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    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Targa Tim:

    Excellent review!

    If the next gen Cayenne Turbo is in fact much lighter, then its acceleration and trunk space may make it a better buy for family use over the Panamera Turbo.

     

     

    The Panamera TT is over 2 tons. If you think the Cayenne will be dramatically lighter than the current one, think again. They might shed weight by removing some all terrain features that no one uses anyway, still nothing dramatic IMHO.

    Add this to the fact that they should raise Cayenne prices to come close to the Panamera, and that the current ones can be had right now for good discounts, and that it will be at least 18 months before you can get a FL Cayenne in your hands, the choice is easy IMHO. Current Cayenne TTS Smiley


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    The Cayenne Turbo/S may have a disadvantage regarding fuel consumption in the higher speed range because of the different aerodynamics. I bet that where the Cayenne Turbo S eats up 30-35 liters / 100 km, the Panamera Turbo consumes at least 5 liters less. Time will tell. Of course this still doesn't justify the higher price tag for the Panamera.

    The next gen Cayenne Turbo will NOT be more expensive than the current one, I doubt that Porsche can afford raising the price tag because of the stronger competition from BMW and Range Rover for example. I also bet that the next generation Audi Q7 and the next generation Mercedes ML/GL class get stronger engines.

    Adapting the Cayenne price range to the Panamera price range would be a HUGE mistake in my opinion. The Cayenne is still considered to be a family car, an exclusive one but still.

    The interesting part is: I heard that Volkswagen plans to offer a 500+ HP engine in the next generation Touareg, I suppose it will be the V12 from the Audi Q7.

    Time will tell but maybe I should consider myself lucky that I HAVE to wait another two years before I can make a buying decision.  


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    MKW:

    If I had a choice of a fleet four door car  WITH  a rear hatch AND  sedan ride height, I'd take an RS6 Wagon over the Panamera .

    It's most annoying that the former is not avail in the US.

    I'm waiting to test myself the Panarema and then decide between RS6 or Panamera 4s, but for me with two kids the trunk space is important so perhaps I'will not have choice! Smiley

     

     


    --
    Waiting 4 my 997 4S ...........

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Thanks for the review RC, very informativeSmiley

    Still can't get over the looks of the Pigamera though. I think my choice in this category would be the BMW Alpina B7, and it's a bargain at "only" 125 000 euro.


    --

    10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

    20 GOTO 10

    30 RUN


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    temm:

    Thanks for the review RC, very informativeSmiley

    Still can't get over the looks of the Pigamera though. I think my choice in this category would be the BMW Alpina B7, and it's a bargain at "only" 125 000 euro.


    --

    If they are so great and value for money the Alpinas, why only a handful are sold worldwide Smiley. Even in Germany people are scared to buy them because at resale no one wants them.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    The Alpina is still seen as a tuner nothing more, and everyone knows that a tuned car looses the value faster than the one left original. Also the Alpina give the sensation that the car had a hard life. So... nobody wants a car that was used too much therefore almost impossible to sell it. 


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    reginos:
    temm:

    Thanks for the review RC, very informativeSmiley

    Still can't get over the looks of the Pigamera though. I think my choice in this category would be the BMW Alpina B7, and it's a bargain at "only" 125 000 euro.


    --

    If they are so great and value for money the Alpinas, why only a handful are sold worldwide Smiley. Even in Germany people are scared to buy them because at resale no one wants them.

    The use of " " was my attempt at irony.

    Anyway, resale value is a good point, and if it is as bad as you say for Alpinas I would have had to take that into consideration. But here in Norway, where a BMW 335i costs 125 000 euro, I won't have to worry about the price of a B7 unless I won the lottery.

    Still wouldn't buy a Panamera thoughSmiley


    --

    10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

    20 GOTO 10

    30 RUN


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    temm:
    reginos:
    temm:

    Thanks for the review RC, very informativeSmiley

    Still can't get over the looks of the Pigamera though. I think my choice in this category would be the BMW Alpina B7, and it's a bargain at "only" 125 000 euro.


    --

    If they are so great and value for money the Alpinas, why only a handful are sold worldwide Smiley. Even in Germany people are scared to buy them because at resale no one wants them.

    The use of " " was my attempt at irony.

    Anyway, resale value is a good point, and if it is as bad as you say for Alpinas I would have had to take that into consideration. But here in Norway, where a BMW 335i costs 125 000 euro, I won't have to worry about the price of a B7 unless I won the lottery.

    Still wouldn't buy a Panamera thoughSmiley

    Last year I became interested in a D3 Alpina (more affordable) and on rennteam German members mentioned their terribnle resale interest even in Germany.

    We have high taxes on new cars here too (not as bad as before the EU) based on engine size and CO2, that are added to the sellling price. In Norway what are they based on? I am surprised to hear that because Norway is always in surplus with one of the highest GDPs in the world Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    i was considering a panamera turbo too when it first broke cover....however, by now the car simply does not attract me enough to take the decision. form my purposes, the X6M make far more sense and seems the more interesting alternative.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    RC, can you reply my messages in your messages box~Smiley


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    I would say the next generation Cayenne S Hybrid would be another good alternative.

    with Lithium ion battery, the electric motor produces at least 70 hp, and the Audi 3.0 V6 TFSI can produce around 430hp with a simple ECU mod from tuners like MTM. thats a combined total of 500hp and fuel economy around 25mpg! 


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    I drove the Panamera in the event Porsche set up this week at the Quail Lodge in Carmel, CA. I was initially critical of the car but over time its design grew on me. After this test drive I consider it the most important sports sedan ever designed. It's far superior to any Audi, S-class or 7-series out there. It is definetely a driver's car.

    Note to RC: yesterday in Laguna Seca I spoke with Porsche people re the Panamera and in particular the dash/windshield refelections of the burmester speakers' trim. They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 


    --

    _________________________________________________________ 

    A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6,  996 C4.


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    ADias:

     

    They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 


    Which means we have to pay extra to fix Porsche's mistakes. :)


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    ADias:

    I drove the Panamera in the event Porsche set up this week at the Quail Lodge in Carmel, CA. I was initially critical of the car but over time its design grew on me. After this test drive I consider it the most important sports sedan ever designed. It's far superior to any Audi, S-class or 7-series out there. It is definetely a driver's car.

    Note to RC: yesterday in Laguna Seca I spoke with Porsche people re the Panamera and in particular the dash/windshield refelections of the burmester speakers' trim. They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 

     

    I wouldn't call the Panamera "far superior" to the current BMW 7 series but it is an interesting product in this segment.

    Regarding the non-reflective trims: the trim alone doesn't seem to be the real problem, apparently the angle of the windshield curbation is. The dash reflection is very obvious and I don't like it, Porsche definetely has to do something about it.

    Another annoying thing I forgot to mention: when the engine is running and you're buckled up and you unbuckle the seatbelt, the engine stops ! I really hate this feature.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    reginos:
    If they are so great and value for money the Alpinas, why only a handful are sold worldwide Smiley. Even in Germany people are scared to buy them because at resale no one wants them.

     

    The problem is BMW, not Alpina. BMW's usually loose A LOT in resale value over here in Germany, the very first day you get a license plate. So the problem is not that people don't appreciate Alpina, they problem is that BMW cars usually loose a lot of resale value from the start. BMW 5 and 7 series drivers are also known for wanting a sporty look but not necessarily a big engine, so Alpina is really serving a small niche market, nothing more.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Awesome Review RC!

    Great to hear details from someone I can trust regarding his view!

    I'm looking forward to experience the Panamera on myself - cant wait for a test drive!


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

     

     

    Another annoying thing I forgot to mention: when the engine is running and you're buckled up and you unbuckle the seatbelt, the engine stops ! I really hate this feature.


    That's Ridiculous.....!


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Thank you ADias--it is good to hear this very positve review.  I have a close friend who also drove the Panamera at Quail Lodge this weekend and I am waiting for his review as well.  I will post his impressions...


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    intouch1:

     

     

    Another annoying thing I forgot to mention: when the engine is running and you're buckled up and you unbuckle the seatbelt, the engine stops ! I really hate this feature.


    That's Ridiculous.....!

    I am sure it's something the driver can de-activate easily.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    RC:
    ADias:

    I drove the Panamera in the event Porsche set up this week at the Quail Lodge in Carmel, CA. I was initially critical of the car but over time its design grew on me. After this test drive I consider it the most important sports sedan ever designed. It's far superior to any Audi, S-class or 7-series out there. It is definetely a driver's car.

    Note to RC: yesterday in Laguna Seca I spoke with Porsche people re the Panamera and in particular the dash/windshield refelections of the burmester speakers' trim. They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 

     

    I wouldn't call the Panamera "far superior" to the current BMW 7 series but it is an interesting product in this segment.


    I was tempted to test drive a 730d to see what is all about.

    It is an excellent car in all respects and anyone who enjoys a limousine should be happy to own a 7-series. BUT it is not a car for people who enjoy active driving. The car does not connect  with the driver's heart and feelings, it hasn't got soul, if you understand what I mean.

    Allegedly, the Panamera is a car for drivers, a Porsche amongst limousines. I expect to drive it next month and find out.

    From what I presume someone who is happy with a 6-series rather than a Porsche would prefer the 7series to the Panamera and vice versa.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    intouch1:

     

     

    Another annoying thing I forgot to mention: when the engine is running and you're buckled up and you unbuckle the seatbelt, the engine stops ! I really hate this feature.


    That's Ridiculous.....!


    Utterly ridiculous !!!!!!


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    reginos:
    intouch1:

     

     

    Another annoying thing I forgot to mention: when the engine is running and you're buckled up and you unbuckle the seatbelt, the engine stops ! I really hate this feature.


    That's Ridiculous.....!

    I am sure it's something the driver can de-activate easily.


    You can't even de-activate the stupid bip-bip sound of the seat belts anymore in the 911, so I would not be so sure that this can be done


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    reginos:

    I was tempted to test drive a 730d to see what is all about.

    It is an excellent car in all respects and anyone who enjoys a limousine should be happy to own a 7-series. BUT it is not a car for people who enjoy active driving. The car does not connect  with the driver's heart and feelings, it hasn't got soul, if you understand what I mean.

    Allegedly, the Panamera is a car for drivers, a Porsche amongst limousines. I expect to drive it next month and find out.

    From what I presume someone who is happy with a 6-series rather than a Porsche would prefer the 7series to the Panamera and vice versa.

     


     

    Since CR, the second half of the Rennteam founders, owns a BMW 750iL as a company car, we have a pretty good comparison with the Panamera. CR also drove the Panamera and the 4S experience is mainly based on his experience.

    The Panamera is great, no doubt about it but the BMW 750i/L is a different beast than the 730d. Even the 730d can be pretty fast in the right hands, we have a Nordschleife video of a BMW 7 series Diesel and you'll be surprised what CR was able to do with this car. If he ever decides to upload this video to YouTube...it is pure fun.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    reginos:
    RC:
    ADias:

    I drove the Panamera in the event Porsche set up this week at the Quail Lodge in Carmel, CA. I was initially critical of the car but over time its design grew on me. After this test drive I consider it the most important sports sedan ever designed. It's far superior to any Audi, S-class or 7-series out there. It is definetely a driver's car.

    Note to RC: yesterday in Laguna Seca I spoke with Porsche people re the Panamera and in particular the dash/windshield refelections of the burmester speakers' trim. They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 

     

    I wouldn't call the Panamera "far superior" to the current BMW 7 series but it is an interesting product in this segment.


    I was tempted to test drive a 730d to see what is all about.

    It is an excellent car in all respects and anyone who enjoys a limousine should be happy to own a 7-series. BUT it is not a car for people who enjoy active driving. The car does not connect  with the driver's heart and feelings, it hasn't got soul, if you understand what I mean.

    Allegedly, the Panamera is a car for drivers, a Porsche amongst limousines. I expect to drive it next month and find out.

    From what I presume someone who is happy with a 6-series rather than a Porsche would prefer the 7series to the Panamera and vice versa.

     

     

    Reginos: That's what I think. The 7-series is a great limo, the Panamera is a driver's car. For the record, I have a 750Li in the family's fleet.

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________ 

    A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6,  996 C4.


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    ADias:

    I drove the Panamera in the event Porsche set up this week at the Quail Lodge in Carmel, CA. I was initially critical of the car but over time its design grew on me. After this test drive I consider it the most important sports sedan ever designed. It's far superior to any Audi, S-class or 7-series out there. It is definetely a driver's car.

    Note to RC: yesterday in Laguna Seca I spoke with Porsche people re the Panamera and in particular the dash/windshield refelections of the burmester speakers' trim. They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 

     ADias,

    I also drove a Panamera S at the "Porsche Zentrum" by the Quail Lodge on Saturday afternoon.  Great fun!

    We got a pretty good work out going up and down that windy mountain (big hill?) road east of the event grounds (something or other "grade").  Our Porsche "minder" was pretty laid back and we got going well over double, but not triple, the posted limit in the curvy bits.  My wife only complained once (she's a sometimes track driver), so we didn't really risk the hardware, but gave it a good go.

    My impression is that the Panamera S sits half way between a 750 and a 911 in feel and personality.  Perhaps its technical performance is closer to a 750 than 911, but the feeling of driving on challenging roads puts it in a place not occupied by other 4 seat cars.

    Part of the sports feeling must be influenced by the low seating position.  One's body does not feel the tipping-over sensation that a higher seating position would generate, irrespective of body roll.  If one's head is lower to the pavement, there is a shorter pendulum arm to wag it about, even if one were riding on rails.

    The suspension seems very well behaved over irregular elevation changes combined with fairly tight curves -- as long as the Panamera S had the Sport suspension setting twisted all they way to firm.  If the damper control was turned to all the way toward comfort, there was less vertical control over the bums and dips where the car wanted to be light on its feet.  This caused a slight "Porpoising" feeling coming down the bumpy slalom portions of the hills.  I assume this was because the rear suspension unloaded pretty far on shock rebound and was extended more when it came time to compress again.  With the Sport setting going full guns, it was a pure pleasure to drive those roads.

    I was skeptical about how the Panamera would be to drive until I tried it myself.  I am now very impressed  --  impressed enough to want to purchase one.  And, it looks in person so much better than in photos.  The only disappointment of the day was the lack of a Turbo to drive.

    Here's a question lead-in:  I attended the Bentley Mulsanne pre-introduction party in conjunction with a whole bunch of media types.  My wife and I were being chatted up by some press guy and we mentioned the Panamera test drive.  He then said that the Turbo was a big let down for him, that it had too much power to easily control, and that the normally aspirated cars were much better to drive.  He then lost a certain amount of credibility with me when he said that the Jaguar XF-R was better to his way of thinking.  Who knows?

    So, what about the Panamera Turbo being too hard to modulate on the throttle to be a good canyon carver?  Inquiring minds want to know.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow

    2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray

    1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau

    2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Mike, what about the 612, Bentley CGT or DBS?


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Whoopsy:
    ADias:

     

    They are aware that the aluminum tgrim does cause that issue, but he pointed out that other non-reflective trims are available. 


    Which means we have to pay extra to fix Porsche's mistakes. :)


    There will probably be the usual   " Speakers wrapped in interior leather " $$$ option , I'm sure . Smiley


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Mike: I agree that the Panamera is better than a 750 and has 911 qualities. It is not a 911, for the obvious reasons, and it does not pretend to be one. I think though that it's more than seat position. The suspension, steering and engine response is grades above any other luxury sedan. The car is responsive, precise and fun, in a way that no other luxury sedan (including the 750) is.

    I doubt the Turbo has any problem. that comment you heard sounds like sour grapes to me. I think though that for a normal sports sedan use, the Panamera S with a SC and a few goodies is all that's needed. Nut then again, if one wants a Turbo... why not?

    I was cynical about this design when i first heard about it. No longer. They hit the ball out of the park.

     

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________ 

    A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6,  996 C4.


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

     


    I was tempted to test drive a 730d to see what is all about.

    It is an excellent car in all respects and anyone who enjoys a limousine should be happy to own a 7-series. BUT it is not a car for people who enjoy active driving. The car does not connect  with the driver's heart and feelings, it hasn't got soul, if you understand what I mean.


     

    I strongly disagree!

    Out of all cars I was driving and test driving the last 10 years the new 750i was probably the one which touched me most. Since that its up on the wishlist for becoming an successor of my 535.

    It might be, that the 730d was a standard equiped car, but this one is for sure not the car you should compare to a Panamera. The 750i I had, was equipped with dynamic drive and active rear axle steering. The car felt light, went trough the corners like a sports car and had enough power to convince.

    So for me, this car indeed touched my drivers heart and feelings and of course - I'm connected to it deeply!

     


    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Lars997:

     


    I was tempted to test drive a 730d to see what is all about.

    It is an excellent car in all respects and anyone who enjoys a limousine should be happy to own a 7-series. BUT it is not a car for people who enjoy active driving. The car does not connect  with the driver's heart and feelings, it hasn't got soul, if you understand what I mean.


     

    I strongly disagree!

    Out of all cars I was driving and test driving the last 10 years the new 750i was probably the one which touched me most. Since that its up on the wishlist for becoming an successor of my 535.

    It might be, that the 730d was a standard equiped car, but this one is for sure not the car you should compare to a Panamera. The 750i I had, was equipped with dynamic drive and active rear axle steering. The car felt light, went trough the corners like a sports car and had enough power to convince.

    So for me, this car indeed touched my drivers heart and feelings and of course - I'm connected to it deeply!

     

    Unfortunately, it's not easy to have access to a 750i here. Too expensive due to our taxation system on new cars. My impressions are specific to the 730d for sure.

    I respect your opinion although others here wrote the opposite views. Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

     
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