Crown
Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
May 19, 2008 7:03:45 PM
- STRADALE
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: NY , United States
- Posts: 11075, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 9, 2005
- Reply to: Alex_997TT
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
You are entitled to your opinion dude; but I seriously couldn't be happier with the sound of my car now, and the ENORMOUS jump in power/torque with the kit. So CG/RST must be doing something right.
More often than not in life: you get what you pay for. Which is why Ruf and CG/RST are pretty much the two most expensive Porsche tuners.
Of course you do the majority of the time. Totally agree w/ you there regarding "you get what you pay for" but where did that come from, it doesnt have anything to do w/ what we were talking about. But in that case I guess the Tubi would be better than the CG exhaust? I dont think that's entirely true, they're just different but just trying to understand where you're coming from.
RE: The CG "kit". I just dont see it as a performance "kit". It's an exhaust & ECU. But I'm happy for you. Not really sure why you're taking offense to my questions. Doing an ECU here trashes your warranty but just doing the exhaust doesnt. If the un-written rules here were the same as by you and by switching out the exhaust it means you toss the warranty then I'd do exactly what you did and do both the ecu & exhaust............."dude". LoL! I didnt know you chaps use the word "dude". Cheers!
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
Ferdie said:Quote:
STRADALE said:
TUV, ISO, Basically BS.
TÜV is mandatory in Germany, apart from annual, bi- or triannual checks for every motorized vehicle on public roads new components have to have a European or national approval, otherwise the ensurance would be voided.
So unlike the effect of ISO standardisation (which might be debateable), the TÜV approval ensures a substantial functional assurance and compliance. You could've known that.
Sounds the same to me. The CG exhaust is a good example. the Loud version isnt TUV. Why? It's made exactly the same way isnt it? So they just havent gotten to paying them for their BS stamp of approval yet I guess. It's BS. It doesnt quantify or qualify quality. You can make the crappiest widget in the world but if you comply w/ making it exactly the same way every time you can pay enough to have the audit, etc. and get your certification. On the other side of it if you asked 20 experts what was the very best widget co. in the world & 20 replied xyz co. if they havent paid TUV then they're not TUV Approved. Dun no a lot about it but sure sounds like a meaningless certification.
May 19, 2008 7:17:27 PM
- Alex_997TT
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
- Posts: 3320, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 20, 2005
- Reply to: STRADALE
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Sorry, I have spent way too much time in the US and or talking to US colleagues/friends on a daily basis that 'dude' is now more common than 'mate' in my vernacular.
My point that I was trying to make was that if the best (most expensive) tuners add a sports air-filter in their Stage 1 (exhaust+filter) kits, then there must be a very good reason for doing so.
I don't know if the sound difference is further amplified by the ECU remap though
My point that I was trying to make was that if the best (most expensive) tuners add a sports air-filter in their Stage 1 (exhaust+filter) kits, then there must be a very good reason for doing so.
I don't know if the sound difference is further amplified by the ECU remap though
May 19, 2008 7:19:24 PM
- Alex_997TT
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
- Posts: 3320, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 20, 2005
- Reply to: STRADALE
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Ferdie said:Quote:
STRADALE said:
TUV, ISO, Basically BS.
TÜV is mandatory in Germany, apart from annual, bi- or triannual checks for every motorized vehicle on public roads new components have to have a European or national approval, otherwise the ensurance would be voided.
So unlike the effect of ISO standardisation (which might be debateable), the TÜV approval ensures a substantial functional assurance and compliance. You could've known that.
Sounds the same to me. The CG exhaust is a good example. the Loud version isnt TUV. Why? It's made exactly the same way isnt it? So they just havent gotten to paying them for their BS stamp of approval yet I guess. It's BS. It doesnt quantify or qualify quality. You can make the crappiest widget in the world but if you comply w/ making it exactly the same way every time you can pay enough to have the audit, etc. and get your certification. On the other side of it if you asked 20 experts what was the very best widget co. in the world & 20 replied xyz co. if they havent paid TUV then they're not TUV Approved. Dun no a lot about it but sure sounds like a meaningless certification.
Probably it's too loud and not good enough cat emissions for legal road car requirements in Germany. Doesn't mean the quality is any less.
May 19, 2008 7:35:03 PM
- STRADALE
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: NY , United States
- Posts: 11075, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 9, 2005
- Reply to: Alex_997TT
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
Sorry, I have spent way too much time in the US and or talking to US colleagues/friends on a daily basis that 'dude' is now more common than 'mate' in my vernacular.
My point that I was trying to make was that if the best (most expensive) tuners add a sports air-filter in their Stage 1 (exhaust+filter) kits, then there must be a very good reason for doing so.
I don't know if the sound difference is further amplified by the ECU remap though
Ohh got ya. If so & so uses it then it must make a difference.
But you could also make the arguement then if an $180 part made any difference wouldnt everyone be using it? Or maybe they include it to make the "kit" sound like more than just an ecu & exhaust?
I dont know, maybe it does something. I've heard numerous times it doesnt make any power but your point could make perfect sense, I often think about things the same way. I actually started a thread w/ that exact topic a couple of months ago because I was thinking of getting one. It just didnt seem like there was any consensus on it's performance.
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=416093&an=0&page=11#416093
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Cann,
Please keep us informed. I'm curious about the fitment. I haven't done anything yet because of what I've heard about trying to get them to align properly so wondering if a fellow OCD owner will be satisfied. If you're happy I know I'll be happy.
They look freakin awesome.
Please keep us informed. I'm curious about the fitment. I haven't done anything yet because of what I've heard about trying to get them to align properly so wondering if a fellow OCD owner will be satisfied. If you're happy I know I'll be happy.
They look freakin awesome.
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
STRADALE said:
You can make the crappiest widget in the world but if you comply w/ making it exactly the same way every time you can pay enough to have the audit, etc. and get your certification.
TÜV approval does not encourage to meet the lowest common denominator, it requires a significant level to comply. The CG exhaust lacking TÜV approval will most probably have dB levels that exceed the legal limits. Contrary to that approach one does not need that approval for US registration but may sue the manufacturer in case anything goes wrong. Which is better for the customer you decide...
I have personally dealt with ISO certification myself and share your opinon on that account.
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Gregg,
Even if it fits stock or Cargraphic (which it does beautifully on AAHTT's Turbo), I think the only way to know for sure is to actually try it with your Tubi. Fabspeed does allow refund, minus 20% "restocking" fee.
The quality is truly outstanding. My only mild criticism is it does feel heavy, but I don't know how much stock tip weighs. Your Tubi is so light so this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Hope this helps.
Even if it fits stock or Cargraphic (which it does beautifully on AAHTT's Turbo), I think the only way to know for sure is to actually try it with your Tubi. Fabspeed does allow refund, minus 20% "restocking" fee.
The quality is truly outstanding. My only mild criticism is it does feel heavy, but I don't know how much stock tip weighs. Your Tubi is so light so this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Hope this helps.
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Cann,
Please keep us informed. I'm curious about the fitment. I haven't done anything yet because of what I've heard about trying to get them to align properly so wondering if a fellow OCD owner will be satisfied. If you're happy I know I'll be happy.
They look freakin awesome.
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
cannga said:
Gregg,
Even if it fits stock or Cargraphic (which it does beautifully on AAHTT's Turbo), I think the only way to know for sure is to actually try it with your Tubi. Fabspeed does allow refund, minus 20% "restocking" fee.
The quality is truly outstanding. My only mild criticism is it does feel heavy, but I don't know how much stock tip weighs. Your Tubi is so light so this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Hope this helps.
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Cann,
Please keep us informed. I'm curious about the fitment. I haven't done anything yet because of what I've heard about trying to get them to align properly so wondering if a fellow OCD owner will be satisfied. If you're happy I know I'll be happy.
They look freakin awesome.
No what I meant is the alignment fitment. Numerous guys have commented they cant get the Fabspeed tips to align properly, one or both stick out to the side. But I've heard from others they were able to get it to work, almost. I know it will fit on the Tubi but I'm wondering if they will fit straight. If not it would drive me mad.
Jun 19, 2008 5:47:51 PM
- sharkster
- Junior
-
- Loc: San Jose
- Posts: 110, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 5, 2005
-
Reply to:
Super Darius
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
i really like the Cargraphic Loud... here's a video clip from a car we finished last week:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/SharkWerks-Created-997TT_166564.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/SharkWerks-Created-997TT_166564.htm
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
cannga said:
Ah... it's about time northern California & 6speedonline's premier Porsche shop gives Cargraphic a try!
34 posts! One would think you would be on rennteam more often considering your English connection.
hehe thanks;) For real though we've been very much onboard with Cargraphic's parts. They make some very well engineered stuff. And it sounds good too:P
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Looking back at the first post of this thread I can't help but smile. I was one confused soul searching for the perfect sound.
The Bilstein PSS10 installation has taken so much of my time that I actually have not even had this Cargraphic thing installed yet. It appears it is selling well! I am dealing with the distributor directly (RSS) and yet was put on hold for 2 weeks due to short supply! (Either that or someone is bad with inventory. LOL)
Yeah the "racing pedigree" is awsome; my complaint though is the cost. Cargraphic with tip would cost 5500-6000 easily. Oh well... nothin' but the best for my Turbo baby!
The Bilstein PSS10 installation has taken so much of my time that I actually have not even had this Cargraphic thing installed yet. It appears it is selling well! I am dealing with the distributor directly (RSS) and yet was put on hold for 2 weeks due to short supply! (Either that or someone is bad with inventory. LOL)
Yeah the "racing pedigree" is awsome; my complaint though is the cost. Cargraphic with tip would cost 5500-6000 easily. Oh well... nothin' but the best for my Turbo baby!
Quote:
sharkster said:Quote:
cannga said:
Ah... it's about time northern California & 6speedonline's premier Porsche shop gives Cargraphic a try!
34 posts! One would think you would be on rennteam more often considering your English connection.
hehe thanks;) For real though we've been very much onboard with Cargraphic's parts. They make some very well engineered stuff. And it sounds good too:P
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Agreed. I too prefer a single round but will settle for the double-round from Fabspeed. Reason: the rectangular-dimension opening of our Turbo's exhaust makes a single round difficult to look right. I'll have pictures some time next week as my appointment is this Monday.
Yippee!!
Yippee!!
Quote:
TT Gasman said:
The first aftermarket exhaust company that makes a high quality single round/oval tip for the 997TT is gonna make a lot of money. Anybody listening out there, Fabspeed, Cg, Tubi GMG....??
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
After so many months, I finally have the Cargraphic Loud Version installed, by the US Distributor http://www.roadsportsupply.com/cargraphic_porsche.html
The look: Fabspeed round tips. I like it. It's ROUND. Porsche, are you listening and has the tip designer been re-assigned? LOL
The sound: My Sweet Buddha... I keep rolling down the window at stop signs and rev the engine like a juvenile delinquent. And I am a certified over-the-top audiophile; need I say more about the sound quality?
Kidding aside, my dear wife refuses to drive the car, let alone do fly-by's at speed with me listening from the sidewalk, so I only have a driver's seat report.
At idle: A hefty rumbling with plenty of low frequency, but none of that thump thump noise that causes a headache or neighbor to want to shoot you.
At mid rev, up to maybe 4-5 thousands rpm: VERY PLEASANT mid-range, crunchy, crackling sound. This part, I love the most.
At high rev, a really really loud scream, not "harsh" at all. As mentioned above, this part sounds most beautiful if you are a outside of the car as bystander. I would imagine if you want to impress someone, this is how you would do it: A high speed fly-by with him on the sidewalk. I promise you will be picking up your guest's jaw from the ground afterwards.
Of note, I notice the Cargraphic Loud does have a balance pipe (this is the cross pipe that connects the 2 cans, supposedly to reduce resonance). The stock exhaust does have this pipe and previously I thought only AWE among the after-markets also has it.
The look: Fabspeed round tips. I like it. It's ROUND. Porsche, are you listening and has the tip designer been re-assigned? LOL
The sound: My Sweet Buddha... I keep rolling down the window at stop signs and rev the engine like a juvenile delinquent. And I am a certified over-the-top audiophile; need I say more about the sound quality?
Kidding aside, my dear wife refuses to drive the car, let alone do fly-by's at speed with me listening from the sidewalk, so I only have a driver's seat report.
At idle: A hefty rumbling with plenty of low frequency, but none of that thump thump noise that causes a headache or neighbor to want to shoot you.
At mid rev, up to maybe 4-5 thousands rpm: VERY PLEASANT mid-range, crunchy, crackling sound. This part, I love the most.
At high rev, a really really loud scream, not "harsh" at all. As mentioned above, this part sounds most beautiful if you are a outside of the car as bystander. I would imagine if you want to impress someone, this is how you would do it: A high speed fly-by with him on the sidewalk. I promise you will be picking up your guest's jaw from the ground afterwards.
Of note, I notice the Cargraphic Loud does have a balance pipe (this is the cross pipe that connects the 2 cans, supposedly to reduce resonance). The stock exhaust does have this pipe and previously I thought only AWE among the after-markets also has it.
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Fabspeed tip with beautiful stainless steel finish. Personally I much prefer this very slight yellow-brownish tone to the whitish chrome of stock. For whatever reason I think it looks more like a race car's exhaust, but YMMV. The tip's rolled steel edge makes it look quite "muscular" to my eyes. The fit by the way is perfect according to the installer. There is no excessive protrusion from the bumper at all.
Aug 1, 2008 4:44:30 PM
- cannga
- Expert
-
- Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States
- Posts: 1940, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 6, 2005
- Reply to: Alex_997TT
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
Less lag now?!
There is still a lag in the sense that the car doesn't go into nuclear mode
until 3100 RPM (same as before). That said, the car *does* feel different. It *seems* the Turbo now rev's up at a faster pace so that the transition between no power and all-out power is less dramatic. So in that sense, yes there is less lag, but I am merely speculating here. It will take instrumental measurements to know the real reason. More important is the fact that I don't feel any torque or power loss. This was my biggest concern and part of the reason I picked this system, knowing their racing "pedigree."
But words cannot describe how I love the glorious sound. With Bilstein and Cargraphic, I now humbly declare my baby to be perfect.
Aug 1, 2008 4:48:06 PM
- Alex_997TT
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
- Posts: 3320, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 20, 2005
- Reply to: cannga
Aug 1, 2008 4:55:44 PM
- cannga
- Expert
-
- Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States
- Posts: 1940, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 6, 2005
- Reply to: Alex_997TT
Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust
Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:Quote:
cannga said:
With Bilstein and Cargraphic, I now humbly declare my baby to be perfect.
Your forgot your HRE wheels dude, they are the best bit
...and you will want the BMC air-filter and CG ECU remap at some point I guarantee
Alex,
Alright... alright...I know...
You could be such a B-B-A-A-A-A-D-D "influence"!
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
