Crown

Wonderbar:

 

P.S. I disagree about U.S. buyers not being interested in high end quality.  An inaccurate generalization, at the very least....

 

 It is the truth... Just look at the quality of most cars sold in the US. They simply would not sell in Europe. Or check out the quality of buildings, bathroom equipment etc. The "average" US customer has a different perspective on where it pays off to spend more money than the "average" central European customer. This is not necessarily a disadvantage. Might be even considered an advantage, depending on the perspective 

nberry:

 If Porsche was to reduce prices in Europe would that generate more sales thereby INCREASING profits as a result of additional volume though at a lower profit level?

 That probably would create a bigger problem because it would REDUCE resale value for present owners. 

Hey, don't ask me. I'm an engineer not an economist. 
The Law of Diminishing Returns did not play a primary role in my studies. 

fritz

MKSGR:

Wonderbar:

 

P.S. I disagree about U.S. buyers not being interested in high end quality.  An inaccurate generalization, at the very least....

 

 It is the truth... Just look at the quality of most cars sold in the US. They simply would not sell in Europe. Or check out the quality of buildings, bathroom equipment etc. The "average" US customer has a different perspective on where it pays off to spend more money than the "average" central European customer. This is not necessarily a disadvantage. Might be even considered an advantage, depending on the perspective 

having lived in Germany, the Netherlands and now Canada i second this. 100% accurate, sorry if it offends, but its true. Then again I can go out in Canada and buy stuff for prices that are impossible in Germany. It's a different consumer market is all. I have learned the hard way here to spend the little extra on products, otherwise you end up with stuff that's done within months ALL my electronics/tools are German

It's just a different perspective, both have pros and cons
 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

MKSGR:

Wonderbar:

 

P.S. I disagree about U.S. buyers not being interested in high end quality.  An inaccurate generalization, at the very least....

 

 It is the truth... Just look at the quality of most cars sold in the US. They simply would not sell in Europe. Or check out the quality of buildings, bathroom equipment etc. The US customer has a different perspective on where it pays off to spend more money than the central European customer. This is not necessarily a disadvantage. Might be even considered an advantage, depending on the perspective 

I am inclined to understand what MKSGR means. 

It may be a generalization, and therefore not universally true, but I do think that there is a "generally" a different perception of what constitutes quality between the USA and Europe. 

- Whereas US consumers expect products to be just as reliable in their early life as European customers would, they do not appear to value durability to the same extent.

- Whereas affluent Europeans might generally prefer their real estate to be more neutral on the outside but luxurious inside, American properties tend to "maximize" their external appearance, even if the Spanish-style stucco coats a structure made of wooden studs and drywall instead of masonry and mortar. Witness waterfront properties in Naples or Ft Lauderdale, FL.

Maybe the most controversial point:

- Whereas Europeans might be more inclined to want particular products for the sake of the personal satisfaction they get from owning or using them, many Americans appear to put higher value on the impression those products might make on others. 

As I said, there will be plenty of exceptions to these generalisations in both directions. They are just subjective opinions based on personal observation, and not supported by extensive statistical evidence.

fritz

Let me summarize what I am reading.

Europeans valued the old, the staid and tried and true while Americans value youth, novel and innovation. Europeans avoid transparency while Americans welcome it. Did I get it right?

Anyone know 0-300kph(or 200-300,or 250-300) of these models:

997tt mk1 manual(my actual car)

997tt mk2 manual and/or PDK

997ttS mk2

997 GT3 mk2

Thanks in advance

Ciao

nberry:

Let me summarize what I am reading.

Europeans valued the old, the staid and tried and true while Americans value youth, novel and innovation. Europeans avoid transparency while Americans welcome it. Did I get it right?

I can summarize Fritz's post as "Americans like to show off and don't care much about substance"

I can express no opinion on the statement

gian61:

Anyone know 0-300kph(or 200-300,or 250-300) of these models:

997tt mk1 manual(my actual car)

997tt mk2 manual and/or PDK

997ttS mk2

997 GT3 mk2

Thanks in advance

Ciao

997tt mk1 manual: 40,7 s

997tt mk2 PDK:  41,9 s

997ttS mk2: ~ 37-38 s

997 GT3 mk2: 50,3 s

acrobat:

gian61:

Anyone know 0-300kph(or 200-300,or 250-300) of these models:

997tt mk1 manual(my actual car)

997tt mk2 manual and/or PDK

997ttS mk2

997 GT3 mk2

Thanks in advance

Ciao

997tt mk1 manual: 40,7 s

997tt mk2 PDK:  41,9 s

997ttS mk2: ~ 37-38 s

997 GT3 mk2: 50,3 s

I think that has been asked here before, but how come that the mk2 is slower than the mk1?
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Stefan,

That Scheifermetallic 997.1 Turbo manual was by far the fastest example. That example is one of the first press cars and it styed in Porsche inventory for very long period of time...

According to my  source(P insider) most 997.2 Turbo PDK Coupe examples are 40s(0-300km/h) cars.

Let's agree to disagree, and get back to exchanging views and information about the cars we enjoy...

 KresoF1,

if 997.2 TT PDK is abpout 40s to 300, how much faster 997.2 TTS PDK will be?

KresoF1:

Stefan,

That Scheifermetallic 997.1 Turbo manual was by far the fastest example. That example is one of the first press cars and it styed in Porsche inventory for very long period of time...

According to my  source(P insider) most 997.2 Turbo PDK Coupe examples are 40s(0-300km/h) cars.

Thanks Kreso, that would explain the numbers. For the Turbo S I would assume something like 38 sec then.
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

fritz:

Get your 911 now while stocks last. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Eric, these roads look familiar

Even though we had slightly better weather than Porsche

--

10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

20 GOTO 10

30 RUN

 Temm, your avatar is nearly the first photo 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Once again Porsche trots out their old Turbo S marketing trick..  

 It is really just a attempt to grab  even more money out of  Turbo customers wallets.

By now the "standard" Turbo should have had the hp of the Turbo S etc.. But when you are killing a old horse(997) to birth a new one (998) I guess its best to let it get in a few laps more to charm  the public and find some extra profit. For when the 998 is launched with  its active cupholders and dynamic  floormats the world will swoon endlessly and forget the 997TT's.

Really whats the point of a Turbo  AWD when you can now get a Ferrari for the Snow!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil12-2010feb12,0,2009541.column

JimFlat6:

Once again Porsche trots out their old Turbo S marketing trick..  

 It is really just a attempt to grab  even more money out of  Turbo customers wallets. 

Good to see you Jim .  I think majority of Porsche lovers have caught on to Porsche's trick already.  If you notice more and more of the members are leaning towards either BMW, MB or other brands.

Hopefully the new management will change this trend soon.

 Boredom w/ "new" Porsche models has become, ironically, rather jaded.

Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)

JimFlat6:

Once again Porsche trots out their old Turbo S marketing trick..  

 

 Having mutiple engine variants and " $pecial"  versions of each has been their  business model for the  911 range since it  replaced the 356 line in 1965 - so what else is new ? It'll still be that way in the 2055 model year , when your great-grandchild  will be muttering the same thing . 

MKW:

JimFlat6:

Once again Porsche trots out their old Turbo S marketing trick..  

 

 Having mutiple engine variants and " $pecial"  versions of each has been their  business model for the  911 range since it  replaced the 356 line in 1965 - so what else is new ? It'll still be that way in the 2055 model year , when your great-grandchild  will be muttering the same thing . 

+1

Can't understand the complaining also.

1.
Porsche have to earn money like every enterprise and yes they do it with marketing and in every niche.
If you are the CEO and responsible for the profit you woun't

2.
The Turbo S is a perfect package with an appropriate sticker particularly in the US.
The combination of performance and everyday practicality is unbeatable at this price.
imho

MKW:

JimFlat6:

Once again Porsche trots out their old Turbo S marketing trick..  

 

 Having mutiple engine variants and " $pecial"  versions of each has been their  business model for the  911 range since it  replaced the 356 line in 1965 - so what else is new ? It'll still be that way in the 2055 model year , when your great-grandchild  will be muttering the same thing . 

Let me clarify the variants in your knowledge of all things Porsche.

The 911 Turbo S comes out always when its the last year of the 911 body style. 

 A  S model Turbo is never released simultaneous with a new model standard Turbo.

 I think it is the last year of the 997 body style. The 991 is out next year and RC mentioned the 991 Turbo could be less than 12 months after that so maybe Porsche is rushing because of the competition.

 Porsche will not change their model strategy until buyers walk away from the scam.

Presently, Porsche is strong with the baby generation which in their youth they dreamed of owning a Porsche. Once they  reach true retirement age in the near future, the Porsche "pull" will dissipate.,Porsche ever hopeful of keeping them in the game produced the Cayenne and now Panamera. I am not sure it will work. Porsche 911 may go the way of white belts and white shoes.

Also, our present day generation is not into Porsche's. Porsche really needs to kick it up a notch. I remain hopeful that VW management will modernize the styling.

Nick its not a scam its Porsches well tested sales doctrine.

Much like Obama, people like the company but the cars are doctrinaire and way overpriced.

Jim, glad to hear from you.   Hope nothing serious kept you away. 

NO doubt the company had an excellent reputation. Will it continue with narrow uninspiring products? It may be me but though the 911 is an excellent performer, it fails to generate any excitement. It does not have the attraction of "I must go out a buy one".

When I see one on the road, my reaction is. 

Everything is relative. Porsche is actually quite cheap compared to some other brands for the performance you get. Especially in the US.

I don't understand the complaining about the turbo S model, especially this time when the options are comparable to the increase in price, making the extra 30hp free.

Many of us have complained several items should be standard (sport chrono, LSD...). Well now they are, on the turbo S... 

nberry:

 Porsche will not change their model strategy until buyers walk away from the scam.

Presently, Porsche is strong with the baby generation which in their youth they dreamed of owning a Porsche. Once they  reach true retirement age in the near future, the Porsche "pull" will dissipate.,Porsche ever hopeful of keeping them in the game produced the Cayenne and now Panamera. I am not sure it will work. Porsche 911 may go the way of white belts and white shoes.

Also, our present day generation is not into Porsche's. Porsche really needs to kick it up a notch. I remain hopeful that VW management will modernize the styling.

Nick, I don't agree that this is a scam but I do find your comments very insightful Touché.

It will therefore be very interesting to see the future direction under VAG... starting with the 991

Slow In, Fast Out

nberry:

 Porsche will not change their model strategy until buyers walk away from the scam.

Presently, Porsche is strong with the baby generation which in their youth they dreamed of owning a Porsche. Once they  reach true retirement age in the near future, the Porsche "pull" will dissipate.,Porsche ever hopeful of keeping them in the game produced the Cayenne and now Panamera. I am not sure it will work. Porsche 911 may go the way of white belts and white shoes.

Also, our present day generation is not into Porsche's. Porsche really needs to kick it up a notch. I remain hopeful that VW management will modernize the styling.

 

 

The current 911 is the same since 1998... Time for a change...

Guys-I think scam is a bit harsh-but as a very long term Porsche customer I do empathise with the way Porsche and a few other German marques sell their cars. Base car then a sting for everything else.

I know its profit that keeps any company in business but it does leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I do like the way Lexus put everything into there cars without bleeding the last extra's.

I am hoping that Piech might change the way this works but I am not holding my breath.

i am also sensing a frustration in the forum about the turbo S-it would be a bit frustrating to have just oredered or received the new 997.2 Turbo only to be told that "hold on-here is a better car for you". It isnt a scam-but it isnt a move that engenders loyalty to the brand.

I think Porche etc. have to rethink "loyalty" as they do seem to have moved to a company that sells "units" rather than breeding a customer that starts Porche ownership in his/her early 30's and goes right through the years until the old person has to relinquish their license.

As far as the anti -American atitude coming through in earlier discussions- All I feel is gratitude to the "Yanks" for evrything they have done in keeping the world relatively peaceful since Patten and Montgomery raced the Russians into Berlin.

the only thing i will say is I would prefer to drive german cars before American cars. I think so would most Americans judging by the parlous situation their car industry is in!

Back to the Porches-what a terrific car the 997 series has been!

I have loved Porsche since the early 70's-I just wish they would love me back a bit more!