can't wait smiley


    --

    BMW 1 M + C63 (gone).   997.2 GT3


    Re: M3 and M4

    Woolfe:

    Were you allowed to drive it Wayne?

    Sorry just saw this. Officially no I wasn't allowed to drive it because the cars will not be launched locally till later this month. However I was told to stay back after the event, and was given a drive but only briefly.  Can't tell you much about how it drives aside from it being fast in acceleration!


    Re: M3 and M4

    derder:

    no point arguing M3 vs 991 imo.  completely different cars.  neither one could replace the other completely in terms of driving "feel", handling at 9/10ths, practicality etc.  and not a lot of people cross shop the two as 991S costs so much more in Oz.

     

    my M3 is coming in 2months time (thx to my buddy - fellow member WAY kiss), its replacing my ALL TIME fave 997.2 GT3.... I love that car to bits, but growing family doesnt allow me to selfishly indulge....  maybe one day I would buy another 2nd hand .2 GT3RS.... 

     

    I am not expecting the M3 to be a GT3 replacement in anyway ( or even a 991S replacement), you would be kidding yourself. but it;s probably the best "sporty" 4door sedan sensible money can buy.   for what it offers and the performance, it's a bargain, especially next to the M5/ M6 GC.

     

    of course, final judgement until I actually get it.....  this will be my first DCT car. Can't wait smiley

    Dude I've been following the RS scene because I'm keen to pick one up too. Prices are going up but I still have not found the right car!


    Re: M3 and M4

    We already have a golden M4 driving around in my town (Germany) and the local dealer has another one in the same color in stock. Also saw a white one a couple of days ago on the road.

    I didn't get to drive one yet since my local dealer knows that I'm a Porsche (sportscar) guy and he doesn't seem to be too eager to offer a test-drive but I could push it...if I had the time to.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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