Crown

50th Anniversary now on UK configurator

sfo:

50th Anniversary now on UK configurator

So- don't keep us in suspense - are you configuring? 

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

sfo:

50th Anniversary now on UK configurator

So- don't keep us in suspense - are you configuring? 

50th Anniversary not for me .. don't want racing suspension, racing tyres or any of the 3 special colours

but still very much at the front of my mind

been looking for a pic of the standard exhaust for a while .. finally saw one today

ISUK: alfa works exhaust mod video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCiNJnvTHrQ

I don't mind the factory race exhaust I have fitted. I think it sounds better than the Quicksilver in that video. It is fairly easy to drive around the drone point as well as it occurs over a fairly narrow speed range. If I was driving the car everyday it may be different but for occasional use I like the rawness it gives. I will likely give Alfa Works a call at some point just to try their 4C demo to see what difference their suspension mounting blocks make to the steering.

I was at my Porsche dealership to take a test drive in a GTS they were offering me a surprisingly very good trade deal on with my 991S and got the opportunity to drive a 4C spider.  The dealership has just become an Alfa dealership and have two spiders on the lot so couldn't pass up the chance.

Holy crap what a fun car to drive!  I really didn't have high expectations, I thought it was a pretty car in the metal (pics really don't do it justice) but wasn't expecting too much based on the reviews.  Perhaps this car had an alignment because I had no issues with the steering, in fact coming from my 991 the steering was one of the high points.  It was refreshing to be in a car where even driving 30mph can be fun.  Obviously a very, very different car than the 991 or my old 997.2.  I wouldn't likely DD the car or take long cross country trips in it, but for sheer fun it was a real joy.   At times it sounded like a rally car and in race mode was quite lively.  It had its quirks or course, sitting in the passenger sit the environment controls dig into my legs, and because of my height I can't see the speed readout on the dash.  The interior is what it is, the radio is humorous, but I can't imagine you can hear much from it anyway with as loud as the car is on the inside.  But I actually fit with a little headroom and now am really pondering picking one up.  

As for the GTS, yes it was better than my 991S in a number of small ways, and I really really like the looks, but even with the deal I can't really justify the switch.  I'll drive the 991.2, but what I really want is a Cayman GT4RS.  I just hope they make one...

  The 4C is hugely entertaining from low speeds and as a weekend toy is hard to beat. I don't see anyone making such a driving experience focused car again. When I sat in my GT4 at the dealer last week the cabin felt like I was in a luxury GT even though I have the folding bucket seats in it. Getting back home and jumping in the 4C for  a quick comparison it's cabin feels much more special as it is way lower to the ground, has just the right amount of space inside, gets the balance between being stripped out but not feeling bare just right and gives you the experience of being in something mid engined and exotic.

Probably even beats the GT4 for value 

It really is a special little car.  I have been blabbering on about the test drive all weekend.   Like you say it does get the balance right on being minimal on the interior but still feeling exotic.

Yes, for what you get, the price is hard to beat, just don't tell bluelines  

Glad you guys are appreciating the benefits of light weight and driver focus over outright speed.  

Going to try and drive my Elise back-to-back with an Alfa 4C in a few weeks.  Should be interesting.  Will provide some comments vs. my GT4 as well.

lexs4:

Yes, for what you get, the price is hard to beat, just don't tell bluelines  

Yes, the 4C is special. But it is not insane. Like the GT4. 

On that note, a silver 4C drove by my office the other day and it sounded like a muted fart. I guess it needs a sports exhaust to sound good? Because this did not sound good at all... 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

SciFrog:

Probably even beats the GT4 for value

Not even comparable  A carbon fibre soap dish powered by a family car 4-cylinder and reliable like a Simca 1100 LS. Wohoo! Value for money.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

The race exhaust sounds great so the one you heard probably had a standard set up. GT4 is without doubt in a different league to the 4C but you would expect that as Porsche have had 10 years to hone and refine the Cayman across it's various model generations. Alfa put the 4C into production in double quick time on a shoe string budget by comparison. If they allowed the platform to live on and be further developed they could make significant strides with it I've no doubt.

This is worth a watch.

Top Gear Chevrolet Corvette Stingary vs Alfa... by Sky-Lyne

bluelines:

SciFrog:

Probably even beats the GT4 for value

Not even comparable  A carbon fibre soap dish powered by a family car 4-cylinder and reliable like a Simca 1100 LS. Wohoo! Value for money.

The 4C is convertible, that alone would tilt me towards the Alfa

SciFrog:

bluelines:

SciFrog:

Probably even beats the GT4 for value

Not even comparable  A carbon fibre soap dish powered by a family car 4-cylinder and reliable like a Simca 1100 LS. Wohoo! Value for money.

The 4C is convertible, that alone would tilt me towards the Alfa

Boxster Spyder. Check. Mate.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

For how much more money though?

in the UK at least, Spyder and 4C Spider are about the same price 

but of course no more Spyder slots left

SciFrog:

For how much more money though?

We are talking value for money here, or? Because otherwise the 4C looks pretty expensive next to a Mazda Miata.

The additional money the Boxster Spyder asks over the 4C needs no justification. The howling 3.8l flat-six over the farting 4-cylinder engine in the 4C is alone more than enough. The 4C is a bold idea from Alfa, mostly due to an exotic chassis and cool design, but it is not comparable to the top-of-the-line mid-engined cars from Porsche when it comes to handling, quality and reliability IMHO. Hence value for money, hands down to the Spyder or the GT4.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

sfo:

in the UK at least, Spyder and 4C Spider are about the same price 

Just checked here in Switzerland. There are 24 Alfa 4C Spider (plus 46 coupe) for sale and the new price is about 30% less than a Boxster Spyder.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

I think buying a Porsche has many parallels to when your wife buys an expensive handbag or you buy designer sunglasses.  Suddenly this designer makes a new model that has nearly the same features as its other models, but at 75% of the price.  That is the GT4.  Feels like a very good value but maybe not to someone who buys $100 sunglasses.  Point is: hard to describe value when it comes to luxury goods.  

In the U.S., the 4C Spyder is $75k and a comparable Boxster Spyder is about $20k more. 

If you want to talk value, Mustang GT350 has well over 500hp and flat-plane crank for $55k.  Just saying. :D

...and that Mustang is worth how much in 10 years?  $10 if you sell with a full tank.

I count value for money during the entire ownership. A car which you can sell for more or less what you paid adds much to that "value for money". Not only will you enjoy the car, but you might also not loose much money (or even make money). Several of Porsche's GT cars count to this category, possibly the Spyder too. The 4C? It does not look like that with 70 cars on the Swiss market and prices dropping. You can get a 1 year old 4C for 20% under new price. Lotus, nah. Mustang, haha.

I have always been a huge Lotus fan, but after that mediocre 7:59 time for the Evora 400 I don't know what to think. Lotus is supposed to build well handling cars, but this lap time makes no sense for a small:ish mid-engined car with 405hp/410Nm  A 355hp 997.1 Carrera S managed this time over 10 years ago.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

lexs4:

Yes, for what you get, the price is hard to beat, just don't tell bluelines  

Yes, the 4C is special. But it is not insane. Like the GT4. 

On that note, a silver 4C drove by my office the other day and it sounded like a muted fart. I guess it needs a sports exhaust to sound good? Because this did not sound good at all... 

Ha, ha, I should never have doubted the GT4 .  A  gentleman was picking up his white Boxster Spyder while I was at the dealership, I was a tad jealous.   I'm guessing the sport exhaust does make a huge difference on the Alfa as the one I drove had it and it didn't sound like it had a flatulence problem...

Due to some excitement in my younger days I need PDK, so sadly a GT4 or Spyder is out.  That's why I hold out hope for a PDK GT4RS.  While it likely won't be as pure as a GT4 it will be just the car for me.  

bluelines:

...and that Mustang is worth how much in 10 years?  $10 if you sell with a full tank.

I count value for money during the entire ownership. A car which you can sell for more or less what you paid adds much to that "value for money". Not only will you enjoy the car, but you might also not loose much money (or even make money). Several of Porsche's GT cars count to this category, possibly the Spyder too. The 4C? It does not look like that with 70 cars on the Swiss market and prices dropping. You can get a 1 year old 4C for 20% under new price. Lotus, nah. Mustang, haha.

I have always been a huge Lotus fan, but after that mediocre 7:59 time for the Evora 400 I don't know what to think. Lotus is supposed to build well handling cars, but this lap time makes no sense for a small:ish mid-engined car with 405hp/410Nm  A 355hp 997.1 Carrera S managed this time over 10 years ago.

$10?  Maybe you are unfamiliar with the popularity of Shelby and Boss models.  It will hold its value better than a standard 911 Carrera for sure.  Even the prior gen Boss 302 is still selling for good money 5 years later.  The only thing that could tank GT350 values is how many they build for MY2017.  Right now people are paying $10-15k over MSRP for them.  I expect that to end in 2017.  2015  GT350s are already collectors items because that is the anniversary year for the Mustang.  Let's also not forget that in actual races, GT350s are beating GT4 Club Sports right now.

11 years ago, I bought my Lotus for $42k.  Values have been steady around $30k for the last 5 years.  Consumables like brake rotors are half the price and last twice as long as cars weighing 3000+ .lbs.  Yet another benefit of light cars.  To heavily track a Porsche (and even the Evora) is in a different league financially.  If you are interested in an Alfa, buying used seems the best bet.  I suspect values will become steady. 

The Evora 400 lap time is indeed puzzling, the only thing I can think of is N-ring speed limits and lack of development on the ring.  Lotus does not develop their cars for that track.  There is a difference between handling and grip.  But still!

I love my GT4--worth every penny.  It does everything well and I'm putting miles on it more quickly than any car I've ever owned.  Does it feel like a "race car for the road"?  Not to me.  Too refined.   I even daily drive mine.  My Elise is probably 5 seconds slower per 2 minute lap than my GT4 around my favorite track here in California (Buttonwillow).  But it's just as engaging at the track (other than long straights).  Why?  The car asks so much more of the driver.  You feel a lot more through the steering and the chassis.  Just look at how busy Christian Gebhardt is in the Exige V6 than the GT4, despite the Exige being 10 seconds slower than the GT4 around the Ring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-W5a44Q99c

My point is this: when you drive cars like the Alfa 4C (and Lotus, Caterham, Ariel, etc.), the experience is very intense and the laptime becomes less relevant.  I like having the choice in my garage depending on my mood.  ​Neither car can replace the other.  

For $20k more than the 4C the Spyder shows well... I would still pick the Alfa with no hesitation. Why? Same idea as above. For a manual toy, I want light, convertible and raw feel even if imperfect, and cheaper is to consider too. The GT4 will always be in the shadow of the 997 GT3 RS. The spyder in that regard is more unique but it is not light enough.

vantagesc:

My point is this: when you drive cars like the Alfa 4C (and Lotus, Caterham, Ariel, etc.), the experience is very intense and the laptime becomes less relevant.  I like having the choice in my garage depending on my mood.  ​Neither car can replace the other.  

This is of course the ultimate setup  I wish I had them all too, a garage big enough and spare time to drive them all whenever I want 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

SciFrog:

For $20k more than the 4C the Spyder shows well... I would still pick the Alfa with no hesitation. Why? Same idea as above. For a manual toy, I want light, convertible and raw feel even if imperfect, and cheaper is to consider too. The GT4 will always be in the shadow of the 997 GT3 RS. The spyder in that regard is more unique but it is not light enough.

We are all driven by personal choices  My personal choices have 10 counterarguments for your's, but such is the nature of personal choices.

So when are you getting your 4C Spyder?

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

get the 4c it is fun, fast, unique, and much more exotic than caymans, not saying better or worse, just different, and different is cool

993 c2

If we factor-in what 99% of the wifes would say - any cayman or Boxster would win hands down. there is no "comfort" in a 4C or Lotus although desirable for petrolheads