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    Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

     F1 looks so much nicer!


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    palenimbus:

     F1 looks so much nicer!


    Guess I do not agree with you at all.Smiley


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    McLaren-MP4-12C_19.jpg

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    palenimbus:

     F1 looks so much nicer!

    I agree with you.The F1 looks a simpler, lighter and a more proportional  design.

    See how heavy the rear of the new car looks compared to the front. And the twin openings at the side don't help the fat rear at all. The wheels also look too small for the wheel arches.1269286371113mclaren-mp4-12c-2011-754478.jpg

    McLaren-MP4-12C_2011_1600x1200_wallpaper_04.jpg


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    IMHO the McLaren F1 now looks dated BUT it still looks very distinctive - it really looks like a McLaren.

    By contrast, the MP4-12C looks very up to date BUT it doesn't look distinctive or unique - you could change the badge and it could easily be mistaken for an Ascari or some other top-end sportscar.

    I also think the MP4-12C won't age well - IMO it will look dated within a shorter period of time than the F1.

    Just my very subjective 2 cents 


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

     OMG! Look at those rear view mirrors! They are hideous!

    Also this nordic gold colour is the only one where it looks really good. 

    Silver, black, white- they all look to plain to me.

    I also agree that the rear is to dominant.

    However, still a terrific car!

     

     


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    palenimbus:

     F1 looks so much nicer!


    +1 Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Tim:

     OMG! Look at those rear view mirrors! They are hideous!

    Also this nordic gold colour is the only one where it looks really good. 

    Silver, black, white- they all look to plain to me.

    I also agree that the rear is to dominant.

    However, still a terrific car!


    It's a shame that such great technology is wasted in such a design. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    No facelift anytime soon surely either...


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Rossi:
    Tim:

     OMG! Look at those rear view mirrors! They are hideous!

    Also this nordic gold colour is the only one where it looks really good. 

    Silver, black, white- they all look to plain to me.

    I also agree that the rear is to dominant.

    However, still a terrific car!


    It's a shame that such great technology is wasted in such a design. Smiley

     I don't think its a "great" design either but its not that bad. As a first try its great because it has the potential to become something really good.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Rossi:
    Tim:

     OMG! Look at those rear view mirrors! They are hideous!

    Also this nordic gold colour is the only one where it looks really good. 

    Silver, black, white- they all look to plain to me.

    I also agree that the rear is to dominant.

    However, still a terrific car!


    It's a shame that such great technology is wasted in such a design. Smiley


    I must admit that I am little bit supriesed with general comments about MP4-12C design here.

     

    Audi R8... I remember almost the same comment about R8 when it was introduced. "Oh, it wont age nicelly... Too much Ferrari in it... Audighini... " etc. Fact it that R8 is one of the best designs in last 10 years for sure. It still looks fresh, unique and interesting.

    Original Lamborghini Gallardo.... Maybe the best design in last 20 years IMHO. Just, again here on rennteam not liked enough... FL LP560-4 is still very good looking but for me original Gallardo is one of the kind.

    My opinion is that MP4-12C is very good design. Unlike many here think it will age better then some of its competitors.

     

    For example I think that Lotus Evora is interesting design. McLaren is British brand-it can not look similar to Ferrari, Lambo or Audi R8. MP4-12C use biturbo engine in midengine layout and most of its coolers are at the back-design here follows the function... Most of its exterior design elements are dictated by overall technical solutions in this car-unbelivabile that most members here(and most members here have a good knowledge) did not see that.

     

    Is it possible that for most members here think that only good designs are coming from Ferrari and Porsche???

    OK, Maser GT is another fame here(car that I personally like but, way tooo long IMHO).

     

    Ferrari and Porsche marketing departmens should be very happy with average rennteamer. He is very loyal brand costumer...


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Neither the MP4 nor the R8 are top designs. In their shape there is something that doesn't totally fit. Parts of the car don't  blend nicely with others. The proportions are not perfect too. The R8 Spyder is much better than the coupe because some awkward design elements had to be removed like the blades for example.

    For me the R8 is acceptable especially for a mainstream brand like Audi but the MP4 is unsuccessful for such a special brand and technology.

    The Evora in real life looks very insignificant, unfortunately and it cannot be considered in the context we are talking here.

    The various mid-engined Ferrari (except 348 perhaps) are very pleasing to the eye as is the Carrera GT. The 918 I haven't seen in real life yet. Callardo also has good proportions.

    It's a pity for McLaren who produce a new car every 15 years not to have come up with something better.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    KresoF1:

     

    Audi R8... I remember almost the same comment about R8 when it was introduced. "Oh, it wont age nicelly... Too much Ferrari in it... Audighini... " etc. Fact it that R8 is one of the best designs in last 10 years for sure. It still looks fresh, unique and interesting. [...]

    Is it possible that for most members here think that only good designs are coming from Ferrari and Porsche???


    Kreso, I think you´re a bit subjective here. Smiley

    Remember the discussions about the rear of 997 SC, Cayenne or Panamera. There certainly is enough to complain about. Nobody denies the beauty of the Aston Martins, the Pagani or the Murcielago. I agree however that people on this forum are quite hard to please regarding cars and a specialized crowd. We still don´t have to agree with everything that is said here.

    I agree that the R8 has not worn out as quick as expected and, in fact, has become a somewhat iconic car around here. The MP4 is simply different to look at since they incorporated the radiators in the rear which lead to the enormous air intakes and rear.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Ferdie,

    I admit, I was about 10% subjective in my post.

    For example I had long discussion with my friend who do not like 458 design at all. In his opinion proportions of 458 are wrong(way too long front overhang, too narrow rear wheels with too high sidewalls tires etc.). I disagree with him. Just... After checking out 458 recently in person I could honestly say this it looked more impressive on pictures then in person. Example that I checked in person was in traditional Rosso Corsa and while impressive car in total it is not unfortunately design masterpiece as I hoped. Still, it is overall an impressive design IMHO.

    In total honesty some details on 458 Italia are just plain wrong IMHO.

    McLaren MP4-12C is good rather then great design. As you correctly() pointed out it looks different mainly because of its technical design aspects. How well it will age? Almost as good as R8 I expect.

    R8 is very good design. My friend that I mentioned above thinks that R8 looks better then 458. BTW, he owns Panamera...

    918 Spyder... After saw it in person I can say-better then in pictures-still do not like it at all. ..and most members here thinks it looks great and fresh in design? Who is subjective here? Members who are Porsche fans or me?  At Geneva one Italian Gent from F LOL at Porsche stand when he saw 918. For a reason I could add. 918 is bigger in overall dimensions then McLaren MP4-12C for example(in true MP4-12C is only 10mm longer) with 20mm shorter wheelbase... In person it looks as strange as possible to my eyes. Yes, I am 100% subjective here. My comment is based on the fact that some people wrote that:"918 is tiny car..."

    All in all good thing is that we have here on rennteam such difference in opinion and that our debate is still very good and open.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Mclaren F1 is not "dated", it is a timeless NICE design. It was never the best looks-wise but has not lost anything.

     

    918 spyder is best new pure sportscar design in a long time.

     

    MP4-12C  is so similiar to 458 and Gallardo - variations of the cheese wedge, with 458 the best of the bunch.

     

     

    AM putting out the most pleasing line-up


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

     To put things into perspective:

    911: in its latest incarnation is absolutely beautiful. The shape is classic. It's timeless and Porsche would be ill-advised to make any drastic changes. It's not supposed to be flashy. It's a car you can live with every day, that just happens to deliver world-class performance. It's like a suit. It doesn't stand out, but it looks good. 

    R8: I really like this car. It's a mixture of German and Italian design cues. More exciting than the Porsche, but still usable as a daily driver. Overall it looks good, but the side profile is somewhat odd. 

    Gallardo: I loved this car when it came out. It's an edgy, in-your-face design. Only dislike was the back, but they fixed that with the 560. However, it's not really comparable to a Porsche or the Audi. It's more of a weekend toy unless you can live with the attention it will attract.

    458: another weekend toy in my book. The overall shape is adorable, one of the best recent Ferrari design, however the back is hideous in my opinion. The triple exhausts are just yuck! 

    Aston Martin: loved the DB9 when it came out. It's so elegant. Nowadays, however they all look the same to me.

    918: I like the interior, not so crazy about the exterior to be honest. I prefer the more elegant lines of the CGT- which in my opinion is still the best looking and sounding sportscar in recent years.

    McL: the car is beautiful, but somewhat bland. It has the Ferrari shape but has the design details of a Porsche. What works on a Porsche due to its unique shape doesn't quite work on the McL. It could be a Nissan. The rear looks odd to me- like it was stretched. It's still a masterpiece though.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    AM's - The DBS is their best regular prod. design ever imo, The Vantage V12 maybe their best car/value and close to DBS for design brilliance. The One-77 in shiny black will set a new standard for cool. The rapide is very nice for a sedan

     

    Study the difference between CGT and 918 especially from the side, CGT comes off as bland with its straight edge vs. the beautiful curves visible on the side profile of the 918 above the wheel wells. 918 is really a 906 more than a CGT.

     

    911 is comfortable

     

    This ain't dated imo

     

    dans f1.jpg


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    Tim:

     

    911: in its latest incarnation is absolutely beautiful. The shape is classic. It's timeless and Porsche would be ill-advised to make any drastic changes. It's not supposed to be flashy. It's a car you can live with every day, that just happens to deliver world-class performance. It's like a suit. It doesn't stand out, but it looks good. 

    Spot on Smiley

    R8: I really like this car. It's a mixture of German and Italian design cues. More exciting than the Porsche, but still usable as a daily driver. Overall it looks good, but the side profile is somewhat odd. 

    What spoils the R8 design is the huge front overhang especially in contrast to the short rear That "blade" also destroys the design flow that  true classic shapes always have.

    audi.JPG


     

    McL: the car is beautiful, but somewhat bland. It has the Ferrari shape but has the design details of a Porsche. What works on a Porsche due to its unique shape doesn't quite work on the McL. It could be a Nissan. The rear looks odd to me- like it was stretched. It's still a masterpiece though.

    Now that you mentioned Nissan,the first time I saw it I thought the shape would have been appropriate for the  "new Honda  NSX"


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    BTW, for your info R8 front overhang is 10cm shorter then 458 Italia front overhang for example. Even McLaren MP4-12C has little bit bigger front overhang then R8. Porsche 918 Spyder also has bigger front overhang then R8.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    KresoF1:

    ... After checking out 458 recently in person I could honestly say this it looked more impressive on pictures then in person.


    + 1 . It is one of the few cars that looks better on pictures then in the flesh. I liked the 458 a lot in the pics, even thaught I could consider it.....but in real it looks too soft, skinny with strange lines sometimes. It is still a good looking car, but way less impressive in real then the F430


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    KresoF1:

    BTW, for your info R8 front overhang is 10cm shorter then 458 Italia front overhang for example. Even McLaren MP4-12C has little bit bigger front overhang then R8. Porsche 918 Spyder also has bigger front overhang then R8.

    The important thing is how this profile looks. A question of overall proportions I suppose.

    The Ferrari and Porsche front look right, the Audi droopy and out of proportion.

    Of course it is just my own aesthetics  Smiley

     

    Ferrari_458_Italia_SIde.jpg1269361379408918-Spyder_07_1280x800.jpg1269361757900audi_r8_2_03.jpg


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    But for some reason the R8 Spyder looks almost perfect! The overhang is not so obvious and the shape is totally harmonious Smiley

    Audi-R8_Spyder_5.2_FSI_quattro_2011_1600x1200_wallpaper_0e.jpg


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    reginos:

    The important thing is how this profile looks. A question of overall proportions I suppose.

     

     

    1269361379408918-Spyder_07_1280x800.jpg

     


     

     

    Something I noticed before, the side body of the 918 is made up of a modern ice cream scooper (front) and an oil filter wrench (rear)

     

    front tire being the ice cream and rear tire the oil filter

     


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    AMEN to that Gnil! I do NOT get the same feeling around a 458 compared to 430. Period.

    The 430 like the 360 and testarossa and so on create EMOTION.

    458 looks more technical and less art. That's why I call it Japanese or Manga or simply a Lexus Smiley

     

    And a super car must stir emotions first. Just my two cents.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    The R8 Spyder has a darker color which makes the front overhang look smaller too...


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    R8 Spyder do not look good IMHO. Look at strange engine/hood cover bump. ...and lack of sideblades is not a bonus either.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

    KresoF1:

    Ferdie,

    I admit, I was about 10% subjective in my post.

    For example I had long discussion with my friend who do not like 458 design at all. In his opinion proportions of 458 are wrong(way too long front overhang, too narrow rear wheels with too high sidewalls tires etc.). I disagree with him. Just... After checking out 458 recently in person I could honestly say this it looked more impressive on pictures then in person. Example that I checked in person was in traditional Rosso Corsa and while impressive car in total it is not unfortunately design masterpiece as I hoped. Still, it is overall an impressive design IMHO.

    In total honesty some details on 458 Italia are just plain wrong IMHO.

    McLaren MP4-12C is good rather then great design. As you correctly() pointed out it looks different mainly because of its technical design aspects. How well it will age? Almost as good as R8 I expect.

    R8 is very good design. My friend that I mentioned above thinks that R8 looks better then 458. BTW, he owns Panamera...

    All in all good thing is that we have here on rennteam such difference in opinion and that our debate is still very good and open.


    My personal opinion? First of all both cars, 458 and MP4, are different for a reason. The unusual rear on both cars makes a much different impression on bystanders and, as you recently mentioned public perception in Europe, does come with a reason. I predict that both cars will be socially more accepted than cars such as the LP560 or 430. McLaren has found an own styling theme on its genuine cars (F1 and MP4 opposed to SLR) as Porsche has done on theirs, the appreciation will appear on a more rational level and not on the emotional one as on the Italians. That said, the 456 might be too technical and obviously lacking passion for some but that philosophy might be appropriate for the current sportscar market. That design direction has already been gone with the 599 and Enzo.

    I haven´t seen the 918 in reality so refrain to comment on that, can only add that it answers demands on the three important markets (Asia, Europe, North America) in terms of design and technology.


    Re: Side by side: McLaren F1 / MP4-12C

     Upon close consideration I actually think that the front part of the R8 is too small compared to the rest of the car. It looks like someone photoshopped the front of a different car onto the R8 and didn't properly adjust the scaling. You know what I mean?

    The cabin just seems massive compared to the front. Either it's too high or the bonnet is too low. That's what I meant about the weird side profile.


     
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