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    Apr 20, 2004 7:22:40 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
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    Reply to: Dimitris

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Dimitris,
    I am also looking for a more raw experience while I'm still young and without children. There aren't many responding to this group, as we have seen, because it isn't too profitiable. In the U.S., there is no accessible, mid-engined car, with Porsche GT3 like performance, built for the most hardcore of enthuisiasts like yourself, that is priced to sell. Too much to ask for, perhaps. Because of this, the GT3 might be one of the best values out there.

    Perhaps a Noble M12-like car is in the cards for you somewhere. Grant may be right about the Ford GT. They are selling too many of them for it to be a hardcore experience.

    Apr 20, 2004 7:24:16 PM

    Justin
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Already being dubbed the Lotus "Gallardo"

    Apr 20, 2004 7:38:39 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Would be cool if they can make it 2,500 lbs with 400hp+

    Apr 20, 2004 10:25:03 PM

    arakis
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    What the guy said in the begining. PORSCHE has forgoten about harcore fans. You can run awey from the trouth all you want, The fact that they bult VW tuareg(cayanne), and that they didnt race for 6 years now, and ngt racing is not racing.

    The gt3, gt3 rs, gt3, cgt are all nice, but Cgt is novere near the fame 959 had when it came out. Its a car that had compromised its performance by looks. I mean .39 cd and only 290 kg of down force. And thats all thanks to the stupid roof high pich angle in the back that CREATES ALOT OF UNESESERY lift and drag. I mean it performs well but amgine it it had a sloping roof line.

    Porsche has clearly maide up its mind money is everything heritige is nothing. You cant any more compere porsche of the 80 and the porsche of now.

    Im my opinion porsche should let VW take it over before porsche destroys it self. With VW in charge Porsche would ones again become a true sport car manufacteror.

    Ii mean seriosly you cant exepct me to belive that you feel good when you see a guy in acayanne with a VW v6 with the sam badge as your turbo, or in the future a 4 door sedan, OH I GOT IT Porsche wants to go back to racing DTM style

    Apr 20, 2004 10:47:47 PM

    Justin
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    Reply to: arakis

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Oh dear, now you've gone and bad mouthed the CGT.

    Porsche enthuisiasts...please keep sympathy in mind before responding. We needn't another scuffle.

    Apr 20, 2004 11:14:51 PM

    Dimitris
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Dimitris,
    I am also looking for a more raw experience while I'm still young and without children. There aren't many responding to this group, as we have seen, because it isn't too profitiable. In the U.S., there is no accessible, mid-engined car, with Porsche GT3 like performance, built for the most hardcore of enthuisiasts like yourself, that is priced to sell. Too much to ask for, perhaps. Because of this, the GT3 might be one of the best values out there.

    Perhaps a Noble M12-like car is in the cards for you somewhere. Grant may be right about the Ford GT. They are selling too many of them for it to be a hardcore experience.



    Hi Justin,

    young, with no children here either

    I drove the GT3 MK2 last week. A friend of mine bought one, a trully beautiful one. Slate grey with painted wheels. I know some people here will freak out but I found the suspension to be on the soft side. And the car was heavy. But the engine is a marvel. I need to transplant such an engine to my Boxster.

    Another issue with the GT3 is that if you start the mods the value of the car will plummet. That is because Porsche has already perfected it based on their specs. Let's say you replace the wheels with lighter ones. Then the suspension might not be anymore perfectly tuned. It is more like a product in a "can". A great product but not what I am looking for.

    I have the same feelings about the Ford GT like Grant. It sounds more like a marketing thing. I am sure it is not going to be hardcore. We will see when more people report some feedback. I do not have high hopes though ...

    Until then I will enjoy my Boxster. Great car if you decide to stay within the legal limits in the US ... Until something more to my liking arrives. Hopefully from Porsche

    Apr 20, 2004 11:15:37 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: arakis

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    Ii mean seriosly you cant exepct me to belive that you feel good when you see a guy in acayanne with a VW v6 with the sam badge as your turbo, or in the future a 4 door sedan, OH I GOT IT Porsche wants to go back to racing DTM style



    I wish people posting here would mention what car they drive in their profile.
    You're talking about "seeing", I'm talking about DRIVING. That's a huge difference. The truth is: I don't care if the Touareg and the Cayenne are actually the same cars.
    The Cayenne Turbo I own drives great, like a real Porsche SUV should. It is probably faster than most so called sportscars out there.
    Now here's the difference: I care about performance and drive feel and fun. Other people care about looks, design and...tradition. Tradition they actually don't have a clue about. The cooperation between VW and Porsche is almost as old as Porsche itself. I would be much more concerned about the Fiat/Ferrari connection.

    Fact is (and some of you so called hardliners, and I bet some of you don't even own a Porsche, don't seem to understand that): without the Cayenne, Porsche would be in serious trouble now. The money Porsche earns doesn't go only to shareholders, it goes to development too. Or to make it easier to understand: the more Cayenne Porsche sold over the past months, the better the 997 will get.

    It is somehow funny to read negative comments about Porsche performance from Boxster S and Cayenne S owners, sorry to say that. Buy a 911 Turbo, GT3, GT2 or whatever and buy a Cayenne Turbo and if you guys still aren't satisfied, buy a Lotus.
    Too expensive? That's life. Some people can't afford a Boxster S or a Cayenne S.

    I hate to say it but I get the feeling that some people don't really know what they're talking about.
    Drive the new GT3, drive the Carrera GT and drive a 996 Turbo with Powerkit and X73. And then, let's talk again.
    I'm not talking about track figures but real life performance and fun factor.

    I want more power and maybe a little bit less weight from Porsche, nothing more. Regarding design, suspension setup and other little things, I'm pretty happy with it, especially since I know how the 997 will look alike. They could do better regarding certain things, right. But this is nothing new.

    Porsche not racing anymore? I couldn't care more right now.
    Would I buy a Porsche because they've won a championship? Definetely not. I buy a Porsche because I like how it drives, how it feels and this is all what counts.
    Of course I'd love to see Porsche race their cars. But where does Ferrari actually race the Enzo, the 360 and the 612? The Formula One isn't interesting for me because when I buy a Ferrari, I don't buy Schumacher's car but an ordinary street car. How many parts do the 2004 Ferrari F1 car and the 360 or even Enzo have in common? Right. ZERO. Maybe you just got my point...

    Apr 21, 2004 12:36:44 AM

    Justin
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    Justin
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    RC,
    Just to play fair here, no one in this thread (besides arakis)ever commented that Porsche's top models aren't fun to drive, or doubted the objective performance as you have just described. In fact, this wasn't even the point of Nick's original post.

    To go a step further, wouldn't Porsche have been in serious trouble without the Boxster as well?

    Apr 21, 2004 7:43:52 AM

    FutchM
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    Futch
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Very well said Christian,
    I don't always agree with you 100% and I think you can be over enthousiastic sometimes, but all you wrote is very true to me too.
    It is important to feel and drive the car first.
    And also in terms of look, I still think Porsche is right up there, not the prettiest but so distinctive.
    I got stopped by a couple of young cops last week end in Paris, and they admitted later on that they just wanted to check out the car, I got out and we we chatted about it for a little while! Very cool! They then told me that such a car is pointless in Paris and that I should take it to the small country and mountain roads and thrash it into every gear to the redline Ahhhh, cops...
    But back to the point, Porsche is growing, extending its range, but there is still a lot to chose from for the hardore enthousiast (GT series, etc.)
    My C4C is perfect for me, I have never driven a more versatile car, it can do EVERYTHING! (Cruise, Track, etc..)
    As for Motorsport, I'd be happy to see Porsche back at Le Mans, I admit, maybe in the future, but wether they do it or not will not influence my decision on the next car.
    I don't think people buy Peugeots expecting the same thrills as the 206 rallye car.

    Apr 21, 2004 8:48:54 PM

    RCA
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    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    RC,
    Just to play fair here, no one in this thread (besides arakis)ever commented that Porsche's top models aren't fun to drive, or doubted the objective performance as you have just described. In fact, this wasn't even the point of Nick's original post.

    To go a step further, wouldn't Porsche have been in serious trouble without the Boxster as well?



    Well, maybe you should check Nick's older posts on Rennteam.com.

    And yes, you're absolutely right: without the Boxster, Porsche wouldn't exist as an independent company anymore.
    The Cayenne was just a similar "lifesaver" as the Boxster, with the difference that the Boxster really saved Porsche's "bu.." but the Cayenne just saved future model development and probably Porsche's independence for the next 10 years.

    Apr 21, 2004 9:00:48 PM

    RickJK
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    RC - Interesting points on both sides, but I was wondering about your comment about the C4S Cab v the Boxster S. I made the mistake of changing an order I placed for a Porsche in 2000 from the Boxster S to a 996 cab. I made the mistake of ordering the Tiptronic transmission, and that was my fault, but beyond that, I found the bias of the handling towards understeer to be something I could not overcome. I maxed out the front camber, and increased the rear swaybar size, but unsatisfied, I traded the car in six months later, and am now back on a waiting list for ordering a 987 S.

    Does the S version 996 have less understeer built in than the base version, or do Porsches for domestic consumption have less understeer than US models?

    Anyway, I think that my background of my favorite car I've ever owned being a 914 must bias my taste.

    Besides the 987 s, I am also waiting for a Lotus Elise right now, so I should be able to slake my mid engined tastes fairly well between the two. Then I just have to buy my 914 back from my brother in law and drop a 993 engine in.

    Best wishes!!

    Apr 21, 2004 9:12:22 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: RickJK

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Rick, the Boxster S and the 996 have changed a lot since 2000. Porsche always "updates" their models, even if they don't announce it officially. The 996 C4S is a different story, it uses the suspension system of the 996 Turbo, it is clearly superior to the Boxster S, even if heavier. The 2000 996 Cab is again a different story, I agree.

    I always said that people who love to drive a Porsche, not only to own one , should go for a GT3. Of course I also like the 996 Turbo/Turbo Cab and the GT2 but the GT3 is a class of it's own and a very refined car.
    The facelifted 996 C2/C4 and the C4S are very nice sportscars too but they make compromises.
    The Boxster is another story. It is a nice car, the current models are highly refined and very fast but we shouldn't forget that the Boxster and Boxster S are Porsche's entry-level models. They're not designed for racing and even if they feel and drive great, they're not a 911.

    Apr 21, 2004 9:33:16 PM

    brunner
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    Reply to: RickJK

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    Does the S version 996 have less understeer built in than the base version, or do Porsches for domestic consumption have less understeer than US models?



    I don't know about the C4S, but on a regular Carrera the ROW030 suspension cancels the understeer pretty good. I suppose the x74 one is even better, it is said to dial in some oversteer, too.

    Apr 21, 2004 10:59:42 PM

    arakis
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    RC said:
    But where does Ferrari actually race the Enzo, the 360 and the 612? The Formula One isn't interesting for me because when I buy a Ferrari, I don't buy Schumacher's car but an ordinary street car. How many parts do the 2004 Ferrari F1 car and the 360 or even Enzo have in common? Right. ZERO. Maybe you just got my point...


    550 races in fia gt,alms, lemans, 575 races in fiagt, alms, lemans, 360 races in fiagt,alms, lemans. The enzo is about to race in fia gt as the maserati Mc12

    The semi-automatic gearbox is directly derived from f1, so is the aerodinamics, of almost all ferrari cars, oh yea so is the suspension, and the brackes, in other words alot of stuff.
    In gt3, turbo and gt2 is the engine is the civilised version of the gt1 race engines. In other words if you want to keep up in the supercar league you need to race. As for what car I own thats simple none. which isnt that bad for a 21 year old student in Serbia.

    As for the porsche Vw conection, it great but it would be (IMHO) alot beter if it had the same conection as fiat and ferrari have, ferrari does whati it wants and fiats pays and colects the money. If you are struguling to stay independant you are bound to make disisions that will have its impact on the porsche badge. I say scr^w indipendance, let make sports cars.

    Apr 21, 2004 11:07:17 PM

    arakis
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    Reply to: arakis

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    I never said Porsche top models are not fun to ride, or that they are not fast, all i said is thay are not the top that porsche cam make, I said that the good old porsche saing "Form folows function" went to the bin with carrera gt.

    By the way that quote I heard on dicovery chanel super car show, werea porsche engenier stud infton of 1997 gt1 and said the abouve quote, and also said that porsche and motorsports are one and the same and that porsche will never abandon motorsports. I guess that guy ate his foot now

    Apr 22, 2004 11:19:09 AM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: arakis

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    and also said that porsche and motorsports are one and the same and that porsche will never abandon motorsports. I guess that guy ate his foot now



    Ever heard of the Supercup?

    Apr 23, 2004 2:30:10 AM

    lev
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Guess what the best selling Porsche is today. It is very

    Few weeks ago I was driving (around afternoon) in my wife Cayenne in Toronto downtown and saw a women driving 4s 996...very very fast and taking pretty smooth from the lights. I decided to check if its manual trans or not, I got closer and took a glance it was automatic... So may be its not the young generation some of the guys mentioned here but the other part of world population getting into our world :-)
     
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