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    Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    This is what happen to any car owner in Switzerland that drives more then 60 km/h over the speed limit outside town, or over 80 km/h on a higway or over 50 km/h in a area of 50/60 km/h and over 40 km/h in an area of 30 km/h.

    I think no one would like that. Especially when you baught the car, that is your property ( but if it's a leasing it'll be sequester as well) and that you drove all the way to your appointment with the cruise control on, pushed on the thruttle to take a car over and then let the car speed down to get back on the cruise control. Unluckly in the speed down process, a lovely flash lite is posted. No sign saying please make a smile.Smiley

    This is the moment when you see your car going for a long Nap, but not in your garage at home, in a garage really special where even you or your car don't like to be. You don't even know if you'll see it one day again cause your car will, by 80 % go for sale. So imagine the one that baught a bugatti or a pagani zonda SmileySmiley what about my half million pay Smiley . You, by the way, you will have minimum 1 year or more in jail (deferred sentence) and minimum 2 years of driver license gone. this for all the overspeed limit above. 40, 50, 60 and 80 km/h over.

    So, know you imagine that the judge is kind and tells you. You can have your car back Smiley you happy in one way and anxious in the other way. Why?  Because, you ask yourself: should i keep the car that gave me all those trouble or should i sell the car and get a pair of strong leggs. Because even a Dacia will bring these kind of trouble. the only difference between the dacia and the sportcar is that you might reach the level quicker with the sportcar then with the Dacia.

    So what to do with a Turbo S that can't be use in his proper way excepted in germany and even there or on a track knowing that this car is not really done for track due to his weight.


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    I know why I hate driving in Switzerland. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    i can imagine. Our authority do the thing wrong. i guess is going to make even the swiss citizen leave the country

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Cram:

    i can imagine. Our authority do the thing wrong. i guess is going to make even the swiss citizen leave the country

     

    I understand all your complaints. I also don't like to drive in Switzerland, because I am so focused not driving faster than allowed. On the other side that a rules. And you have to follow the rules. I would´t blame the government for that. 

    You have asked the real question - why should I buy 991 turbo S in Switzerland. The answer is not so easy, here are few you can choose one or two:

    - to drive so twisty mountain roads with a large smile 
    - to impress someone
    - to support Porsche and all the people working their 
    - to support your county by paying taxes
    - you have so much money, that you need a way of spending it
    - to be a member of Rennteam 
    - ....

     


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    ALDO:
    Cram:

    i can imagine. Our authority do the thing wrong. i guess is going to make even the swiss citizen leave the country

     

    I understand all your complaints. I also don't like to drive in Switzerland, because I am so focused not driving faster than allowed. On the other side that a rules. And you have to follow the rules. I would´t blame the government for that. 

    You have asked the real question - why should I buy 991 turbo S in Switzerland. The answer is not so easy, here are few you can choose one or two:

    - to drive so twisty mountain roads with a large smile 
    - to impress someone
    - to support Porsche and all the people working their 
    - to support your county by paying taxes
    - you have so much money, that you need a way of spending it
    - to be a member of Rennteam 
    - ....

     

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    ALDO:
    Cram:

    i can imagine. Our authority do the thing wrong. i guess is going to make even the swiss citizen leave the country

     

     I would´t blame the government for that. 

    You have asked the real question - why should I buy 991 turbo S in Switzerland. The answer is not so easy, here are few you can choose one or two:

    - to drive so twisty mountain roads with a large smile 
    - to impress someone
    - to support Porsche and all the people working their 
    - to support your county by paying taxes
    - you have so much money, that you need a way of spending it
    - to be a member of Rennteam 
    - ....

    i'm not really blaming the government. i'm for rules. i'm just saying that this particular rule called Via Secura is pretty hard. but work on the driver pretty well.

    sorry but none of your answer is suiting me. but thanks.

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    The 50 km/h above the limit in a area of 50/60 km/h and over 40 km/h above the limit in an area of 30 km/h are good rules, and I don't really have mercy for offenders. But if you drive 200km/h on a highway you are not putting anyone in danger. 


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Those rules are perfect.  First of all, there are a lot of Swiss people (especially young people), that are horrible drivers and they are simply a danger on the road, even at legal speeds. How higher the penalties, how better people are aware of the danger or at least think about it.

    All the European countries have these speed-limits, except very few roads in Germany, so I don't understand why you are complaining. yes Yes the fines in Switzerland are pretty high, but that is the only system that actually works. If someone that makes, let's say a million euro a year, is penelized with a fine of 300 euro for speeding, he only laughs... If that same person gets a fine of 30000 euro, he will definitely thinks twice the next time. If his car is taken, he will regret even more...


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    993Targa:

    The 50 km/h above the limit in a area of 50/60 km/h and over 40 km/h above the limit in an area of 30 km/h are good rules, and I don't really have mercy for offenders. But if you drive 200km/h on a highway you are not putting anyone in danger. 

    i agree too. 200km/h ok for me as well,  but only when the business people and family are back home and the highway is almost empty and clear conditions.

    it's been proved that with high speed you get less accident because your are concentrate on your driving and on the road. Germany was a good example.

    Few accident or not so many as we can see here with a low speed and having your eyes focused on your speedlimit . but and only but. when a crash happen it's usually big crash because the speed is high. and it's totaly obvious.

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    993Targa:

    The 50 km/h above the limit in a area of 50/60 km/h and over 40 km/h above the limit in an area of 30 km/h are good rules, and I don't really have mercy for offenders. But if you drive 200km/h on a highway you are not putting anyone in danger. 

    I don't have an issue with the rules for 30km/h and 50km/h inner-city speed limits. The accidents on these roads are likely to involve pedestrians or cyclists or even children playing in the wrong spot...

    Country roads and highways could be discussed. I believe Switzerland took the decision that speeding is speeding. No discussion or grey areas. Court, jail, fine, thank you very much and don't you dare doing it again. These rules are of course targeted at people who consistently used to drive too fast, causing danger and havoc in their path. These people should not drive and less of them to today. But sometimes even the good guys get caught, the ones who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, like Cram Smiley  But rules are rules. 

    The first week I lived in Switzerland I got 3-4 speeding tickets (only small ones). Then I learned Smiley One gets used to it and I never "think" about keeping the speed limit, I just keep it.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    The better thing to do is just 'tax' people the right to speed on the autobahn with other restrictions. Want to drive 250km/h? Pay 1000 euro/month, blackbox attached to car recording speeds at all times, pay a substantially higher insurance premium for public liability, zero collision insurance under any circumstance, and very high fines should you get in an accident while going beyond the normal speed limit.

    Problem solved. There is your fine -- a totalled $300K at near 100% loss and potentially sky-high fines.

    If some rich guy wants to roll the dice, so be it. He pays a nice tax every year to be able to do so, but should he even get in a small fender bender, he'll have no coverage. Small fender bender in your Ferrari? Well you're out $5K for the repairs.

    Favors the rich in that they can afford to do it, but it's very high-risk with very low reward. You get to go a little fast in exchange for no insurance coverage and a tax.


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Cram:
    ALDO:
    Cram:

    i can imagine. Our authority do the thing wrong. i guess is going to make even the swiss citizen leave the country

     

     I would´t blame the government for that. 

    You have asked the real question - why should I buy 991 turbo S in Switzerland. The answer is not so easy, here are few you can choose one or two:

    - to drive so twisty mountain roads with a large smile 
    - to impress someone
    - to support Porsche and all the people working their 
    - to support your county by paying taxes
    - you have so much money, that you need a way of spending it
    - to be a member of Rennteam 
    - ....

    i'm not really blaming the government. i'm for rules. i'm just saying that this particular rule called Via Secura is pretty hard. but work on the driver pretty well.

    sorry but none of your answer is suiting me. but thanks.

     

    OK, sorry for the 991 turbo S. I am not far away from Switzerland, please prepare the car (clean, wash, wax, polish, ..) I can pick it up the next days. :) 

    If you wish I can give you as a compensation a very good mountain bike. Smiley


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    SuzyF:

     so I don't understand why you are complaining. yes Yes the fines in Switzerland are pretty high, but that is the only system that

    SuzyF: don't get me wrong. i'm not complaining. As i said, they must be rules but they ARE NOT ALWAYS WELL ADAPTED TO THE SITUATION. just like blueline said.
    if you are in a city like, Zurich, Geneva, Bern etc... it's lunch time, ther are kids, mothers, fathers etc.... and you drive a 100 km/h or you do a rodeo drive. or on a highway in the middle of the day or at 17h00 when all the workers go home and you do slalom on a 200 km/h, then yes these Via secura rule is correct.
    i'm not trying to defend my case because  it's not the place and the time for it, i'm just saying that a person like me that does more then 30'000 km a year, no matter the car. drive on a clear road, push on the throttle to take a car over and then goe back on the cruise control, should not get the same punishment then a guy doing rodeo on a road with his car. Smiley  No offense Smiley

    Thanks blueline Smiley

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    ALDO

    OK, sorry for the 991 turbo S. I am not far away from Switzerland, please prepare the car (clean, wash, wax, polish, ..) I can pick it up the next days. :) 

    If you wish I can give you as a compensation a very good mountain bike. Smiley

     

    No problem, i'm over it now. ok no problem i can prepare the car. but rather to have a mountain bike, which i already have, i rather would have 135'500.- 140'500.- CHF for a 10.2010 Turbo S with 28'000km Smiley


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Cram:
    SuzyF:

     so I don't understand why you are complaining. yes Yes the fines in Switzerland are pretty high, but that is the only system that

    SuzyF: don't get me wrong. i'm not complaining. As i said, they must be rules but they ARE NOT ALWAYS WELL ADAPTED TO THE SITUATION. just like blueline said.
    if you are in a city like, Zurich, Geneva, Bern etc... it's lunch time, ther are kids, mothers, fathers etc.... and you drive a 100 km/h or you do a rodeo drive. or on a highway in the middle of the day or at 17h00 when all the workers go home and you do slalom on a 200 km/h, then yes these Via secura rule is correct.
    i'm not trying to defend my case because  it's not the place and the time for it, i'm just saying that a person like me that does more then 30'000 km a year, no matter the car. drive on a clear road, push on the throttle to take a car over and then goe back on the cruise control, should not get the same punishment then a guy doing rodeo on a road with his car. Smiley  No offense Smiley

    Thanks blueline Smiley

     

    I understand your frustrations, but rules are rules. I also drive more than  30,000km a year and I definitely know what you mean. However, they can't make different rules for different people.

    I took some small fines in the first two months in Switzerland as well, like bluelines, but after that I haven't got any tickets for speeding anymore. Conclusion: the system works, even if it can be crule sometimes.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Suzy: 


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    SuzyF:

    I understand your frustrations, but rules are rules. I also drive more than  30,000km a year and I definitely know what you mean. However, they can't make different rules for different people.

    I took some small fines in the first two months in Switzerland as well, like bluelines, but after that I haven't got any tickets for speeding anymore. Conclusion: the system works, even if it can be crule sometimes.

    They don't have to be different rules. You do it by making it optional with certain fees/strings attached. It happens all the time in just about every facet of life.

    It's not illegal for some people to sell nuclear fuel, but it is for others. What's the difference? Well, one guy has a license to and the other doesn't. What does it take to get a license? Well, you need a certain type of business. Anyone can open such a business if they want, of course, it that business probably requires a massive amount of money to start.

    Speeding can work the same way. Sell people a permit to speed with certain requirements to be met. If you can afford it, go for it. If you can't, no big deal, just don't speed.

    Does that cater to the rich? Not any more than anything else, IMO.


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    and you would enforce it how exactly???


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - 120 Cab - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    noone1:
    SuzyF:

    I understand your frustrations, but rules are rules. I also drive more than  30,000km a year and I definitely know what you mean. However, they can't make different rules for different people.

    I took some small fines in the first two months in Switzerland as well, like bluelines, but after that I haven't got any tickets for speeding anymore. Conclusion: the system works, even if it can be crule sometimes.

    They don't have to be different rules. You do it by making it optional with certain fees/strings attached. It happens all the time in just about every facet of life.

    It's not illegal for some people to sell nuclear fuel, but it is for others. What's the difference? Well, one guy has a license to and the other doesn't. What does it take to get a license? Well, you need a certain type of business. Anyone can open such a business if they want, of course, it that business probably requires a massive amount of money to start.

    Speeding can work the same way. Sell people a permit to speed with certain requirements to be met. If you can afford it, go for it. If you can't, no big deal, just don't speed.

    Does that cater to the rich? Not any more than anything else, IMO.

    That's pretty unsafe if you ask me. On a road where 95% is driving 120 or 130km/h, it would be dangerous to drive twice that speed, only because you can afford a license to do so. Other road users are not expecting a vehicle passing at twice the speed. The fact that someone can afford to have such a 'speeding license' does not mean it's a better driver, than someone who can't afford that license.

    The only thing that could work are variable speeds at variable times or adapted to the circumstances at the particular moment. When a road is empty, it's no problem if the max. speed goes up to let's say 180km/h. If the road gets crowded, than it needs to be lowered to 90km/h ot whatever speed is suitable at that moment. This can easiliy be done with overhead matrix signs. Speeds over 180km/h should not be allowed anywhere on public roads with less than 4 lanes IMHO. Unless a road has more than 3 lanes, there are simply too many cars that are not able or people that don't feel safe at higher speeds. Not every driver on the road can adapt to those circumstances as easy as most of us probably can. On 4 or more lanes, there could be a maximum speed of 250km/h, but only in the far left lane (far right for UK of course Smiley).

    I drive above 200km/h as well sometimes in Germany, but I don't see any fun of it to be honest. It only saves a very small amount of time. Nothing more, nothing less. It's only exciting the very first time you do it... After that it's just another constant speed. Most of the times I set my cruise control on 180 in Germany (if allowed and safe). Not many reasons to drive any faster IMO. That's also why I don't care about numbers like 0-200, let alone 0-300km/h. They're useless. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Bottom line :  Does it make sense to buy a Turbo S in speed limited countries , specially the ones with very tough  laws ?  Buying such a car, is it not asking to be in trouble ?  The only real fun you get from a TTS is when you feel the turbo boost ..... and that brings you directly into  speeding area . 

    What kind of car can be enjoyed on our roads without risking our licenses or being frustrated because not being able to use the '' nice '' part of the car ?

    I  would not buy a Turbo S in Switzerland ...... a pure waist to me or a crime pusher  ( I know exactly that I would once and a while push the throttle way too much )  .  And I would also not buy a super bike, for the same reasons .  

    So..... what kind of cars , good cars, give pleasure on our rods without risking too much to loose your license ?

     

    Cram : Hang in there ..... that too shall pass !


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Gnil:
    So..... what kind of cars , good cars, give pleasure on our rods without risking too much to loose your license ?

     

    Cram : Hang in there ..... that too shall pass !


    Best car to have in our country today is the Citroen 2 CV
    Smiley Bro

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Best fun car for Switzerland (and probably any other country other than Germany) is a classic sports car in my opinion. Entertaining to drive, positive image, low risk of losing your license and little or no depreciation.


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    LOL! Yes a 2CV would be perfect ;) Ask Chris  harris how much fun it can be....

    On a more serious note: i agree that a Turbo S is overkill in our country (and for that matter in every country with speed limits. However... After having drivin the Turbo S a while ago, I still think it can be a very enjoyabke car, even in Switzerland. It's not only about speed. Torque can be a enjoyable, even at legal speeds. The problem with the Turbo S is that it makes illegal speeds feel very legal and you go way above the limits, without having a clue. It's mostly because it does it all so effordlessly and without much emotion. The car is great, but after having thought about it for a while, I think that I had a lot more fun with my Boxster S than I would ever have with a 991 Turbo S, as lomg as it is a weekend /fun car. Enjoying some beautiful mountain roads with the top down and enjoying the scenery satisfies me a lot more than the brutal power of the Turbo S, which is impressive the first time you drive it, but you get used to that power very quickly. For a daily driver, the 991 is just that little bit nicer than the 981.

    When a car puts a smile on my face, I think it's a good car. This doesn't necessarilly mean that a lot of power needs to be involved. Sometimes, a classic 1960's roadster with only 115hp can offer a lot more fun than a 560hp 2014 Turbo S. It all depends on the occasion and the needs of the driver.

     

     


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Now that the car is for the moment no longer in my hands but in the one the law, i don't have much to do or to decide. But deep behind my head, there's a small voice telling me to get rude of the car and to sell it. What will be tomorrow, will be tomorrow. i'm leaving into today on a 24 hours a day and then i'll try to let go.

    i've got to accept what i cannot change, to find the courage to change what i can and the wisdom to know the difference. this my goal for the moment.


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    In Anglo-Saxon legal jurisdictions, the most one finds AFAIK are fines, points on licences, withdrawal of licences, criminal convictions etc (i.e. mostly punishing the driver) but taking away a person's car then selling it or crushing it is IMvHO an unacceptable incursion on a person's freedom to own property.

    The difference between fines and confiscating cars is that money is fungible. People pay and it may hurt but money is exchangeable and therefore replaceable. A car isn't. It could be a classic, it could be something that will never be built again.

    Rules, even if they work, should be proportionate since this is a political compromise at the end of the day that impinges on civil liberties. IMvHO this just goes too far. And it is one of the reasons why I would never live in a jurisdiction whose laws are ultimately derived from Civil Law.


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Gnil:

    Bottom line :  Does it make sense to buy a Turbo S in speed limited countries , specially the ones with very tough  laws ?  Buying such a car, is it not asking to be in trouble ?  The only real fun you get from a TTS is when you feel the turbo boost ..... and that brings you directly into  speeding area . 

    What kind of car can be enjoyed on our roads without risking our licenses or being frustrated because not being able to use the '' nice '' part of the car ?

    I  would not buy a Turbo S in Switzerland ...... a pure waist to me or a crime pusher  ( I know exactly that I would once and a while push the throttle way too much )  .  And I would also not buy a super bike, for the same reasons .  

    So..... what kind of cars , good cars, give pleasure on our rods without risking too much to loose your license ?

    Cram : Hang in there ..... that too shall pass !

    It unfortunately applies to most modern sports cars. They are all too powerful and too forgiving. Meaning you have to push it to even feel the limit. 

    A Boxster or Alfa 4C are my votes Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    I have seen speed traps even on the nice swiss mountain twisties... mail


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    easy_rider911:

    Rules, even if they work, should be proportionate since this is a political compromise at the end of the day that impinges on civil liberties. IMvHO this just goes too far. And it is one of the reasons why I would never live in a jurisdiction whose laws are ultimately derived from Civil Law.

    it's also my point of view. even i admit my wrong and accept them.  France is pulling also new rules against fast drivers or criminel behawior. we want come back to our 60ties. but let's face it. do we take the right direction?


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    If they confiscate the car and sell it who gets the proceeds? What is the purpose of selling the car? In the US, some states do confiscate the car but eventually you get it back AFTER paying the fines and penalties.

    If enforcement is primarily by electronic monitoring, rent the car.indecision

     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    That's crazy - charging fines based on how much you are worth, the car you drive or how much you earn!  I love the US - I can drive my Turbo like its on fire 90% of the time and no body cares - No speed cameras, no excessive fines, just equal treatment without greed or 'social-justice'!  I must say that here in Kansas I enjoy free use of my car far more than anyone in Europe - Germany included!  I would trade the unrestricted autobahn and german speed cameras elsewhere for Kansas and Missouri roads ) except the scenery anytime. 

    I feel bad for you Cram - hang in there.  I would buy a 50cc scooter in der Schweiz

     


     
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