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    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Gnil:
    Kozzoloz:

    I havn't had any issues with my PZeros but I am about to replace my rear tires.  I havn't heard a lot of good things about the PZeros N0, so "upgrading" to the N1 or switching to MPSS has been something I am considering.

    My questions is, I only need rear tires at this time and if I went with the MPSS I would swap out all 4, but if I decide on the N1s would it be a bad idea and unsafe to have N0 on the front and N1s on the back until my fronts need replaced?

    Thanks.

    They look like completely different tires . I would not mix them . Always use 4 same tires .

    X2

    Not only are you using very differently worn tires front vs rear since the rears will be new (I myself swap all 4 tires even if the fronts are not full worn out) but as Gnil says they are different tires, even the tread pattern is different and can lead to unprecitable behaviour in certain situations.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Carlos from Spain:
    Gnil:
    Kozzoloz:

    I havn't had any issues with my PZeros but I am about to replace my rear tires.  I havn't heard a lot of good things about the PZeros N0, so "upgrading" to the N1 or switching to MPSS has been something I am considering.

    My questions is, I only need rear tires at this time and if I went with the MPSS I would swap out all 4, but if I decide on the N1s would it be a bad idea and unsafe to have N0 on the front and N1s on the back until my fronts need replaced?

    Thanks.

    They look like completely different tires . I would not mix them . Always use 4 same tires .

    X2

    Not only are you using very differently worn tires front vs rear since the rears will be new (I myself swap all 4 tires even if the fronts are not full worn out) but as Gnil says they are different tires, even the tread pattern is different and can lead to unprecitable behaviour in certain situations.

    Appreciate the input, I may swap out all 4 regardless then.  Now its just the decision of NO, N1 or MPSS.  I have yet to hear a negative comment about people who went from Pzeros to the MPSS.  Better traction in wet, less road noise and tread ware.

    Though, like you have stated Carlos I hate moving away from a tire that is N rated.  Maybe the N1s all around is the way to go.


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Carlos, quite messing around and playing a guessing game. Immediately involve your dealer AND Porsche and see what is the recommended course of action considering the hazardous conditions the tires are exposing you to. Tire safety is not something to be trifled with.enlightened


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    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Kozzoloz:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Gnil:
    Kozzoloz:

    I havn't had any issues with my PZeros but I am about to replace my rear tires.  I havn't heard a lot of good things about the PZeros N0, so "upgrading" to the N1 or switching to MPSS has been something I am considering.

    My questions is, I only need rear tires at this time and if I went with the MPSS I would swap out all 4, but if I decide on the N1s would it be a bad idea and unsafe to have N0 on the front and N1s on the back until my fronts need replaced?

    Thanks.

    They look like completely different tires . I would not mix them . Always use 4 same tires .

    X2

    Not only are you using very differently worn tires front vs rear since the rears will be new (I myself swap all 4 tires even if the fronts are not full worn out) but as Gnil says they are different tires, even the tread pattern is different and can lead to unprecitable behaviour in certain situations.

    Appreciate the input, I may swap out all 4 regardless then.  Now its just the decision of NO, N1 or MPSS.  I have yet to hear a negative comment about people who went from Pzeros to the MPSS.  Better traction in wet, less road noise and tread ware.

    Though, like you have stated Carlos I hate moving away from a tire that is N rated.  Maybe the N1s all around is the way to go.

    The N1 is the newer version of the N0 so I would not hesitate to get the N1 instead of the N0. Not only because of the personal expereince I have had with the N0 but also because of the info Kreso has shared.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    nberry:

    Carlos, quite messing around and playing a guessing game. Immediately involve your dealer AND Porsche and see what is the recommended course of action considering the hazardous conditions the tires are exposing you to. Tire safety is not something to be trifled with.enlightened

    They can't do anything, the tires are not damaged or faulty per se, its all my subjective expereince on the performance of these tires. I don't hold Porsche or much less the dealer responsible, the tires are crap, thats up to Pirelli. 

    The only thing I can do is to change them for another model, the problem arose when there was nothing to choose from in N rated tires for the 991, I blame Porsche for not homologating other models like Michelin though, but at least the N1 are available now, and while unfortunately its stilla Pirelli, the fact that its diffrernt tire, even up to the thread pattern gives me some confidence that they will be better, afterall why would they change the tire completely if the N0 was a good tire already, they had to make a new Pzero because the N0 was crap IMO.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Carlos, I am not saying you should place blame. Rather you should characterize the problem as individual to you, your car and tires. Let someone from Pirelli be brought in possibly by Porsche. You never know the problem could be related to a bad batch of tires  and unfortunately you got one of them. At the very least Pirelli may work with you on a new set of tires.

    Do not assume you will be ignored nor take the position that this model tire is bad. Just have them check it out and expressed your safety concerns regarding your set of tires and not the entire model range.

    I am giving you advice from which I have years of experience in. I know what works and what doesn't.kiss​​​​​​​


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    I appreciate the advice Nick wink but it would be more time and trouble for me than its worth.

    I'll just change them after the summer and get the N1's kiss .. hopefully those will be up to the minimum standards that I'm used to from a high performance tire on a 911.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    It's really weird that Carlos found the PZeros lacking in the rain.

    Normal complaints are about the PZeros lacking in hot grip but has better wet grip in the wet than Michelins. Which is like the case since forever as Pirelli has compounds that works slightly better at a colder temperature and damp condition than Michelin, which sacrifice a few degrees on the cold side to preserve performance on the hot and dry side.

    Pilot Super Sport did not change that focus either. But I guess there are always exceptions. 

     


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    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    fritz:
    Gnil:

    As a side note, isn't their anything a fit fishy about the PSS not being N rated ?  As Ferdie, mentions, the PSS was developed on the 997.2  and all the mules at the time were fitted with those . 

    I can't believe the best road tire from Michelin can't be N rated .......  yes

    I have long wondered about the lack of a recommendation and OEM production release for Michelin PSS tyres for recent 911 models. 
    In view of Michelin being the tyre sponsor for motor sport activities and the long relationship between the two marques it seems weird that they would not have been able to eliminate any technical problems which might initially have delayed the release. I suspect that it is now more of a political problem resulting from commercial differences or a personality clash somewhere. 
    If so, it's a shame the customers have to suffer for it. 

     

    Indeed. Interesting to add that he was very enthusiastic about the Super Sport on the 997 when I spoke to him personally but very "cautious" in his communication regarding that subject via email. Smiley

    I also wonder whether Michelin would use a car with such uncommon weight distribution and handling characteristic if they don't intend to offer the tire for that specific model.


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Whoopsy:

    It's really weird that Carlos found the PZeros lacking in the rain.

    I felt the PZeros on the 991 C4S lacking in rain too. I much preferred Michelins.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Whoopsy:

    It's really weird that Carlos found the PZeros lacking in the rain.

    Perhaps it's specific to the N0 rated 20" PZeros of the 991 carreras and Cayman/Boxster, not sure, but never had such issues with Michelin's or Brigestones, and like I mentioned above, this friend of mine with a 991C4S described the exact same thing I had experienced on the wet like losing the rear on roundabouts for no apparent reason, etc... and I hadn't told him anything about my experience with the tires  the , he brought the subject up because he was looking for new tires for the 991. I'm sure it's not a Pirelli vs Michelin thing, and more an issue with this particular model for this car.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Whoopsy:

    It's really weird that Carlos found the PZeros lacking in the rain.

    Normal complaints are about the PZeros lacking in hot grip but has better wet grip in the wet than Michelins. Which is like the case since forever as Pirelli has compounds that works slightly better at a colder temperature and damp condition than Michelin, which sacrifice a few degrees on the cold side to preserve performance on the hot and dry side.

    Pilot Super Sport did not change that focus either. But I guess there are always exceptions. 

     

    I just got new tires for my Carrera . I had PSS and , ideally would of switched to N rated, so I asked around people who had the Pirelli and had the Michelin . They all told me to get the Michelin as they found the Pirelli are not good under water . 

    My PSS are way better under water then the N rated  Pilot sport .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    fritz:
    Gnil:

    As a side note, isn't their anything a fit fishy about the PSS not being N rated ?  As Ferdie, mentions, the PSS was developed on the 997.2  and all the mules at the time were fitted with those . 

    I can't believe the best road tire from Michelin can't be N rated .......  yes

    I have long wondered about the lack of a recommendation and OEM production release for Michelin PSS tyres for recent 911 models. 
    In view of Michelin being the tyre sponsor for motor sport activities and the long relationship between the two marques it seems weird that they would not have been able to eliminate any technical problems which might initially have delayed the release. I suspect that it is now more of a political problem resulting from commercial differences or a personality clash somewhere. 
    If so, it's a shame the customers have to suffer for it. 

    This was a pet peeve of mine, so much so I wrote the Michelin CEO a paper letter about it, couldn't get an answer from Michelin at Parade, over the phone, etc..  My question was when we'd seen an N-Rated PSS for the 991.1?  Answer was not coming for the 991.1, maybe the 991.2.  Didn't give an answer why.  I became somewhat infamous due to asking this.

    At the 2014 Road America Porscheplatz, the head of Michelin U.S. racing explained why, and note I heard this first-hand.  Porsche AG declined to N-rate the MPSS because they felt the breakaway transition behavior was too abrupt with PSM off.  It went from grip to no grip too quickly at the limit WHEN PSM WAS TURNED OFF.  They test the tire in all conditions, including PSM off.

    From what he told us, so long as one kept PSM on, the PSS submitted for the test would have passed and received an N rating.  You could assume, note the word assume, that if you kept PSM on, a PSS would be in effect N-rated, assuming the construction and compound didn't change from what Michelin is selling now vs. what they submitted to Weissach.  It would be at your judgement, rather than an N blessing.

    I don't know if they came in 20s, but the Goodyear F1 asymmetric 19s are N-rated for the 981.1 and 991.1 when shod with 19s.

    HTH,

    Jim


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Jim_in_Iowa:
    fritz:
    Gnil:

    As a side note, isn't their anything a fit fishy about the PSS not being N rated ?  As Ferdie, mentions, the PSS was developed on the 997.2  and all the mules at the time were fitted with those . 

    I can't believe the best road tire from Michelin can't be N rated .......  yes

    I have long wondered about the lack of a recommendation and OEM production release for Michelin PSS tyres for recent 911 models. 
    In view of Michelin being the tyre sponsor for motor sport activities and the long relationship between the two marques it seems weird that they would not have been able to eliminate any technical problems which might initially have delayed the release. I suspect that it is now more of a political problem resulting from commercial differences or a personality clash somewhere. 
    If so, it's a shame the customers have to suffer for it. 

    This was a pet peeve of mine, so much so I wrote the Michelin CEO a paper letter about it, couldn't get an answer from Michelin at Parade, over the phone, etc..  My question was when we'd seen an N-Rated PSS for the 991.1?  Answer was not coming for the 991.1, maybe the 991.2.  Didn't give an answer why.  I became somewhat infamous due to asking this.

    At the 2014 Road America Porscheplatz, the head of Michelin U.S. racing explained why, and note I heard this first-hand.  Porsche AG declined to N-rate the MPSS because they felt the breakaway transition behavior was too abrupt with PSM off.  It went from grip to no grip too quickly at the limit WHEN PSM WAS TURNED OFF.  They test the tire in all conditions, including PSM off.

    From what he told us, so long as one kept PSM on, the PSS submitted for the test would have passed and received an N rating.  You could assume, note the word assume, that if you kept PSM on, a PSS would be in effect N-rated, assuming the construction and compound didn't change from what Michelin is selling now vs. what they submitted to Weissach.  It would be at your judgement, rather than an N blessing.

    I don't know if they came in 20s, but the Goodyear F1 asymmetric 19s are N-rated for the 981.1 and 991.1 when shod with 19s.

    HTH,

    Jim

    Interesting.  Thanks.  Smiley

    A little surprised that Michelin didn't feel it could do something about that characteristic, as tyre testing at this level normally involves reiterative development tests, rather than the vendor submitting one version which is then either accepted or rejected.   Smiley


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    fritz


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    fritz:
    Jim_in_Iowa:
    fritz:
    Gnil:

    As a side note, isn't their anything a fit fishy about the PSS not being N rated ?  As Ferdie, mentions, the PSS was developed on the 997.2  and all the mules at the time were fitted with those . 

    I can't believe the best road tire from Michelin can't be N rated .......  yes

    I have long wondered about the lack of a recommendation and OEM production release for Michelin PSS tyres for recent 911 models. 
    In view of Michelin being the tyre sponsor for motor sport activities and the long relationship between the two marques it seems weird that they would not have been able to eliminate any technical problems which might initially have delayed the release. I suspect that it is now more of a political problem resulting from commercial differences or a personality clash somewhere. 
    If so, it's a shame the customers have to suffer for it. 

    This was a pet peeve of mine, so much so I wrote the Michelin CEO a paper letter about it, couldn't get an answer from Michelin at Parade, over the phone, etc..  My question was when we'd seen an N-Rated PSS for the 991.1?  Answer was not coming for the 991.1, maybe the 991.2.  Didn't give an answer why.  I became somewhat infamous due to asking this.

    At the 2014 Road America Porscheplatz, the head of Michelin U.S. racing explained why, and note I heard this first-hand.  Porsche AG declined to N-rate the MPSS because they felt the breakaway transition behavior was too abrupt with PSM off.  It went from grip to no grip too quickly at the limit WHEN PSM WAS TURNED OFF.  They test the tire in all conditions, including PSM off.

    From what he told us, so long as one kept PSM on, the PSS submitted for the test would have passed and received an N rating.  You could assume, note the word assume, that if you kept PSM on, a PSS would be in effect N-rated, assuming the construction and compound didn't change from what Michelin is selling now vs. what they submitted to Weissach.  It would be at your judgement, rather than an N blessing.

    I don't know if they came in 20s, but the Goodyear F1 asymmetric 19s are N-rated for the 981.1 and 991.1 when shod with 19s.

    HTH,

    Jim

    Interesting.  Thanks.  Smiley

    A little surprised that Michelin didn't feel it could do something about that characteristic, as tyre testing at this level normally involves reiterative development tests, rather than the vendor submitting one version which is then either accepted or rejected.   Smiley

    Yes, very interesting . And it still feels that there is some pression,  or punishment from Porsche to Michelin for what ever reason .

    The PSS on the 997 works like a charm when sliding with PSM on sport plus . It is actually the softest slide I had on any tire fitted to that car ( MPS , Bridgestone )   and I have slide on a very fast curb on the Ring ( the left after Schwedenkreuz, making my heart jump, but not the car , as it was all soft and back into line ) With the MPS or the Potenza RE the slides were more abrupt . 

    I always keep PSM on, so I can not comment on what happens on that extreme 


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Gnil:
    fritz:
    Jim_in_Iowa:
    fritz:
    Gnil:

    As a side note, isn't their anything a fit fishy about the PSS not being N rated ?  As Ferdie, mentions, the PSS was developed on the 997.2  and all the mules at the time were fitted with those . 

    I can't believe the best road tire from Michelin can't be N rated .......  yes

    I have long wondered about the lack of a recommendation and OEM production release for Michelin PSS tyres for recent 911 models. 
    In view of Michelin being the tyre sponsor for motor sport activities and the long relationship between the two marques it seems weird that they would not have been able to eliminate any technical problems which might initially have delayed the release. I suspect that it is now more of a political problem resulting from commercial differences or a personality clash somewhere. 
    If so, it's a shame the customers have to suffer for it. 

    This was a pet peeve of mine, so much so I wrote the Michelin CEO a paper letter about it, couldn't get an answer from Michelin at Parade, over the phone, etc..  My question was when we'd seen an N-Rated PSS for the 991.1?  Answer was not coming for the 991.1, maybe the 991.2.  Didn't give an answer why.  I became somewhat infamous due to asking this.

    At the 2014 Road America Porscheplatz, the head of Michelin U.S. racing explained why, and note I heard this first-hand.  Porsche AG declined to N-rate the MPSS because they felt the breakaway transition behavior was too abrupt with PSM off.  It went from grip to no grip too quickly at the limit WHEN PSM WAS TURNED OFF.  They test the tire in all conditions, including PSM off.

    From what he told us, so long as one kept PSM on, the PSS submitted for the test would have passed and received an N rating.  You could assume, note the word assume, that if you kept PSM on, a PSS would be in effect N-rated, assuming the construction and compound didn't change from what Michelin is selling now vs. what they submitted to Weissach.  It would be at your judgement, rather than an N blessing.

    I don't know if they came in 20s, but the Goodyear F1 asymmetric 19s are N-rated for the 981.1 and 991.1 when shod with 19s.

    HTH,

    Jim

    Interesting.  Thanks.  Smiley

    A little surprised that Michelin didn't feel it could do something about that characteristic, as tyre testing at this level normally involves reiterative development tests, rather than the vendor submitting one version which is then either accepted or rejected.   Smiley

    Yes, very interesting . And it still feels that there is some pression,  or punishment from Porsche to Michelin for what ever reason .

    The PSS on the 997 works like a charm when sliding with PSM on sport plus . It is actually the softest slide I had on any tire fitted to that car ( MPS , Bridgestone )   and I have slide on a very fast curb on the Ring ( the left after Schwedenkreuz, making my heart jump, but not the car , as it was all soft and back into line ) With the MPS or the Potenza RE the slides were more abrupt . 

    I always keep PSM on, so I can not comment on what happens on that extreme 

    Combining those two items of information makes it sound as if the PSS may have been rejected for being too good with PSM switched on.   SmileySmiley


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    fritz


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    1464265700465image.jpeg
    1464265700471image.jpeg
    1464265700457image.jpegI am currently waititn at my OPC to have my new tires fitted on my 997. They have a special model , official Martini edition , 160 pieces worldwide. Thaught it would fit into this thread as tire + 991 should make it enough to be on topic 😇

     


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    I usually keep my mouth shut when I don't like something but it's a good thing there is only 160 because the 991 with those stickers and wing it looks. ... HORRIBLE! angry just my personal opinion though, to each his own.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    +1 My dealer had one too and it took them almost a year to sell it .


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    + 1 . I felt a bit embarrassed as after I took the photos a mechanic came to me saying :  it looks great , isn't it  !  With so much enthusiasm  , that I did not to spoil his joy too much and just said it is a bit much for me, specially with that double back wing 


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Gnil:

    + 1 . I felt a bit embarrassed as after I took the photos a mechanic came to me saying :  it looks great , isn't it  ! 

    whistling.gif SmileySmiley


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Carlos, if your tires were initially better in the rain when brand new than a short while later, maybe the compound in your tires shifted.

    If so that could have happened due to a small flaw in the manufacturers compound formula used in the batch production of those tires or by you rapidly generating heat in them from hard driving and braking when the tires were brand new.

    For your next set of tires, maybe you should look into having them heat cycled in a tire autoclave. Heating the tires up in a mild and easy environment allows them to cool down again and the rubber bonds to become stronger, the compound will not shift to become hard and you will get better traction in the rain and in the dry.

     

     

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    They were like that since day one, that's why I initially dismissed it as the tires being just new, and would improve after their 1-2km break in period. But they didn't. 

    I didn't drive hard on them when new either, initially I always I drive new tires on highway (slow hearing and cooling cycles) and conservatively at that since new tires need to shave off the outer surface before they work properly.

    I don't think it's a problem with my particular set of tires as most people I talk to that have these tires share the same experience on the wet. Pirelli did a very poor job developing the N0, at least in the 20" sizes for the 991, for normal wet conditions, and Porsche a poor N Rating testing job, though personally I think they just signed them off inspite their performance because they had no other N rated tire available for the 991 and needed them for the launch of the 991.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Two more bits of information.  I asked Bridgestone why they didn't have an N-rated 991 tire; they've had them in the past?  The rep told me they did submit one for the 991, but I believe the price was higher than desired for the OEM fitment.  He didn't mention whether it passed or not.

    The other piece is the genesis of the N-rating, why did it come about?  I heard this at a PCA Parade, and do not doubt the source.  You may remember the famous Pirelli P7 from the 1970s?  It was a leap forward at the time, THE tire to have, and OEM fitment on the 911 Turbo.

    An issue arose, however, when Turbo owners began to replace their tires.  The off-the-shelf P7s they bought disturbed the previously excellent handling.  I do not remember the specifics.  What had happened was that Pirelli had made adjustments to the P7, as it was their design, after all.  Those changes did not cause any issues with the other cars running them, but those changes did not work well with the 911.  The rear-engined 911 places unique demands on a tire compared to front-engined, rear wheel drive or mid-engined cars.

    So there was a disagreement about configuration control.  Porsche thought the best way to settle it was to create the N rating, where the compound, construction, and pattern was set, tested, and under PAG's configuration control.    So once a model receives the N0 rating, those configuration control elements must be held steady.  The tire maker can revise the tire, submit it to Porsche for re-testing, and if it passes, then they increment the number, N0 becomes N1, and so on.  I think some of the 996 N-rated tires may have reached N4.

    At any rate, that's a couple of more things to keep in mind.

     


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    Very interesting Jim kiss

    Bridhestone does have indeed N rated tires, the RE050A to name one, I've used it on the 997.1S, good tire, sidewall a bit on the stiff side but good grip wet or dry, I still preffered the N rated Michelins for the 991.1, which were the PS2's.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    JimFlat6:

    Carlos, if your tires were initially better in the rain when brand new than a short while later, maybe the compound in your tires shifted.

    If so that could have happened due to a small flaw in the manufacturers compound formula used in the batch production of those tires or by you rapidly generating heat in them from hard driving and braking when the tires were brand new.

     

    I was also contemplating whether that poor wet road behavior was due to a flawed production process, e.g. manufacturing temperature. One could look at the DOT numbers and possibly narrow it down to a certain batch.

    I am somewhat surprised that Porsche would allow such a poor wet handling on a regular tire yet assumedly dismisses the Michelin Super Sport for its handling character on the limit with PSM disgaged. All of this would not be an issue if there were more tires available with an N rating as before. The 9x7 variants were available with far more alternatives.


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    I have dunlops as oem's and quite happy with them 

    image.jpeg


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    You have semi-slicks, not normal road tires.

    I still don't think the Michelin PSS is much better in rain, it may give a false sense of stability though, resulting in a pretty abrupt losing of grip tendency. 

    I have the PZero in J (Jaguar) configuration on my GT500 too and it is an excellent tire in the wet but of course it can't beat physics.

    The Continental SportContact P5 (I have the tire on my wife's Macan Turbo) seems to be pretty good on wet roads but dry handling could be better in my opinion (it starts losing grip when it gets very very warm, may have something to do with the tread mixture).

    With high performance tires, the difference in handling is quite close to each other, so even if the Michelin PSS would be let's say 3-4 km faster than a Pzero in the wet, most drivers won't notice the difference.

    Of course there is a different story with semi-slicks...

    I heard however that the new PZero N1 for the new 911 is an excellent tire and maybe Porsche will approve this tire for the 991.1 models as well at some point.

    In the past, I haven't been a friend of the PZero but lately, I think that the PZero is quite good. It started with my Panamera Turbo S and my former 991 Turbo S had the PZero as well. I'm not a slow driver in rain (if conditions permit), so I would have noticed any serious issues. However, I do not recommend using ANY tire on a 991.1 with Sport or even Sport Plus mode. The ESP reacts completely different!

    Carlos did not, unfortunately, mention if he uses Sport/Sport Plus or not on wet roads. If the answer is yes, we may have found the culprit. Just yesterday, it was raining cats and gods in Bavaria and I took my GTS for a spin. With PSM active and Sport/Sport Plus off, the car was wonderful to drive in rain and fast as hell without any massive understeer. yes Once I turned Sport mode on however, the car showed heavy understeer on the wet road, up to a point where the front tires almost lost grip.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    RC:

    I heard however that the new PZero N1 for the new 911 is an excellent tire and maybe Porsche will approve this tire for the 991.1 models as well at some point.

    Fortunately they are already are available for the 991.1, including the GTS, see Ferdie's chart he posted.

    Carlos did not, unfortunately, mention if he uses Sport/Sport Plus or not on wet roads. If the answer is yes, we may have found the culprit. 

    Think you missed my earlier reply, I mention that I never use Sport/SportPlus on the wet for several reasons. Like I said, I have driven over 400,000km on 911's and many on wet because I drive them daily, used many different tires, its the N0 tires, they are crap in wet, that is why they had to redesign it completely in the N1 and why so many people complain of the same thing with the N0's, not just me.

    My friend with the 991.1Cab4S just replaced the N0 with the N1 and I will be with him in an P-outing in three weeks so I will see what he tells me on how the N1's  compare since he also had problems with the N0s with them loosing traction on wet roundoabouts without even going fast for example.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Problem with tires on the 991

    The new N1 is incredibly fast on dry roads, almost up to semi-slick performance. So I'm very very curious about the performance in the wet, keep us posted! 

    Like I said, it was raining like crazy yesterday and I drove pretty fast (not much traffic around...), including several roundabouts but no loosing traction, at all. PSM was on, sport modes off. It is possible that my AWD GTS has a different ESP setup but... yes Speed was around 50-60 kph...not slow...for a wet roundabout.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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