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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I want one! indecision  The only brand that's silently deeper in my heart than Porsche!


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I'm sure this won't be as complete a car as a Porsche. With all its carbon tub, lighter weight and sacrifices in terms of luxuries, I doubt it will be any faster than a Cayman S. Also I'm not sure I like the styling which appears too toylike.

    However, it's a good first small step from Alfa Romeo back to respectability. I hope it doesn't prove too little too late. 

    The only sure thing is that it will be liked by people who dream of Ferrari but cannot afford one.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I agree that it won't be as complete as a Cayman and probably also not as fast, but it's an Alfa Romeo and I really, really hope it is a new beginning for the brand. The engine used in the 4C is roughly the same as used in the Giulietta QV, which i've owned and it's great. Of course it will not be as refined as the flat 6 from Porsche but i don't mind.... I don't expect an Italian car to be as refined as a german car. The emotion of being an Alfa Romeo compensates it for me. Although it doesn't have the beautiful design of the 8C, which is IMO one of the best looking cars ever!

    Call me crazy, i could afford a 458 but I would choose this over a 458 in a heartbeat... I just love the brand. Even more than I love Porsche.smiley

    The first car that got me goosebumps all over at the age of 6 was an Alfa Romeo. It was the fully restored Montreal of my uncle, with its magnificent small V8. It's probably the one and only reason I became a petrolhead ;)


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I used to be an Alfista myself. My father had a 2000 Berlina and my first car as a student in England was a Bertone 1600 GT Junior. Wonderful car in all respects (strong twin cam engine, fantastic gear change and nimble handling) in which I did 2 trips from the UK all around Europe. BMWs or the time were far far behind, Meredes for old people and Audi non existent. The Montreal was a great car and emotional and it still looks up to date. The fake rear vents and the headlight grille covers were defining styling details.

    Then, Alfa let it all go. They destroyed what they had built within 10 years. I changed the GT Junior for a GTV 2000. It was badly developed in spite of its great spec and so badly put together that I finished with Alfa and turned to BMW which I despised in the past.

    if Alfa ressurect, I might choose one over a mainstream German brand, but not over Porsche.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    there is a Review in Auto Zeitung and they say the car is great fun


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    intouch1:

    there is a Review in Auto Zeitung and they say the car is great fun

    I have to say that for 50k EUR, this is an interesting and tempting offer but I don't know...my experience with italian cars (Fiat, Lancia) in the past has been very very negative.

    Also, I watched CH's video with the 4C testdrive and while he clearly enjoyed the car, I didn't have the feeling that he is overly excited about it. To say at least. Also, he didn't comment much on the gearbox, which kind of surprised me. Maybe he didn't like it at all... Smiley CH is clever. He knows that a very negative review would void future invitations to similar events, so he kind of lets the viewers read between the lines. At least this is my impression.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It will not be as refined as a 981, but it will be more fun to drive. The quality of the modern Alfa products is good. i've owned two recent cars (MiTo and Giulietta) and they were faultless and well build, although not the quality materials that  for example Audi uses. The fun will make up for everything the car lacks. No powersteering! Where can you find that these days!? :) 

    I think I want one...I'm actually pretty sure about it indecision  The only question is, do i buy one now or should I wait for the more powerful 4C QV that's coming. (According to my uncle: 300hp and mechanical diff.) just not sure when that car will come, but i've only owned QV models, so I guess I'll wait ;)

    Love the sound of the car BTW

    Here's an Autocar review  

    http://youtu.be/2RG7oCUekM0

     


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    If the 4C would have a removable roof, it would be a no-brainer. My wife wants a car/roadster, so I'm afraid it is going to be a Boxster or even 991 Cab because "just another" fun car doesn't make sense for us. Still...the 4C is kind of tempting. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

    Good to know. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I wish Porsche did a stripped back lightweight car like this with smaller wheels, no power steering but the fabulous flat 6 engine and 6 speed manual.  I'd want it much narrower than the Alfa too.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:
    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

    Good to know. Smiley

    Hopefully with a revised headlight design.


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Gauss:
    RC:
    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

    Good to know. Smiley

    Hopefully with a revised headlight design.

    Would be nice indeed... Although i'm almost starting to like them how they are now.

    Or is it just that I'm more forgiving because it is Alfa Romeo? Smiley  Smiley

     


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

     

     

    that's would be very tempting !


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    sfo:
    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

     

     

    that's would be very tempting !

    It will get a carbonfiber roof panel and there is no need to make much structural changes because of the CF monocoque stucture of the car. Stiffness will be roughly the same as the coupe.

    i also heard that there will be improvements coming up for the TCT software, regarding the gearchanges (especially the downchanging is not as crisp as it should be).

    BTW... You didn't get this info from me Smiley LOL


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:
    sfo:
    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

     

     

    that's would be very tempting !

    It will get a carbonfiber roof panel and there is no need to make much structural changes because of the CF monocoque stucture of the car. Stiffness will be roughly the same as the coupe.

    i also heard that there will be improvements coming up for the TCT software, regarding the gearchanges (especially the downchanging is not as crisp as it should be).

    BTW... You didn't get this info from me Smiley LOL

     

    targa is the way to go ... especially as the base car  will have been improved during its life cycle


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:
    Gauss:
    RC:
    SuzyF:

    The "targa" version of the 4C will be introduced in Q4 2014. (Probably together with the QV)

    Good to know. Smiley

    Hopefully with a revised headlight design.

    Would be nice indeed... Although i'm almost starting to like them how they are now.

    Or is it just that I'm more forgiving because it is Alfa Romeo? Smiley  Smiley

    Only explanation I can think of because that is definitely the design weak spot of this car. I just cant get past those hideous lights !!


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I used to detest the headlights .. they don't look so bad now, in fact, I almost like them as they are so unusual


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    So who is going to play the guinea pig and get one first? indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    This car is an alternative to Lotus Exige. I don't think it is an alternative to Porsche.

    People who buy the Cayman wouldn't find the 4C to be a complete car.

    A drawback IMO is that entering/exiting the car is quite difficult (more difficult than a Lotus) and this excludes most women who would like the looks and lots of corpulent males of the age who can afford to pay the high price.

    Moreover, people who are nostalgic about Porsches of yesteryear, light and basic, will reject it because of its DCT. Nostalgics hate anything other than manual.

    Alfa Romeo are clever to limit production and availability because this will guarantee meeting sales targets in the initial one or two years, at least.

    All in all, if I wanted a Lotus type of car, I would definitely try this Alfa. Otherwise, the 4C doesn't touch me at all.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I think I wait for the QV ;)  (or GTA... Don't know how they gonna call it)


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    This car is an alternative to Lotus Exige. I don't think it is an alternative to Porsche.

    People who buy the Cayman wouldn't find the 4C to be a complete car.

    A drawback IMO is that entering the car is quite difficult (more difficult than a Lotus) and this excludes most women who would like the looks and lots of corpulent males of the age who can afford to pay the high price.

    Moreover, people who are nostalgic about Porsches of yesteryear, light and basic, will reject it because of its DCT. Nostalgics hate anything other than manual.

    Alfa Romeo are clever to limit production and availability because this will guarantee meeting sales targets in the initial one or two years, at least.

    All in all, if I wanted a Lotus type of car, I would definitely try this Alfa. Otherwise, this doesn't touch me at all.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    That's exactly the point. Most people compare it with a Cayman, but it's a completely different car. The 4C is indeed more comparable with an Elize or Exige. They will initially build a total of 26000 in a 7 year lifespan. Or at least that is how Alfa has things planned.

    The fact that is is compared to a Cayman, does actually prove how good the car is. The 981 chassis is the best one out there, without much competition untill now.  Cayman is more refined and more luxurious, lotus is very basic and not very refined at all. The 4C fits in between Lotus and Porsche.


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Who is the target market, really? It is too expensive for people who buy GTi type of hot cars and OTOH too basic for people who can afford it but who are used to more mature products like the Porsche or the M3 etc.

    This leaves the Lotus segment which judging by the sales of Elise/Exige is not the biggest in the car market. The 4C could lure buyers away from Lotus and also tempt multi-car owners to add one to their garage. Perhaps, I'd like to have one if I could afford more than one sports car for myself.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    They will build a maximum of 3500 cars a year. 1500 for european market, 1000 for US and 1000 for other markets. The target market doesn't need to be big. 

    The car is a "new beginning" for the brand. The Spider will be the next car, built in co-operation with Mazda (MX5).  Next up is the Giulia, which will probably share a lot of components with the Ghibli.

    MiTo and Giulietta will be produced for at least another 3-4 years.


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:

    They will build a maximum of 3500 cars a year. 1500 for european market, 1000 for US and 1000 for other markets. The target market doesn't need to be big. 

    The car is a "new beginning" for the brand. The Spider will be the next car, built in co-operation with Mazda (MX5).  Next up is the Giulia, which will probably share a lot of components with the Ghibli.

    MiTo and Giulietta will be produced for at least another 3-4 years.

    Let's hope it turns out better than the ARNA car built in cooperation between Alfa Romeo and Nissan a couple of decades ago. Instead of combining Italian automotive flair with Japanese build quality and reliability they took a different approach and combined ............... you can guess the rest.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    Who is the target market, really? It is too expensive for people who buy GTi type of hot cars and OTOH too basic for people who can afford it but who are used to more mature products like the Porsche or the M3 etc.

    This leaves the Lotus segment which judging by the sales of Elise/Exige is not the biggest in the car market. The 4C could lure buyers away from Lotus and also tempt multi-car owners to add one to their garage. Perhaps, I'd like to have one if I could afford more than one sports car for myself.

    It will, like some  Abarth Fiat 500 owners here in the US market  ,  attract Ferrari type owners who want to drive a stylish fun to drive carbon tubbed mid engined ITALIAN sports car with legendary nameplate to work or the mall and park it anywhere , even congested urban core , and its cost to them will be pocket change. Its rarity on the street vs the ubiquitous Boxster/Cayman is a bonus.

    These  buyers have  no interest in very lightweight British style sports cars , i.e, Lotus , here in the US of A, esp since its owners, like many Miata enthusiasts , carry an underdog strident rather condescending attitude towards all who are non - believers in their grails.

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    MKW:
    reginos:

    Who is the target market, really? It is too expensive for people who buy GTi type of hot cars and OTOH too basic for people who can afford it but who are used to more mature products like the Porsche or the M3 etc.

    This leaves the Lotus segment which judging by the sales of Elise/Exige is not the biggest in the car market. The 4C could lure buyers away from Lotus and also tempt multi-car owners to add one to their garage. Perhaps, I'd like to have one if I could afford more than one sports car for myself.

    It will, like some  Abarth Fiat 500 owners here in the US market  ,  attract Ferrari type owners who want to drive a stylish fun to drive carbon tubbed mid engined ITALIAN sports car with legendary nameplate to work or the mall and park it anywhere , even congested urban core , and its cost to them will be pocket change. Its rarity on the street vs the ubiquitous Boxster/Cayman is a bonus.

    These  buyers have  no interest in very lightweight British style sports cars , i.e, Lotus , here in the US of A, esp since its owners, like many Miata enthusiasts , carry an underdog strident rather condescending attitude towards all who are non - believers in their grails.

     

    Ferrari lovers and fans of other things Italian might be attracted. But assuming that the majority will not track the car, they will soon get fed up with the rudimentary interior, the difficult access due to the high carbon tub sills, the tiniest luggage space and the unassisted steering.

    Alfa Romeo have produced this unusual limited production car to help them get back into the mainstream market. We'll see. I wish them good luck Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I've got a deposit down on one but don't expect to see it until the end of next year so that will give them plenty of time to resolve any issues. I've owned a lot of Alfas and always had a soft spot for them. I think Alfa's timing is perfect and they have tapped into a part of the market that is currently overlooked by nearly every manufacturer. As a weekend toy it will appeal to a lot of people who might otherwise have looked at buying a much older Ferrari (360 for instance) or Porsche 911. The Alfa offers them lightweight, modern tech but without being as stripped out as a Lotus, much lower servicing and insurance costs, better MPG etc. It's a car perfectly in tune with what enthusiasts are looking for - light weight, smaller size, no power steering, and a good power to weight ratio.

    With such low production volumes I think it will hold it's value really well for the first two or three years which will be important in building up the brand again.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I agree it is a nice effort to put the brand in the spotlight again. But the need to build a really good car. I like the different approach, after all, who cares about another Boxster and why try to compete directly...


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Its a curious mix of contradictions for me:  sophisticated chassis, unsophisticated engine; raw unassisted steering, no manual option; supposedly compact but really too wide; perfect in concept, not so much in reality.  Classically Italian perhaps and I fear a lost opportunity.  Alfa's sales targets confirm its a small market but its impact as a halo car leading to a new rear wheel drive, sporty saloon/estate/SUV product offensive is harder to judge.  BMW have become so mainstream and boring that there ought to be a market for those who want a premium car but need it to be practical with a proper dose of sporting engagement.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


     
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